Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon Story Discussion

[Rakurai]

I wasn't really a fan of all the plot twists in the last fourth of the game, since it felt like a bit much to absorb in such a small span of time. Both Explorers and Gates basically just went "Here's your problem, now go fix it" for the last fourth, and I honestly kind of preferred that.

I also wasn't too keen on the hero taking a backseat to the partner in terms of importance, either, nor the return to them being an amnesiac chosen one with an extremely vague past. The hero in Gates was handled the best, IMO, because:

1. They didn't have amnesia, and were thus realistically concerned about their past life at times, as were others.

2. They aren't some special chosen one, just a random nobody who was willing to answer a generalized call for help.

3. Their past is a blank slate, and thus leaves the player with no questions about it at all, whereas both Explorers and SPMD bring up just enough to leave tons of unanswered questions in the end.

4. There's actually a reason given for why they were needed to save the world for once, rather then being human mostly for the purpose of being able to relate to them more.

 

[R_N]

If Gates to Infinity ever had an update to blitz through the text, I'd love to try it out. But that demo completely stopped me from ever getting it. I could never put up with it for that long. Plot sounds really interesting.

But yeah the human plot point is, and kind of always has been (Beyond Gates, I guess!), super unneeded. Super's human doesn't even get their memories back. Like it's just done for tradition's sake.
Just once I want a game to explore the weirdness of there being a huamn world separate from a pokemon world, but also, address why the pokemon world is even aware of a human world. So many questions!

 

[jireh the provider]

Well then, if cutscenes are a big problem for some playing this game, they may not had ever watched a Metal Gear Solid Cutscene by Hideo Kojima. That for me is the epitome of REALLY long cutscenes. Though you can skip it on his games, but in terms of length, this game does NOT even match at MGS.

Still, this game is troped as a Contested Sequel by TVTropes.

If only there is another thread where we could discuss all the strengths of every PMD Games.

 

[Rakurai]

The only problem with the cutscenes is that they aren't skippable and most people won't want to hit "Give up" if they lose a boss fight and will thus be subjected to them all over again.

 

[R_N]

Well then, if cutscenes are a big problem for some playing this game, they may not had ever watched a Metal Gear Solid Cutscene by Hideo Kojima. That for me is the epitome of REALLY long cutscenes. Though you can skip it on his games, but in terms of length, this game does NOT even match at MGS.

Still, this game is troped as a Contested Sequel by TVTropes.

If only there is another thread where we could discuss all the strengths of every PMD Games.

I am fine with watching long cutscenes
once

You said right there that you can skip them in MGS. You can not skip custscens at all in SPMD (or Explorers, boy I remember that), which is the issue

 

[Bguy7]

Alright, I finally just finished the main story. I was actually much happier with it than I thought I was going to be. Admittedly, the entire first half of the game had practically no story purpose and served purely as character development and a glorified tutorial and the second half went way too fast, but the the story that did come in the second half (Or more like final quarter) was absolutely amazing. This game easily recaptured the charm that was lost in Gates to Infinity. I think this might beat out the Rescue Team games and even comes close to Explorers in my book. If they had paced the story better and done a few more changes (more on that later) then this game could easily have been better than Explorers (I never would have thought that possible before playing this game).

Spoiler: My Anylsis with some Spoilers

Now, aside from pacing problems, I feel like the biggest issue with this game was missed opportunities. For example, there are three whole continents full of dungeons that aren't even used for the the story, and a forth continent that you only go to once. I don't know about you guys, but I never even bought a pass for another continent because I didn't feel like shelling out the money during the story, and kept on holding out thinking that maybe someone would buy it for me at some point like Archen did. Back in Rescue Team and Explorers, almost every dungeon you could go to before beating the game had some kind of importance to the story. The opposite is true here.

The other missed opportunity was a better usage of their references to previous games. All across the game they worked in numerous references to Rescue Team, Explorers, and Gates to Infinity, and yet none of them really mean anything. They could have added to plot and character development by making some of these references more ingrained in the game. Like why not have Wigglytuff and the Guild appear as a rivals to the Expedition Society. Or have Hydreigon appear at the end to help save the Tree of Life, as it is the Voice of Nature. At the very least, the Celebi at the end of the game could have at least been shiny. It didn't have to make any references to Explorers, but we would at least know that the same character that helped us out in that game is now helping us again. In addition to characters, they could have also used the locations. Since there are three continents that are basically designed purely to reference the older games, why not put in familiar locations/dungeons? If you have to put a town on each continent anyways, why not make it the towns we already know? There's really no good reason I can think of. On top of that, I would love to visit the Temporal Tower to recruit Dialga, or the Sky Tower for Rayquaza. Once again, if these Pokemon are in the game, and you're already making references to past games, the question is why not?

Now don't get me wrong, I loved this game, but I feel there was so much wasted potential at the same time.

 

[Rakurai]

SPMD really made me wish there was some continuity between the different games in the series.

Spoiler: Spoilers for SPMD and other games

After Hydreigon's mention that there are Voices of Life watching over other parts of the world back in Gates, I was seriously expecting that plot point to come up again, especially with the whole life/death theme surrounding Xerneas and Yveltal. He's just about the last Pokemon you'd expect to be doing nothing with another world-ending crisis at hand.

The only Pokemon from previous games who even played a role in the story again were Jirachi and Xatu (Who isn't even confirmed to be the same one from Rescue Team).

