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Does this idea seem at all plausible to you?


  • Total voters
    189
GF cutting shinies anytime soon would be incredibly weird as I can’t imagine changing the colors of the textures to be that time consuming. On top of that GF knows that shiny hunting is a popular hobby, and giving out traditionally shiny-locked Pokémon as prizes for competitions or tie-ins is something that they have done to get fans interested in such events without really putting in much effort on their side to good effect.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Some people would certainly complain about lack of new things, they always do, however I'd bet money the outcry would be nothing compared to what the removal of old pokemon is getting.

Plus it really needn't be an either/or thing, if including the old pokemon is really as little of a problem as many are arguing.

See but that is what I'm saying, you can't have it both ways, you can't want change and then say boo, go back, this sucks. Especially when you have been complaining about the old stuff for awhile.

I would much rather have an awesome new game then a passable game with Cyndaquil in it anyday. I love Cyndaquil but I'm not here buying or not buying a game for Cyndaquil.
 

Acer11

Well-Known Member
Nintendo / Game Freak said that Pokémon transferred to Pokémon HOME would still have an active role. I think what everybody wants is to be able to battle and trade with other players online through Pokémon HOME with Pokémon that are unable to be transferred to Sword & Shield. That would make the most logical sense given the current situation we're facing where advertisers outside of Japan wouldn't be forced to change the franchise's famous slogan: "Gotta Catch 'Em All!" I would like to hear anyone's arguments as to why battling and trading through Pokémon HOME online wouldn't work If it has the exact same graphics and gameplay as Sword & Shield minus the adventure.

They already did confirm that there wasn't going to be any patches regarding transferring Pokémon to Sword & Shield yet they haven't ruled out paid DLC which leads to microtransactions and loot boxes as it's currently being investigated by the U.S. Government. I don't think it'd be wise for Nintendo / Game Freak to pursue a business model like EA just for one video game franchise which is becoming more shady each year. They could just restrict the DLC Pokémon toward Pokémon that you're unable to transfer over to Sword & Shield while the Pokémon that you're able to transfer over that's been confirmed on the Galar PokéDex are free of charge. Last I checked Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has paid DLC so why is it a problem with Pokémon Sword & Shield?
Well, some Pokemon that don't appear in Sword and Shield will reappear in the remakes of... Oh never mind. I've said that before..
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
See but that is what I'm saying, you can't have it both ways
Why not though? That's the thing, Masuda has yet to give a good explanation for why its too much work to include all the past Pokemon. They managed to create future-proofed 3D models for ALL existing Pokemon from scratch back in XY (outright saying in interviews that they did this to make it easier to transfer to future games with better graphics), plus all the new pokemon and mega evolutions, all in a reasonable time frame. If what is said about mostly just needing to update textures is true, then allowing the transfer of old pokemon to Sword and Shield should actually be EASIER than what they did at the start of the 3DS era.
 
Let's say all Pokemon are programmed in. GF artists/animators put in all the work to make textures and animate Simisear and Stunfisk and Garbodor. Animate them for the Amie/contest/whatever other feature equivalents as well. All of the community is really happy. About 30% of them (which feels like an overestimate to me) actually bother transferring them in to complete their national dex. And like 10 people actually bother using these Pokemon. To me that sounds like a lot of wasted effort. For the person who put in the effort, that is very disheartening. Let's show a little altruism there as well and when looking at that one person who can't use their Simisear from White anymore.

Now, if these Pokemon are excluded from the game and brought back in the next game with a dex of 400 Pokemon, the chances of these Pokemon actually being used by people go up by a lot. As the number of Pokemon increases, the number of Pokemon that no one or a very very small minority of people use also goes higher. This ensures all the Pokemon that show up in a game are at least somewhat used by people. Sure, all Pokemon are never going to have the same popularity and you will still have some that are unpopular but the chances of them being used out of a smaller pool of Pokemon are higher than all 900 Pokemon (which will only increase). Yes, you can't use your favourite Pokemon, it's sad but it forces you to try Pokemon or team combinations that you wouldn't think of otherwise and might end up liking.

But I don't wanna be forced into using something I don't like! Well, then skip the game whose dex doesn't impress you. I didn't like most gen 4 Pokemon designs and I skipped those games regardless of how everyone else felt about them. It's a game, I'm sure you have other things you could do.

