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Does this idea seem at all plausible to you?


  • Total voters
    189

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
I don't mind having a jerk rival as long as they're not like the anime's jerk rivals. Don't have one of the first things that come out of their mouths be an insult or at least give them a reason to start acting like a jerk. Like maybe your stronger rival could be your cousin while the weaker rival is your younger sibling, both you and your younger sibling arrive late to getting their Pokemon so your cousin calls you a ditz and/or a slowpoke for wasting their time and as the game goes on and you keep winning your cousin starts getting frustrated because they think you aren't taking being a trainer seriously.

I like the idea of having a relative be a Professor because that kind of puts Blue and Brendan/May's characters into perspective.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
I honestly think the rivals from the past few games have been kind of terrible. For the first few generations, our rivals always learned something from us. In RGB, Blue learned that he isn't invincible, Silver learned to appreciate his Pokemon as more than just tools, in RSE and OR/AS, Wally forced not only his Pokemon but also himself to become stronger and less dependent in order to compete with us (May/Brendan don't count, they're soulless husks of human beings, and in a way symbolic of what's to come in the future. I consider Wally to be the true rival from RSE and OR/AS, or rather, I consider us to be Wally's rival. We're the driving force behind him improving himself.). From there, it kind of breaks down. A lot of people praise Barry as the "ideal" rival, but what does he actually learn from us? What moral is there in his story? Does he actually progress as a character? I see very little progression, if any. He begins as a rash, reckless person and ends exactly the same way. B/W and B2/W2 are my least played games and the Gen 5 rivals were very forgettable in my opinion, but I did notice the same trend and lack of progression in their rivals too. Same goes for X/Y, although they at least gave your rivals personality there, as well as interests that make them seem more like believable humans.

Finally in S/M we get Lillie, another character with actual progression throughout the story and she isn't even your rival in any sense of the word. Hau and Gladion suffer from the same characteristics that the other recent rivals suffer from, no real character progression, no lessons learned from the player, and at least in Hau's case, extremely one dimensional personalities with no real reason to care about them as characters or see them as anything more than plot devices. In fact, I consider these two the worst of the bunch for different reasons. Hau is just... there. He could be entirely axed from the storyline and it wouldn't change much at all. On the other hand, in Gladion's case it seems like they at least tried to make him interesting, given that he actually has a backstory and a unique personality, but they also left way too many loose ends that, at the very least, would have been much more interesting had they tied them up. How did he end up with Team Skull in the first place? How exactly did he get Type:Null to evolve? Why does he have that hand tremor? They could have done so much more with him, and they just didn't. It's wasted potential in my opinion.

Anyways, I don't really care exactly what the Sw/Sh rival is like. They can be nice, they can be a jerk, they can be somewhere in between, they can be both at once. I don't care as long as they actually progress as a character throughout the story. They should learn something along the way. They should be a different person by the end of the story than they were at the start of it. They should be a fully fleshed out character with a unique personality, motivations, quirks, and some backstory, preferably one that's more believable and relatable than always being jerks for the sake of being a jerk, or always being nice for the sake of being nice.

I feel you're overplaying Wally a bit (at least, RSE Wally) while underplaying Barry, Bianca and Cheren. Wally does have growth in the sense that he becomes more confident and strong, but we only see him three times in the story, one where he's at his weakest, another where he's barely made progress, and then the final moment where he jumps to being completely competent. That's not really great growth as we don't see any of his development from that second point where he's barely grown to the final moment where he tries to displace May/Brendan (who are still rivals since they challenge you repeatedly and try to prove themselves stronger, just because they sucked in RSE doesn't change that),and thus the rivalry is barely there. He also never gets a chance to fight you at your strongest and rematch you in the post-game like the majority of the other rivals, so his place in the story stops right there whereas the others get a final chance to shine for you. He does get better in ORAS since they give him more moments to shine in the main game and a place in the Battle Resort, but even then we don't see him in that many more battles so he's still rather limited by comparison.

Barry doesn't grow through the player, that is true (though to be honest, you could write out the DPPt protagonists and little would change in the story as most of the conflict gets resolved without their influence), but he does grow a bit nonetheless. After losing to Jupiter at the lake, he realizes that he can't try to be his dad and live in his shadow and he has to become stronger through better focus and determination. It's not huge, but it's there. Bianca's development focuses on trying to find what she wants in life and while she realizes she's not the strongest trainer around, she still wants to become a stronger person and she continues to pursue her dream regardless of who opposes her (even her own dad). That leads to her eventually reaping the rewards of that labor as she beats the Gyms, becomes stronger as a trainer, and becomes a professor's assistant in B2W2 showing that all of her effort does lead to her finding what she wants in life and continuing to work for it. Similarly, Cheren is a character who at first is consistently focused on being the strongest trainer, but he never really thinks about why or what he wants to do with it, and the story has him focus on why he wants that growth and what it means to him. It's through his journey that he eventually finds what he's looking for and like Bianca that leads to him becoming a Gym Leader in B2W2 where he uses his strength to teach others to become stronger.

I won't speak for Hau and Gladion as I didn't play USUM and I need to replay SM, so anyone with more familiarity with them would be better to talk about them then I am.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
I feel you're overplaying Wally a bit (at least, RSE Wally) while underplaying Barry, Bianca and Cheren.

