Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon Story Discussion

[High Priest Reuniclus]

I'm not really sure what to think about the story in this game. Much like my opinions on it, it's a bit all over the place.

Spoiler

Good:
Everything between Revelation Mountain and Prehistoric Cave. It's probably the best stretch of story that PMD has ever had. The lingering sense of doom from Dark Matter's ambitions and the fact that between Nuzleaf backstabbing you, the void shadows imitating characters you know and the fake-out backstabs, it gives a real sense of paranoia. Taken any further, and we'd have a kid friendly version of The Thing on our hands. Special mentions goes to the partner revisiting Serene Village briefly only to not want to check it out because he knows what went down, but can't bring himself to confirm it. Definitely the moment I felt most for the partner. Having the music change while going around a petrified Lively Town was also a great touch.

The partner was also by far the most developed character of the entire series, really having a detailed tale to him. That being said, it came at a very, very heavy price...

Bad:
Develop the partner all you want, I still don't like him. I thought he was just as annoying as Pancham and the others made him out to be, which really made me think 'Why am I supposed to be friends with this guy?' The straw that really broke the camels back was when he flat out fainted in fear at a ghost story. There's phobias, and then there's being pathetic. It felt less like a friendship and more like meeting a distant family member for the first time and being asked to keep an eye on their kid.

The other problem with the partner is linked to me not liking him and the story overall. The partner is a complete black hole for the plot, with everything revolving around him to the point that he essentially becomes the main character. Explorers also did this to an extent, but only the first third. Here, if you don't feel too friendly with the partner, the story is going to be hamstrung really hard. It pushes the player character to borderline irrelevance as I felt like a glorified bodyguard, looking after the partner while he goes through his story while nothing much happens to me. The only time the human origins comes into play is at Revelation Mountain, which ends up just accelerating Dark Matter's plan. If, say, Deerling became the partner's friend, it wouldn't have changed anything except make it harder for the villains.

The pacing is horrible, even by PMD standards. Sure it has the trademark slow start, but this one felt particularly tutorialized with the whole school thing.The worst paced part though was Primeval Forest - Credits. They dump so much plot and twists on you here that it becomes way too overdone. I'm not given a chance to feel anything as I'm busy trying to work out in my head why things are the way they are. The goodbye scene especially suffers from this. I didn't like the whole reincarnation stuff to begin with and think the story would have been better without it, but giving the stupidest explanation for the amnesia butchered any emotions I would have had for the partner disappearing. The idea that you'd give yourself amnesia to prevent yourself from making the same mistake is so counter-logic it caused the universe to implode. How about, I dunno, learning from your mistakes?! The epilogue with the player character risking Dark Matter returning just so he could see the partner again ended the story of a very sour note for me.

The more I think about Super's story, the less I like it. The characters were at least stronger than Explorers, but they were still weaker than Gate's or Sky's episodes, and Explorers at least had a solid plot, unlike the mess we got here. It annoys me, because there was a lot to like in the story, but it was ruined by a series of very poor choices.

 

[Rakurai]

Yeah...

A lot of the plot points brought up towards the ending of SPMD just made me go "...What?" due to them seeming really illogical, convoluted, and/or coming totally out of the blue.

Which is one thing I really liked about Gates: Every major plot point made perfect sense by the time the ending rolled around, and most of them were foreshadowed to some degree. Even Explorers had things that bugged me, like the hero's past is (They're not even stated to have been called to the Pokemon world like the other heroes, and more weirdly, were allowed to exist in human form).

 

[jireh the provider]

So, do any of you know as to who are the Japanese story writers of these games (from rescue up to super mystery dungeon)? At least if we are criticizing or analyzing the story, character development, and character construction, the best we could do is criticize their works instead?

We're not looking the localization people here. Ok?

 

[High Priest Reuniclus]

I felt that Gates was the best story mostly because it had the fewest problems. The only problems it has was more with how the story was told, such as making the text 'parrot' a lot (Though the other PMDs parroted stuff to, just not as much) and couple it with the slow text speed, scenes can drag on. It also forgets 'show, don't tell' a lot, and as a result, the whole negativity stuff feels weaker than it should have been. Gates however made by far the best use of its characters by keeping the cast small and focused. It also takes a lot of the strain off the partner. Take Super for example - the partner there is so central to the story that it lives and dies by him. If you don't like the partner, the story as a whole is thoroughly gutted. If the Gates partner isn't your thing, you can at least enjoy the others taking an important role.

