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Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoiler-Prone Area]

Discussion in 'Pokémon Sword & Shield Discussion' started by Kage-Pikachu, Jun 9, 2018.

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Does this idea seem at all plausible to you?

  1. Nah

    6.6%
  2. Yep

    10.2%
  3. I'm a kangaroo

    83.1%
  1. It's not actually as much about spite as it is about showing my support for GF. Also, I probably would have gotten a second copy anyway. It wouldn't be the first time; I did the same thing when Platinum was released, and there are many other Pokemon games I have multiple copies of (Platinum was the only one where I got both copies on release day). That's what happens when you can only have 1 save file and don't want to erase your progress every time you feel like going through the story again.
     
    wolf jani and Chaos Emperor like this.
  2. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    I'd like to point once again out that the ability to create a living dex has not been lost.

    You can still create and keep your dex, via Pokémon Home. It may not be in the exact way you'd like, but it's still possible. As for using the living dex, I can't imagine anyone using all 809+ pokemon, but if that's what you do then I'm sorry for your loss.
     
    wolf jani likes this.
  3. Mag Prime

    Mag Prime The Pokemon Avenger

    I liked Mega evolutions but not Z-moves when they were first released. However Z-moves are now tied to Ultra Necrozma which as far as I am concerned is a Pokemon I don't want to be cut out so unfortunately that means I don't want Z-moves to go. Not my fault that Gamefreak created a random gimmicky mechanic, tied it to a pokemon and then decided to drop it. At least when they dropped contests they gave an alternative evolution path for Milotic. Maybe they could make a new item called "Depleted Ultranecrozmium Z" or something which allows Necrozma to evolve during battle but not use the Z-move. That would allow them to bring it into future games without incorporating the whole mechanic of Z-moves. If the rumours are true and some pokemon get a different form when Dynamaxing then I'm not gonna want Dynamaxing gone either. That doesn't mean I like the idea of dynamaxing itself - it's a really dumb mechanic.

    There is this prevalent misconception, not only among pokemon fans or gamers in general, but pretty much everyone, where a lot of people think that criticizing something automatically makes you a hater. I grew up with Pokemon and the reason why I've been whining about this all week is because I love the franchise and it's truly painful to see it go into this direction. I'm not accusing you of anything personally as I haven't been following this conversation but there are a lot of people out there, including popular Youtubers, that are using language such as "haters", "echo chamber", "stupid" to refer to the people complaining about the games and the pokemon subreddit, and that is undermining the very effort to get them improved.

    Even if you don't feel strongly about the Dexit issue yourself please understand that GameFreak has already given plenty of indications that they are willing to move to a direction of minimum effort - maximum profit. They could hire more people to improve the quality of the games but they don't want to. They could sell the games at $40 like previous titles seeing as how the improvement from USUM to SwSh is hardly greater than from B2W2 to XY, yet not only do they not do that, they want to sell a full priced bundle for $120. Selling the same game twice with no discount. Monetising Pokemon Home. The changes from SM to USUM were possibly the smallest improvements in the history of the franchise and yet they sold them as new games at full price. They are trying to release one game per year now and the quality of the games is clearly suffering as a result.

    Discussions and arguments aren't always about "attacking" people. More often than not they are about convincing people. I understand you may have watched the trailer and the treehouse and formed the opinion that SwSh is a good looking game. But you may have not looked at pictures of SwSh side by side with pictures of other relevant games.

    Counter point: Here are some animations from old spinoff games that came out over a decade ago. Togepi, Sableye, Girafarig. Obviously the resolution is lower due to the limitations of N64/GC/Wii but look at the actual character those pokemon display. Each of them feels truly unique. Note that PBR had 493 pokemon in it which is probably on par with what SwSh is gonna have. For physical moves, the pokemon would actually go to the opponent to hit it instead of hopping in place and popping a sprite up to the receiving pokemon. A seperate studio called Genius Sonority worked on Colosseum, XD and PBR and they are still making pokemon spinoff games today. Why can GF not outsource the animations to Genius Sonority or another competent studio and focus their own development time on the story and environment? We were given "High Quality Animations" as the excuse for the pokemon cuts but that just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

    So it's not just about Dexit. There are objective criticisms of GF: The animations suck compared to 10 year old games and they used that as the excuse for removing pokemon. That's an obvious lie and everyone should be able to agree about that and hold them accountable. If they lie to you and you say "I don't care" then you are enabling them to continue doing so whether you want to or not.

