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Does this idea seem at all plausible to you?


  • Total voters
    189

dss_live

Water and Fairy-type master
It's not a big reach and this is why: Pokemon GO is the single most profitable piece of software in the history of Pokemon, more so than most of the mainline games combined. And it did not have 90% of Pokemon, and still doesn't have breeding, abilities, egg moves, etc. It did not even have battling or trading for years!. And it still was the most successful "game" of all time.

Then we have Let's Go, which was heavily inspired by GO and had watered down mechanics and still made just as much as mainline games, and even more than Gen 5. It lacked abilities because of Reasons! Gen 1 didn't have abilities, so let's be consistent! Except OR/AS remade Gen 3, and still had physical/special move splits, and other Gen 4-5 mechanics, because they were supposed to be standards of the franchise moving forward.

Also, you dismiss Let's Go as a spinoff that holds no influence over the mainline games, and yet many fans and even Game Freak themselves insisted that Let's Go was more of a proper title than a side spinoff.

Let's Go could have let you transfer other Pokemon, but it was a conscious decision not to. And now, Sword and Shield is making the same walk-back. And Sword/Shield was promised to be the hardcore-appeasing game.

Yes, Go was widely popular and inspired let's go, which sold really well. But where are the signs that SwSh is a watered down, dumbed down game? Let's be realistic here, when you start up pokemon shield/sword, it will play the same way any mainline game plays for most people (usually transferring pokemon isn't available early). None of the way the game plays has shown any signs of being effected by Let's Go. It's only when you would normally start to transfer , that you hit a wall, as that's not fully possible anymore. But still, that alone does not show an influence from Go and Let's Go. If more information comes out and it does show those signs , you could have a point. But so far, gameplay remains largely unchanged (or improved even) from the mainline games. That is why it's a reach to me.

And i dont "dismiss" thm as spin offs, that is exactly what they are. Very succesfull spin offs, but still what it is. And it's popularity wasn't because of it limited pokemon, it was because it's casual playstyle and nostalgia.

The decision making process behind the two was very different tho. Pokemon Let's go was a modern take on the old yellow game, they purposefully kept it to the original pokemon to hit that nostalgia string for old fans who came back due to pokemon go. The reason behind whats happening in SwSh, regarldess of whether you find it an adequate reasoning or not, that plays no part, is completely different. It wasn't made because of pokemon let's go.

I'll happily eat my words if there comes some actual prove that the game took influence from Go/ Let's go and got made much much more casual. But till then, i think it's very much a reach.
 

dss_live

Water and Fairy-type master
I myself consider Let's Go to be a part of the main series, but in it's own separate subseries. I believe that there will be more Let's Go games in the future.

I can definately agree with that one. And i do think there will be more let's go's in the future, they stated that if they turned out to be popular they'd become their own series, and they definately sold well. The fact that they mentioned having it become it's own series only furthers my believe that they're not gonna dumb down the main series to match let's go. Why would they make the current main series the same as the new series they're trying to get going? wouldnt make any sense, imo
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
Yes, Go was widely popular and inspired let's go, which sold really well. But where are the signs that SwSh is a watered down, dumbed down game? Let's be realistic here, when you start up pokemon shield/sword, it will play the same way any mainline game plays for most people (usually transferring pokemon isn't available early). None of the way the game plays has shown any signs of being effected by Let's Go. It's only when you would normally start to transfer , that you hit a wall, as that's not fully possible anymore. But still, that alone does not show an influence from Go and Let's Go. If more information comes out and it does show those signs , you could have a point. But so far, gameplay remains largely unchanged (or improved even) from the mainline games. That is why it's a reach to me.

And i dont "dismiss" thm as spin offs, that is exactly what they are. Very succesfull spin offs, but still what it is. And it's popularity wasn't because of it limited pokemon, it was because it's casual playstyle and nostalgia.

The decision making process behind the two was very different tho. Pokemon Let's go was a modern take on the old yellow game, they purposefully kept it to the original pokemon to hit that nostalgia string for old fans who came back due to pokemon go. The reason behind whats happening in SwSh, regarldess of whether you find it an adequate reasoning or not, that plays no part, is completely different. It wasn't made because of pokemon let's go.

I'll happily eat my words if there comes some actual prove that the game took influence from Go/ Let's go and got made much much more casual. But till then, i think it's very much a reach.

From Masuda himself

These games aren’t spin-offs. These are core Pokemon titles. As for whether we would make other games that could connect to Pokemon GO, that will depend on how the games are received
Let's Go was received quite well.

As for whether Sword and Shield will feel indistinguishable to hardcore players, let me assure you that for the most hardcore fans out there, compatibility is the most important feature of them all, above abilities, above egg moves and battle items and split moves and anything else. Or at least it was.
 
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Mag Prime

The Pokemon Avenger
And by the way, them selling the bundle at $120 is insulting and just rubbing salt in the wounds.

I mean the original idea of the games was that some of the players buy one version, some players buy the other version and they are encouraged to trade for the exclusives. I get that many people buy both versions (I have done it a few times in the past myself) and it's up to each player to decide what to spend their money on.

