• Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Pokemon Scarlet & Pokemon Violet - General Discussion/Speculation Thread

Smeargle-Sketch

Sketcher of Smeargles
Pokemon Twitter confirmed that Ed Sheeran's Celestial, the song collaboration they did will be featured in Scarlet and Violet.

Probably credits song is my take,
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder

Convergent as in two separate Pokemon have taken on the physical traits that is "Iglett" through their own evolution.

Golden Mole and Marsupial Mole. Almost identical, completely not related to each other.

I see. I feel like that might be a misnomer in Pokemon's case, because evolution means something different in Pokemon. Pokemon evolution is more like metamorphosis, and as far as we know Wiglett does not evolve into any evolutionary relative of Diglett (and it probably won't period). Convergent evolution for Pokemon would probably be more along the lines of if Diglett and Wiglett both evolved into Dugtrio. I think this phenomenon needs a different name (I can't think of one ATM though). They may have wrote themselves into a corner by calling metamorphosis "evolution" and later adapting characteristics of IRL evolution like regional variants and now convergent evolution, it breeds a lot of confusion.
 

Smeargle-Sketch

Sketcher of Smeargles
I see. I feel like that might be a misnomer in Pokemon's case, because evolution means something different in Pokemon. Pokemon evolution is more like metamorphosis, and as far as we know Wiglett does not evolve into any evolutionary relative of Diglett (and it probably won't period). Convergent evolution for Pokemon would probably be more along the lines of if Diglett and Wiglett both evolved into Dugtrio. I think this phenomenon needs a different name (I can't think of one ATM though). They may have wrote themselves into a corner by calling metamorphosis "evolution" and later adapting characteristics of IRL evolution like regional variants and now convergent evolution, it breeds a lot of confusion.
Funnily enough.

The process of Evolution of Pokemon and biological evolution are both stated as being canon in Pokemon.

Specifically, Pokedex entries officially state that Skorupi, Venipede and Sizzlepede are all relatives.
 

Marzbar

Well-Known Member
Rattled is an annoying ability. They never give it to good Pokémon for starters, and they never give it to Pokémon that are weak to Ghost, Dark and Bug attacks. So you can’t be cute and give a Rattled Pokémon a weakness policy and deliberately trigger Rattled as a viable battle strategy.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Rattled is an annoying ability. They never give it to good Pokémon for starters, and they never give it to Pokémon that are weak to Ghost, Dark and Bug attacks. So you can’t be cute and give a Rattled Pokémon a weakness policy and deliberately trigger Rattled as a viable battle strategy.
That was until now, so now thanks to being able to change a Pokémon’s type via Terastalizing it, it means you can have your Pokémon with the Rattled ability hold a weakness policy and Terastalize it to change its type to something that weak to Ghost, Dark, and/or Bug type attacks.

Although it isn’t completely true that they don’t give it to Pokémon that are weak to Ghost, Dark, and/or Bug type attacks as Basculegion, and Alolan Persian can have that ability.

Honestly Terastalizing a Pokémon with the Rattled ability to Psychic type while holding a weakeness policy could probably work out well.

Not sure how good Alolan Persian, I’d but you could probably maybe use Sudowoodo or Granbull.
 

Marzbar

Well-Known Member
That was until now, so now thanks to being able to change a Pokémon’s type via Terastalizing it, it means you can have your Pokémon with the Rattled ability hold a weakness policy and Terastalize it to change its type to something that weak to Ghost, Dark, and/or Bug type attacks.

Although it isn’t completely true that they don’t give it to Pokémon that are weak to Ghost, Dark, and/or Bug type attacks as Basculegion, and Alolan Persian can have that ability.

Honestly Terastalizing a Pokémon with the Rattled ability to Psychic type while holding a weakeness policy could probably work out well.

Not sure how good Alolan Persian, I’d but you could probably maybe use Sudowoodo or Granbull.
True. Though who knows if we’ll get Basculegion, Persian at +2 is still bad, and Sudowoodo is too slow. Granbull may work if we get it. Wugtrio too if it’s not too frail
 

keithpetrosky

Well-Known Member
1200px-Wiglett.png
gorgonsia-drawing588.jpg
I don’t like the lore of Wiglett.

For one, it’s called a garden eel Pokémon but it looks more like a sandworm or tube worm Pokémon. Garden eels have gills, tiny side fins, and a long back fin and tail and teeth in a jaw. I’ve yet to see any of those on Wiglett. I think they made a big mistake with its description.

Idk why they make it look like diglett if it’s not related that just seems dumb. Make it look like an eel.

