Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]

[PrinceOfFacade]

Have you even read my post? And I mean, really read it? And tried to understand my personal viewpoint? Because your post addressed nothing of my concerns.

Actually, I think I may have quoted the wrong post. lol Not sure how, though.


EDIT: Nah, I quoted the right post. I was referring more so to the sentimental part. You may not be able to play with them, but at least you can still keep them, and have them safely stored for potential future games. Eventually, you'll be able to play with them again.

 

[TsengHyena]

We have no idea how much of the roster is not in the game. It could be a massive chunk or it could be like 20%. Plus there have been several games where quite a few even non-legendary pokemon were not available until the postgame (heck, in gen 2 you couldn't even get Houndour until after you beat the Elite 4).

Thats why gen 2 games were pretty bad.

Most regional dexes are about 400-500ish, somewhere between there. We may get 500, or 550 if lucky, but I don't forsee it being higher than that. They wouldn't have made a big deal about it unless its a significant amount.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

I think that the difference between the backlash that Let's Go got and what Sword and Shield is getting is the fact that the vocal parts of the fandom that were against it knew that there was a mainline game coming out that would have what they wanted. Well, Sw/Sh is that game, and it's removing some Pokémon and a core mechanic in Mega Evolution that people liked for what seems to be little to nothing in return. Dynamax is divisive at the moment and the animations look little to no better than what they were on the 3DS. And to make matters worse, this game is releasing on a home console; let me reiterate that: A HOME CONSOLE. While I know that eventually there will be too many Pokémon to fit in one game, the 3DS games could hold 800+ Pokémon with only some lag. And this is the OG 3DS, not the New 3DS. If the OG 3DS can handle 800 Pokémon, why can't the Switch, which is how many times more powerful than the 3DS? This just reeks of laziness and taking shortcuts, which is what has people so frustrated. After all, while I'm a fan of Gen 1, and started with Gen 1, I like Pokémon from other generations too, such as Donphan, Sceptile, Infernape, Serperior, Greninja, Aegislash, etcetera. What if they don't get in? Add to that the fact that Mega Evolution, which really helped two of my favorites in Charizard and Mewtwo, isn't in and that's why I canceled my pre-orders for the double pack and put it towards a game I'm getting in the near future. Also note that fans in Japan are angry about this as well, so I think that this is worse than the backlash against Let's Go. This is what fans were waiting for. And they have been sorely disappointed. And worse, depending on which Pokémon can get in, some Pokémon Go players won't be able to send their favorites to Galar, either. And this when other Nintendo franchises are pulling out all the stops with their games, such as with Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Compared to those games, and from what we've seen in upcoming releases like Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Super Mario Maker 2, and Animal Crossing: New Horizons, the shortcuts being taken with Sword and Shield are standing out that much more.

Edit: Now, there are things that can get me to pre-order the game once more, such as patches that would shore up the Galar dex and allow all Pokémon to be imported into the game and be playable, but until then, I'm saving my money. Also, one other thing that just popped into my mind: what if some of the Poké Ball Pokémon, or heck, even some playable Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate are not in the Galar dex? How weird would it be to have some Pokémon in Smash that are unusable in Pokémon Sword and Shield?

Well, this is what I can say:

One thing Masuda stated at E3 is that he doesn't like keeping fans waiting too long for the next game. Perhaps, instead of shouting at Game Freak about the issue, you all can offer the solution. Tell them you're okay with waiting. Let them know you're willing to wait however long it takes to get the full dex in.

If you shout that loud enough, they might listen.

(For the record, I'm being rather sincere. There's a certain way to do things. Honestly, I don't think the outrage is helping to change their mind. )

 

[SpookyMimikyu]

What I'm expecting for the post-game? Barring whatever battle facility there is, completing the regional Dex, and the option of Shiny Hunting, the most probable answer is a post-game area. Not like along the lines of Kanto like in GSC and HGSS, but something similar the portion of Sinnoh that's separate from the mainland, and capturing whatever the third Legendary is to Zacian and Zamazenta. We of course may also see yet another post-game quest, that seems to be the trend ever since ORAS released.

