What were the previous "trumpets"?
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Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]
Storm the Lycanroc
Oshawott Squad
Trumpets were the main instrument used in Hoenn music.
SoulRebel726
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but that was 20 years ago. That's a long time without a rival that I actually care about beating. Just my opinion of course. But the rivals in later games felt more like people that followed me around to ask me to battle occasionally, rather than someone that I felt rivaled me.
Maybe a better way for me to articulate that, is that I simply want an actual rival. Not just a guy that battles me 5 times over the course of the game. But someone who actually rivals my ideas. Someone that views pokemon and the world differently than me. Someone that I want to beat specifically so I can prove him/her wrong. I didn't get that from Brendan/May, Barry, the BW crew, the XY crew, or Hau. I actually like Wally because the me as the player really being more of his rival and the driving force behind his ambitions was interesting. He just didn't get enough screen time. Gladion was okay too, but there were a lot of missed opportunities there. It's been a long time since I've enjoyed a rival.
Pikasaur
Lazy Summer
Wasn't Hugh in B2/W2 kind of in between. Not as "rival" as Gary and Silver, but not as friendly as X&Y friends.
WhiteBlair
ベストチャンピオン。
I would love to have a backstory for the rival. As much as I'd like a goal-oriented, professional rival, I knew I probably would be bored each time we get to crush their feelings and they accept the loss. That is one of the reasons why 'jerk' rivals are always preferred than the friendlier ones; they make you feel it is your 'goal' to taste them defeat and usually have a reason behind why they act like this.
To me, DPPT and BW2 did a good job by assigning Timid/Bold characteristics to Barry and Hugh respectively. They were sort of friendly, always by your side, but had respective goals and lively, whereas Hoenn and Kalos literally failed in that category. Wouldn't mind at all if SW/SH rivals are inspired by the examples of previous generations; mainly 1, 2, 4 and 5.
To me, DPPT and BW2 did a good job by assigning Timid/Bold characteristics to Barry and Hugh respectively. They were sort of friendly, always by your side, but had respective goals and lively, whereas Hoenn and Kalos literally failed in that category. Wouldn't mind at all if SW/SH rivals are inspired by the examples of previous generations; mainly 1, 2, 4 and 5.
XXD17
Draco rex
Sorry for getting extremely off track, but I personally don't see Paul as a jerk. I see a jerk is just someone who is mean and immature for no reason. Trip, now he's a jerk, but Paul is just a different kind of trainer. To me he was the foil to Ash, his training mantra is using tough love to make Pokemon realize their potential while Ash's is using compassion. Paul was never abusive to his Pokemon and only talked down to Ash because he viewed Ash's methods as inefficient and inferior (which to be fair, they are). Paul only keeps Pokemon that have good potential and releases the ones that don't as exemplified by what he did with the starly. I mean we all do this. What do we do with Pokemon with bad IV's or natures? Release them. The only reason he kept training chimchar is because he saw the potential that chimchar had to be strong. He ended up releasing it because Paul realized that chimchar won't reach its potential training under his methods so there was no more point in putting through such harsh training regimen. He always had what was best for his Pokemon in mind and was never abusive. He used nasty words as a way to allow chimchar leave without any lasting attachment (this is a pretty common trope) although this only came off as him being nasty. But, you realize that Paul still had respect for chimchar regardless especially at the end when infernape bears electivire where Paul realizes that certain Pokemon will only reach their potential with certain training styles. A jerk is someone who is annoying and hateful for no good reason and a generally terrible person. Paul is someone that I grew to respect once I understood why he does the things he did.
I don't think a rival as deep as Paul can be conveyed in a game unless there was tons of development and, dare I say, cut scenes.
Ultra Beast Lover
Well-Known Member
I can definitely agree on not having rivals like the Hoenn and Kalos group. I don't really mind if we have a jerk rival or a nice rival so long as they're interesting characters. Maybe the nice rival could be someone who has a fear of large Pokemon because of an accident and they're on a journey to get through their fears and the jerk rival can be full of themself and think that their destiny is to catch the legendary Pokemon and become the champion. They could even have a segment or two each where they travel with you to the next gym. The nice rival ends up needing help when their Pokemon all faint and the jerk rival runs off and gets into trouble meaning you have to save them.
janejane6178
Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
I know that the Kalos rivals were boring, but why does no1 mention Hau ? He wasn't less boring than any of them.
