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Does this idea seem at all plausible to you?


  • Total voters
    182

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
What I give people the right about complaining for National Dex is that the 1000(+) models obviously require a capable hardware to run smoothly and Switch already offers it.

If you also consider a generation usually last 3-4 years, it is inevitable the hardware will evolve so is the software and make everything possible, and easier, due to the mass growth of technology. If they start modeling the rest of the Pokémon now whether they will be present in SWSH or not, their work force will be as small as the roster of next generation.
I mean they have the right to be disappointed but not the irrational just absurdity that a lot of the comments I'm seeing everywhere seems to have.

I've seen a lot of people being like we can't catch them all anymore which is just wrong because they fail to take into account that Japan never had that slogan in mind and has never used it. That's just something that would added in the west which tbh, I haven't heard in years now from any official source.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
I mean they have the right to be disappointed but not the irrational just absurdity that a lot of the comments I'm seeing everywhere seems to have.
I've seen a lot of people being like we can't catch them all anymore which is just wrong because they fail to take into account that Japan never had that slogan in mind and has never used it. That's just something that would added in the west which tbh, I haven't heard in years now from any official source.
Yeah but anime show in the Japanese sub did have the Dr.Okido make big deal out of it in the Okorizaru episode during the classic pocket monsters os era!
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Yeah but anime show in the Japanese sub did have the Dr.Okido make big deal out of it in the Okorizaru episode during the classic pocket monsters os era!
Are you really talking about something 20 years ago now as an example of today lol?? I watch every episode of the anime and I never hear them say catch them all, they say the japanese version which is just everybody get pokemon.
 

TsengHyena

Well-Known Member
So I have a genuine question for people, lets say down the road we are like at generation 15 and there is something like 2000+ pokemon, would you guys still have this same expectation that all the pokemon must be in there no matter what??
Yes. The only time I would entertain an alternative would be if we got a really strict cycle-in, cycle-out rotation with no pokemon being left out for more than one game, as well as each game being able to connect for online battles with future games.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Are you really talking about something 20 years ago now as an example of today lol?? I watch every episode of the anime and I never hear them say catch them all, they say the japanese version which is just everybody get pokemon.
It is similar though.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Yes. The only time I would entertain an alternative would be if we got a really strict cycle-in, cycle-out rotation with no pokemon being left out for more than one game, as well as each game being able to connect for online battles with future games.
Which is what we might be getting for all you know. Again, far too soon to be freaking out like this when we don't know any details.

It is similar though.
It actually isn't. In Japan, the slogan is about everybody going out and playing and interacting with pokemon whether that is through pokemon go, watching the anime, collecting the cards, or playing the games. The end goal is just to enjoy pokemon which is what it should have been in the US from the start as well.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Apparently Game Freak hasn't been very efficient in the programming side of things up to Gen 7 where as the game performance tends to be worse than what the console / handheld is capable of. Here's something a person found with Sun & Moon and If what he's saying is true then that's an issue which seems to be one of many as Sword & Shield doesn't appear to be all that different in that regard:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SciresM/status/872789631259095040?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^872789631259095040&ref_url=https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2017/06/13/mistakes-found-in-main-series-pokemon-game-coding/

With the way Dynamax forms were made seems to imply that they aren't resized Pokémon but their own models made from scratch or just made and stored as a separate model which also seems very inefficient from a programming standpoint as well. Game Freak is potentially wasting way too much time adding unnecessary models in Sword & Shield at the cost of all Pokémon being available to play.

There's a rumor that some programmers found that every encounter with Lillie in Sun & Moon is it's own model (even If they're identical) that caused the Sun & Moon games to be bloated and If Game Freak did that again in Sword & Shield that's even more memory wasted. What we're facing are 100 Encryptions and Decryptions for a single Pokémon. So it's no wonder their performance issues have been shaky especially in Doubles.
This stuff has already been debunked a while ago. Also, the separate models was something that was already gone over. That would only be a problem if storage space was a limiting factor for Sword and Shield, and nobody ever claimed it was.
 

TsengHyena

Well-Known Member
Which is what we might be getting for all you know. Again, far too soon to be freaking out like this when we don't know any details.



It actually isn't. In Japan, the slogan is about everybody going out and playing and interacting with pokemon whether that is through pokemon go, watching the anime, collecting the cards, or playing the games. The end goal is just to enjoy pokemon which is what it should have been in the US from the start as well.
Its not freaking out to discuss it. Once information comes out that settles people's concerns then it'll die down.