And this is more of a hope than anything, but with the Galar region's intense love of Pokemon battling as a sport as much as North American loves Amercian football and Europe adores standard football*, maybe there might be a chance of getting something like the Pokemon World Tournament? Maybe not exactly like it in that we can fight NPCs from past games, judging by the struggle to port over incompatible Pokemon, but hopefully we will be able to fight unique NPCs in a tournament-esque battle set that's not entirely focused on whether or not you're a good competitive battler, just that you know what you're doing without it being easy. Something that might satisfy casual fans with the most likely easiness of the main campaign and the latter satisfying people who were used to the pre-Gen VI difficulty in the main campaigns of those games without requiring 5 IV Pokemon. It's not likely to happen, but I thought it would be fun to put that hypothetical idea out there.

 

[Morty05]

But that's just it though, they haven't been permanently removed. It's more like they missed the bus; they're still coming, they just have to wait for the next bus.

Except GF said this will be standard practice after Sword and Shield

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Actually, I think I may have quoted the wrong post. lol Not sure how, though.


EDIT: Nah, I quoted the right post. I was referring more so to the sentimental part. You may not be able to play with them, but at least you can still keep them, and have them safely stored for potential future games. Eventually, you'll be able to play with them again.

Then how is it you are entirely unable to understand it? Is it just a lack of trying? Or am I seriously being that bad at describing my issues? Like, eventually can take a very very long time. And paying for potentially decades for Home and Home's successors on the successors of the Switch just for that eventuality of my favourite team combinations being possible again because it would simply take that long until certain combinations of pokémon appear again. Like, when will the next game be that features Minun + Suicune + Sceptile + Xurkitree + mega evolution? I don't know, but seeing as it has two legendaries from different regions it might take a very very long time. Xurkitree may be replaced by Tapu Koko, but that would be a significant downgrade in that team and Tapu Koko has an equally slim chance of being featured in the same region as Suicune as Xurkitree does. And Minun can't be replaced. It is the only pokémon in existence with the combination of Entrainment and Volt Absorb. Nothing else in the history of pokémon has ever had that combination. Like, eventually there probably will be a game with Minun in it. How big are the odds that all those other pokémon also happen to be available in that particular game? Simple probability mathematics tell me they're very low. You can keep on spouting your 'you can store them because eventually I'll be able to play with them again', but with no way of knowing how long it will take, is it worth it to keep paying for decades for a cloud storage just for that eventuality? I don't think it is.

I want to play Eldegoss with Tapu Bulu. When will they be featured together in a game? I don't know. Tapu Bulu likely won't be in Galar. So it could take a long time. I suppose I could replace Tapu Bulu with Tsareena which is in Galar, but Tsareena has far worse stats and no way of boosting its attack stat because Z-Splash doesn't exist in Galar, unlike Tapu Bulu which has options like Bulk Up or Rototiller. Lurantis might work, but it might also not be in Galar, it's not confirmed yet, and it's also awfully slow.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I think the main issue here has less to do with the National PokéDex being cut from Sword & Shield (because we all knew it was going to happen at some point) and more to do with Nintendo / Game Freak's refusal to meet everyone's expectations of the Pokémon video game franchise which is already a daunting task in itself. Instead of keeping certain features that worked such as the Vs. Seeker and Super Training, they end up removing them by adding in new gimmicks that weren't as useful. It even got to the point where the adventures themselves have become less of a challenge compared to how it was in the past. It's clear to me now that with a new Nintendo Switch title currently in development known as "Town", that they're tired of making new Pokémon games.