    Well, if they want to branch out and make different games can they not hire more people? This is the top grossing franchise on the planet we are talking about. "Sorry, half the studio is gonna work on a different game" doesn't cut it as an excuse. We've given them plenty of money over the years. They can afford to hire more people to work on SwSh AND people to work on Town AND make a profit still.

    Sorry, not sorry. There are indie studios with 0.5% the budget of GF and the pokemon company that deliver great games with a lot of passion in them. Am I supposed to feel sorry for GF because they occasionally decide to make a non-pokemon game? How about don't bite off more than you can chew or plan better.

    Fair enough, you are the one who gets to spend your own money and if you still want to buy the games when they come out that's ultimately your choice. Nobody can force you to boycott GF. But we are trying to get either these or future games improved and you not buying them would help us in that cause so we are gonna argue our case. This is a forum about discussing those games and so we are well within our rights to tell you why we think buying those games is gonna make the next games worse.
     
    Mew2 likes this.
  4. Xuxuba

    Xuxuba Well-Known Member

    I really hate how some of you think it's okay to put words in someone else's mouth and then accuse the other of harassment for something you said.

    Honestly, you people are killing my hype way more than the ones who are actually criticizing GF's decisions.

    Just knowing that i am part of the same fanbase as some of you guys is enough to give me the heebie-jeebies.
     
  5. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    Well, if we're being entirely honest, there is no way to be certain if not buying the game would actually make a difference.

    The Pokémon series gains fans just as fast as it loses them, and when one person opts out, another opts in. This is ultimately how Let's GO - or any Pokémon game, to be honest - sold so well. There is always someone else there to take up the mantle.
     
    wolf jani likes this.
  6. Ignition

    Ignition “Go get ‘em, tiger!”

    In that case, yeah it’s fine (I’ve done that since BW)
     
    wolf jani likes this.
  7. Pokemon Fan

    Pokemon Fan Knuckle Trainer

    If Japanese fans are really up in arms about these issues then they may well have more of an impact than anything we do or say here, as they have more hope of their words being heard by Gamefreak. As others are noting, us not buying the games is not likely to have much of an effect either, as we are not anywhere near the majority of people who buy the games, and further, if a drop in sales does occur it may not be interpreted as being in response to removed pokemon or features but rather as a lack of interest in the games in general.
     
  8. You don't know what objective means, do you? It means factual and impartial, so anything that makes a judgement of quality like "it sucks" fails to qualify.

    And no, it is NOT an obvious lie. Not only do they have a lot more Pokemon now than when those older games came out, but they also have far more moves to animate, as well as plenty of different character models. That's just when looking at aesthetics, before even considering any of the battle mechanics, story, etc.
     
    wolf jani and Chaos Emperor like this.
  9. Mag Prime

    Mag Prime The Pokemon Avenger

    It's certainly true that hardcore fans (which I assume everyone on serebii is :D) are a minority compared to the total number of people who buy the games. However, it's an important minority. Hardcore fans are the ones who might buy both versions. They are the ones who keep the GTS alive for months/years after the release of the games. They are the ones most likely to spend more money on other pokemon merchandise, they are the ones who flood the internet with fanart and fanfics.

    And the same thing happening on the reddit is apparently happening in Japan which is a big deal for GF. So I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that we could have an impact.
     
  10. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    This is probably the worst argument in favor of Pokemon SwSh I've seen across all media so far, and it's brought up more times than I can count.

    No, of course no one is going to use every Pokemon in the series. That's an idiotic thought to even have in the first place.