Speaking of the Gates partner, I'd say he's by far the most underrated character in the series, because he was what the partner should be - a friend. Critics often say he's bland, but I still think there's more to him than the Explorers partner, but most importantly, he was very likeable, and someone I'd want to be friends with (aside from maybe being a bit too open when we first met.) I also like how the partner's ambitions and the main character's stories were tied together. The player kills the Bittercold, but the partner as his paradise and positive thinking ways should prevent it from ever returning.

By contrast, the Explorers partner felt like he was using the main character as a crutch at points which rubbed me the wrong way, and the Super one was too annoying and juvenile to feel like a friend.

 

[VP Turtwig]

The game seems really polished compared to others, however, I do hate the fact that everyone treats you like an irresponsible child.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

The game seems really polished compared to others, however, I do hate the fact that everyone treats you like an irresponsible child.

Even when evolving in the post-game, they can still look down into your inner child.

 

[VP Turtwig]

I felt that Gates was the best story mostly because it had the fewest problems. The only problems it has was more with how the story was told, such as making the text 'parrot' a lot (Though the other PMDs parroted stuff to, just not as much) and couple it with the slow text speed, scenes can drag on. It also forgets 'show, don't tell' a lot, and as a result, the whole negativity stuff feels weaker than it should have been. Gates however made by far the best use of its characters by keeping the cast small and focused. It also takes a lot of the strain off the partner. Take Super for example - the partner there is so central to the story that it lives and dies by him. If you don't like the partner, the story as a whole is thoroughly gutted. If the Gates partner isn't your thing, you can at least enjoy the others taking an important role.

Speaking of the Gates partner, I'd say he's by far the most underrated character in the series, because he was what the partner should be - a friend. Critics often say he's bland, but I still think there's more to him than the Explorers partner, but most importantly, he was very likeable, and someone I'd want to be friends with (aside from maybe being a bit too open when we first met.) I also like how the partner's ambitions and the main character's stories were tied together. The player kills the Bittercold, but the partner as his paradise and positive thinking ways should prevent it from ever returning.

By contrast, the Explorers partner felt like he was using the main character as a crutch at points which rubbed me the wrong way, and the Super one was too annoying and juvenile to feel like a friend.

I think the current parter was intended to be cpexcessively annoying, and that is a problem he has to get over, kinda like in Explorers, where your partner was kind of a coward. Since you are a child, and all your friends will be children in this game, I think it makes sense for your partner to be a little immature.

 

[High Priest Reuniclus]

I think the current parter was intended to be cpexcessively annoying, and that is a problem he has to get over, kinda like in Explorers, where your partner was kind of a coward. Since you are a child, and all your friends will be children in this game, I think it makes sense for your partner to be a little immature.

I agree that it makes sense, but as much sense as it made, he's, well, still annoying, which makes hanging around with him constantly feel like a chore in the first 40% of the story, and by the time he flat out fainted in fear of a simple ghost story, I was pretty much done with him unless he became amazing in the later half, which he didn't.

I think he could have been a great character if the story was set up differently however. Suppose the player character wasn't supposed to represent the player and spoke as much as the partner and had his own developed character. Here, you could really play with the teenager/adult being in a kids body and being more of a mentor to the childish partner without the partner realising it, which would have made the partner's development more concrete instead of just having the annoying childishness slowly fade throughout the story. Alternately, you could have the partner have more striking qualities instead, which would have given me something to root for in him. It also world have worked well with two partners. Maybe the other partner is a quiet grumpy one and they often clashed with the childish partner, and over time and through the player character's guidance, they come together and become better people. That'd work well since 1. They actively learn from each other and 2. If you didn't like one partner, then maybe you'd like the other, so there's something to really get behind and root for.

 

[Divine Retribution]

So there's something I don't understand...

Spoiler: Major spoilers for people just starting the game

Right before you and your partner leaves Serene Village, you comment a couple times that you feel like you're being watched. This seems to be an utterly pointless bit of dialogue that goes absolutely nowhere. I was fully expecting you and your partner to get stalked by... I dunno, something... While you left the village but... Nothing happens. The only thing I can think of is that Nuzleaf was watching you, but that seems unlikely and isn't mentioned later on in the game.

Is there something I missed or is this just another bit of misleading dialogue?

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

So there's something I don't understand...