Worst case scenario is that everyone's going to boycott Sword & Shield to play competitively on Pokémon Showdown since it will supposedly have all 800+ Pokémon from the National PokéDex including all the new Galar region Pokémon which is supposed to include Mega Evolution, Z-Moves, and Dynamax. In other words you'll have two separate meta's one that includes the National PokéDex and the other that doesn't which has been cherry picked by Nintendo / Game Freak themselves. To be fair the official retail games have been losing money since Gen 5 when Online Battle Simulators for Pokémon were first introduced. Why pay a $60 price tag for a game that you can literally play for free online that has the same graphic capabilities as the Nintendo Switch?

Lol, you do realize the competitive battling community is the minority in pokemon games right?? Most people do play just for the game itself, not just to get pokemon to battle.

 

[Rainbowdashtheawesome]

Then be your own voice and don't buy it. But your dislike of certain things do not give you any right to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. I'm a heavily against pay2win in any game and i personally will not support that practice. But it is not in my right to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. I don't buy into games with p2w stuff, but i will not target those that do and berate them ovr their choice to do so.

Get off your high horse already. Have you ever once stopped to consider that maybe it's not about consumers being bad with money? That maybe they realize this is more expensive than it should be but they just don't care? I don't care that they cut some stuff out; I'll be perfectly happy with what IS in the game instead of complaining about what isn't. This is no different than any other hobby. Whether your hobby is collecting trading cards, working on motorcycles, making birdhouses, or playing video games, it's not about how much money you spend; it's about how much fun you get out of it.

 

[TsengHyena]

(For the record, I'm being rather sincere. There's a certain way to do things. Honestly, I don't think the outrage is helping to change their mind. )

They are unlikely to change their mind either way since Let's Go and Go has had a chilling effect on Gamefreak. Though its better to be speak up and not change anything, than to be silent and still not change anything.

 

[Rainbowdashtheawesome]

Except GF said this will be standard practice after Sword and Shield

Exactly. Each new game will have some of the old Pokemon, but it's not going to be the same group every single time. Some fan favorites like Tyranitar most likely will be, but all the ones that aren't fan favorites will be shuffled around over time. They'll probably make an effort to include every single species over the course of every 2 or 3 dexes.

For example, say Yamask doesn't make the cut; I have absolutely no doubt that they would then include Yamask in the next game because it missed this one.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Then how is it you are entirely unable to understand it? Is it just a lack of trying? Or am I seriously being that bad at describing my issues?

You are being waaaaaaay too belligerent. Calm down there, man. lol

Like, eventually can take a very very long time. And paying for potentially decades for Home and Home's successors on the successors of the Switch just for that eventuality of my favourite team combinations being possible again because it would simply take that long until certain combinations of pokémon appear again.

Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, mate.

'Decades,' at minimum, is 20 years. A generation is released every three to four years. That's at least 5 generations-worth of games. Do you truly believe it will take 5 generations for a particular pokemon to return? I don't even think it's going to take 5 generations for the National Dex to return.

Like, when will the next game be that features Minun + Suicune + Sceptile + Xurkitree + mega evolution? I don't know, but seeing as it has two legendaries from different regions it might take a very very long time. Like, when will the next game be that features Minun + Suicune + Sceptile + Xurkitree + mega evolution? I don't know, but seeing as it has two legendaries from different regions it might take a very very long time. Xurkitree may be replaced by Tapu Koko, but that would be a significant downgrade in that team and Tapu Koko has an equally slim chance of being featured in the same region as Suicune as Xurkitree does. And Minun can't be replaced. It is the only pokémon in existence with the combination of Entrainment and Volt Absorb. Nothing else in the history of pokémon has ever had that combination.

That type of precise thinking is only setting you up for failure. It's also a clear indication of the flaw of "having it all." When you have everything, you essentially have nothing. You become blind to the vast bountiful plethora around you. I see why so many are lamenting over particular pokemon. Fans have gotten so used to having the entire series roster at their disposal, they've basically ignored it. They clung to the few pokemon they wanted, not caring to seek out others because the few they wanted were always there. They didn't realize just how bountiful the National Dex was until they no longer had it. It's a classic case of "not loving your water until your well runs dry."

