Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

But that's just it though, they haven't been permanently removed. It's more like they missed the bus; they're still coming, they just have to wait for the next bus.

This is quite unfounded. For all we know the games after Sword and Shield will be third versions for Galar with the same dex or a slightly larger but still mostly the same dex, just like what the Alola games did. I have very little confidence that my pokémon teams will be available in any game in the future. And I don't want that. I love Eldegoss and its new ability, I want to play that in doubles together with Tapu Bulu and maybe Serperior. But I don't know if there will be any game in the foreseeable future that supports both Tapu Bulu and Eldegoss, and that's a shame.

And to a lot of people, not too much to me, but to a lot of people, there is a sentimental part to it. Pokémon that they've had with them since Ruby and Sapphire, that they've gathered all the ribbons with, those pokémon may never get the opportunity to get a ribbon like the Galar league champion ribbon after collecting every single ribbon up till now. All the league champions, all the battle facilities, all the contests, everything.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

This is quite unfounded. For all we know the games after Sword and Shield will be third versions for Galar with the same dex or a slightly larger but still mostly the same dex, just like what the Alola games did. I have very little confidence that my pokémon teams will be available in any game in the future. And I don't want that. I love Eldegoss and its new ability, I want to play that in doubles together with Tapu Bulu and maybe Serperior. But I don't know if there will be any game in the foreseeable future that supports both Tapu Bulu and Eldegoss, and that's a shame.

And to a lot of people, not too much to me, but to a lot of people, there is a sentimental part to it. Pokémon that they've had with them since Ruby and Sapphire, that they've gathered all the ribbons with, those pokémon may never get the opportunity to get a ribbon like the Galar league champion ribbon after collecting dozens.

You won't have to ever worry about losing those pokemon so long as they're in Pokémon Home.

You can keep them there, where they'll be safe, and you can even play with the in minigames from time to time. Sure, you may not be able to traditionally battle them in Sword and Shield, but they won't be left out forever. All pokemon eventually return.

 

[Sulfurian]

The flame war started when on various social media sites called the fan outrage as entitled, whining, crying, and so on. Which of course caused everyone to bark at each other and gamefreak.

I think the large part of it is that those complaining have also had enough of the part of the fanbase that just buys anything with the Pokemon name, or shields (heh) gamefreak from any sort of negative or critical views on the last two generations.

A common ground example I can think of is the view of cosmetic DLC. One side doesn't care and spends their money anyway, the other tries to explain thats a terrible move that just promotes the company to increase the prices in the next game with lesser quality.

One side doesn't like getting called out, and the other is tired of people defending bad decisions, or this whole "try to understand" positions people throw out there.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

You won't have to ever worry about losing those pokemon so long as they're in Pokémon Home.

You can keep them there, where they'll be safe, and you can even play with the in minigames from time to time. Sure, you may not be able to traditionally battle them in Sword and Shield, but they won't be left out forever. All pokemon eventually return.

Have you even read my post? And I mean, really read it? And tried to understand my personal viewpoint? Because your post addressed nothing of my concerns.

 

[Mew2]

You know, people said the same thing about Let's GO. Half the fandom was enraged and upset, and refusing to buy the game. Yet the game still sold exceptionally well.

I do see that many people are upset, but I still feel such a phrase is an overreaction. Excluding avid Pokémon GO players, there are roughly 16 million Pokémon fans worldwide, possibly more. I think if 8 million fans were consistently vocal online, there would be far more traffic, and even more visibility. I give the outrage 1 million fans at best.

As for Joe, he has to remain non-partisan, as he is a webmaster of a news bulletin site, one recognized by Nintendo at that. He cannot risk the integrity of this site by voicing his own opinion through it. I'm sure he's made a tweet or two on his own personal account, but that's as far as it can go.

I think that the difference between the backlash that Let's Go got and what Sword and Shield is getting is the fact that the vocal parts of the fandom that were against it knew that there was a mainline game coming out that would have what they wanted. Well, Sw/Sh is that game, and it's removing some Pokémon and a core mechanic in Mega Evolution that people liked for what seems to be little to nothing in return. Dynamax is divisive at the moment and the animations look little to no better than what they were on the 3DS. And to make matters worse, this game is releasing on a home console; let me reiterate that: A HOME CONSOLE. While I know that eventually there will be too many Pokémon to fit in one game, the 3DS games could hold 800+ Pokémon with only some lag. And this is the OG 3DS, not the New 3DS. If the OG 3DS can handle 800 Pokémon, why can't the Switch, which is how many times more powerful than the 3DS? This just reeks of laziness and taking shortcuts, which is what has people so frustrated. After all, while I'm a fan of Gen 1, and started with Gen 1, I like Pokémon from other generations too, such as Donphan, Sceptile, Infernape, Serperior, Greninja, Aegislash, etcetera. What if they don't get in? Add to that the fact that Mega Evolution, which really helped two of my favorites in Charizard and Mewtwo, isn't in and that's why I canceled my pre-orders for the double pack and put it towards a game I'm getting in the near future. Also note that fans in Japan are angry about this as well, so I think that this is worse than the backlash against Let's Go. This is what fans were waiting for. And they have been sorely disappointed. And worse, depending on which Pokémon can get in, some Pokémon Go players won't be able to send their favorites to Galar, either. And this when other Nintendo franchises are pulling out all the stops with their games, such as with Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Compared to those games, and from what we've seen in upcoming releases like Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Super Mario Maker 2, and Animal Crossing: New Horizons, the shortcuts being taken with Sword and Shield are standing out that much more.

