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Pokemon Fan Presents the Alola Pokémon League

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
There's technically nothing wrong with Ash winning, being the Alola 'champion' seems more equal to the likes of Orange League champion.
Ash isn't beating Elite Four level trainers or a Champion level one for the title. If Ash were to beat somebody like Lance or Cynthia, then yeah... his character needs to retire. That's literally 'game over' as they can't really top those battles with him as the lead.

I just hope the Galar League ends up having Ash win too, so we can finally see what the winner gets to do in an official League. Does Ash get to challenge the Elite Four right away? What happens? So many mysteries that can be explained after 25 years. Ash doesn't even need to win against the first Elite Four member, it'd just be nice to see him officially battle one for a change instead of getting curbstomped
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
I thought that the guys in charge of the anime said that Ash is not winning a league until the series's end.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
Another possibility is that Ash loses in the semifinals to Gladion who then goes on to beat Guzma.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
Ash isn't beating Elite Four level trainers or a Champion level one for the title.
I'm going to disagree there. We have enough evidence now to put Alola on a comparable level to past leagues, and Alola's top talent (Ilima, Guzma, Kukui) to be E4/Champion tier.

In SM139, Kiawe beat a Metagross and arguably a Salamence. Guzma's Scizor defeated a Kommo-o and will have to get through Ilima's Mega Kangaskhan next week. Ash, Mallow, and Gladion have legendary Pokemon. Ilima has a Mega AND Z-Moves.

Alola is the first, and only league ever to have pseudos, Megas, legends and Z-Moves. Kanto/Johto didn't have any of that, and no other league after Sinnoh had legends. After seeing the Battle Royale, which mostly had evolved Pokemon and not jokes or babies, the Top 16 survivors have instant credibility given what they had to go up against and what they're packing.

Not even considering Z-Moves, those feats and power are absolutely on par with prior series. I have a hard time believing Malva's Mega Houndoom could die to Mega Charizard X's Blast Burn, but tank a +2 Inferno Overdrive from a Turtonator who (without boosts) could easily parry a Salamence. Even if it could tank the hit...what would it do to a Pokemon who x4 resists Fire?

At the end of the day, what people seem to care about are superficial awards like badges or titles, which is foolishness. E4/Champions are not strong because of their titles, they get their titles by being strong. Outside of Sinnoh we rarely see them demonstrating that strength by beating powerful opponents. Here we've seen powerful opponents fall, so that's enough to establish strength. That's ultimately all that should really matter.
 

e9310103838

Well-Known Member
For Hau, a better translation would probably be "Riding on His Grandfather's Coattails". I remember reading something about that particular expression once long ago in a translator's notes section of some manga.
It's meaning should be that he is short-listed by strength himself than by riding on someone’s coattails. (七光リとは言わせな い) ;)
 
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mehmeh1

You're so zetta slow
I'm going to disagree there. We have enough evidence now to put Alola on a comparable level to past leagues, and Alola's top talent (Ilima, Guzma, Kukui) to be E4/Champion tier.

In SM139, Kiawe beat a Metagross and arguably a Salamence. Guzma's Scizor defeated a Kommo-o and will have to get through Ilima's Mega Kangaskhan next week. Ash, Mallow, and Gladion have legendary Pokemon. Ilima has a Mega AND Z-Moves.

Alola is the first, and only league ever to have pseudos, Megas, legends and Z-Moves. Kanto/Johto didn't have any of that, and no other league after Sinnoh had legends. After seeing the Battle Royale, which mostly had evolved Pokemon and not jokes or babies, the Top 16 survivors have instant credibility given what they had to go up against and what they're packing.

Not even considering Z-Moves, those feats and power are absolutely on par with prior series. I have a hard time believing Malva's Mega Houndoom could die to Mega Charizard X's Blast Burn, but tank a +2 Inferno Overdrive from a Turtonator who (without boosts) could easily parry a Salamence. Even if it could tank the hit...what would it do to a Pokemon who x4 resists Fire?

At the end of the day, what people seem to care about are superficial awards like badges or titles, which is foolishness. E4/Champions are not strong because of their titles, they get their titles by being strong. Outside of Sinnoh we rarely see them demonstrating that strength by beating powerful opponents. Here we've seen powerful opponents fall, so that's enough to establish strength. That's ultimately all that should really matter.
Turtonator is strong, but not "can fight and survive against primal groudon" strong (until something else comes, I can and will keep citing the SME act 3 fight as the biggest feat of any trainer in the anime),
 

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
Turtonator is strong, but not "can fight and survive against primal groudon" strong (until something else comes, I can and will keep citing the SME act 3 fight as the biggest feat of any trainer in the anime),
It also post against Brocka Mega Steelix. Do you think it's E4 level now?

Still Kiawe gain a lot of my respect this episode.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Another possibility is that Ash loses in the semifinals to Gladion who then goes on to beat Guzma.
not really, considering that Ash vs Guzma was foreshadowed in episode 128, and no matter how you try to argue it they wouldn't foreshadow a league match between Ash vs Guzma if it wasn't going to happen. At this point it makes more sense for the final match to be Ash vs Guzma, because not only are they both connected to Kukui, it would really show how close Guzma came to succeeding in his goal to destroy the league.