As for childhood attachments to Pokemon, well people lose real people and things they have attachments to as they grow up because of a number of different reasons. You learn to let go and move on, that's life. I'm sure it's at least somewhat easier with a character in a game. And it's not like you can never use them again. And if it still ends up being too big if a problem, then maybe it's time to move on from the franchise as a whole because it is no longer what satisfies you.

You hit on a good point here. If a particular Pokemon isn't in a specific game at all, that just means it will be more special when it does get added to a later game. Say someone really loves Beartic, but Beartic isn't in Sword and Shield. The person will be bummed out about Sword and Shield, but when they later find out that Cubchoo appears outside Snowpoint Temple in the gen 4 remakes they'll be over the moon. It makes them more special when you can't just take their presence for granted.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I'm going to give you guys an honest opinion, since I don't want to necessarily hold too much back to try to please everyone.

With that out of the way, I think this bit of news has lead to many overreactions and mass hysteria, and even to toxicity and harassment.

Let me tell you that I don't like the change that much. Few people actually do like the change.

However, the kind of backlash this has received has been ridiculous.

You are well within your right to criticize the choice. I believe that criticism is a part of how we look at things critically, even outside of video games.

However, the behavior has been insufferable lately. People will call Game Freak lazy or incompetent, harass the people involved, twist the narrative, and talk about boycotting the game.

These are inane things to do, and harassment is not tolerable.

I'm tired of people saying that others are "defending Game Freak" as an umbrella statement. It's fine to say that the change isn't that bad, or offer reasonable explanations as to what they are doing. Now, some people are definitely defensive, and don't take well to criticism, but as long as they are not toxic about it, it is well within they're right to talk about the good as it is people talking about the bad.

Also, I'm giving Masuda the benefit of the doubt that he is giving the games the quality he believes the games need. I sincerely doubt Masuda or Ohmori or whomever are trying to snub anyone. You also have to remember that the footage we saw is still about 5 months before launch day, so some things might change before then.

One other thing, and sort of a minor note, is that if they don't patch the game, we may be able to transfer Pokemon not in Sword/Shield into the next games, like the possible Diamond/Pearl remakes. The Pokemon series is basically a conglomerate at this point, so whatever isn't in one game will be in another, and this may become true for Pokemon. My point here is that I doubt your Pokemon will be stuck in Pokemon Home for that long.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Why not though? That's the thing, Masuda has yet to give a good explanation for why its too much work to include all the past Pokemon. They managed to create future-proofed 3D models for ALL existing Pokemon from scratch back in XY (outright saying in interviews that they did this to make it easier to transfer to future games with better graphics), plus all the new pokemon and mega evolutions, all in a reasonable time frame. If what is said about mostly just needing to update textures is true, then allowing the transfer of old pokemon to Sword and Shield should actually be EASIER than what they did at the start of the 3DS era.

Wasn't even referring to the pokemon in that point. I'm referring to people who say they are bored with a certain gimmick or want innovation then throw a fit when something new is tried and say go back to the way it was. Trust me, it is said a lot in pokemon.
 

Hunter Zolomon

Into the Shadows
Staff member
Moderator
The news of no National Dex being included is highly unfortunate, but life goes on. It's just a game. I'll still buy it, so will many others. I play games for fun, and it's a hobby that I hold very near and dear to me. I'm already over this unfortunate news. I just see no reason to keep continuing to dwell in negativity like so many angry fans.

If people are that upset over this news then don't purchase the games. Nobody is stopping you from doing so. Everyone gets that choice. Having arguments that Masuda wont even see won't change anything....

That is all.

Also, let's stay respectful in here please.
 

dual_ditto

New Member
I don’t want to start an argument or anything but is anyone considered who these games are targeted at? KIDS!

With each generation we get a bucket full of new Pokemon which bring with them a whole lot of additional complicated things that need to be integrated into these games like items for specific Pokemon or unique evolution methods. eventually it was always going to get to a point where including all those added things into 1 game were going to complicated the games too much for kids to follow. Personally I think it’s unreasonable to expect a young child, who potentially has never played a Pokemon game before to try understand how to use all 1000 Pokemon to there full potential. The more Pokemon they keep adding into these games the extra layer of complexity they have to add for a child to understand and if they can’t understand it then that alienates that child from playing the games.


