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Pokemon Fan Presents the Alola Pokémon League

Ambyssin

Winter can't come soon enough
I have a real hard time thinking they'll all be one-on-one. Because, assuming Ash gets all the way to the finals, if they're still doing 1v1 then that means A) Pikachu will not be used in the Final Tournament at all to give the other members of Ash's team their sendoff moments, or B) one of Ash's members will be sidelined for the league. And, like, it seems like a no-brainer that Ash would use Pikachu against Guzma's Golisopod.

At the very least, a Lycanroc-off is bound to happen between Ash and Gladion. Whether this is when Dusk finally gets the win or is basically this region's Greninja remains to be seen. show pikachu vs. silvally you cowards you won't
 

mehmeh1

Top Manager of the Dragon of Dojima
Kalos is notorious for 'feats' like that, and most websites that routinely talk about power levels like WWW and ComicVine would throw them out. Those battles were aborted, and even before they were aborted they were too vague and contradict later events. Nobody's going to accept interpretation-based evidence when there are much clearer feats in later Mega Evolution Specials and anime episodes.

Here, SM129 gave us solid, unambiguous feats of defeating multiple evolved Pokemon, often in a single hit, without any time for recovery. That is damn impressive, and Pikachu's performance here might be his best to date, save the defeat of Regice and Latios.
SM129's feats are as ambiguous as SME act 3, the pokemon ash and kiawe beat (aside from magmar/electrivire) have absolutely no previous feats whatsoever, so we don't really know how strong they really were. Meanwhile, we saw Kyogre being able to take on M.Metagross' meteor mash without much issues (something tangible), and Groudon was around the same level of power as Kyogre, we then saw Charizard take a surprise Precipice Blades to the gut and not only survive, but not get de-mega'd (like usually happens when a mega gets defeated), though it still took a lot of damage. IDK what there is vague. Then, Malva's M.Houndoom was able to take on that same M.Charizard at full health (although low on stamina) and give it a good fight, I doubt such a pokemon would fall to Turtonator.
You have no way of showing that an E4 is "a lot more" powerful than Turtonator, a Pokemon that

-almost knocked out Mega Steelix, evidenced by Steelix's steam breath and Brock's comments
-defeated an Alolan Sandslash, Magmortar, Electivire, and Metagross with little effort in the same battle with no rest
-tanked a Salamence Flamethrower and hit it hard with Dragon Tail

Note that the Mega Steelix battle happened almost 70 episodes ago, before Turtonator learned Shell Smash and spent all that time training for the Pokemon League. Given what we just saw, it would probably win this time.

By your own admission, Mega Pokemon are powerful. So to say Turtonator isn't E4 level, you have to show

-all Elite Four are equally powerful (not true)
-all Elite Four Pokemon are equally powerful
-all Elite Four are above Mega Pokemon

I didn't even argue that Kiawe was E4 tier, I personally don't think he is, but there's no way to prove it either way. Elite Four is a title given to trainers who are said to be strong. Unless they demonstrate, we have no idea how strong they really are.

We just saw an episode where a Pokemon proved he was strong by beating Pokemon that are consistently portrayed as strong, in unfavourable conditions. Turtonator was ganged up on by Electivire (who previously defeated him) and Magmortar, and he obliterated both at once.

To me, saying E4 are still above seems is putting the title before the feats. I'm going to trust what I see over what I'm told every single time.
-Steelix flat out just stood there (though on guard) against the Z-move, without trying to counter it or do anything else about it, he did a lot of damage, but that was partially because of type advantage, a good feat, but an issue is that steelix has nothing to really compare to (his only other feat was beating other featless mons from TR HQ commanded by jessie and james), and megas can vary in strength heavily, even between gym leaders, as we've seen with Korrina's M.Lucario and Wulfric's M.Abomasnow
-E4 mons and members aren't equally powerful, you're right there, but even then, I really doubt Turtonator would beat a lower tier E4 mon, highly damage, yes, but beat, I doubt it, as E4 members have been portrayed as almost unstoppable forces before XY (and even then the only one capable of beating an E4 mon well was using a horribly OP pokemon)
-Like I said, Megas vary in power, so that statement is already flawed because there's no single "mega" level
-You said that a +2 IO from Turtonator would beat M.Houndoom, which implies that you're putting him in the same level as an E4's mon
-Ok then, go by what you saw, if you've seen E4 members fight, you've seen that some of their pokemon are able to:
Destroy pikachu and infernape with negligible effort, wreck torterra, tango with cynthia's garchomp, and that's not even getting into E4 megas
 

Lucario At Service

Calm Trainer
Well, i would say that the top contender to win Alola League would be either Mina or Acerola.

