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Pokemon Fan Presents the Alola Pokémon League

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
It's win-win. They got around the poor tactics and inexperience issue with pure power.

Remember, Vikavolt in the anime is fast, meaning its biggest weakness in the games is a non-issue. We actually know Sophocles' Vikavolt has a SpA+ Nature, and it'll get Bugium Z + Bug Buzz. That's an undeniable threat even if all he does is spam Discharge, Bug Buzz and Dodge.

Lana...even if she doesn't get the Kyogre (or if it's allowed), Primarina + Oceanic Opera is more powerful than any of Ash's Pokemon except Pikachu. And Mallow/Lillie have mythicals to overpower their opponents as well.

I wasn't a fan of giving the cast legends or last-minute upgrades, but it's a much neater way of making the characters convincingly dangerous than plot armour and arsepulls.

It just feels cheap in terms of not really amounting to the actual trainer's SKILL as a battler however. I was REALLY hoping that SM would continue with the non-battler approach in terms of developing their more practical abilities, and showing how they could still be clever with weak resources. This would give balance against a strong character like Ash who is seldom good at any of the more practical non-battle activities. Then, THEN they could maybe give them some power boosts when they had proved they had the intellect to put it to good use.

However besides a few very early episodes and displays, they never really developed on that. Most of the time they just ended up spammers or plot armoured whenever they needed to battle, the anime once again wanting to have its cake and eat it too because writing even small bits of strategy and agency into non-main battles is too hawd compared to the same freaking spam curbstomp each and every time. And I can almost certainly bet they'll abruptly make all of the other students conveniently practical for this ONE event, like with Serena, they couldn't really be bothered at all in terms of long term development but they likely can muster something epic for this one final display.

It just really gives off the almost spirit crushing opposite message from the above idea; that you can give a monkey a Z-Ring and they could pull off a competent battle. I get battling is sort of that thing everyone is made to get good at throughout the show, but SM seemed like it wanted to diverge from that with it's 'fish out of water' premise and defining niches that not everyone was good at without the right experience. At the end of the day, all of them have still done ZERO official battles, they have ZERO experience, and don't pretend that "oh, well they did it all offscreen" excuse isn't lazy bull. This conditional approach I think risks really undermining poor Ash, whose been made to suck miserably at everything the other twerps are good at to make them look remarkable, but they won't be made to show a weakness or forced improvisation in what HE'S worked the whole show to be experienced at, in fact they'll reach his level with NONE of the effort he put in, which just makes him look even worse. Even just having a few moments Ash got to mentor some of them with some battling, but nope they haven't remotely bothered in terms of skills and balance. They're just gonna go into this with POWER POWER POWER, which apparently makes an automatically good battler, but only if you didn't TRAIN to be a good battler this series. :p

It's like having an episode where Ash is just randomly a better cook than Mallow because he collected enough ingredients or Kiawe can invent better things than Sophocles because he has enough tools, with the half baked excuse that they learned how to offscreen at best.
 
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Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
It just really gives off the almost spirit crushing opposite message from the above idea; that you can give a monkey a Z-Ring and they could pull off a competent battle. I get battling is sort of that thing everyone is made to get good at throughout the show, but SM seemed like it wanted to diverge from that with it's 'fish out of water' premise and defining niches that not everyone was good at without the right experience. At the end of the day, all of them have still done ZERO official battles, they have ZERO experience, and don't pretend that "oh, well they did it all offscreen" excuse isn't lazy bull. This conditional approach I think risks really undermining poor Ash, whose been made to suck miserably at everything the other twerps are good at to make them look remarkable, but they won't be made to show a weakness or forced improvisation in what HE'S worked the whole show to be experienced at, in fact they'll reach his level with NONE of the effort he put in, which just makes him look even worse. Even just having a few moments Ash got to mentor some of them with some battling, but nope they haven't remotely bothered in terms of skills and balance. They're just gonna go into this with POWER POWER POWER, which apparently makes an automatically good battler, but only if you didn't TRAIN to be a good battler this series. :p

The time that would otherwise have been spent showing battle skill was devoted toward developing the cast and giving the viewers more time to appreciate them. I am more emotionally invested in this league than any other aside from OS, Sinnoh because I like all the characters and want them to be happy.