In your case, your lament over that precise combination of pokemon is, quite frankly, of your own doing. My only suggestion for you is: branch out. Find other pokemon to love. Minun may be the only pokemon with that combination, but it's not the only pokemon in the world. Move forward, and devise a new team.


I will admit, though, that it is relatively easy for me to move forward from previous teams, because I enjoy creating new teams and finding new strategies. Doing so has also helped me find new pokemon to play with. I have literally hundreds of pokemon that I enjoy playing with, so even if my favorites - like Spiritomb, Jynx, Aegislash, and Grumpig - might not make the cut, I know there are many others - like Milotic, Mudsdale, Togekiss, and Golurk - that will.

 

[Chaos Emperor]

Then be your own voice and don't buy it. But your dislike of certain things do not give you any right to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. I'm a heavily against pay2win in any game and i personally will not support that practice. But it is not in my right to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do. I don't buy into games with p2w stuff, but i will not target those that do and berate them ovr their choice to do so.

This. This is about all people can really do to try to make change happen. If some Pokemon not being available (even though they’ll be kept safe and sound in Pokemon bank/home) is really that much of a game breaker (pun intended) then just don’t buy the game.

If sales dip enough they’ll notice and take action, though given it’s Pokemon even if it only sold like 2 million it’s probably still make a profit. But seeing how let's go pikachu/eevee sold around 10 million so far I expect sw/sh to sell similar numbers regardless of controversy; after all mega evos were controversial when they were first revealed now apparently it’s indispensable, same with z-moves, so I’m sure Dynamax will fall into the same category after release.

And just cause some people aren’t as up in arms over something doesn’t mean they’re “part of the problem” or trying to protect game freak from criticism; it means it just doesn’t bother them enough to get so worked up, or maybe they’re waiting for more info (we still don’t know for sure which Pokemon won’t make it after all), or any number of factors.

And attacking fans who aren’t on your “side” isn’t gonna magically convince them to agree; no it’s more likely gonna breed resentment for not respecting their right to have their own opinion. I understand why some are upset but just because I don’t share said anger doesn’t mean I’m enabling game freak to be “lazy”.

Remember game freak is also working on another game for switch currently called Town. Meaning their work force is divided between that and sw/sh; I know Pokemon is their biggest game without question but does that mean they can’t do anything else? With this in mind having to divide workforce between these games means they probably lacked the man power to implement all Pokemon in these games. But now that I’ve aid this those who are upset are probably gonna demand game freak cancel Town so that group can fix this “tragedy” cause muh childhood. Spoiler: if u were a child during gen 3/4 u ain’t a child anymore.

At the end of the day, money talks bull**** walks, so if this is really some sin against humanity then don’t buy the game, but also don’t hold a grudge against those who do decide to buy it.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

If sales dip enough they’ll notice and take action, though given it’s Pokemon even if it only sold like 2 million it’s probably still make a profit. But seeing how let's go pikachu/eevee sold around 10 million so far I expect sw/sh to sell similar numbers regardless of controversy; after all mega evos were controversial when they were first revealed now apparently it’s indispensable, same with z-moves, so I’m sure Dynamax will fall into the same category after release.

This is a very fine point.

I remember quite a few remarking how they felt mega evolution was stupid, and just a mirror of Digimon. Even I said it was stupid. Cut to two years later, and I was asking for a Mega Jynx and Mega Milotic. We do learn to love the things we hate.

I agree that people will also fall for Dynamaxing as they play Sword and Shield, and possibly become equally sad when it's taken away.

 

[Rainbowdashtheawesome]

I'm going to be honest, part of me wants to preorder a second copy of one or both of the games just to spite the people who are all gung-ho about boycotting it.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Well, this is what I can say:

One thing Masuda stated at E3 is that he doesn't like keeping fans waiting too long for the next game. Perhaps, instead of shouting at Game Freak about the issue, you all can offer the solution. Tell them you're okay with waiting. Let them know you're willing to wait however long it takes to get the full dex in.

