Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]

[Bolt the Cat]

Doesn't that make perfect sense though? Town is a brand new game, they have to prove themselves, put their best foot forward to attract players. With pokemon, this has not been the case for the last 5 years. They always do the bare minimum they can get away with, they give you just enough to convince you to buy the games but don't go all out to please their audience. And why would they put in the effort? The fans buy the games in really great numbers anyway.

Problem is that they should be going all out to convince you to buy the games. That's the way capitalism is supposed to work, developers are supposed to be competing with each other to make the most desirable product they can and consumers are supposed to pick the one that's most desirable and the highest quality. This mentality of "they'll buy it anyway because it's Pokemon" is completely dysfunctional and not an environment I want to associate myself with.

And if you look around you, other Nintendo IPs ARE trying to go all out on the Switch to try and give it the best chance of selling they can. You have BotW with its full 3D open world and the sheer amount of freedom it provides, Mario Odyssey being a large scale sandbox platformer with tons of content, Smash Ultimate including literally ever character ever and packing the game full of tons of content and elements from various IPs. And then you have Pokemon trying to cheap out and provide a minimal experience to pander to casuals. There's a very stark contrast between what Nintendo is doing and what Game Freak is doing, in fact they're both taking completely opposite approaches. So when the consumer sees all of these high profile Switch games defying expectations and providing greater experiences than they could've imagined vs. Pokemon trying to be a cynical cash grab providing the bare minimum, it just makes Pokemon look vastly inferior. And again, in a perfectly functioning system the consumer should be looking at this situation and thinking that the other games all offer much better experiences more worth their money and choosing the other games over Pokemon.

 

[Sulfurian]

^ exactly why my money is going to smash ultimate. Way more content then what let's go is bringing. Riding on rapidash is sadly not worth 60 to me right now. Besides I mainly play the pokemon characters anyway.

 

[Lucky3]

Problem is that they should be going all out to convince you to buy the games. That's the way capitalism is supposed to work, developers are supposed to be competing with each other to make the most desirable product they can and consumers are supposed to pick the one that's most desirable and the highest quality. This mentality of "they'll buy it anyway because it's Pokemon" is completely dysfunctional and not an environment I want to associate myself with.

And if you look around you, other Nintendo IPs ARE trying to go all out on the Switch to try and give it the best chance of selling they can. You have BotW with its full 3D open world and the sheer amount of freedom it provides, Mario Odyssey being a large scale sandbox platformer with tons of content, Smash Ultimate including literally ever character ever and packing the game full of tons of content and elements from various IPs. And then you have Pokemon trying to cheap out and provide a minimal experience to pander to casuals. There's a very stark contrast between what Nintendo is doing and what Game Freak is doing, in fact they're both taking completely opposite approaches. So when the consumer sees all of these high profile Switch games defying expectations and providing greater experiences than they could've imagined vs. Pokemon trying to be a cynical cash grab providing the bare minimum, it just makes Pokemon look vastly inferior. And again, in a perfectly functioning system the consumer should be looking at this situation and thinking that the other games all offer much better experiences more worth their money and choosing the other games over Pokemon.

But pandering to casuals is just another way of making people trying to buy their game. And Nintendo wants Switch to have that casual appeal, too. Or who do you think the target audience for Animal Crossing 2019 is going to be? You can like it or not, but it's a market strategy like any other.

It's not really possible to compare objetively the quality of a video-game, at least not to figure out how many people will buy it, because everyone is looking for a different experience. It's not something that everyone uses the same way like a tv. You can't really apply the laws of supply and demand to videogames unless the offer similar experiences. Pokemon is kind of its own genre at this point, so it has no real competition. So sure, if you're only going to get one game, any game, and you like open worlds (which not everyone does) you'll buy BotW over Pokemon. But if you want to play Pokemon, you have to buy Pokemon, there's no choice.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

But pandering to casuals is just another way of making people trying to buy their game. And Nintendo wants Switch to have that casual appeal, too. Or who do you think the target audience for Animal Crossing 2019 is going to be? You can like it or not, but it's a market strategy like any other.