Edit: Now, there are things that can get me to pre-order the game once more, such as patches that would shore up the Galar dex and allow all Pokémon to be imported into the game and be playable, but until then, I'm saving my money. Also, one other thing that just popped into my mind: what if some of the Poké Ball Pokémon, or heck, even some playable Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate are not in the Galar dex? How weird would it be to have some Pokémon in Smash that are unusable in Pokémon Sword and Shield?

 

[Rainbowdashtheawesome]

This is quite unfounded. For all we know the games after Sword and Shield will be third versions for Galar with the same dex or a slightly larger but still mostly the same dex, just like what the Alola games did. I have very little confidence that my pokémon teams will be available in any game in the future. And I don't want that. I love Eldegoss and its new ability, I want to play that in doubles together with Tapu Bulu and maybe Serperior. But I don't know if there will be any game in the foreseeable future that supports both Tapu Bulu and Eldegoss, and that's a shame.

No, it's a perfectly logical theory. They said they intend for each game from now on to have an assortment of Pokemon from the old gens. They also said the decision was based on timing and spacing issues, meaning it's not like they just decided they didn't care about the Pokemon anymore, their hands were tied. They wouldn't leave any Pokemon behind if they could help it, so that gives them a real incentive to make sure all of the currently missing ones get added later. That especially includes Pokemon like the starters and legendaries; they probably won't include every single onenin every single game but we should definitely be able to see a fair number of them in each.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

No, it's a perfectly logical theory. They said they intend for each game from now on to have an assortment of Pokemon from the old gens. They also said the decision was based on timing and spacing issues, meaning it's not like they just decided they didn't care about the Pokemon anymore, their hands were tied. They wouldn't leave any Pokemon behind if they could help it, so that gives them a real incentive to make sure all of the currently missing ones get added later. That especially includes Pokemon like the starters and legendaries; they probably won't include every single onenin every single game but we should definitely be able to see a fair number of them in each.

If every game from now on only has a subset of the pokémon, even if those subsets together form the entirety of all pokémon, that still means that potentially all or most of my teams or the teams I'd like to run are out and won't be coming back (like that potential Tapu Bulu + Eldegoss combination). Perhaps there will be another game in gen 8 that features Tapu Bulu. Well guess what, because it was already in Galar, now Eldegoss is out, so I still can't run that combination. It's about the combinations for me. So many pokémon that are simply irreplaceable for strategies in teams because no other pokémon can do what they can do.

 

[dss_live]

The flame war started when on various social media sites called the fan outrage as entitled, whining, crying, and so on. Which of course caused everyone to bark at each other and gamefreak.

I think the large part of it is that those complaining have also had enough of the part of the fanbase that just buys anything with the Pokemon name, or shields (heh) gamefreak from any sort of negative or critical views on the last two generations.

A common ground example I can think of is the view of cosmetic DLC. One side doesn't care and spends their money anyway, the other tries to explain thats a terrible move that just promotes the company to increase the prices in the next game with lesser quality.

One side doesn't like getting called out, and the other is tired of people defending bad decisions, or this whole "try to understand" positions people throw out there.

The "flame war" didn't start because one side, it started because both sides lashed out at each other. Neither one of those sides is in the right.

What you're saying here is one side doesn't like that another side has a different opinion on things. People can spend their money however they please, and no matter how dissatisfied you are with the decision a company makes , it is not yours or anyone elses place to tell people what to do. We all are free to make our own choices. Yolu're free not to buy into what they're selling just as much as others are free to do so.

Neitehr side likes to be called out on their BS. And neither side is free from being called out when their claims lack proper evidence to back it up.

This isn't a "side A started it so side B reacted" type of situation, it's a very simple situation of people with opposing opinions trying to force their opinion down other peoples throat instead of accepting that , yes, people do have individual thoughts and are free to have those. Stand for yourself, don't make others do it for you. Speak your opinion, don't force it upon others. It's not that hard.

 

[BCVM22]

Dynamax is divisive at the moment

"Divisive" doesn't mean "some people are complaining about it." If that's the definition, then the entire franchise is now "divisive." Mega Evolution was "divisive" by that definition, as were Z-moves, and now people are keening at their omission. Which suggests that much of the time, people don't actually dislike much of what they're complaining about, it simply happens to be a convenient target.

Also, one other thing that just popped into my mind: what if some of the Poké Ball Pokémon, or heck, even some playable Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate are not in the Galar dex? How weird would it be to have some Pokémon in Smash that are unusable in Pokémon Sword and Shield?

What if? The two aren't related. It would mean nothing at all.