The reason i pick those two because the others are kind of odd players,
- Guzma has to be defeated by Ash. Also i don't believe that Ash would win (if anyone points to the OP part, then i would point that, in there Pikachu and Incineroar are shown fighting in an empty stadium, which i believe suggests that Ash doesn't get to fight Masked Royal during the exhibition match, but rather later on)
- Gladion and Hau are seen as main rival for Ash (so they are less likely to win, though if i had to pick one, it would be Gladion who could win)
- Mallow and Lana both only have two pokemons (i believe that the final would be a 3 vs 3 battle), so less chance for them.
- Lillie, Kiawe, Sophocles, and Ilima would probably be losing next round.
- Faba would be losing next episode, while Jessie, James and Samson Oak are oddities.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Well, i would say that the top contender to win Alola League would be either Mina or Acerola.

The reason i pick those two because the others are kind of odd players,
- Guzma has to be defeated by Ash. Also i don't believe that Ash would win (if anyone points to the OP part, then i would point that, in there Pikachu and Incineroar are shown fighting in an empty stadium, which i believe suggests that Ash doesn't get to fight Masked Royal during the exhibition match, but rather later on)
- Gladion and Hau are seen as main rival for Ash (so they are less likely to win, though if i had to pick one, it would be Gladion who could win)
- Mallow and Lana both only have two pokemons (i believe that the final would be a 3 vs 3 battle), so less chance for them.
- Lillie, Kiawe, Sophocles, and Ilima would probably be losing next round.
- Faba would be losing next episode, while Jessie, James and Samson Oak are oddities.
And we already know Samson loses.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
There are other characters that Ash can lose to.
Only Hau or Gladion, really. Unless they have Lillie win against Gladion, in which case I will spend next week laughing.
 

mehmeh1

Top Manager of the Dragon of Dojima
That isn't vague, it's a durability feat. I'm not sure what you're arguing anymore. Yes, it is impressive that Mega Charizard X could survive a super effective Precipice Blades, although I'd argue that episode was loose with type advantages because Charizard was still flying and immune to ground attacks for most of the battle. Only when he got close to the ground did the Precipice Blades manage to hit.

BUT, he survived. So it's a feat.
I was arguing against you saying that the episode was vague in terms of feats, which it really isn't

Malva was stupid, I might point out, since by Mega Evolving her Houndoom became vulnerable to two of Charizard's moves, one of which (Blast Burn) it would have otherwise been immune to.

What Malva/Siebold do is establish that Elite Four aren't equal in strength, and if Diantha is stronger than Siebold, she is definitely stronger than Alain and way beyond what Ash-Greninja is capable of. This is reinforced by M17 where she OHKO's Wikstrom's Mega Scizor.
The Malva fight happened WAY after the Siebold fight, and Alain trained hard since then (heck, there was a considerable amount of training even between the primal groudon fight and the Malva fight), so the results from fights that were very far apart doesn't really prove anything (though I do agree with all E4s not being the same). About Malva being dumb, mega evolving provides a huge power boost, without it she'd have gotten wrecked by zard, even with some moves blocked. Also, movies shouldn't really be taken much into account, seeing as how their canon status is kinda dubious (though yeah, champions do tend to be better than E4 by a considerable margin, for obvious reasons).
Regardless, take a step back and look at what you're saying.
A +0 Inferno Overdrive almost beat Mega Steelix.
A +2 Inferno Overdrive made a Metagross disappear.

Blast Burn and Shell Trap are equally powerful moves, and Z-Moves/Mega Evolution are shown to be equally powerful gimmicks. Mega Charizard X and Turtonator even have the same typing. I don't see where Charizard pretty easily beats Houndoom but Houndoom can somehow tank a +2 Inferno Overdrive.
Because that charizard is insanely overpowered, it was able to do some damage to a champion's mega (metagross), defeated 9 megas from trainers most likely scouted by Lysandre before fighting Malva, did ok against Siebold way before beginning to train like crazy, and had already done some damage to Houndoom before delivering the final blow.


I don't see how "megas can vary in strength". Only two normal Pokemon have defeated a Mega without needing a transformation: Pikachu , defeating Mega Lucario after it had been softened up, and Hawlucha defeating Mega Absol. In Alola, the three Megas seen have been hit with Z-Moves. Megas never had their "Pikachu loses to Snivy" moment.
"I don't see how megas can vary in strength" It all depends on the pokemon's base strength, random nurse joy's mega audino=/=diantha's mega gardevoir


Flint's Infernape is arguably a Champion-tier Pokemon, because it actually defeated two of Cynthia's team and lost to Garchomp after those prior battles. With actual feats on his side against a trainer many consider the strongest Champion, we could call Flint the strongest E4 seen in the series, at the very least superior to Malva and Wikstrom who performed poorly when we saw them. Trainer and Pokemon are definitely not the norm, for both Flint and Cynthia.[/QUOTE]
Caitlin's Gothitelle fought Garchomp to a stalemate for 10 minutes, so it's not only infernape who can do that, and while nowhere near as big of a feat, Bertha's Hippowdon wrecked Torterra (who is much more comparable to turtonator than an E4 mon) with one NVE attack the moment she got serious.
 