Spoiler: Major spoilers for people just starting the game

Right before you and your partner leaves Serene Village, you comment a couple times that you feel like you're being watched. This seems to be an utterly pointless bit of dialogue that goes absolutely nowhere. I was fully expecting you and your partner to get stalked by... I dunno, something... While you left the village but... Nothing happens. The only thing I can think of is that Nuzleaf was watching you, but that seems unlikely and isn't mentioned later on in the game.

Is there something I missed or is this just another bit of misleading dialogue?

That's just the main character feeling paranoid of the Beheeyem.

 

[Erron Black]

That's just the main character feeling paranoid of the Beheeyem.

No, it's actually Espurr who was watching you ^^^

 

[Pyroli]

I went into this game with very high hopes, not that it was bad or anything I just found it somewhat off putting. The game as a whole in mechanics seems a bit more simplified; as were the newest main series games like X/Y and Alpha/Omega. I loved many of the new editions like the emeras and looplets but overall this might be very close to being my least favourite game of the whole series. In all, it's very polished, don't get me wrong. But it lacks a lot of the charm and awe inspiring moments that I felt the Rescue and Explorers games covered extremely well. I also found that I felt very distant towards a majority of the main cast in this game? Like, I love what they did with the partner's character but I really didn't grow attached to anyone else like I did in Explorers. (With the exception of Espurr, because she's waifu material.) I feel nothing towards anyone in Serene Village besides my partner and Espurr and I really didn't enjoy the Exploration Society members, I felt they were very bland and not really likable when compared to the colorful cast found in Wigglytuff's Guild.

Spoiler: Story Spoilers

Also, that plot twist was obvious. Like, I can't be the only one that called that from Midway through the story??? For a while they got me thinking it might have been Archen but I knew someone was a double agent or traitor. I also forced evolution thing, it's novel but it's kind of... I dunno? Off putting I guess?

Oh. And the Voidlands? I actually got upset because I was reminded of the bleak future from Sky/Time/Darkness and not granted what I wished I had.

The ending though. Masterful, honestly. This ending filled me with more emotion than any of the previous titles, I went in expecting to be sent back at the end but I didn't expect that turn. I cried for a good 5 minutes, honestly. I was so attached to my partner.

Overall. I'd say the Explorers games are still my peak for Mystery Dungeon games with Rescue behind and then this one. But, it's still a really good game and I'd highly recommend it.

 

[jireh the provider]

I went into this game with very high hopes, not that it was bad or anything I just found it somewhat off putting. The game as a whole in mechanics seems a bit more simplified; as were the newest main series games like X/Y and Alpha/Omega. I loved many of the new editions like the emeras and looplets but overall this might be very close to being my least favourite game of the whole series. In all, it's very polished, don't get me wrong. But it lacks a lot of the charm and awe inspiring moments that I felt the Rescue and Explorers games covered extremely well. I also found that I felt very distant towards a majority of the main cast in this game? Like, I love what they did with the partner's character but I really didn't grow attached to anyone else like I did in Explorers. (With the exception of Espurr, because she's waifu material.) I feel nothing towards anyone in Serene Village besides my partner and Espurr and I really didn't enjoy the Exploration Society members, I felt they were very bland and not really likable when compared to the colorful cast found in Wigglytuff's Guild.

Spoiler: Story Spoilers

Also, that plot twist was obvious. Like, I can't be the only one that called that from Midway through the story??? For a while they got me thinking it might have been Archen but I knew someone was a double agent or traitor. I also forced evolution thing, it's novel but it's kind of... I dunno? Off putting I guess?

Oh. And the Voidlands? I actually got upset because I was reminded of the bleak future from Sky/Time/Darkness and not granted what I wished I had.

The ending though. Masterful, honestly. This ending filled me with more emotion than any of the previous titles, I went in expecting to be sent back at the end but I didn't expect that turn. I cried for a good 5 minutes, honestly. I was so attached to my partner.

Overall. I'd say the Explorers games are still my peak for Mystery Dungeon games with Rescue behind and then this one. But, it's still a really good game and I'd highly recommend it.

You know, one part of me kinda cringes about Espurr being waifu material because I found one picture somewhere on the internet. I won't tell where though for your sake. But I can see the issues you find in this game. So I understand



So, everybody who helped with the understanding of the plot, the patterns are actually coming together now. Finishing my watch of Marriland's PSMD videos, here is my story analysis and the pros and cons. I'll cover it all in spoilers.