That said... to within one week announce that you are going from the $4o handheld price tag to the $60 console price tag, spit in the face of the most loyal and hardcore fans and then expect those same hardcore fans to buy the same game twice and at full price without even having the courtesy to knock off like 10% just to maintain the illusion that you aren't a greedy jerk. Man, the sheer arrogance.
 

dss_live

Water and Fairy-type master
From Masuda himself


Let's Go was received quite well.

As for whether Sword and Shield will feel indistinguishable to hardcore players, let me assure you that for the most hardcore fans out there, compatibility is the most important feature of them all, above abilities, above egg moves and battle items and split moves and anything else. Or at least it was.

Honestly, it's semantics, my point was they would be their own side "whatever you want to call them" that if proven popular could become their own series alongsde the main series. Whether tehy name it spin off, or second series of core games, it comes down to the same point.
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
Honestly, it's semantics, my point was they would be their own side "whatever you want to call them" that if proven popular could become their own series alongsde the main series. Whether tehy name it spin off, or second series of core games, it comes down to the same point.
Honestly, I'm going to have to call you out here. Moving the goal post isn't gonna cut it, because this isn't just semantics. This is what the most influential figure within Game Freak thinks about Let's Go, and the future of Pokemon. He honestly thinks that he can market Sword and Shield as an appeasement to hardcore players without one of the most important standards that kept hardcore fans loyal for decades. I'm not going to trot out every single thing Masuda has said over the last few years, but every single one of them is very upsetting to hardcore players.

And what happens if Let's Go becomes the template for all remakes moving forward? Would you be okay with a "Let's Go! Mountainous Sinnoh"?
 
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neo_senku

Well-Known Member
And by the way, them selling the bundle at $120 is insulting and just rubbing salt in the wounds.

I mean the original idea of the games was that some of the players buy one version, some players buy the other version and they are encouraged to trade for the exclusives. I get that many people buy both versions (I have done it a few times in the past myself) and it's up to each player to decide what to spend their money on.

That said... to within one week announce that you are going from the $4o handheld price tag to the $60 console price tag, spit in the face of the most loyal and hardcore fans and then expect those same hardcore fans to buy the same game twice and at full price without even having the courtesy to knock off like 10% just to maintain the illusion that you aren't a greedy jerk. Man, the sheer arrogance.


Do we even know if there is gonna be a steel book that comes with the double pack like with the Sun/moon series or are they gonna pull the crap they pulled with lets go where the steelbook comes with the games months after it releases?
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
Do we even know if there is gonna be a steel book that comes with the double pack like with the Sun/moon series or are they gonna pull the crap they pulled with lets go where the steelbook comes with the games months after it releases?
The double pack does include a steelbook. It's gold, and features the two mascots on each side of the case.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
What do you guys think of the battling, both against trainers and in the wild so far?
 
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Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
If space is an issue as they claim it to be, then yeah, it damn well would be worth creating one. Furthermore, this isn't nearly the only instance of sloppy or inefficient programming found in recent Pokemon games (there's a few particularly egregious gems such as this), so if cart space is truly the reason why they're excluding certain Pokemon, their own poor programming practices are at least partially if not mostly to blame.
Just wanted to give you this link. It's also about the Lillie copies in the reply chain of the embedded tweet.
 

Metagross8

Ribbon Maniac
Ok, let's move the conversation away from Let's Go, the future of Pokémon and Game Freak.

What do you guys think of the battling, both against trainers and in the wild so far?

Pushes the independent thought alarm

EDIT: More to the point, I don't think the future of pokemon/Let's Go thing is off-topic, IMO. It's connected to what we've been presented. I've been enjoying reading through it myself.

(edit edit: thanks for responding, deleting the response, then warning me. Not too fussed but that's just how I feel the attempt to change the course of discussion was like)
 
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WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Fair enough. Just work on keeping things cool. Debate is fine, but not to the point where it becomes more like an argument.
 

Metagross8

Ribbon Maniac
Either way I've said my piece and thoughts on this whole matter. Really disliking it, none of the arguments defending it seem particularly appealing, and I'm overall very disappointed at GF. I think I'll go back to lurking for a few years.
 

dss_live

Water and Fairy-type master
Honestly, I'm going to have to call you out here. Moving the goal post isn't gonna cut it, because this isn't just semantics. This is what the most influential figure within Game Freak thinks about Let's Go, and the future of Pokemon. He honestly thinks that he can market Sword and Shield as an appeasement to hardcore players without one of the most important standards that kept hardcore fans loyal for decades. I'm not going to trot out every single thing Masuda has said over the last few years, but every single one of them is very upsetting to hardcore players.

And what happens if Let's Go becomes the template for all remakes moving forward? Would you be okay with a "Let's Go! Mountainous Sinnoh"?