    HOWEVER, the point you're all stepping over and brushing to the side is that for every one Pokemon I don't use and keep boxed or stored away, THOUSANDS of people would love to use that Pokemon. There's only just over 800 Pokemon available, and there's millions upon millions of people that play these games and call one of those 800+ Pokemon their favorite. Cut one Pokemon, and you're upsetting a lot of people because they can't use or bring their favorite Pokemon up to the newest adventure in the series.
     
  11. Poke Trainer J

    Poke Trainer J Well-Known Member

    Well it's not like filing a class action lawsuit against Nintendo / Game Freak will get them to listen to us since both the plaintiff(s) and the defendant(s) in that sort of situation are from two separate countries. You could sue Nintendo of America since they're located in the United States though that wouldn't do any good either since it doesn't affect Game Freak in the slightest due to being a Japanese company. Congress already has enough on their plate as it is with the ongoing lawsuit against loot boxes in video games and adding the #BringBackNationalDex movement into the mix would only complicate things even further.

    People need to realize that you can't sue your way out of a problem and expect to win every time. If it were that simple EA and Activision would already be out of business by now. Odds are that the richer a company is the more leverage they have at winning a court case against any small law firm they're going against. There does seem to be an ongoing trend nowadays where people think they can sue their way out of problems such as the situation with Vic Mignogna and FUNimation, however they usually go into these sort of situations with little experience as to how the U.S. federal court system works.
     
    wolf jani likes this.
  12. Mew2

    Mew2 Team Rocket's Enemy

    I'm not so certain about your last supposition given the fact that Japanese fans are also up in arms about this. If there is a drop in sales, I think it won't be a stretch to think that it was due to the removal of some Pokémon and some core mechanics like Mega Evolution and Z-Moves since so many people are talking about it. Some more things I'm thinking about as I've been reading this thread is what effect this will have on Town since I've heard that Game Freak's A-team was working on Town, rather than Pokémon Sword and Shield. What happens if Town underperforms or bombs, and Pokémon Sword and Shield also underperform? I'm usually someone that goes with the flow when it comes to Pokémon. I've bought all the games since Gen 1, even LGPE, but as I mentioned before, I canceled my preorder for the dual bundle of Sword and Shield and put it towards a different game I've already preordered. If someone like me does that, how many others will too? From what I'm hearing on the internet, not just here but on other forums, I'm not alone, not here, and not in Japan, either. I really hope that they announce a patch or patches for adding the rest of the Pokémon for Sword and Shield, since if time is the main issue, a patch would be the easiest solution. Until then, or the announcement of a third version that does add the other Pokémon, I'll just keep watching to see what happens. But what is happening here could have severe ramifications for the Pokémon franchise in the future. The animé is already having problems, especially after the time slot switch, and I've heard some reports that at least during XY, the merchandise was not selling as well as before. What happens with those if this controversy continues without Game Freak or Nintendo announcing any satisfying solutions? Could that effect the animé or merchandise in the future? If so, how much will they be affected?
     
  13. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    Fixed this for you.
     
    wolf jani likes this.
  14. People need to stop acting like the Pokedex is all there is to Pokemon. For Pete's sake people, give it a chance. Just because it doesn't have everything doesn't mean what it does have isn't good.
     
  15. Pokemon Fan

    Pokemon Fan Knuckle Trainer

    People aren't deny there are good things in the game (or at least most aren't) but are saying that they don't want the games to remove pokemon from the programming and for that to be the new policy going forward. They argue that if Gamefreak was really making as much of an effort as they claim then they wouldn't have to sacrifice pokemon.
     
  16. Mag Prime

    Mag Prime The Pokemon Avenger

    Whatever, I apologise for misusing the word "objective". It's not "objective" whether BotW is better looking than OoT or whether Odyssey is better looking than Mario 64 either but if we polled people it would be 99% on one side. That was what I was trying to convey but I agree, the word "objective" does not apply literally.