I couldn't say the same about BW or XY. The only non-Ash characters I cared about were Stephen and Sawyer, BECAUSE of their unique charm, growth and familiarity. No surprise that those were the two best battles of BW and XY's leagues. The league losses stung because literally-who's stood in the way of a character I liked winning.

SM's strengths are its characters and storytelling, so if you liked both this should be an amazing league. If you liked Ash challenging legendaries (maybe Megas) he'll be doing that here, too. He even has his own legendary Pokemon this time, along with the region's gimmick superpower.

It's an exciting time to be watching, it's a waste to brood over Kalos salt.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong, I like that aspect TREMENDOUSLY as well, but I really feel if that was the case they should stick to that approach.

They shouldn't have tried to have their cake and eat it too, wanting characterisation to be the main focus but still trying to force in cheap 'badassery' for everyone in the main goal arc at the last second, especially since making them amazing battlers through no earning of it is completely counter productive to them being character driven, they are suddenly altered to be competent in one area they had zero focus in 'because the plot needs it' or alternatively just given enough power that they're practically spectators. We don't get a vibrant amount of character agency from the non-battlers doing battles.

If they wanted everyone in the league they should sacrificed at least a handful of the worst fillers to build up to it, or at the very least make their token TR curbstomps more even handed and force a proper display out of them, at least more than 'Wellll, they plot armoured a couple moves and beat up Meowth a couple times, close enough'. They shouldn't have placed it at the end of a series where they didn't bother AT ALL with battling experience as the primary focus, they should have something relevant to more satisfyingly culminate their actual character focus.

And I dunno I just REALLY don't like the whole 'Ash works his butt off just to not lose miserably but everyone's a pro with no training or struggles at all' look of this, especially since again, Ash spent the whole series failing at everything they supplied well in. There's no need to completely show up the guy in what gives HIM his character agency just to shoehorn in some cheap badass quota to the others. If anything it makes me struggle to root for the others, they lose their fallibility and become the 'always someone better' guys while Ash becomes the 'loser' of the group, instead of underdog-ish equals with all differing niches and weaknesses.
 
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TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Don't get me wrong, I like that aspect TREMENDOUSLY as well, but I really feel if that was the case they should stick to that approach.

They shouldn't have tried to have their cake and eat it too, wanting characterisation to be the main focus but still trying to force in cheap 'badassery' for everyone in the main goal arc at the last second, especially since making them amazing battlers through no earning of it is completely counter productive to them being character driven, they are suddenly altered to be competent in one area they had zero focus in 'because the plot needs it' or alternatively just given enough power that they're practically spectators. We don't get a vibrant amount of character agency from the non-battlers doing battles.

If they wanted everyone in the league they should sacrificed at least a handful of the worst fillers to build up to it, or at the very least make their token TR curbstomps more even handed and force a proper display out of them, at least more than 'Wellll, they plot armoured a couple moves and beat up Meowth a couple times, close enough'. They shouldn't have placed it at the end of a series where they didn't bother AT ALL with battling experience as the primary focus, they should have something relevant to more satisfyingly culminate their actual character focus.

And I dunno I just REALLY don't like the whole 'Ash works his butt off just to not lose miserably but everyone's a pro with no training or struggles at all' look of this, especially since again, Ash spent the whole series failing at everything they supplied well in. There's no need to completely show up the guy in what gives HIM his character agency just to shoehorn in some cheap badass quota to the others. If anything it makes me struggle to root for the others, they lose their fallibility and become the 'always someone better' guys while Ash becomes the 'loser' of the group, instead of underdog-ish equals with all differing niches and weaknesses.
You never know. Perhaps they'll all get like one defeat through use of their Z-moves but then have Ash easily win the rest of the battles. They could also do that round Robin thing that Johto did that had a point system and everything for the preliminary rounds.
 