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
At least in my opinion, Hau was better because he was actually integrated well into the story and had development as a character. I didn't really like him as a rival too much, but he was definitely better than the Kalos rivals.
Yea I wasn't really a fan of Hau. He kind of got on my nerves every so often. Similar to the ones in X/Y.
Zoruagible
Lover of underrated characters
Hau was how you do friendly rivals right. He had backstory, did more than just battle you, had relations to other characters, had development...
Tierno, Trevor, Serena/Calem, and Not-Gary(By far the worst rival....) are bad examples
I want another Hugh-like rival, one who is your friend but not 100% friendly "OMG besties!" like XY rivals and Not-Gary
Tierno, Trevor, Serena/Calem, and Not-Gary(By far the worst rival....) are bad examples
I want another Hugh-like rival, one who is your friend but not 100% friendly "OMG besties!" like XY rivals and Not-Gary
Ultra Beast Lover
Well-Known Member
Hau was a good character if you looked closely, a decent rival with decent AI but a very good character...later on like around the Aether infiltration because he gets serious about saving Lillie. He was a little annoying sometimes but not as bad as the Kalos group.
The Kalos group had a great thing going, they were friends who let you into the group and let you have a nickname (I think I made them call me something like Lady Serena cause I'm mean like that) They were, in a way, travelling alongside you. Then it kind of stopped, they were still your friends but they just kind of randomly appeared and vanished. I barely remember what Trevor and Tierno said back then, Shauna's a little more memorable because of the palace, the random out of nowhere "makeup" scene during the final Team Flare confrontation, and the fact that she won't leave my lawn. The opposite rival is kind of interesting but I barely remember their story. I know Trevor lives alone with his sister in Lumiose but nothing came of that either. Shauna's the only one with a sidequest that was just with her. What they should've done was give each one a segment where they travel with you and you learn about them. You learn what Shauna wants to do with herself, why Tierno wants to be a dancer, why Trevor is so invested in the pokedex, and what drives the opposite rival.
The Kalos group had a great thing going, they were friends who let you into the group and let you have a nickname (I think I made them call me something like Lady Serena cause I'm mean like that) They were, in a way, travelling alongside you. Then it kind of stopped, they were still your friends but they just kind of randomly appeared and vanished. I barely remember what Trevor and Tierno said back then, Shauna's a little more memorable because of the palace, the random out of nowhere "makeup" scene during the final Team Flare confrontation, and the fact that she won't leave my lawn. The opposite rival is kind of interesting but I barely remember their story. I know Trevor lives alone with his sister in Lumiose but nothing came of that either. Shauna's the only one with a sidequest that was just with her. What they should've done was give each one a segment where they travel with you and you learn about them. You learn what Shauna wants to do with herself, why Tierno wants to be a dancer, why Trevor is so invested in the pokedex, and what drives the opposite rival.
Ducolamia
SAYYYY WHAT???
People wrote their messages before me lol
The difference between Hau and the XY rivals is that Hau is an actual developed character other the half-assed X and Y characters. It was pretty clear to me that despite Hau not being a great rival he was still a fun character. And that's what matters to me. In my opinion he's what the friends character should've been. Easy going but still fun to hang out with. Keep in mind the friend characters are not rivals. You already have one (Calem), but even then Hau is still a major improvement.
The X and Y friend characters fail because they are just one-note characters. They barely do anything in the game and near the end the game wants to treat it as if they helped stopped team flare when we never see that. At most, Shana brings the code-breaker that SHE DID NOT EVEN MAKE.
Hau not only starts off your journey, he actively cares about Lillie (a major character) and helps you fight off Aether grunts as well as break into the Foundation. In UsUm he also gets better development between him and Guzma who flat out tells him he doesn't need to do the challenge to impress anyone which also highlights Guzma's character as he failed to live to the expectations of his father. It's made pretty clear Hau while easy-going is still under a bit of pressure.
Say what you want about not liking Hau personally (many people I know didn't) but unlike the X and Y characters who remain static for the majority of the game, he actually develops.
The next rival should have more story importance obviously. I'd love to see a rival in the same level of importance like Lily. I think it would be something fun. Traveling with someone who you actively fight with and solve mysteries together.