    So feel free to replace "objectively more expressive animations" with "such that the overwhelming majority of people is guaranteed to subjectively find to be more expressive animations". And if you still disagree with that please, watch 3 random youtube videos of PBR and then 3 random videos of SwSh and tell me that the animations for PBR aren't better at conveying emotion and giving each pokemon a unique character.

    If they had all 900 pokemon in the game, then yes, they would have a lot more pokemon. But they said they are cutting down the pokemon so as to improve the quality of the animations. This means the comparison is between the 493 pokemon in PBR with however many pokemon are in Galar. Now, we don't exactly know how many they are but I bet they are not that much more than 500. I could be wrong, but we've never had a regional dex nearly that high before and it would be too many to integrate into the story anyway.

    So the number of pokemon between the two games is easily comparable. As for "they have more moves to animate", you saw double kick. It's literally just a 2D image superimposed on the target. In PBR each pokemon would have an animation for physical moves, an animation for special moves, an animation for receiving damage and an animation for feinting. Here we don't even seem to have that and they aren't as detailed. The different character models are only gonna be a tiny fraction of the pokemon, this game isn't going to have 500 different human characters and they aren't all gonna need different animations. The battle mechanics other than Dynamaxing are just gonna be ported over.

    It's an obvious lie that the animations became more expressive. They just aren't. They could have said "the overall scope of the game has increased" which would have been more vague and wouldn't be an obvious lie, but instead they went with "high quality animations" which anybody can see is false.
     
  17. Poke Trainer J

    Poke Trainer J Well-Known Member

    To be fair you're not wrong. :)
     
    wolf jani likes this.
  18. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    Without the Pokemon, what is the point? Not to mention they've basically stated they'll continue down this road with future titles, so the more games we get the more likely someone's favorite Pokemon will sit out on multiple games and years in a row. Which is a really terrible choice to make.(Especially since the Switch can easily handle 900+ Pokemon since the 3DS could handle 800+)

    Also the opposite can be said as well. Just because there's all these new and neat mechanics doesn't mean it makes up for what's not there and it doesn't mean it'll be a good game. People can only judge based on what we know and what we can see, and what we know and see is that Megas, Z-Moves, and a portion of Pokemon are going to be completely absent from the games, and the new stuff just isn't exciting or innovative enough to get over that fact. I honestly think the only outstanding thing I've seen showcased is the Wild Area, but players kinda expected that after hearing it would move to Switch.
     
  19. Chaos Emperor

    Chaos Emperor ................

    I think what he’s implying here is the national dex being the make or break decision and some people’s overreaction to it is getting a bit out of hand and starting to overshadow the game itself. It’s one thing to be disappointed by this, it’s another to have a full existential crisis over it.

    Again, gen 3, 202/386 initially available in ruby/sapphire, people were understandably upset but those missing mons became available in firered and leaf green. I trust a solution will appear at some point. It may not be the most ideal solution (transferring Pokemon before bank was a chore) and may not happen as quick as people would like (we went roughly a year without all Pokemon being available in gen 3), but I trust it’ll happen. We just need to take a chill pill, be reasonable in our complaints (I.e. not spam twitter/reddit 1000 times a day every day), and wait and see what unfolds with Pokemon home, as we still don’t know everything about that either.
     
  20. Apparently you don't know what obvious means either. They are not lying about anything. While it may be true that no regional Pokedex has ever had more than 500 Pokemon, that's because they always had a National Pokedex. Now that the regional dex is the only dex it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to include over 600 as the regional dex count.

    Also, did you ever once stop to think that when they said animation they weren't talking about the Pokemon? Look at the region itself, from the buildings to the wild area to the weather; the animation is epic by Pokemon standards. And aside from that, the Pokemon are in fact more polished than before; it's not like they simply copied and pasted the files from USUM, changes were made. I feel like the most ridiculous part of your argument is that you seem to be implying that Double Kick is the only move in the game. There are countless moves that will require far more detailed animation; just to name a few there's Frenzy Plant, Blizzard, Hurricane, and Eruption. You can't look at one very basic attack and act like it's the standard.
     
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