Actually, if you go to the Pokemon Twitter page, to this day it says 'Catching Them All'
 

MadaMada

Well-Known Member
imho, I guess could have added all the Pokemon for Sword and Shield like many have said. There is no hardware limitations, and they have the 3D Models. If it was a Dynamax issue, they could have scrapped Dynamax, and though of another gimmicks. I mean Megas are nice, everyone loves Megas.

But I think this is part of their plan of conditioning the fans to adapt to the new policy. My entire point is you can't keep on adding to your inventory without removing some inventory. This is literally impossible in all cases in life. Whenever they start to do this, they will inevitably face this backlash, so why not get over with it now? When Gen 10, Gen 11, Gen 12 comes... are fans going to expect GameFreak to be able to add in all Pokemon again? I am guessing YES, we all want them to keep adding without reducing. But that is ridiculous... any logical person can deduct this is ridiculous.

Imagine, in the year 2050, are we going to stick to our principals and demand gamefreak to have backwards compatibility back to 2001? Is it possible? Yes. But is it a good idea? The entire statement just looks dumb to me. Pokemon Bank probably aren't going to survive another 10 years.

What about the reusable models you say? We dunno what lies in the future, and how long these "reusable" models can be "reused" and supported. There will come a time, probably in the next 15 years, they will need to remodel everything again... and that is a lot of effort.... sure hire people, take more time, but can they indefinitely continue this solution? it will break a tipping point that would break someday...
 

JW1004

Well-Known Member
So I have a genuine question for people, lets say down the road we are like at generation 15 and there is something like 2000+ pokemon, would you guys still have this same expectation that all the pokemon must be in there no matter what??
I would have that expectation.With the current developments, I guess we shouldn't have any expectations though. But yeah in all seriousness, I also had the expectation for Sword and Shield. I expect every core game to atleast have all Pokémon programmed in or atleast have the oppertunity to DLC or buy patches to have them programmed in if they indeed had time limit and never done it before. I have done playthroughs with various Pokémon in every gen, so I can adapt to the limitations but at a certain point you have been through all the potential options you enjoy. Ruby and Sapphire also had a limited roster, but was expanded with Colloseum, XD, Fire red and Leaf Green and all Pokémon were be able to be traded to each game, even if they were not available in those games. Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon also only had no official National dex, only if you connected it to Bank, but still all Mon were programmed in and if you played the Virtual Console or sent over your mon from past games through Bank, you still could play with them.

My personal problem is not even the limited roster itself, but more that it feels a bit stupid at this point in time? That is why I have that expectation that every mon will be programmed in aswell. Every new console gives more oppertunities and more space, but Pokémon as franchise have been less than innovative and for all I know also never used the full capacity or potential of the consoles they were featured on. I get development costs time and energy and they probably had problems with time restrictions etc. But this is more a descision that would have made sense in Generation 5. We had a complete NEW set of monsters, with every other gen excluded. Every gen forward could have been an altered roster and we basically already would have been used to it by now.

It just feels odd to me personally that Gen 8 is the point they start these limited rosters, especially since it is the follow up generation to the generation where we could sent over Pokémon from every single game from Red/Blue/Yellow to Omega Ruby and Aplha Sapphire. Gamefreak has made us so used to be able to have everything ready and together that this descisions gives competitive players, players like me who do various playthroughs etc. a sort of panick attack since we are for the first time ever limited, since they basically already said that this is the new policy for the future aswell, so no game for all we know will ever have al Pokémon programmed into them.

It is is what it is at this point, and I keep being curious to see what more will be revealed up until the games will be released. I just wish the descision itself woulf have had a little more sense and a little more information. It;s like they dropped a bomb and just left (for now)
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
There is this prevalent misconception, not only among pokemon fans or gamers in general, but pretty much everyone, where a lot of people think that criticizing something automatically makes you a hater. I grew up with Pokemon and the reason why I've been whining about this all week is because I love the franchise and it's truly painful to see it go into this direction. I'm not accusing you of anything personally as I haven't been following this conversation but there are a lot of people out there, including popular Youtubers, that are using language such as "haters", "echo chamber", "stupid" to refer to the people complaining about the games and the pokemon subreddit, and that is undermining the very effort to get them improved.
And people who accuse those who still want to buy the game of being mindless whales or fanbois who just slurp up everything with the Pokemon name on it are better....how exactly?