I'm not moving any goalposts. I'm calling it semantics because to me any pokemon game that isn't the main series is a "spin off" regardless of whether it's a secondary core series or not. You're getting hung up over a word and ignoring the context of whats said. To add to that, they have stated when Let's go came out that it would be a potential series alongside the main games. There is zero logic to make it it's own series and then replace the main series with it aswell. The fact that they knew to announce SwSh at the same time shows they know both games draw in different audiences. Further establishing they're not gonna abolish the main series when they can make a more casual series alongside it.

And despite being upset about certain decisions made by gamefreak that affect the "most hardcore" that of itself still does not actually support your point that Let's go will unfluence the main series in a negative way when the only change that's been announced , yes a negative one, not arguing that, wasn't even because let's go to begin with. Dislike what gamefreak is doing, if you feel that way, you're allowed to feel that way. But that of itself doesn't mean it's all because let's go. The idea that the games are gonna be turned into let's go games is overreacting. You see one change and suddenly it's doom all around. Let's at the very least wait for some actual proof that it's happening before jumping the gun.

Edit: Saw the now deleted post and i'll respect it even if it was deleted. I've said what i ahd to say, it is probably best to move on anyway. Don't think there is any more to be said anyway :) so i'll just move to other topics.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
They'd have to sacrifice model quality to shove 'em all in and have the game run smoothly

Sorta like what Super Mystery Dungeon did compared to Magnagate

Uncompressed models take up a lot more space and it's impressive that they managed to do so with XY through USM

Really could've programmed it better so that every area didn't have repetitive models, like how there's a different Lillie model for every area of the game instead of using only two (normal and Z-Powered)
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
I'm not moving any goalposts. I'm calling it semantics because to me any pokemon game that isn't the main series is a "spin off" regardless of whether it's a secondary core series or not. You're getting hung up over a word and ignoring the context of whats said. To add to that, they have stated when Let's go came out that it would be a potential series alongside the main games. There is zero logic to make it it's own series and then replace the main series with it aswell. The fact that they knew to announce SwSh at the same time shows they know both games draw in different audiences. Further establishing they're not gonna abolish the main series when they can make a more casual series alongside it.

And despite being upset about certain decisions made by gamefreak that affect the "most hardcore" that of itself still does not actually support your point that Let's go will unfluence the main series in a negative way when the only change that's been announced , yes a negative one, not arguing that, wasn't even because let's go to begin with. Dislike what gamefreak is doing, if you feel that way, you're allowed to feel that way. But that of itself doesn't mean it's all because let's go. The idea that the games are gonna be turned into let's go games is overreacting. You see one change and suddenly it's doom all around. Let's at the very least wait for some actual proof that it's happening before jumping the gun.

Edit: Saw the now deleted post and i'll respect it even if it was deleted. I've said what i ahd to say, it is probably best to move on anyway. Don't think there is any more to be said anyway :) so i'll just move to other topics.

I won't argue further beyond this last rebuttal, but I do feel the need to respond once more.

I never claimed that the mainline games would become equally watered down as the Let's Go games (more that the lines would blur over time), so you are right in that regard. However, I do worry that Let's Go games will replace remakes of older regions. Let's Go Johto, Let's Go Sinnoh. I can see it happening, and it worries me.

More on topic with Sword and Shield, I firmly believe that because Pokemon GO succeeded without 100% compatibility and on the back of Gen 1, and since Let's Go succeeded without 100% compatibility and also on the back of Gen 1 (not to mention that X&Y succeeded off the [mega-evolved] back of Gen 1), that midway through development GF felt emboldened to decide Sword and Shield would release without 100% compatibility, but with Gen 1. Even if this is the only negative change to S&S, I still believe it was directly influenced by GO and Let's Go both. We just have to agree to disagree about this.

It's weird... it's almost like Game Freak imagines that this "hardcore" group of Pokemon fans are all genwunners.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
I won't argue further beyond this last rebuttal, but I do feel the need to respond once more.

I never claimed that the mainline games would become equally watered down as the Let's Go games (more that the lines would blur over time), so you are right in that regard. However, I do worry that Let's Go games will replace remakes of older regions. Let's Go Johto, Let's Go Sinnoh. I can see it happening, and it worries me.

More on topic with Sword and Shield, I firmly believe that because Pokemon GO succeeded without 100% compatibility and on the back of Gen 1, and since Let's Go succeeded without 100% compatibility and also on the back of Gen 1 (not to mention that X&Y succeeded off the [mega-evolved] back of Gen 1), that midway through development GF felt emboldened to decide Sword and Shield would release without 100% compatibility, but with Gen 1. Even if this is the only negative change to S&S, I still believe it was directly influenced by GO and Let's Go both.

It's weird... it's almost like Game Freak imagines that this "hardcore" group of Pokemon fans are all genwunners.
And competitive players.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
@Ulicies and @RileyXY1: You both bring up very good points. I'm worried about that too. That they seem to view a lot of fans as Gen 1 ones and are ones that are competitive players. Thing is, it's not the case. If this game ends up mostly catering to them, then it'll leave out a lot of other kinds of fans.
 
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