If you shout that loud enough, they might listen.

(For the record, I'm being rather sincere. There's a certain way to do things. Honestly, I don't think the outrage is helping to change their mind. )

They can't. Pokémon isn't just the games, and it's not like younger kids are going to know or care about the cuts made to the Dex. And they're the ones who spend the most money through plush toys and merch like that that parents and grandparents buy for them.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Found an interesting post on reddit regarding Japanese opinions on the National Dex cut:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/c187sz/japanese_opinion_regarding_national_dex_cut/

People here in Japan are very angry about this also. This is a huge deal for two reasons, the first reason is that in Japan we are rarely vocal about our opinions because we don't like to start conflict. If we are very passionate about something and tell people our opinion publicly, it must be very important. Pokemon is a very popular video game series in Japan and a lot of people care about it. We want Gamefreak and Nintendo to put as much effort into these games as they can to make it the best quality game it can be.

They could have definitely added all of the Pokemon and had no real reason to cut them. The Switch can definitely handle 1000+ Pokemon models, it is much more powerful than the 3ds and that could handle 800+ Pokemon plus their walking/running animations. They already had every old Pokemon model from Sun and Moon to use and just had to update it graphic wise. Plus they already had the 151 Kanto models finished in Let's Go.

They could have put Sword & Shield as a priority and had the best team working on the game but they didn't, instead they side lined Pokemon in favor of a new game and had their secondary team developing Pokemon. They didn't hire enough people to work on the game and treated it like it wasn't important.

The second reason this is a problem, is that when they realized they weren't going to have enough time to update every Pokemon model and put it into the game, they chose not to hire more people and do it. Instead they came up with an unconvincing excuse all so that they wouldn't have to spend any extra time, money, or effort into developing the game. They figured they could get away with cutting content because they figured people would buy the game no matter what terrible decisions they make. They think saving money is more important than making a great game.

And corporate greed is one of the biggest issues people have with this whole thing. Gamefreak and Nintendo are planning on cutting a ton of Pokemon that people love from their future games because they don't want to bother hiring more people or spending more time and money to make the games fun for everyone. It's about more than just the fact that they are not including all of the Pokemon.

Gamefreak and Nintendo have been prioritising other games over Pokemon for a while now and have not been putting nearly enough effort into recent games.

They have been making games with unfinished areas like X and Y or no post game. They have started handing out legendary and mythical Pokemon as gifts instead of introducing them through in-game events that allow us to catch them in a unique area of the game and add to their lore.

And sometimes they add extra things in a version two of the game but we shouldn't have to pay for a whole other game just so we can get a finished version. But it seems like for every step forward they take another two steps back. Some people are pretending not to notice these these things and are still looking through rose colored glasses (I hope I used that English phrase right). The problem with that is that it allows Gamefreak to get way with almost anything, that is partially why there was a drop in quality.

They don't listen to their fans for the most part and that has to change. Pokemon is an important franchise that deserves a super high quality game with a ton of time and effort like Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey. The semi-open world areas of Sword & Shield look beautiful and the Pokemon in the over-world is a great new feature. But at the same time they got rid if very popular and creative things like Mega Evolution in favor of one time gimmicks. And if you like those gimmicks that is fine, but it shows that they are not listening to what the majority of fans want.

And now they are giving us an unfinished product that has even less than their 3ds games did. That is not acceptable and that is the biggest problem, Nintendo and Gamefreak think it is okay to put less effort into Pokemon games because we will buy them any way. People want to let them know that we are tired of our favorite games being set to the side . We want them to prioritize Pokemon for once. Sword & Shield deserve to be the best quality Pokemon games they can be. (Someone said I should put this on Reddit, I am a guy in Japan, so I can't use English websites. Anyone reading this can put this on that site or any other discussion site and add their own points if they want.)