I won't speak for Hau and Gladion as I didn't play USUM and I need to replay SM, so anyone with more familiarity with them would be better to talk about them then I am.
Before I go on about the Alola rivals, I want to say I agree with you on how the aforementioned rivals develop

First, Hau. Admittedly, in SM, he has little change. But as much as people give USUM flack, it does help Hau’s character improve. He mentions that he wants to live up to the standards of Hala in which characters like Olivia (after your grand trial) and Guzma (after your first encounter with him) tell him he should do it for his own reasons. He doesn’t mind losing at first as he’s having fun but after Lillie gets kidnapped and his starters (and Gladion) want him to be more serious, he turns his outlook around and strives to be stronger after the climax at Aether

Gladion is not as complex but he learns to trust others after all the support he receives from everyone but mainly you and Hau when he wants to rescue Lillie (weird how the turning point for both of them is at Aether). This is reflected in most of his Pokèmon being friendship evolutions
 
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Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
When I was playing Pokemon Sapphire as a kid, I honestly had no clue that Wally was supposed to be a rival. I'm pretty sure I even forgot who he was between me helping him catch his first Ralts and the final battle against him. he really didn't have enough presence.

Yeah, admittedly OR/AS did a better job presenting Wally as a rival than the original R/S/E did.
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
Yeah the rivals in RSE were often just kind of there, they didn't do much and often just got in the way.

Blue was annoying and a little bit much, honestly you could probably also write out a few of his scenes and there wouldn't be a lot lost, idk maybe if they made some of his bratty moments make more sense or maybe have him earn his ego before the end? We know he keeps beating the gyms before us but not too many trainers really talk about his victories from what I remember, at least we saw Gary earn his ego and it felt less...one sided I guess. I dunno, Blue just didn't seem like he was rivaling us in any way and more like he was just a brat, it's probably because we didn't get any dialogue options other than yes and no.

Silver, I think Silver kinda got better in the remake. Silver had kind of an interesting story but to my knowledge we didn't get any reasons for his behavior until HGSS came out. Honestly he was more an enemy then a rival.

I liked Barry, he was nice but he wasn't like, "OMG you're so awesome!" All the time. He encouraged you to get stronger but also made it clear that he was not going to hold back and was taking the whole thing very seriously. Barry actually felt like a rival.

Cheren at first was kind of boring but he gets better in the sequel, the real star on the rival end is Bianca. Her whole story is that she's not sure what she wants to do, she's not out to be the very best or anything, she just wants to experience life and decide what to do with herself and being a trainer lets her do that. Hugh was really forgettable, so forgettable that I'm not even sure if his name is Hugh. He has a nice story that connects to the big conflict and, like Barry, encourages you to get strong while taking the journey seriously but he's just not that much fun to me.

The XY squad, they're really boring. They're the negative side of a friendly rival. Wouldn't be so bad if we were actual travel companions but nope. Serena/Callum have an interesting story I guess but some of it comes out of nowhere like would it have been so hard to add a scene of them and Shauna arguing before going off to stop the weapon? This wasn't a good time for Pokmon's endearing vague, cryptic wording, this was clearly an important character moment.

Hau and Gladion were fine, not perfect but fine. They played off of each other just fine. They were better than XY's rivals.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
For me personally, I want another story-heavy rival like Hugh. Also does anyone else find it funny that one of Hugh's Pokemon is Bouffalant who has an afro like him. To be honest, I don't think any of the rivals outside of Hau and Gladion have really participated that much in the story.
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
For me personally, I want another story-heavy rival like Hugh. Also does anyone else find it funny that one of Hugh's Pokemon is Bouffalant who has an afro like him. To be honest, I don't think any of the rivals outside of Hau and Gladion have really participated that much in the story.
I suppose if you really think about it a lot of the rivals didn't really participate in the main plot too much, at the very least most of them didn't help to storm the evil team base which I have to give Hugh credit for.

Honestly, I've been toying around with the idea that perhaps the rivals travel with you at some points. Obviously as shown in the trailer they wouldn't be around all the time but maybe at some points in the game they follow you? Like with the XY group only more fun and memorable and maybe more than once or twice for each rival.
 
D

Deleted member 384931

Guest
The rivals must be writtenby the anime staff. A bit like Paul OR Alain type rival.
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
I don't think I'd like a Paul type of rival, I suppose if they toned down the unlikable parts about him it'd be fine. Well at least he was better than Trip and he didn't start the first conversation by calling someone's home the boondocks while everyone just lets him talk. If that house next to ours is the rivals' home then I would have no problem with them being like Paul or a little like Trip.
 

PokeMon2.0

Cramorant is too cute for words!
I’m looking forward to see what instrument will be the ‘trumpet’ of the region (as in the most commonly used instrument).
Definitely think we’ll get a theme that has bagpipes in it though. Maybe one of the Elite 4 or Champion related themes?
 

SoulRebel726

Well-Known Member
I'd honestly love for the rival to be like Paul. A jerk rival doesn't have to be shallow outside of just being a jerk. There's as much potential for character development as for a friendly rival.

Watching Ash beat Paul in the anime is probably the most memorable moment in the entire show for me. Part of that was because Paul was a jerk most of the time. Paul being a jerk to Ash, and even more so, being a jerk to Chimchar, made that win immensely satisfying. I've never enjoyed watching Ash beat a friendly rival like that. I personally find it more satisfying to beat a jerk than Mr. Happy-Go-Lucky-Pants that we've been getting recently. Let's be honest, the character development in these games is really fairly minimal and straightforward. I feel like having the rival be mean to me is probably the simplest thing they can do to make me think "I wanna beat that guy." I'm all for some real character development, but I'm not sure Game Freak is either capable or willing of doing something beyond things like "nice neighborhood friend wants to become strong/find him or herself" or "jerk rival that realizes the error of his or her ways at the end." At least I have a little motivation to beat the latter rival.

I'd be happy to be mistaken by getting a more well thought out rival that can surprise me with character development though.
 
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