Lastly, I hope to god it’s evolution won’t be Wigtrio, a tangled up 3 headed worm. ‍

If they want to go convergent species, make coral snake/Scarlett king snake Pokémon two different species with same trait

Fan art, but much more accurate to garden eels.
_122_nageel_v2_by_smiley_fakemon_db0fqk3-pre.png
 
Last edited:

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
We all know what convergent evolution is.
I just think we don't need that when we already have regional forms. We don't need a second group of Pokemon that's just slight redesigns of already existing Pokemon.
Agree
Looks like they r really desperate to fill Pokédex slots without coming up with new designs..
 

keithpetrosky

Well-Known Member
Everyone’s talking about Convergent evolution and using moles and sharks as examples. Did you all forget about one of the best examples, Scarlet King Snakes and Coral Snakes. Both separate species living in different areas. Both have similar warning coloring (black, red, yellow), but only one is venomous, the other is harmless and an imposter to prevent predation. I wish these guys were made into Pokémon!
I found a great link on convergent species https://ballpythonbreeder.co.uk/2021/04/20/convergent-evolution-in-snakes-and-lizards/

Lampropeltis-triangulum-10.00-1-copy.jpg


0517-coral-snake_phgioq.jpg
 

Trillion

Well-Known Member
if there are more pokemon like wiglett and this becomes an official category of pokemon, i wonder if they'll put the pikaclones in the same category. their concept seems similar
 

lolipiece

My true form
Staff member
Moderator
No they wouldn't. Diglett is a mole and Wiglett is an eel. The Pikaclones are (mostly) rodents, so they'd be divergent instead of convergent.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
No they wouldn't. Diglett is a mole and Wiglett is an eel. The Pikaclones are (mostly) rodents, so they'd be divergent instead of convergent.
And Mimikyu isn’t even a rodent itself. No one know what it really is underneath that cloth disguise.
 

LordSerperior

Well-Known Member
Its sort of frustrating to read through the misinformation surrounding convergent and divergent evolution and even evolution in general within the Pokemon fandom lately. People are using Pokemon as model to explain the real world concept, which in this particular case makes for a poor model as it does not have the context or complexity. Identifying convergent or divergent evolution requires an understanding of taxonomy and the evolutionary relationship between species.

The taxonomy of Pokemon is not defined and using their real world equivalents to deduce it is flimsy. The only major ways Pokemon are grouped are types and egg groups. I would assume egg groups would be a more useful group for deducing evolutionary relationships since they're relevant to reproduction. Crobat is exclusively in the flying egg group with the birds, implying it is evolutionarily closer to the bird pokemon than it is to non-flying mammal Pokemon.

We can't say without any amount of certainty if pikaclones are divergent or convergent because we don't know their evolutionary history. The assumption (based on real world) is that since they are based on rodents they all diverged from a common ancestor but as with the Crobat example, this may not hold true for Pokemon. And even with real world logic, Togedemaru being a hedgehog would be more distantly related to the pikaclones than rodent Pokemon like Rattata, Bidoof or Patrat, and hence could possibly be a case of convergent evolution. We literally don't know enough about Pokemon ecology to say one way or the other.

Also convergent evolution is a response to evolutionary pressure and filling similar ecological niches. Species don't always need to look similar for it to be convergent evolution, it can be behaviours, or similarity in only certain parts of the body or even interactions without any physical similarity. We don't know why Diglett evolved to look the way it does or what evolutionary benefit it gets from having that body plan so it's a bit random to call Wiglett a result of convergent evolution.

The snakes posted above are not an example of convergent evolution, that is Batesian mimicry. One snake disguises itself as the other to avoid predators. By extension, Mimikyu is also explicitly an example of mimicry not convergent evolution.
 

Autobot N

Tinkaton is the greatest Pokemon ever
I think what people are thinking of here is carcinisation, where several crustaceans evolved crab-like forms independently of each other, which is indeed an example of convergent evolution. In the same way, these two Pokemon evolved independently of each other, but still share similar appearances
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Everyone’s talking about Convergent evolution and using moles and sharks as examples. Did you all forget about one of the best examples, Scarlet King Snakes and Coral Snakes. Both separate species living in different areas. Both have similar warning coloring (black, red, yellow), but only one is venomous, the other is harmless and an imposter to prevent predation. I wish these guys were made into Pokémon!
I found a great link on convergent species https://ballpythonbreeder.co.uk/2021/04/20/convergent-evolution-in-snakes-and-lizards/

Lampropeltis-triangulum-10.00-1-copy.jpg


0517-coral-snake_phgioq.jpg
Omg scary
=[
 
Top