They can appeal to casuals without having to forcibly dumb down the game, it just needs to be straightforward enough that players know where to go and what to do. That's not mutually exclusive with providing a reasonable amount of depth and content.

It's not really possible to compare objetively the quality of a video-game, at least not to figure out how many people will buy it, because everyone is looking for a different experience. It's not something that everyone uses the same way like a tv. You can't really apply the laws of supply and demand to videogames unless the offer similar experiences. Pokemon is kind of its own genre at this point, so it has no real competition. So sure, if you're only going to get one game, any game, and you like open worlds (which not everyone does) you'll buy BotW over Pokemon. But if you want to play Pokemon, you have to buy Pokemon, there's no choice.

While they can't entirely create an objectively good game, there are some things they can do to cast as wide a net as possible. Namely, they should include a wide variety of content that appeals to as many aspects of the gameplay as possible and provide as much content as they can. Offer plenty of opportunities for battling for those who like battling, offer plenty of opportunities for catching Pokemon for those that like to catch Pokemon, offer plenty of places to explore for those that like to explore, offer plenty of side activities for those that like them, etc.

 

[Sulfurian]

To really put into perspective how empty and dry of content pokemon is right now, youtubers who make a living off of this must hack the game to randomize everything, add made up rules to the mix, make fangames that get shut down every week.

Battle royale was a bad attempt, but a step in the right direction. One simple fix of last mon standing with 6 instead of 3 saves that whole aspect.

 

[KyogreThunder]

I'd like to see the height comparison and the footprint in the Dex to return.
I'd like the protagonist to first meet his/her starter Pokemon in the lab again.
I'd like to see some hot springs similiar to Ember Spa (i.e. with healing properties) once again.

 

[Sαpphire]

This "they're not putting in any effort" perspective is shortsighted and silly. We have no information indicating that the 2019 game is going to be anything other than exceptional and full of effort. Reasonable interptretation of the situation, in fact, would suggest that the reason we're getting quick and easy games in 2018 is to provide a longer development period for the "real" debut of the series on the Switch because they know it has to be great. To think they also didn't put in any effort for Sun and Moon, ORAS, or X and Y is also pretty ludicrous, and not a commonly held sentiment at all. Historically, Game Freak has worked very hard to give us the best content they can each generation. What a few of you perceive to be a misstep in direction with Let's Go does not change this, and does not have any bearing on the 2019 games.

 

[Tsukuyomi56]

Given some fans feel the 3DS games are “good but could be better” Game Freak’s statements are essentially empty words to them until they can back it up when they release information for the 2019 game. Particularly as Switch games are much more expensive than 3DS games it is a bit harder to stomach purchasing a 3rd Version after the intial pair (assuming they are sticking to the paired versions + 3rd Version format).

 

[Bolt the Cat]

This "they're not putting in any effort" perspective is shortsighted and silly. We have no information indicating that the 2019 game is going to be anything other than exceptional and full of effort. Reasonable interptretation of the situation, in fact, would suggest that the reason we're getting quick and easy games in 2018 is to provide a longer development period for the "real" debut of the series on the Switch because they know it has to be great. To think they also didn't put in any effort for Sun and Moon, ORAS, or X and Y is also pretty ludicrous, and not a commonly held sentiment at all. Historically, Game Freak has worked very hard to give us the best content they can each generation. What a few of you perceive to be a misstep in direction with Let's Go does not change this, and does not have any bearing on the 2019 games.

The problem is that this brand of "exceptional" that we've seen from the 3DS games and Let's Go is mediocre by the rest of the industry's standards. Console games have been doing more than those games have been doing for as long as Pokemon's been around and even some 3DS games from other IPs offer more than Game Freak have. Either they're not putting in enough effort or they're simply not equipped enough to be capable of creating the kind of flagship entry this series deserves. This series is FAR behind the curve the right now, so it's not enough for it to be "exceptional". It needs to feel like a massive leap forward and put the 3DS games to shame like they

Also, having a filler game this year doesn't really help them much if the goal is to provide a longer development period. The extra time and effort needed to create the filler game simply offsets the extra year before the game's release. If they wanted to focus on making the 2019 game the best they could possibly make it they should've left this year a gap year and devoted the entire year of extra time to the 2019 game.