 

[Leonhart]

To be honest, while I'm still quite upset about Game Freak's decision to not program every Pokemon into Shield and Sword, I'm not really pleased with some of the fan reactions either, especially fans asking others to sign petitions. Someone wanted me to do that on another site, but I didn't like how pushy they were about the subject since I don't think petitions really work, anyway.

 

[BCVM22]

They definitely don't. An online petition is worth roughly the paper it's printed on (yep).

 

[TsengHyena]

How does patching in missing pokemon data hurt people who prefer not to transfer? Its entirely possible to not go against the theme of Pokemon, while not affecting the launch of Sword and Shield.

 

[Sulfurian]

The "flame war" didn't start because one side, it started because both sides lashed out at each other. Neither one of those sides is in the right.

What you're saying here is one side doesn't like that another side has a different opinion on things. People can spend their money however they please, and no matter how dissatisfied you are with the decision a company makes , it is not yours or anyone elses place to tell people what to do. We all are free to make our own choices. Yolu're free not to buy into what they're selling just as much as others are free to do so.

Neitehr side likes to be called out on their BS. And neither side is free from being called out when their claims lack proper evidence to back it up.

This isn't a "side A started it so side B reacted" type of situation, it's a very simple situation of people with opposing opinions trying to force their opinion down other peoples throat instead of accepting that , yes, people do have individual thoughts and are free to have those. Stand for yourself, don't make others do it for you. Speak your opinion, don't force it upon others. It's not that hard.

A company will listen to the profit they gain or lose. Petitions won't work but not buying the game will. Its frustrating when you don't agree with a game but because people don't care it won't matter in the end. All this outrage and it will still sell.

Gaming industry got so bad in the first place because consumers aren't smart with their money. "Pay to win" is our own creation, buying into corporations. Pokemon can get away with any decision they please and you'll have this annoying wall of people always there every generation.

 

[dss_live]

A company will listen to the profit they gain or lose. Petitions won't work but not buying the game will. Its frustrating when you don't agree with a game but because people don't care it won't matter in the end. All this outrage and it will still sell.

Gaming industry got so bad in the first place because consumers aren't smart with their money. "Pay to win" is our own creation, buying into corporations. Pokemon can get away with any decision they please and you'll have this annoying wall of people always there every generation.

Then be your own voice and don't buy it. But your dislike of certain things do not give you any right to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. I'm a heavily against pay2win in any game and i personally will not support that practice. But it is not in my right to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. I don't buy into games with p2w stuff, but i will not target those that do and berate them ovr their choice to do so.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Expecting home to be little more than a glorified Pokémon bank with one or two minor mini games is setting yourself up for disappointment.

After all, even in jail they let the inmates use an exercise yard. PokemonJail will be no different.

Oh I won't be disappointed as I've never transferred anything and no one pokemon will ever stop me from buying a game in my favorite series.

The fact is that again, we know nothing about home and the choice to put anything in there is an entirely personal one. Jail is forced, no one chooses to go there.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

I think the main issue here has less to do with the National PokéDex being cut from Sword & Shield (because we all knew it was going to happen at some point) and more to do with Nintendo / Game Freak's refusal to meet everyone's expectations of the Pokémon video game franchise which is already a daunting task in itself. Instead of keeping certain features that worked such as the Vs. Seeker and Super Training, they end up removing them by adding in new gimmicks that weren't as useful. It even got to the point where the adventures themselves have become less of a challenge compared to how it was in the past. It's clear to me now that with a new Nintendo Switch title currently in development known as "Town", that they're tired of making new Pokémon games.

Worst case scenario is that everyone's going to boycott Sword & Shield to play competitively on Pokémon Showdown since it will supposedly have all 800+ Pokémon from the National PokéDex including all the new Galar region Pokémon which is supposed to include Mega Evolution, Z-Moves, and Dynamax. In other words you'll have two separate meta's one that includes the National PokéDex and the other that doesn't which has been cherry picked by Nintendo / Game Freak themselves. To be fair the official retail games have been losing money since Gen 5 when Online Battle Simulators for Pokémon were first introduced. Why pay a $60 price tag for a game that you can literally play for free online that has the same graphic capabilities as the Nintendo Switch?

 

[Orphalesion]

Why pay a $60 price tag for a game that you can literally play for free online that has the same graphic capabilities as the Nintendo Switch?

Because I don't like to play competitively and my main interest in Pokemon is playing through the single player campaign?

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Because I don't like to play competitively and my main interest in Pokemon is playing through the single player campaign?

Eh, fair enough. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[TsengHyena]

Losing a massive chunk of the roster...I'd like to think the post game would be significantly increased. With no regional dex, its unlikely after the Elite Four we'd have any new pokemon to catch barring any legendaries. What would they add that could replace what was lost?

 

[Pokemon Fan]

Losing a massive chunk of the roster...I'd like to think the post game would be significantly increased. With no regional dex, its unlikely after the Elite Four we'd have any new pokemon to catch barring any legendaries. What would they add that could replace what was lost?

We have no idea how much of the roster is not in the game. It could be a massive chunk or it could be like 20%. Plus there have been several games where quite a few even non-legendary pokemon were not available until the postgame (heck, in gen 2 you couldn't even get Houndour until after you beat the Elite 4).