Kintaro

Banned
The problem is this is the first league Ash's companions are competing in a league with him, but besides maybe Kiawe, it feels underwhelming because there's no build-up to it.

Remember back in the day people wanted to see Misty/Brock in a league with Ash? Or Iris during BW? They could have done this with previous characters but they never did (yes the rules could have been altered to allow Gym leaders to compete, etc), but now we have Ash battling female companions in the league for the first time...if he does even battle them...and there's just no hype.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
The problem is this is the first league Ash's companions are competing in a league with him, but besides maybe Kiawe, it feels underwhelming because there's no build-up to it.

Remember back in the day people wanted to see Misty/Brock in a league with Ash? Or Iris during BW? They could have done this with previous characters but they never did (yes the rules could have been altered to allow Gym leaders to compete, etc), but now we have Ash battling female companions in the league for the first time...if he does even battle them...and there's just no hype.
At least now they have no excuse not to include companions in future leagues. I'm hoping that this league will start something for future series to have the companions compete in the league and to finally have a female companion with a true battling goal.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
At least now they have no excuse not to include companions in future leagues. I'm hoping that this league will start something for future series to have the companions compete in the league and to finally have a female companion with a true battling goal.

Well there is kind of the excuse that the Alola league is a primordial case without fully established rules like the other regions, so of course the other companions couldn't compete in the previous ones.

That said I wouldn't mind if they let one companion into the league each series though, preferably the one who doesn't have their own goal or main story arc so they have some sort of balance. If only Kiawe had got into the league with Ash, that would have been a pretty sweet deal, especially due to giving the male companion some sort of ongoing focus to balance Lillie's main story arc. Brock and Clemont getting into the league while the girls performed could have also balanced things out in their series, especially since they were established as powerful battlers.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Ilima could end up winning now that I think about it, his whole shtick is to be a mr perfect, his eevee is ambigously powerful, he's a wildcard, and he's the only one besides ash to have league experience
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
At least now they have no excuse not to include companions in future leagues. I'm hoping that this league will start something for future series to have the companions compete in the league and to finally have a female companion with a true battling goal.
Not really, the classmates are competing just because they don't need to do anything to enter.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
You mean Unova
They should've just gone with a draw in Unova, rather than last-minute evolution-induced victory at a handicap of 5v6, especially given how quickly Swanna and Ferrothorn went down (if I'm remembering correctly).
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
there's 1 thing I do wonder about
1: who will be the last one to fight silvally? There are 3 possibilities:
1-Lycanroc: Obviously, he's the ace, the one who has fought Type:Null before, and the underpinning of the ash-gladion rivalry, but then again he'll fight MN.Lycanroc (who I feel may pull an Electrivire here and become the ace of the fight in Gladion's part)
2-Poipole/Naganadel: UB vs UB killer, too great of an opportunity to pass up, but we don't know if he's even coming back
3-Pikachu: He's been hogging everything, plus 10mv was explicitly stated by Gladion to be his main inspiration for his training throughout the latter 2/3s of SM
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Every thread gets into a debate on the credentials of the League lol. What else can you say that hasn’t been said?
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
The one thing I can say for certain is that this League has a 100% chance 0f being more satisfying than the DP League.

Like anybody is going to fall for this, troll..
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Like anybody is going to fall for this, troll..
I'm not being a troll. Any League will be better than DP in my book, simply by lacking the absolute worst character in the series., and not glorifying him. I'm talking about the DP rival, not Tobias.
 

Kintaro

Banned
I'm not being a troll. Any League will be better than DP in my book, simply by lacking the absolute worst character in the series., and not glorifying him. I'm talking about the DP rival, not Tobias.

I don't know why your hatred of Paul makes you think the saga/league is bad. Even the people who hate Paul know they hate him because he's such a satisfying character, same reason people hate evil/villain characters in other series. It's the "villains you love to hate" mantra.
 
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