Spoiler: Read at your own risk

First comes the characters. Most of you and others point out just how much the plot is centralized on the partner. Honestly, reactions are mixed for I noticed that some do not like having a character that is childlike from the start. Others enjoy the concept of you playing along with your partner like children. Why? Apologies to some of you in advance on what I'm about to say may hurt you, but I see this game telling a subtle story of reliving your days of naivete and childhood. For some of us PMD veterans, most of us see our hero as a grown up in their mid teens up to early twenties in terms of mannerisms and way of thinking. Something more grown up. That is where I found the split. This game resonates more with gamers who want to relive their innocence and being a child again living their live wild and free, versus gamers that expect their partner and heroes to be more goal-oriented and more grown up in their decision making.

If we look at Explorers let us say, the goal of your partner has a goal with planned objectives and knows what he/she has to do to get it done. It kinda feels like an average pre-teen to young adult like goal already with knowledge of the basic needs and requirements of the guild. More prominent in the dialogue of your partner, aka their choice of words.

In Super Mystery Dungeon, the way I see the dialogue is like a young child trying to learn something they like for the first time. We know your partner there want to map out the world with the pokemon Nexus. However, he/she seems to have no full knowledge of the Nexus and the Expedition gadgets upon encountering of them. I see that as childish naivete.

Now to the Pace. Remember my mention on the subtle theme of character maturity, and growing up? Here is my interpretation to the question, "Why is the plot so slow on the first half? Then very fast at the second half?"

We know that the setting is at a little rural village with school children as the hero and partner's friends. Nothing so special about the scene. Everyone is living their merry way of life without looking towards the future and goals. However, your partner's mischievous, curious, and oddly rebellious nature stands out. I see that as a sign of a child up grown up in their self decision making skills much earlier compared to the other children like Pancham and Deerling. The only one that can be close to your partner's view is Espurr herself for obvious reasons

So, "Why is everything in the plot from the Expedition Society Chapters go so fast?" For me to answer you, I have another for you who are already taking college, who are raising their own families, and a few others.

"Do the jobs and problems you face everyday slow down?"​

The way I see this as a college student, it does not slow down most of the time. Problems and obligated tasks keep piling up. You may not be given enough time to absorb and understand on the things you have to do. You might just go for it blind and hope for the best. After stating your work in the Expedition Society for a few days, the moment you go to the Air Continent is the plot spark that makes everything you must do happen from left field.

You could say to me that your partner is goal-oriented and ready for work already. You are right in some ways. However, just look back at the Entei Battle in the mountains. Buizel is not the only reckless character. Your partner is not just reckless, he/she does not judge and analyze the situation properly like how a more experienced person decides the situation and outcomes. Does this moment sound like our teenager moments of identifying ourselves and our goals in this world? That is how I see it so far. You may had been given answers. but you had to pattern it out yourself.

Long story shortened, the plot is more polished to kids about to reach their teen years. Not us young adults.

 

[R_N]

I'm...half-ish...way through the game at this point

Spoiler

Crossing the sea with Lapras for the first time

but I am enjoying this game significantly more than Explorers or Rescue (I passed on Gates). I've gleamed that the slow first half of the game is mostly unrelated to its second half plot points, but I really enjoy all the characters and writing. It's a very charming game which is something I never really felt with the other 2; Explorers in particular could get really tedious in its writing, especially when the entire guild was involved in a conversation. I also think this game has, thus far, did a nicer job of making the cast seem like friends; it was cute seeing the Partner change a little over the start and it was nice seeing the entire school become on good terms.

Spoiler: the other town

The expedition society's members are also fun, I think slimming their rankings down from Explorer's like 15 members really worked for the best here. Dedenne is the best

Do wish they had done a little more with the school setting, but oh well

I think being 3D also helps. I do enjoy the DS games' spritework, but the models and camera do add more personality than I thought they would.

 

[Rakurai]

The characterization was definitely better then Explorers, but not as good as Gates, IMO.

I feel like there were still too many characters for most of them to get adequate screentime and development, and the whole deal with making almost everyone from Serene Village irrelevant in the latter half of the story didn't sit well with me.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Another issue with continuity...