I feel I’m not explaining my self very well but here’s an example of what I’m trying to say:

Say they included palkia in the game code but not the actual game, they then have to include the lustrous orb in the game, some kid is going to then find that lustrous orb and not understand what it’s for or think that palkia is in the game and get frustrated with why they can’t find it, this could potentially put kid of playing anymore Pokemon games because they got frustrated with the game. With each Pokemon you add you are asking more things for the player to learn or remember, and there’s a limit on how complicated you can make a game before it becomes too complicated for kids to enjoy playing.


Them cutting the dex is going to ensure going forward that they can limit the amount of things there asking a new player to learn. It’s probably reached that point now where there’s too much stuff to include in the games that younger fans potentially struggle with.

Anyway I’ve probably rambling enough.
 

TsengHyena

Well-Known Member
Younger games cope with things like Fortnite and AAA Games pretty well which are much more complex.

If they cut the majority of pokemon out, what else are they going to cut out? Its clear Gamefreak is struggling with game development on a proper console.

One other thing, and sort of a minor note, is that if they don't patch the game, we may be able to transfer Pokemon not in Sword/Shield into the next games, like the possible Diamond/Pearl remakes. The Pokemon series is basically a conglomerate at this point, so whatever isn't in one game will be in another, and this may become true for Pokemon. My point here is that I doubt your Pokemon will be stuck in Pokemon Home for that long.

The problem with this, is we don't have a good precedent for this. The TCG for example has had pokemon that haven't appeared on a TCG card for many sets. Theres also pokemon that hasn't appeared in a regional dex for several generations. We also do not know what Home does since Masuda never bothered to tell us. Not all of Let's Go Pikachu or Let's Go Eevee's pokemon will be able to transfer in either.

We just don't have enough from Gamefreak to take it on Good Faith.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
Younger games cope with things like Fortnite and AAA Games pretty well which are much more complex.

If they cut the majority of pokemon out, what else are they going to cut out? Its clear Gamefreak is struggling with game development on a proper console.



The problem with this, is we don't have a good precedent for this. The TCG for example has had pokemon that haven't appeared on a TCG card for many sets. Theres also pokemon that hasn't appeared in a regional dex for several generations. We also do not know what Home does since Masuda never bothered to tell us. Not all of Let's Go Pikachu or Let's Go Eevee's pokemon will be able to transfer in either.

We just don't have enough from Gamefreak to take it on Good Faith.

gonintendo.com said:
- even if not in Pokemon Sword & Shield, Game Freak plans on making those Pokemon shine in future titles going forward,
This was pulled from a Famitsu interview with Masuda and Ohmori.
 

TsengHyena

Well-Known Member
This was pulled from a Famitsu interview with Masuda and Ohmori.

Its a very Gamefreak comment, lacking in information. In what way? Does he mean only featuring in spinoff games and stuff like the anime/tcg?
 

JW1004

Well-Known Member
I feel I’m not explaining my self very well but here’s an example of what I’m trying to say:

Say they included palkia in the game code but not the actual game, they then have to include the lustrous orb in the game, some kid is going to then find that lustrous orb and not understand what it’s for or think that palkia is in the game and get frustrated with why they can’t find it, this could potentially put kid of playing anymore Pokemon games because they got frustrated with the game. With each Pokemon you add you are asking more things for the player to learn or remember, and there’s a limit on how complicated you can make a game before it becomes too complicated for kids to enjoy playing.
.
I don't want to sound mean or harsh but this never was a problem and probably never would be, even if all mon would be programmed in like they were in the past. They also programmed items in the past few gens that only were unlocked when you brought the particular Pokémon to a certain NPC or area. Like if you didn't got a Diancie in ORAS, you wouldn't get the Mega Stone. Yes the games are targeted to kids, but kids are not stupid. A big part of the community started with Red, Blue, Yellow or Green without great acces to the internet and having to figure out all on our own. I didn't know what the Fossils were for and only found out post-game I could revive them lmao. While these days kids would just google and find the answer to their questions. I mean we also got all those plates, while there is still a lot of people who have yet to get an Arceus.
I mean things could always be retconned. I mean we also play with Pokémon who's types changed in certain generations, which would be more confusing than a held item you mainly only get in combination of a certain legendary. We have seen evolution methods been changed like with Feebas. They always can make things easier if they want to.
I think kids in general don't get too much credit, yes the attention span is shorter these days, but kids aren't stupid like I said before, just like the 'holding hand' method that increased over the past few gens wasn't really needed, it also isn't really an argument that kids wouldn't understand that certain held items are for certain Pokémon.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
So one thing that's getting me with the gym leaders is that while they have shown two leaders so far, it's hard to say whether or not they were shown in order.