Ignition

World's biggest Incineroar stan
My predictions:

Ash vs Faba: Ash
Hau vs Oak: Hau
Illima vs Guzma: Guzma
Mallow vs Lana: Lana
Sophocles vs Mina: Mina
Gladion vs Lillie: Gladion
Jessie vs James: James
Kaiwe vs Acerola: Kiawe

Ash vs Hau: Ash
Guzma vs James: Guzma
Kiawe vs Lana: Kiawe
Gladion vs Mina: Gladion

Ash vs Gladion: Ash
Kiawe vs Guzma: Guzma

Ash vs Guzma: Could go either way imo. Leaning towards Ash
 

xinfernapex

Sinnoh Champion
My predictions:

Ash vs Faba: Ash
Hau vs Oak: Hau
Illima vs Guzma: Guzma
Mallow vs Lana: Lana
Sophocles vs Mina: Mina
Gladion vs Lillie: Gladion
Jessie vs James: James
Kaiwe vs Acerola: Kiawe

Ash vs Hau: Ash
Guzma vs James: Guzma
Kiawe vs Lana: Kiawe
Gladion vs Mina: Gladion

Ash vs Gladion: Ash
Kiawe vs Guzma: Guzma

Ash vs Guzma: Could go either way imo. Leaning towards Ash

That’s exactly how I think Top 16 and Top 8 will go. However I feel like Ash vs Gladion would be Top 2 and Ash vs Guzma would be Top 4. I only think this because Ash defeating Gladion has been building up since SM27 and I feel like it will probably be more than a 1v1 whereas Ash vs Guzma I could see being 2v2 max.

On that note what does everyone think Ash vs Gladion will be? 3v3? If so I hope Lycanroc defeats both Lycanroc and Silvally. It’d be cool if they had a 5v5 but I doubt it
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
The finalized Top 16 took me by surprise since I wasn't expecting to see Acerola make it past the Battle Royal. The fact that all of Satoshi's classmates made it through rankles me a bit however, because some of the Pokemon that they faced in the Battle Royal seemed stronger than theirs, which made their progress into the next round seem somewhat contrived.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
If Ash did lose, I'd rather it be to Acerola. Not Mina
The treatment the Alola E4 received is just absurd. Molayne, minor role in one episode. Kahili, one-off episode and not even shown being eliminated in the Battle Royale(Seriously, why couldn't they show Ash/Gladion/Kiawe eliminating her?). Acerola, never battled until now and only appeared once after the Ula'Ula arc. Olivia and Hala are really the only ones to have great treatment, but they're still Kahunas.
Truthfully, Mina shouldn't have been included at all. Replace her with Ryuki, let Kiawe have a rematch and have Soph lose to Acerola.

What I'd prefer-
Ash vs Faba: Ash
Hau vs Oak: Hau
Mallow vs Lana: Mallow
Gladion vs Lillie: Gladion duh
Jessie vs James: James
Soph vs Mina: Soph
Kiawe vs Acerola: Kiawe

Ash vs Hau: Ash
Guzma vs Gladion: Guzma
Mallow vs James: James
Kiawe vs Soph: Kiawe

Ash vs Kiawe: Ash
James vs Guzma: Guzma
followed by Ash vs Guzma: Guzma
OR
Ash vs Guzma: Ash
Kiawe vs James: Kiawe
Ash vs Kiawe: Kiawe

That whole 'battling Ash changed this person' cliche is obviously going to happen with Guzma, Guzma winning can still work
I personally don't give a damn about Ash vs Gladion, the stakes aren't really there... Gladion getting fed to Guzma actually would make him look more deadly, unlike feeding Bianca and Tierno/Trevor of all characters.... Gladion's powerful unlike them!
I want Kiawe to receive the respect he deserves, tired of him being hyped up as this big battler since the start when he's not won a single big battle... it's the opposite of funny.
Being the champion is literally 'the fire of Alola'
 

Master Pikachu 11

Well-Known Member
My predictions for the top 8 are Ash, Hau, Guzma, Gladion, Sophocles, Kiawe, and I will go with the underdogs of Mallow, and James. I think Mallow will win because she is by far considered the underdog in this fight as many don’t expect her to win and we didn’t see Shaymin battle at all so I think she could end up beating Lana. James is another underdog that most see losing to Jessie, but I think he will win because he is determined to take on Royal Mask and has more motivation to do that then Jessie who could care less about Royal Mask. I think Mearnie will evolve and give James the victory. The top 8 battles that I believe will go Ash vs Hau, Guzma vs James, Kiawe vs Sophocles (which would be similar to Mallow and Lana and be a battle between another two close friends), Gladion vs Mallow.
 