Fair enough, you are the one who gets to spend your own money and if you still want to buy the games when they come out that's ultimately your choice. Nobody can force you to boycott GF. But we are trying to get either these or future games improved and you not buying them would help us in that cause so we are gonna argue our case. This is a forum about discussing those games and so we are well within our rights to tell you why we think buying those games is gonna make the next games worse.
Look, I understand where you are coming from and I agree with a lot of the criticism and with a lot of your statements. Look in the thread I've said similar things to some of them myself (their excuses being ridiculous, for example, or that their management seems to be wonky)
But... again, ad much as I agree with you, the Dex issue doesn't affect my affect me or my enjoyment of the game, at all. So denying myself Sword or Shield just because it affects other people in some illusory, and doomed to fail, Grass-Roots movement to stick it to "the (Masuda)man", is ridiculous to me.
If they do something that makes me dislike the games strongly enough (such as turning them into MMOs or implementing a Real Time Battle System) then I will stop buying the games, but not before.

Yeah you're in the rights of saying that if this game is succesful GF might not see any reason to change, but grouping everybody who does buy them as mindless consumer drones is neither okay, nor will it win anybody over to your side.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
I would have that expectation.With the current developments, I guess we shouldn't have any expectations though. But yeah in all seriousness, I also had the expectation for Sword and Shield. I expect every core game to atleast have all Pokémon programmed in or atleast have the oppertunity to DLC or buy patches to have them programmed in if they indeed had time limit and never done it before. I have done playthroughs with various Pokémon in every gen, so I can adapt to the limitations but at a certain point you have been through all the potential options you enjoy. Ruby and Sapphire also had a limited roster, but was expanded with Colloseum, XD, Fire red and Leaf Green and all Pokémon were be able to be traded to each game, even if they were not available in those games. Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon also only had no official National dex, only if you connected it to Bank, but still all Mon were programmed in and if you played the Virtual Console or sent over your mon from past games through Bank, you still could play with them.

My personal problem is not even the limited roster itself, but more that it feels a bit stupid at this point in time? That is why I have that expectation that every mon will be programmed in aswell. Every new console gives more oppertunities and more space, but Pokémon as franchise have been less than innovative and for all I know also never used the full capacity or potential of the consoles they were featured on. I get development costs time and energy and they probably had problems with time restrictions etc. But this is more a descision that would have made sense in Generation 5. We had a complete NEW set of monsters, with every other gen excluded. Every gen forward could have been an altered roster and we basically already would have been used to it by now.

It just feels odd to me personally that Gen 8 is the point they start these limited rosters, especially since it is the follow up generation to the generation where we could sent over Pokémon from every single game from Red/Blue/Yellow to Omega Ruby and Aplha Sapphire. Gamefreak has made us so used to be able to have everything ready and together that this descisions gives competitive players, players like me who do various playthroughs etc. a sort of panick attack since we are for the first time ever limited, since they basically already said that this is the new policy for the future aswell, so no game for all we know will ever have al Pokémon programmed into them.

It is is what it is at this point, and I keep being curious to see what more will be revealed up until the games will be released. I just wish the descision itself woulf have had a little more sense and a little more information. It;s like they dropped a bomb and just left (for now)
Actually they said they wanted to first implement it in sun and moon but decided to wait until the home console so this isn't just a mic drop and walk away, they've been considering this option for awhile now. Also there will be more info about the games in like two weeks so they didn't just walk away and ignore the backlash. They're obviously gonna talk about it at some point.
 

JW1004

Well-Known Member
Actually they said they wanted to first implement it in sun and moon but decided to wait until the home console so this isn't just a mic drop and walk away, they've been considering this option for awhile now. Also there will be more info about the games in like two weeks so they didn't just walk away and ignore the backlash. They're obviously gonna talk about it at some point.
Interesting, curious to hear what they have to say at that point.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
But why even implement it now?
If you look at the interview:

"We knew at some point we weren't going to be able to indefinitely keep supporting all of the Pokemon, and we just found that Sword and Shield would probably be a good point to go back and reevaluate what would be the best selection of Pokemon that appeal to the widest audience while keeping into consideration the balance of the battle system.
It sounds a lot like it wouldn't have been necessary now, but they are doing it because they believe it will be necessary in the future and they think the first SWITCH game is a good starting point of this new policy.
If we take that by face value, they are implementing this waaaaaaaay before it's necessary, as some sort of precaution and that's just weird...
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
But why even implement it now?
If you look at the interview:



It sounds a lot like it wouldn't have been necessary now, but they are doing it because they believe it will be necessary in the future and they think the first SWITCH game is a good starting point of this new policy.
If we take that by face value, they are implementing this waaaaaaaay before it's necessary, as some sort of precaution and that's just weird...
Regardless of when they implement this, it was always gonna create this same backlash so better to get it out of the way now so there isn't an uproar when the next gen comes then to keep putting it off.