Usually, they reveal gym leaders in order to some extent. I'm not even sure if Milo is the first gym leader. If he is, then we are doing a lot of travelling to get to our first gym, likely passing up other gyms to do it. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time we've had to pass up a gym, but still.

It does have me curious about the order of the gyms, or if there will even be an order. Let's GO became the first game in the series where we could intentionally battle gyms in the order we choose. Could this be the case for Sword and Shield, and future games?
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Say they included palkia in the game code but not the actual game, they then have to include the lustrous orb in the game, some kid is going to then find that lustrous orb and not understand what it’s for or think that palkia is in the game and get frustrated with why they can’t find it, this could potentially put kid of playing anymore Pokemon games because they got frustrated with the game. With each Pokemon you add you are asking more things for the player to learn or remember, and there’s a limit on how complicated you can make a game before it becomes too complicated for kids to enjoy playing.
I think a lot of this isn't due to them having too many pokémon but just because GameFreak introduced too many of these stupid items that only work on a single pokémon (trade evolution items, memories, drives, etc). And not even just items, also tutors that only work for a single pokémon, like Relic Song for Meloetta or Dragon Ascent for Rayquaza. Like, would it really be worse if they just ditched those tutors and moved those moves to the level-up movepool? It might just be me, but there probably are easier solutions to these things than ditching the entire species.
 
If anyone wants to see what it looks like when every gimmick stays after every new generation, look at Yu-Gi-Oh. I went on a hiatus from it for 5 years and when I came back I didn't know what the *bleep* was going on. They'd added 2 new summoning methods, fundamentally changed how the extra deck works, reshaped the whole playing field, and did all this on top of all the gimmicks they had been gradually adding before my hiatus. If I hadn't been a fan for all those years before the hiatus, if I had been a total outsider looking into maybe getting into the game, I would have noped out of there very quickly.

See, maybe GF isn't being lazy when they leave things out. Maybe they just don't want to alienate newer players.
 

JW1004

Well-Known Member
I think a lot of this isn't due to them having too many pokémon but just because GameFreak introduced too many of these stupid items that only work on a single pokémon (trade evolution items, memories, drives, etc). And not even just items, also tutors that only work for a single pokémon, like Relic Song for Meloetta or Dragon Ascent for Rayquaza. Like, would it really be worse if they just ditched those tutors and moved those moves to the level-up movepool? It might just be me, but there probably are easier solutions to these things than ditching the entire species.
Agreed, same for breeding incenses, like it was cute, but gen 6 could have been a perfect way to retcon it and have all Baby's just being the standard while breeding. There are too many items that could be either removed or be changed into one single item. Like you said certain moves could be just included in the level up etc.
 

Mhov

Active Member
So one thing that's getting me with the gym leaders is that while they have shown two leaders so far, it's hard to say whether or not they were shown in order.

Usually, they reveal gym leaders in order to some extent. I'm not even sure if Milo is the first gym leader. If he is, then we are doing a lot of travelling to get to our first gym, likely passing up other gyms to do it. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time we've had to pass up a gym, but still.

It does have me curious about the order of the gyms, or if there will even be an order. Let's GO became the first game in the series where we could intentionally battle gyms in the order we choose. Could this be the case for Sword and Shield, and future games?

Yeah, there isn't a clear order right now. There do seem to be sections though. If we go by the stadiums we can see there are two gyms after the steampunk city and then from the fortress town we have access to the gym in the icy town and gyms in the rocky lake and mushroom forest, finally there's a flower stadium in Pokemon-London. Perhaps people will be able to choose which gym to take on first after the steampunk city and again after the fortress city?
 

LordSerperior

Well-Known Member
So one thing that's getting me with the gym leaders is that while they have shown two leaders so far, it's hard to say whether or not they were shown in order.

Usually, they reveal gym leaders in order to some extent. I'm not even sure if Milo is the first gym leader. If he is, then we are doing a lot of travelling to get to our first gym, likely passing up other gyms to do it. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time we've had to pass up a gym, but still.

It does have me curious about the order of the gyms, or if there will even be an order. Let's GO became the first game in the series where we could intentionally battle gyms in the order we choose. Could this be the case for Sword and Shield, and future games?
According to the rumor which has been pretty accurate so far, Milo is the first and Nessa is the second. According to the same rumors you'd have to prove yourself to sponsors before you are allowed to challenge gyms probably explaining the higher levelled Pokemon.
 
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