Plus at this point nothing Gladion can do could put as much pressure and stress on Ash then Guzma can do to the simple fact that Ash knows Gladion isn't going to destroy the league if he wins, however if Ash vs Guzma is the final match of the league then it would put a lot more pressure and stress on Ash because he knows that if he were to lose against Guzma, it would mean that Guzma would win the league and succeed in his goal.

I know people like to think that oh Ash can't be allowed to win this league, however if you really look at it from narrative reason it makes more sense Ash vs Guzma to be the final match of the league and Ash to win that rather then have the final match just be Ash vs Gladion which has no chance of putting as much pressure and stress on Ash as fighting Guzma would.
 

mehmeh1

You're so zetta slow
It also post against Brocka Mega Steelix. Do you think it's E4 level now?

Still Kiawe gain a lot of my respect this episode.
Again, I'm not saying that Turtonator is weak, but it takes a lot more to be E4 level, E4-tier mons can destroy pikachu and infernape with negligible effort, wreck torterra, or tango with cynthia's garchomp, and that's not even getting into megas
 

Kdude146

Well-Known Member
Given how Plumeria played dirty to benefit Guzma, if Guzma beats Ilima, I don't see him winning the League. Even if the Masked Royal beats him, Guzma will have still accomplished his mission of winning the League so he can destroy it, which would leave a horrible taste in people's mouths.
Even if Guzma does become the champion I don't think he can just destroy the league by saying that's it will never happen again. Each league has a governing body and committee that would not let a champion say no more Pokemon League.
 

Ignition

Keep thriving
You have no way of showing that an E4 is "a lot more" powerful than Turtonator, a Pokemon that

-almost knocked out Mega Steelix, evidenced by Steelix's steam breath and Brock's comments
-defeated an Alolan Sandslash, Magmortar, Electivire, and Metagross with little effort in the same battle with no rest
-tanked a Salamence Flamethrower and hit it hard with Dragon Tail

Note that the Mega Steelix battle happened almost 70 episodes ago, before Turtonator learned Shell Smash and spent all that time training for the Pokemon League. Given what we just saw, it would probably win this time.

By your own admission, Mega Pokemon are powerful. So to say Turtonator isn't E4 level, you have to show

-all Elite Four are equally powerful (not true)
-all Elite Four Pokemon are equally powerful
-all Elite Four are above Mega Pokemon

I didn't even argue that Kiawe was E4 tier, I personally don't think he is, but there's no way to prove it either way. Elite Four is a title given to trainers who are said to be strong. Unless they demonstrate, we have no idea how strong they really are.

We just saw an episode where a Pokemon proved he was strong by beating Pokemon that are consistently portrayed as strong, in unfavourable conditions. Turtonator was ganged up on by Electivire (who previously defeated him) and Magmortar, and he obliterated both at once.

To me, saying E4 are still above seems is putting the title before the feats. I'm going to trust what I see over what I'm told every single time.
Shell Smash was before the Mega Steelix battle as it learned it in the episode he caught Marowak
 

DuquÊ?

Too lazy to pick a pic
Do you really think they'll have a "Bad Guy wins" scenario in Pokémon and have the Alola League be destroyed? Because if Guzma wins, the Alola League will be destroyed. That's Guzma's goal. The match against the Masked Royal is an exhibition match. And even if Guzma loses that, which he would, it would be a case of Kukui winning the battle but losing the war since Guzma would still be Champion and be able to destroy the Alola League. And after that, it would be highly difficult for Kului to simply make another League even should Guzma get arrested, killed, or banished to another dimension. The stigma of having Kukui's League being won by scum like Guzma would stick around for a long time. The only way I can see Guzma beating Ash is if he faces Ash in a round other than the finals. If it's the finals, then Ash will win because if he doesn't, he will be a true failure for not only losing the League, but allowing it to be destroyed and/or discredited by Guzma, which would leave a horrible taste in everyone's mouth.
I thought the original point in the games was that, different of previous villain team leaders, Guzma wasn't a totally irredeemable monster ("monster" being a stretch), since in both SM and USUM, he's willing to deband Team Skull/have them doing something productive with their lives. The only difference here is that Kukui is an important part of his character development, since anime Lusamine have nothing to do with Guzma. It isn't impossible Guzma change his ways during the league because of Ash or Kukui himself, it would be actually a decent way to conclude the things with Team Skull as a whole (rushed and stupid? Maybe, but SM is kinda the "whatever works" saga for me).

At least, in my opinion, it would be better than have Gladion as the champion, but, hey, there's always the chance of this league be Ash's shortest campaign ever if he does lose to Hau in august.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
If all the matches up until Kukui are 1 vs. 1 this league should go by rather quickly. They can just dedicate one episode each for Ash's matches with Gladion and Guzma. With possibly an episode set between Ash's possible victory and the exhibition match with Kukui
 

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
If all the matches up until Kukui are 1 vs. 1 this league should go by rather quickly. They can just dedicate one episode each for Ash's matches with Gladion and Guzma. With possibly an episode set between Ash's possible victory and the exhibition match with Kukui
I really hope it's not the case and each round will be, at least, +1 more pokemon (2vs2 for top 8, 3vs3 for top 4 and 4vs4 for finał). Would prefer some full battles, though...
 
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