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

They can't. Pokémon isn't just the games, and it's not like younger kids are going to know or care about the cuts made to the Dex. And they're the ones who spend the most money through plush toys and merch like that that parents and grandparents buy for them.

Then in that case, there no use in making a fuss.

Accept the loss and move on, be it with the games or without them.

 

[Mhov]

Gen 1/2 were also a lot of people’s childhood(myself included), yet those people’s mons ultimately got left behind. And in gen 2’s case those batteries have long since died meaning u can tEven go back to your 20 year old memories anymore. Those people survived they moved on, u will too especially considering bank/home means your Pokemon will always be available to u in some form even if it’s not in every single game going forward. And before u go “but muh childhood” here’s a secret I’ll let u in on; your not a child anymore and clinging to it like this puts u in genwunner territory.

Don't put words in my mouth and then belittle me with those words. I cling to whatever I want to cling to and I'm not in the wrong for doing so. It took a long time to assemble a living dex and I would like, or would've liked, to enjoy and use it in S&S, thank you very much. You can now call me a genwunner if you do so desire.

If unobtainable Pokemon has always been the case why is it only now people are getting so angry? Ya there’s still a way to get them in the end but some people maybe can only afford or convince their parents to buy only one of those games meaning if u want a Pokemon that’s not in that game your stuck. Online trading might be able to help but still cases like the oras megas or usum’s ultra beasts could surely be patched with today’s tech. And to get all Pokemon in swsh, we’ll need the same thing. I think it could be done but it definitely won’t be done before November.

I think other people already adressed why this got so out of hand. About the anger here. Yes I did play a role that and I shouldn't have openly called the fanbase and GF complacent and I shouldn't have implied fans have low standards. That was very vitriolic of me.

There have always been people who had (and have) problems with unobtainable Pokemon and yes, also for the reasons you mentioned. When I grew up link cables were a rare commodity in our class, very few of my classmates had one and if you weren't part of a friend group that had one, tough luck. For some people it was three generations of tough luck, if they didn't stop playing after gen 2. It shouldn't be a surprise people left the series for that and they weren't wrong for doing so.

XY and SM could also be patched, the 3DS was able to do so. GF didn't do that. It's not impossible they will do so now, but that's why people are saying there isn't much of a precedent. Who knows, perhaps they'll delay Pokemon Home to make a patch and release it in mid 2020 (or later) instead of early 2020. I would certainly appreciate that.

 

[Cloud5001]

A company will listen to the profit they gain or lose. Petitions won't work but not buying the game will. Its frustrating when you don't agree with a game but because people don't care it won't matter in the end. All this outrage and it will still sell.

Gaming industry got so bad in the first place because consumers aren't smart with their money. "Pay to win" is our own creation, buying into corporations. Pokemon can get away with any decision they please and you'll have this annoying wall of people always there every generation.

You say your not entitled, but then you say crap like this that makes it pretty obvious you have a stick up your ass. I'm ok with this change and that's my choice to make. You don't get to decide that for me, OR insult me or anyone else because they feel different. When I see something I don't like you bet your ass I'm going to say something, I'm not a fan of the Black and White Anime so I'm not afraid to get critical with Pokémon if I feel it's needed, however I don't feel this situation is that big of a deal and certainly won't allow it to effect whether or not I play a game from a series I love.

I posted here before that things are changing for Pokémon, whether you like it or not it's happening. All you can control here is how you choose to spend your money, Game Freak has to do whatever they want with the games they own. Whether you accept it or not is the only choice you get to make, I know making a game isn't easy. Look up the history of any game series and you'll see stories of devleopers running into huge problems at one point or another. I see where Game Freak is coming from so that's why I'm not bothered by this.​

 

[Ignition]

I'm going to be honest, part of me wants to preorder a second copy of one or both of the games just to spite the people who are all gung-ho about boycotting it.

That’s just as bad as the people who think their refusal to buy the games will massively impact the series. What does buying a second copy out of pettiness accomplish? I guarantee most, if not all, the people complaining will not give your purchase a second thought.