 

[AlaCritical Hit]

The things that you are pointing out are basically why I believe there are NO true continuities between these games, instead they are merely shout-outs.

 

[Bguy7]

The things that you are pointing out are basically why I believe there are NO true continuities between these games, instead they are merely shout-outs.

There is some to a minor degree, as characters from the previous games are directly in this game. So many that it's more than just an Easter egg. Some even reference their town and/or business they came from. There is continuity, it just wasn't expressed well.

 

[jireh the provider]

So, are we saying we are very disappointed to Spike Chunsoft? If that is the case, it is kinda like right to criticize them in the first place.

Speaking of continuities, I assume that SC does not like or perfer games where continuity play a vital role. Or does tis game seen differently to the Japanese versus the west?

 

[Creyk]

So, are we saying we are very disappointed to Spike Chunsoft? If that is the case, it is kinda like right to criticize them in the first place.

Speaking of continuities, I assume that SC does not like or perfer games where continuity play a vital role. Or does tis game seen differently to the Japanese versus the west?

Not at all. What matters, the actual game. Who cares all about this continuity sh**, it literally has nothing to do with the actual gaming experience, and it's a totally irrelevant piece of the game. It shouldn't be judged on an insignificant shortcoming like this. If anything, the horrible Mega Evolution mechanic is the thing deserving of criticism, but luckily it's a small part of the overall game.

 

[Psynergy]

Mega Evolution wasn't really a bad mechanic in this game, just a little more limited than it should have been. It totally should last longer than it does, though I don't have a problem with it being locked to an Emera since it seems like an attempt to balance the fact that not all Pokemon (or specifically starters) have a Mega. The berserk status was also a very interesting answer to having Mega Evolution without a trainer (even though a legendary Mega going berserk doesn't make that much sense but whatever) and if I'm being honest, I rarely had cases of a berserk Mega beating on my own team so that's not really a massive drawback either. Now the fact that we can't use the Primals at all, that's something I didn't like. I'm actually surprised at how little Mega Evolution was connected to the plot though. The only times it appears in the plot, it doesn't even get the usual glorified treatment it gets in the main series games, though I think that's actually a good thing within the context of this world.

 

[Illusio]

Not at all. What matters, the actual game. Who cares all about this continuity sh**, it literally has nothing to do with the actual gaming experience, and it's a totally irrelevant piece of the game. It shouldn't be judged on an insignificant shortcoming like this. If anything, the horrible Mega Evolution mechanic is the thing deserving of criticism, but luckily it's a small part of the overall game.

Considering the main draw of these games is the story, I'd say it matters.

 

[Bguy7]

Not at all. What matters, the actual game. Who cares all about this continuity sh**, it literally has nothing to do with the actual gaming experience, and it's a totally irrelevant piece of the game. It shouldn't be judged on an insignificant shortcoming like this. If anything, the horrible Mega Evolution mechanic is the thing deserving of criticism, but luckily it's a small part of the overall game.

I would say that the continuity does affect the actual gaming experience. One of my major points in my opinion on this game was that if some of the characters that are already in this game from previous titles were worked into the story, we could have had a much more unique, interesting, and entertaining story, and story is one of the most important parts of the gaming experience, at least to me.

Spoiler: Post Game Spoiler

I was very happy though to see that Xatu played a part in post-game story. It possibly could have been a different one, as no direct reference was made, but that was the sort of thing I was talking about wanting them to do.

Should I even bother using spoilers? This is the story discussion thread, anyone coming here is probably expecting and/or wants to be spoiled.

 

[Cometstarlight]

I think one of the biggest continuity errors is when

Spoiler: I guess this is a spoiler

You rescue Guildmaster Wigglytuff and Chatot calls him a 'her'

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I think one of the biggest continuity errors is when

Spoiler: I guess this is a spoiler

You rescue Guildmaster Wigglytuff and Chatot calls him a 'her'

And yet a related character calls it a "he" correctly.

 

[Bguy7]

I think one of the biggest continuity errors is when

Spoiler: I guess this is a spoiler

You rescue Guildmaster Wigglytuff and Chatot calls him a 'her'

And yet a related character calls it a "he" correctly.

Seriously? That's awful. Is it a translation error, or is the same mistake made in the Japanese version?

 

[Rakurai]

Wasn't Ampharos female in the JP version of SPMD?

For all we know they could've goofed/changed it with Wigglytuff, as well.

 

[Taodragon]

I doubt it was an intentional change, particularly if another character got the gender right in another line, so it was probably a mistake.

On Ampharos though, from what I understand, the translators assumed he was female because he used "Watashi," which can be feminine in certain context. However, from what I understand, "Watashi" can also be used by males (and thus, both genders) as it's a formal and gender neutral way of saying "I" in Japanese, so that may've been a swing and a miss on the original translator's part. Having said that, I'm not the best at my Japanese, so I could be off in my assessment there.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Not at all. What matters, the actual game. Who cares all about this continuity sh**, it literally has nothing to do with the actual gaming experience, and it's a totally irrelevant piece of the game. It shouldn't be judged on an insignificant shortcoming like this. If anything, the horrible Mega Evolution mechanic is the thing deserving of criticism, but luckily it's a small part of the overall game.

Assuming that nobody plays these games with any interest in the story is just plain stupid in my opinion, but hey.

The "gaming experience" is completely subjective, and acting like something that is irrelevant to your gaming experience should be irrelevant to everyone elses makes you come across as a conceited authoritarian, honestly.