Spoiler

In PMD2 all 3 Lake Guardians guard Time Gears on what would be the Grass Continent. In PMD4 they're scattered across 3 continents residing in 3 entirely new lakes. Now, it could be said that, since the Time Gears were brought to Temporal Tower in PMD2, there's no reason for them to stay at their original lakes and so they could have eventually moved to the ones they currently reside at, but why? Also, Mesprit's new lake, Heart Lake, appears to be right where Fogbound Lake is supposed to be.

Just some more minor nitpicks to be had... If they were going to move the Guardians to new lakes, they could have at least, uh, not put Mesprit's lake right where Uxie's lake used to be...

 

[Taodragon]

The characterization was definitely better then Explorers, but not as good as Gates, IMO.

I feel like there were still too many characters for most of them to get adequate screentime and development, and the whole deal with making almost everyone from Serene Village irrelevant in the latter half of the story didn't sit well with me.

Spoiler: Characters

I agree, while it has great characters like Espurr, there are a number that just fall to the wayside or aren't used well at all.

The rest of the kids have no role past your leave of the village, Krookodile is a decoy at best and doesn't have his criminal record so much as touched on in a meaningful way, Swirlix is a gimmick through and through, and most of the guild members only get a limited amount of focus (or none in the case of poor Bunnelby). They had too many characters to balance and it does show, which is a shame since they all had a lot of potential.

 

[R_N]

I'm at the final boss now. This is just the right kind of ridiculousness i live for so I enjoyed every plot beat and event.

But then I died on the second phase and the story has committed the most cardinal sin of all RPGS: Unskippable cutscenes
It is 2015, this is unacceptable

e: Seriously the form 2 cutscene is great but it is SO LONG and so much of it is stuff you can't mash through

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I'm at the final boss now. This is just the right kind of ridiculousness i live for so I enjoyed every plot beat and event.

But then I died on the second phase and the story has committed the most cardinal sin of all RPGS: Unskippable cutscenes
It is 2015, this is unacceptable

e: Seriously the form 2 cutscene is great but it is SO LONG and so much of it is stuff you can't mash through

Loophole abuse the game and restock items through Pelipper Island.

 

[R_N]

Loophole abuse the game and restock items through Pelipper Island.

I had dropped a save on floor 7, but yeah I would have tried that out. It's nice that they had that option at all, really & it would only be 7 floors to go through again, so that's really kind.
I eventually just had to abuse the AI and charmander's flame burst. Riolu very quickly couldn't do much, so I was glad I had enough elixers. I also had a single blast seed so shaving off 100 HP during a safe zone helped a ton.

But seriously why could you not skip those cutscenes. Even if it was multiple smaller cutscens that you have to skip individually.

e: So, having sat through all that, I still like the game a lot. Character & Story wise, I enjoyed it a lot more than Explorers and still do. While neither plot is entirely original (I am pretty sure every other SMT game has this game's plot), SPMD's resonated with me more. Explorers also isn't helped by the world's most tedious exposition because god that game needed an editor so bad. Explorer's highest points where the big reveal and the final goodbye, everything else just sort of merges into nothing for me.
I think the early cast could be a little more relevant, but I stand by enjoying both halves' casts and characters more than Explorers. I even cared about

Spoiler

That beheeyem! I was really surprised, but they made him work. Side note: I'd say the game handled the rotating story partners really well. It was cool traveling alongside these pokemon, especially the veteran exploration members. They were skilled and it showed. And it was awesome feeling walking through dungeons with a party of like 7

The plot points brought up in the second half did come a little fast, I guess, but I was rarely going "wait what that makes no sense" though one plot point in particular feels like there was meant to be an additional dungeon or something to break it up

Spoiler

the one where it's revealed you came from the past.
i can see the clues being there, but maybe just another plot event needed to let it breathe a little

Only 1 other sticking point for me:

Spoiler: major spoilers, dont look if you havent seen the credits sequence

Your partner being like...time displaced...reborn?? mew

There was clearly something going on with the partner and once the time travel plot point was dropped I had a feeling he was related to the past in some way (literally foudn as a baby in scarves) but the fact they just drop the Mew on you is like??? ok???
I was thinking "Maybe the partner was a human?" or the original partner of the human (which okay, yes, that's what Mew was but)

I think it would have been better to bring up how Dark Matter happened in the past, how Mew lead the charge, etc earlier. Then mention how no one can locate Mew now and keep bringing it up in a suspicious fashion. Maybe the partner recognizes the name and doesnt react well to it or something.

Still, good game, hooked me from the start and I blitzed through it over like 5 days. Most I've enjoyed these mystery dungeon games.