 

[Kage-Pikachu]

Also, having a filler game this year doesn't really help them much if the goal is to provide a longer development period. The extra time and effort needed to create the filler game simply offsets the extra year before the game's release. If they wanted to focus on making the 2019 game the best they could possibly make it they should've left this year a gap year and devoted the entire year of extra time to the 2019 game.

It helps them get more used to the system in the same way working on other games helped them get used to the Gameboy Advance. They've stated in the past that working on Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon was helping them with the Switch game (no idea how admittedly, but maybe it was a way to get the "younger" team more used to Pokemon games) and I think LGP/E will help them get used to the Switch along with Town. When Diamond and Pearl came out they didn't push the DS nearly as far as they could have as demonstrated with how graphically superior Black and White were. The same can be said with X and Y and Sun and Moon, the development of the former allowed for much better graphics in the latter. I'm still thankful for LGP/E rather than having no new Pokemon game at all this year. I would have been disappointed if the next gen looked the way LGP/E does, it looks great but the chibi formula is a turn off after seeing Sun and Moon.

 

[Mega Altaria]

It helps them get more used to the system in the same way working on other games helped them get used to the Gameboy Advance. They've stated in the past that working on Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon was helping them with the Switch game (no idea how admittedly, but maybe it was a way to get the "younger" team more used to Pokemon games) and I think LGP/E will help them get used to the Switch along with Town. When Diamond and Pearl came out they didn't push the DS nearly as far as they could have as demonstrated with how graphically superior Black and White were. The same can be said with X and Y and Sun and Moon, the development of the former allowed for much better graphics in the latter. I'm still thankful for LGP/E rather than having no new Pokemon game at all this year. I would have been disappointed if the next gen looked the way LGP/E does, it looks great but the chibi formula is a turn off after seeing Sun and Moon.

Well they're pretty much using LGPE as a way to get used to the Switch and make the 2019 Pokémon games look a lot better. I think that's going to work really well despite this being the first time they've been using this formula.

 

[Kage-Pikachu]

Well they're pretty much using LGPE as a way to get used to the Switch and make the 2019 Pokémon games look a lot better. I think that's going to work really well despite this being the first time they've been using this formula.

Exactly, this is why I feel it's a good thing that LGP/E are coming out.

I'm really looking forward to Town too, hopefully they introduce some interesting new RPG elements that could potentially make the next Pokemon game better.

 

[Mega Altaria]

Exactly, this is why I feel it's a good thing that LGP/E are coming out.

I'm really looking forward to Town too, hopefully they introduce some interesting new RPG elements that could potentially make the next Pokemon game better.

I think it'll be a bit weird but somewhat interesting to stick in the player's hometown to go through the entire plot of the story, where characters could come to the player's hometown to battle them, including Gym Leaders. But then at least it could be interesting to know that Gym Leaders aren't assigned to a specific town but they travel around the town to challenge players. Even the entire town is considered to be a League.

 

[Kage-Pikachu]

It would be cool to see gym leaders outside of their gyms more often. It makes sense too since if they literally just stayed in one place all the time then they'd never get a lot of challengers (since in the games very few people seem to actively take the gym leader challenge).

 

[Mega Altaria]

It would be cool to see gym leaders outside of their gyms more often. It makes sense too since if they literally just stayed in one place all the time then they'd never get a lot of challengers (since in the games very few people seem to actively take the gym leader challenge).

Yeah. I think it'll be a good idea to do a bit of a change just to try something different. At least I'll be fine if at least one of them was able to challenge the player for a Gym Badge outside of a Gym.