Decidueye23

Well-Known Member
If Ash did lose, I'd rather it be to Acerola. Not Mina
The treatment the Alola E4 received is just absurd. Molayne, minor role in one episode. Kahili, one-off episode and not even shown being eliminated in the Battle Royale(Seriously, why couldn't they show Ash/Gladion/Kiawe eliminating her?). Acerola, never battled until now and only appeared once after the Ula'Ula arc. Olivia and Hala are really the only ones to have great treatment, but they're still Kahunas.
Truthfully, Mina shouldn't have been included at all. Replace her with Ryuki, let Kiawe have a rematch and have Soph lose to Acerola.

What I'd prefer-
Ash vs Faba: Ash
Hau vs Oak: Hau
Mallow vs Lana: Mallow
Gladion vs Lillie: Gladion duh
Jessie vs James: James
Soph vs Mina: Soph
Kiawe vs Acerola: Kiawe

Ash vs Hau: Ash
Guzma vs Gladion: Guzma
Mallow vs James: James
Kiawe vs Soph: Kiawe

Ash vs Kiawe: Ash
James vs Guzma: Guzma
followed by Ash vs Guzma: Guzma
OR
Ash vs Guzma: Ash
Kiawe vs James: Kiawe
Ash vs Kiawe: Kiawe

That whole 'battling Ash changed this person' cliche is obviously going to happen with Guzma, Guzma winning can still work
I personally don't give a damn about Ash vs Gladion, the stakes aren't really there... Gladion getting fed to Guzma actually would make him look more deadly, unlike feeding Bianca and Tierno/Trevor of all characters.... Gladion's powerful unlike them!
I want Kiawe to receive the respect he deserves, tired of him being hyped up as this big battler since the start when he's not won a single big battle... it's the opposite of funny.
Being the champion is literally 'the fire of Alola'
The last episode pretty much set up ash vs gladion in the way they showed ash and gladion. Kiawe will probably be fed to guzma
 

aguilas_hhh

A critical hit!
Top 8:
Ash Vs Faba: Ash
Illima Vs Guzma: Guzma
Hau Vs Oak: Hau
Mallow Vs Lana: Lana
Sophocles Vs Mina: Mina
Jessie Vs James: Jessie
Kiawe Vs Acerola: Kiawe
Lillie Vs Gladion: Gladion

Top 4:
Ash Vs Hau: Ash
Guzma Vs Kiawe: Guzma
Gladion Vs Lana: Gladion
Jessie Vs Mina: Jessie

Top 2:
Ash Vs Gladion: Ash
Jessie Vs Guzma: Guzma

Final
Ash Vs Guzma: Ash

Real Final:
Ash Vs Royal Mask: Royal Mask
 

Mr. Reloaded

All encompassing
Top 8:
Ash Vs Faba: Ash
Illima Vs Guzma: Guzma
Hau Vs Oak: Hau
Mallow Vs Lana: Lana
Sophocles Vs Mina: Mina
Jessie Vs James: Jessie
Kiawe Vs Acerola: Kiawe
Lillie Vs Gladion: Gladion

Top 4:
Ash Vs Hau: Ash
Guzma Vs Kiawe: Guzma
Gladion Vs Lana: Gladion
Jessie Vs Mina: Jessie

Top 2:
Ash Vs Gladion: Ash
Jessie Vs Guzma: Guzma

Final
Ash Vs Guzma: Ash

Real Final:
Ash Vs Royal Mask: Royal Mask

You mistook top 16 for top 8. So you're missing a round.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Top 8:
Ash Vs Faba: Ash
Illima Vs Guzma: Guzma
Hau Vs Oak: Hau
Mallow Vs Lana: Lana
Sophocles Vs Mina: Mina
Jessie Vs James: Jessie
Kiawe Vs Acerola: Kiawe
Lillie Vs Gladion: Gladion

Top 4:
Ash Vs Hau: Ash
Guzma Vs Kiawe: Guzma
Gladion Vs Lana: Gladion
Jessie Vs Mina: Jessie

Top 2:
Ash Vs Gladion: Ash
Jessie Vs Guzma: Guzma

Final
Ash Vs Guzma: Ash

Real Final:
Ash Vs Royal Mask: Royal Mask
I swear I'd be amazed if Jessie or James made it into the top 4.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen

Leonhart

Imagineer
Musashi possibly making it to the semi-finals would really surprise me. I can suspend my disbelief to some extent when it comes to most battles, but someone like Musashi who isn't exactly known for being a great battler surpassing almost every other major character in this saga at the League just wouldn't feel justified from my perspective.
 
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