I sort of just had a thought and it made me feel like they are going the right route with this. If we think of each region as a place it in the real world, it actually makes perfect sense why the limit would be there. Think about it, the variety of animals and plants vary greatly between the UK, America, and Japan so it actually makes perfect sense to make each game feel like their own special place with their own pokemon found. If every single country and region had the same exact pokemon, it would be boring frankly and show a lack of diversity. Why travel at all if I can get all the same things right here at at home.
 

TsengHyena

Well-Known Member
Regardless of when they implement this, it was always gonna create this same backlash so better to get it out of the way now so there isn't an uproar when the next gen comes then to keep putting it off.

I sort of just had a thought and it made me feel like they are going the right route with this. If we think of each region as a place it in the real world, it actually makes perfect sense why the limit would be there. Think about it, the variety of animals and plants vary greatly between the UK, America, and Japan so it actually makes perfect sense to make each game feel like their own special place with their own pokemon found. If every single country and region had the same exact pokemon, it would be boring frankly and show a lack of diversity. Why travel at all if I can get all the same things right here at at home.
They've been doing that with Regional Dexes for a while now; the National Dex doesn't change whats found in the game. Another way to look at this, is you can import reptiles found in foriegn countries and still raise them as pets normally. You don't need to actually have them catchable in game, just the data.

Though, the idea of having a second Core Game series, that releases with bigger space between each release (leaving the normal yearly game alone); but continuously adds all the pokemon of each gen to it, without leaving out any could be good.
 

Endless

Sun God ☉
Regardless of when they implement this, it was always gonna create this same backlash so better to get it out of the way now so there isn't an uproar when the next gen comes then to keep putting it off.

I sort of just had a thought and it made me feel like they are going the right route with this. If we think of each region as a place it in the real world, it actually makes perfect sense why the limit would be there. Think about it, the variety of animals and plants vary greatly between the UK, America, and Japan so it actually makes perfect sense to make each game feel like their own special place with their own pokemon found. If every single country and region had the same exact pokemon, it would be boring frankly and show a lack of diversity. Why travel at all if I can get all the same things right here at at home.
It does make sense to limit the catchable Pokémon in the game as some would obviously not be native to the region, and that has pretty much always been the case. If you would like to put more emphasis on that aspect you could implement trading/transfer bans on foreign Pokémon until you beat the main story, as has also been done previously in some cases.
That is pretty different from them not being transferable at all though, and the actual in-universe reason given is that Galar is too cold for some Pokémon. That explanation doesn't really work unless at least every Ice Pokémon is transferable and only the most tropical ones aren't.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
They've been doing that with Regional Dexes for a while now; the National Dex doesn't change whats found in the game. Another way to look at this, is you can import reptiles found in foriegn countries and still raise them as pets normally. You don't need to actually have them catchable in game, just the data.

Though, the idea of having a second Core Game series, that releases with bigger space between each release (leaving the normal yearly game alone); but continuously adds all the pokemon of each gen to it, without leaving out any could be good.
It does make sense to limit the catchable Pokémon in the game as some would obviously not be native to the region, and that has pretty much always been the case. If you would like to put more emphasis on that aspect you could implement trading/transfer bans on foreign Pokémon until you beat the main story, as has also been done previously in some cases.
That is pretty different from them not being transferable at all though, and the actual in-universe reason given is that Galar is too cold for some Pokémon. That explanation doesn't really work unless at least every Ice Pokémon is transferable and only the most tropical ones aren't.
I guess what I'm saying is that to me it makes sense to limit the pokemon found in the games even though transferring as it'll sort of force players to play the new games fully and adapt to each games and regions specific rules instead of just a rushing through to get to all your old pokemon sort of thing.

Literally every other game series in the world does this same thing where certain characters are only in certain games which is what makes those games so much more special then if you have a free for all in every game. Personally I think if they had done this sooner, it would have been better as I never liked the idea of a national dex much to begin with.
 

TsengHyena

Well-Known Member
Why does it seem impossible to not play the game on its own merits first and then use your transfered favourites?
 
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