 

[Sαpphire]

The problem is that this brand of "exceptional" that we've seen from the 3DS games and Let's Go is mediocre by the rest of the industry's standards. Console games have been doing more than those games have been doing for as long as Pokemon's been around and even some 3DS games from other IPs offer more than Game Freak have. Either they're not putting in enough effort or they're simply not equipped enough to be capable of creating the kind of flagship entry this series deserves. This series is FAR behind the curve the right now, so it's not enough for it to be "exceptional". It needs to feel like a massive leap forward and put the 3DS games to shame like they

Also, having a filler game this year doesn't really help them much if the goal is to provide a longer development period. The extra time and effort needed to create the filler game simply offsets the extra year before the game's release. If they wanted to focus on making the 2019 game the best they could possibly make it they should've left this year a gap year and devoted the entire year of extra time to the 2019 game.

This is what the series is. It has been as such for over half a decade. At some point, you need to stop expecting something that the series just isn't.

I don't believe that what you are under the impression they should create is what they can create. Not realistically, not otherwise. You can demand a good game; you can't demand something impossible. This is the first major home console title in a handheld series; keep that in mind, and keep in mind their quality so far compared to other major handheld game series (widely regarded as rather exceptional, in case you weren't aware).

Additionally, there are at least two distinct teams that work on Pokemon games. A simpler release one year means that more resources can be diverted to the game being released a year after, and is not detrimental to the development of the later title. As such, given that it allows the allocation of more resources and allows the primary team to focus exclusively on the new games, I stand by my assertion that the "filler" games are beneficial to the development of the primary entries.

 

[BCVM22]

Assuming what’s on the main page is legitimate (and that’s a colossal “if” surrounded by much salt)...

Spoiler

I see what looks like a lugnut on an organic body. I imagine it becomes a larger gathering of scrap metals bonded together by whatever makes up the body. Like a metal Muk.

 

[FrozTKnight]

The problem is that this brand of "exceptional" that we've seen from the 3DS games and Let's Go is mediocre by the rest of the industry's standards. Console games have been doing more than those games have been doing for as long as Pokemon's been around and even some 3DS games from other IPs offer more than Game Freak have. Either they're not putting in enough effort or they're simply not equipped enough to be capable of creating the kind of flagship entry this series deserves. This series is FAR behind the curve the right now, so it's not enough for it to be "exceptional". It needs to feel like a massive leap forward and put the 3DS games to shame like they

Also, having a filler game this year doesn't really help them much if the goal is to provide a longer development period. The extra time and effort needed to create the filler game simply offsets the extra year before the game's release. If they wanted to focus on making the 2019 game the best they could possibly make it they should've left this year a gap year and devoted the entire year of extra time to the 2019 game.

If people want GF to make games to close industry standards then they will have to stop expecting a Pokemon game every year. But some fans don't really want that and with how much money they make selling games every year they aren't going to change.

 

[paipr_christian]

Assuming what’s on the main page is legitimate (and that’s a colossal “if” surrounded by much salt)...

Spoiler

I see what looks like a lugnut on an organic body. I imagine it becomes a larger gathering of scrap metals bonded together by whatever makes up the body. Like a metal Muk.

I could see it being a "upgrade Pokemon". Like perhaps it's another Pokemon TR created to augment Mewtwo to make it more powerful or something.

 

[Lucky3]

It helps them get more used to the system in the same way working on other games helped them get used to the Gameboy Advance. They've stated in the past that working on Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon was helping them with the Switch game (no idea how admittedly, but maybe it was a way to get the "younger" team more used to Pokemon games) and I think LGP/E will help them get used to the Switch along with Town. When Diamond and Pearl came out they didn't push the DS nearly as far as they could have as demonstrated with how graphically superior Black and White were. The same can be said with X and Y and Sun and Moon, the development of the former allowed for much better graphics in the latter. I'm still thankful for LGP/E rather than having no new Pokemon game at all this year. I would have been disappointed if the next gen looked the way LGP/E does, it looks great but the chibi formula is a turn off after seeing Sun and Moon.

That's true. BW2 pushed the DS to the limit and SM-USUM did the same with 3DS, and the same applies to Crystal and Game Boy back in the day. It's a little unfair to accuse GF of lack of content when the hardware could barely run the games.