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Pokemon Scarlet & Pokemon Violet - General Discussion/Speculation Thread

lolipiece

Peanutcase
Staff member
Moderator
No they wouldn't. Diglett is a mole and Wiglett is an eel. The Pikaclones are (mostly) rodents, so they'd be divergent instead of convergent.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
No they wouldn't. Diglett is a mole and Wiglett is an eel. The Pikaclones are (mostly) rodents, so they'd be divergent instead of convergent.
And Mimikyu isn’t even a rodent itself. No one know what it really is underneath that cloth disguise.
 

LordSerperior

Well-Known Member
Its sort of frustrating to read through the misinformation surrounding convergent and divergent evolution and even evolution in general within the Pokemon fandom lately. People are using Pokemon as model to explain the real world concept, which in this particular case makes for a poor model as it does not have the context or complexity. Identifying convergent or divergent evolution requires an understanding of taxonomy and the evolutionary relationship between species.

The taxonomy of Pokemon is not defined and using their real world equivalents to deduce it is flimsy. The only major ways Pokemon are grouped are types and egg groups. I would assume egg groups would be a more useful group for deducing evolutionary relationships since they're relevant to reproduction. Crobat is exclusively in the flying egg group with the birds, implying it is evolutionarily closer to the bird pokemon than it is to non-flying mammal Pokemon.

We can't say without any amount of certainty if pikaclones are divergent or convergent because we don't know their evolutionary history. The assumption (based on real world) is that since they are based on rodents they all diverged from a common ancestor but as with the Crobat example, this may not hold true for Pokemon. And even with real world logic, Togedemaru being a hedgehog would be more distantly related to the pikaclones than rodent Pokemon like Rattata, Bidoof or Patrat, and hence could possibly be a case of convergent evolution. We literally don't know enough about Pokemon ecology to say one way or the other.

Also convergent evolution is a response to evolutionary pressure and filling similar ecological niches. Species don't always need to look similar for it to be convergent evolution, it can be behaviours, or similarity in only certain parts of the body or even interactions without any physical similarity. We don't know why Diglett evolved to look the way it does or what evolutionary benefit it gets from having that body plan so it's a bit random to call Wiglett a result of convergent evolution.

The snakes posted above are not an example of convergent evolution, that is Batesian mimicry. One snake disguises itself as the other to avoid predators. By extension, Mimikyu is also explicitly an example of mimicry not convergent evolution.
 

Autobot N

Miraidon, transform and roll out!
I think what people are thinking of here is carcinisation, where several crustaceans evolved crab-like forms independently of each other, which is indeed an example of convergent evolution. In the same way, these two Pokemon evolved independently of each other, but still share similar appearances
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Everyone’s talking about Convergent evolution and using moles and sharks as examples. Did you all forget about one of the best examples, Scarlet King Snakes and Coral Snakes. Both separate species living in different areas. Both have similar warning coloring (black, red, yellow), but only one is venomous, the other is harmless and an imposter to prevent predation. I wish these guys were made into Pokémon!
I found a great link on convergent species https://ballpythonbreeder.co.uk/2021/04/20/convergent-evolution-in-snakes-and-lizards/

Lampropeltis-triangulum-10.00-1-copy.jpg


0517-coral-snake_phgioq.jpg
Omg scary
=[
 

Sponge

Well-Known Member
if there are more pokemon like wiglett and this becomes an official category of pokemon, i wonder if they'll put the pikaclones in the same category. their concept seems similar

I feel like they wouldn't since pikaclones are a bit more different from each other. I know they all have the cheek pouches but they still have different body shapes and faces. (even if they're very similar) Not to mention they're often different species. (squirrel vs mouse for example)

It's more likely that they're never going to be officially categorized though.
 

lolipiece

Peanutcase
Staff member
Moderator
Pachirisu is related to Pikachu according to Legends, so species clearly doesn't matter all that much.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Pachirisu is related to Pikachu according to Legends, so species clearly doesn't matter all that much.
Yes but that is a different situation then the situation Wiglett is in.


At the end of the day Pachirisu is based off a Squirrel while Pikachu is based off a Mouse which are both considered rodents, so them being related to each other in some way isn’t really that much of a stretch.

The same isn’t true when it comes to Diglett and Wiglett as Diglett is based off of a mole and Wiglett is based off of an Eel which are two completely different animals that have nothing that do with each.


So just because a Mouse and Squirrel happened to be related to each other doesn’t automatically mean that that a mole and an eel are related to each other.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
Awesome, more news tomorrow. I hope they show us the new bonding mechanic, it's always been a highlight. Oh and Tauros, we haven't seen them yet. And maybe something about classes, we don't know a thing about them other than the fact that they exist. I just wanna know how it works.
 

Reinhardt

Well-Known Member
Nice that we're getting another new trailer, though I'm not expecting a huge amount from it, I'm guessing maybe two new Pokemon at most, one or two new characters and perhaps a look at the game's version of Pokemon Amie/Refresh/Camping. I still don't think we're seeing the Starter evolutions until after the games are out, but it would be a pleasant surprise to at least see the middle stages.
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
Nice that we're getting another new trailer, though I'm not expecting a huge amount from it, I'm guessing maybe two new Pokemon at most, one or two new characters and perhaps a look at the game's version of Pokemon Amie/Refresh/Camping. I still don't think we're seeing the Starter evolutions until after the games are out, but it would be a pleasant surprise to at least see the middle stages.
Any evolved form of a Pokemon we've seen before would do nicely. Maybe even a new Paldean form.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Nice that we're getting another new trailer, though I'm not expecting a huge amount from it, I'm guessing maybe two new Pokemon at most, one or two new characters and perhaps a look at the game's version of Pokemon Amie/Refresh/Camping. I still don't think we're seeing the Starter evolutions until after the games are out, but it would be a pleasant surprise to at least see the middle stages.
It’s been awhile since the starter evolutions have been kept a secret from us until the game is finally released, hasn’t it? I think the last time that had happened was with XY.
 
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