The difference between Hau and the XY rivals is that Hau is an actual developed character other the half-assed X and Y characters. It was pretty clear to me that despite Hau not being a great rival he was still a fun character. And that's what matters to me. In my opinion he's what the friends character should've been. Easy going but still fun to hang out with. Keep in mind the friend characters are not rivals. You already have one (Calem), but even then Hau is still a major improvement.
The X and Y friend characters fail because they are just one-note characters. They barely do anything in the game and near the end the game wants to treat it as if they helped stopped team flare when we never see that. At most, Shana brings the code-breaker that SHE DID NOT EVEN MAKE.
Hau not only starts off your journey, he actively cares about Lillie (a major character) and helps you fight off Aether grunts as well as break into the Foundation. In UsUm he also gets better development between him and Guzma who flat out tells him he doesn't need to do the challenge to impress anyone which also highlights Guzma's character as he failed to live to the expectations of his father. It's made pretty clear Hau while easy-going is still under a bit of pressure.
Say what you want about not liking Hau personally (many people I know didn't) but unlike the X and Y characters who remain static for the majority of the game, he actually develops.
The next rival should have more story importance obviously. I'd love to see a rival in the same level of importance like Lily. I think it would be something fun. Traveling with someone who you actively fight with and solve mysteries together.
Fair enough. I'm glad that Hau cheers you on character wise, Shana... kind of got on my nerves for her lack of development. Wish that they would have done more there with that, same goes with the other X and Y friend characters. They got short changed in my opinion and it sucks. It was so disappointing. Was hoping for more from them.
Satoshi & Touko
Peanuts aren't just a nut.
Friendly rival? Jerk Rival? Evil Rival? A mix of different archetypes rival?
Regardless of what they are, they are something I battle several times along the way in my journey towards hitting up all the different clothing shops.
Oh, and claiming my spot on the regional Champion's throne.
Regardless of what they are, they are something I battle several times along the way in my journey towards hitting up all the different clothing shops.
Ducolamia
SAYYYY WHAT???
That's a pretty fun way to look at it!
In reality rivals are just roadblocks for the next progression point. It's not a bad thing per se, but it's appreciated when something more as well. Maybe they'll use the default trainer as the rival? It would be fun seeing the opposite trainer again.
Satoshi & Touko
Peanuts aren't just a nut.
Hey, something that's nagging me a weensy bit right now...
In the "Confirmed Info" thread, it is stated that these games are not meant to be entry games, and is for the longtime fans to look forward to.
But in the Pokemon Direct, it says between 3:51 and 4:07, that the games are for the veteran trainers, the new trainers who started with LGPE, and those looking to become trainers for the first time. So, in other words, everyone apparently.
In the "Confirmed Info" thread, it is stated that these games are not meant to be entry games, and is for the longtime fans to look forward to.
But in the Pokemon Direct, it says between 3:51 and 4:07, that the games are for the veteran trainers, the new trainers who started with LGPE, and those looking to become trainers for the first time. So, in other words, everyone apparently.
Ducolamia
SAYYYY WHAT???
To be fair, despite saying that in the direct, Pokemon's general audience is aimed towards everyone no matter where they come from. That's part of the appeal. It would be odd of them to ignore a majority of their audience for the sake of hardcore players.
This isn't me saying the games won't be more challenging or harder, but I think it's important to remember they have to keep some sort of general appeal to sell the games. This isn't like Dark Souls in which that game clearly appeals to those who wants a challenge. Pokemon, in a sense, is still Pokemon and the beauty of that is that anyone can pick it up and play.
Dragalge
"Orange" Magical Girl
With Hau, his friendliness actually gets somewhat challenged by Gladion even if he still goes on being a happy fellow which not only makes Hau more likable but Gladion too. Tensions/disagreements in a relationship like that is always good to see between characters not named the player (made a bit better in USUM).
I would love a Hugh like rival minus a goal that’s basically “I want to save my sister’s Purrloin!!” (still thought he was a great dude!). Someone like Barry could work too.
I would love a Hugh like rival minus a goal that’s basically “I want to save my sister’s Purrloin!!” (still thought he was a great dude!). Someone like Barry could work too.
BCVM22
Well-Known Member
You should collectively take the lot of this to mean approximately nothing. All the original quote was meant to convey was that Sword & Shield will be less basic and more traditional than LGP/E.