Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]

[Ignition]

Can we do away with the sentiment of "well, they didn't have to say anything, so just be thankful we got a statement at all" please? For one thing it's a non-sequitur because it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality or relevance of the statement, and for another, while they might be absolutely required to give us a statement, to not do so or to do so poorly would be a poor business move. Like Creyk said, this is a business, not charity work. It's a mutual relationship. They give us something (quality games), we give them something (money). If the quality of the product they're offering declines, saying "well, just be thankful we're getting anything at all" might sound nice and cute, but when you consider the fact that we're paying more for this product than the previous line of products, it's actually slightly asinine.

This so much. It’s not like GF is giving us the game out of free kindness. They’re running a business and the consumers should be able to hear from them as that’s where their hard money is going

 

[Nockturne]

But that's not the point what about the people who enjoy using Sunflora (I'm sure there are at least a couple)? Not everybody plays competitively, so it doesn't matter that much to many people whether the Pokemon they remove are "good" or "bad.

Well when was the last time Sunflora stans got to use one anyway, it hasn't been available in game, pre E4 since B2W2. And any transferred ones in gen 6 and 7 would have had to have been low levelled, so its not like people could use their VC G/S/C Sunflora they used to beat Red because it wouldn't listen for most of the play through anyway. I suppose you could play till the daycare and breed a new one, but how many people actually do that? Not just for Sunflora but for any of their faves that didn't happen to make it into that regions regional dex.

When I first heard some Pokemon simply wouldn't be available through any means I was disappointed, and I still am disappointed and in a perfect world I'd want the decision reversed. But the more I thought about it the more I think its really not gonna impact that many peoples enjoyment of the game. If you're annoyed that we're moving to a more powerful console and getting less content (in a manner of speaking) then that's one thing, but if it really just boils down to "what if my fave doesn't make the cut?!?" haven't there been games where that was basically the case before? Is it really gonna cripple your ability to enjoy the game if you can't play through with your boy Qwilfish? Can you really not enjoy a Pokemon game if you don't have Breloom on your team? Do you really think there won't be another mon in the 100's the game will include that could replace your signature Tyrantrum?

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Well when was the last time Sunflora stans got to use one anyway, it hasn't been available in game, pre E4 since B2W2. And any transferred ones in gen 6 and 7 would have had to have been low levelled, so its not like people could use their VC G/S/C Sunflora they used to beat Red because it wouldn't listen for most of the play through anyway. I suppose you could play till the daycare and breed a new one, but how many people actually do that? Not just for Sunflora but for any of their faves that didn't happen to make it into that regions regional dex.

When I first heard some Pokemon simply wouldn't be available through any means I was disappointed, and I still am disappointed and in a perfect world I'd want the decision reversed. But the more I thought about it the more I think its really not gonna impact that many peoples enjoyment of the game. If you're annoyed that we're moving to a more powerful console and getting less content (in a manner of speaking) then that's one thing, but if it really just boils down to "what if my fave doesn't make the cut?!?" haven't there been games where that was basically the case before? Is it really gonna cripple your ability to enjoy the game if you can't play through with your boy Qwilfish? Can you really not enjoy a Pokemon game if you don't have Breloom on your team? Do you really think there won't be another mon in the 100's the game will include that could replace your signature Tyrantrum?

At least to me, a lot of it is about combinations. I play the main story, takes me about 80 hours or so in Ultra Sun because I'm quite slow and take my time with tons of pokémon in rotation, and then I battle a lot on the battle spot. I spend time training more teams, varying them, optimising them, and trying them out. I'm now already over 1000 hours in Ultra Sun, no idea what the playing time is anymore because the game doesn't measure it beyond 999 hours 59 minutes, and a lot of that is playing on the battle spot. What makes pokémon fun for me is trying to find more combinations that work, combinations that nobody else has thought of yet, playing around in the online competitions in new formats like Spooky Cup or Simple Symphony, that puzzle element is the best for me, and what helps so much in that is the wide variety of pokémon. So many pokémon have unique qualities that no other pokémon can do. Typhlosion is the only pokémon with both Flash Fire and Eruption, Minun is the only pokémon to be able to pass Volt Absorb to other pokémon in a quick setup and has other move options like Encore and Fake Tears, Spinda is the only pokémon that can give other pokémon Contrary, and there are plenty of other pokémon with unique niches, and with more pokémon you can also find more combinations and uses for already existing pokémon. If Eldegoss turns out the way I'm hoping it will it could potentially combine brilliantly with Meganium, which has been somewhat sidelined for a long time now. But cut away half the pokémon and the amount of two-pokémon combinations are already cut by 75%, the amount of combinations with three pokémon are cut by 87.5%. So yes, cutting away a significant portion of the existing dex will be a pain for me. Yes, I do think that if Minun is gone that there won't be another pokémon able to pass Volt Absorb to my Suicune as effectively as Minun can, it can't just be replaced like that, even with 100s of other pokémon. Because that is also pokémon, and especially in the more recent generations one of the main strengths, that they manage to give so many pokémon unique in their playing style and how you can use them. I brought Scizor into the Sun and Moon series of VGC, nobody else seems to run Scizor because people claim Tapu Lele ruins its priority and Incineroar is too common, and I made it work and induce terror into any enemy Xerneas on the field.

 

[Nockturne]

snip

Right, I can understand why competitive players would be annoyed about having fewer pokemon to play with. I probably should have included that when I mentioned the people who are annoyed were getting fewer Pokemon on a more powerful console. Although I guess you could argue fewer Pokemon forces you to consider certain Pokemon you have have overlooked. Those perspectives I can appreciate the frustration. My post was really just about Orphalesion's point that some casual players won't get to play with their faves, and wondering how many people are really jumping through hoops they need to in order to make sure they can play through the game with a team of the favourite oldies that didn't make the regional dex cut. Of the 100's there will be to choose from I'm sure people will be able to find at least 6 they wanna take to the league, even if it doesn't include their A-Team classics.

 

[Zachery Keisler]

I have a hypothesis to test. Today at the World Hobby Fair they manly showed all the information we have now about Pokémon Sword and Shield, but on the main Pokémon site in Japan they say new information about Sword and Shield would be given at the World Hobby Fair. I think they used today to recap what has been given already so tomorrow they can give the new information to end the event with a bang. This is just a hypothesis but it would be the best way for them to give us big information about the games to get the fans excited.

 

[Orphalesion]

Well when was the last time Sunflora stans got to use one anyway, it hasn't been available in game, pre E4 since B2W2. And any transferred ones in gen 6 and 7 would have had to have been low levelled, so its not like people could use their VC G/S/C Sunflora they used to beat Red because it wouldn't listen for most of the play through anyway. I suppose you could play till the daycare and breed a new one, but how many people actually do that? Not just for Sunflora but for any of their faves that didn't happen to make it into that regions regional dex.

When I first heard some Pokemon simply wouldn't be available through any means I was disappointed, and I still am disappointed and in a perfect world I'd want the decision reversed. But the more I thought about it the more I think its really not gonna impact that many peoples enjoyment of the game. If you're annoyed that we're moving to a more powerful console and getting less content (in a manner of speaking) then that's one thing, but if it really just boils down to "what if my fave doesn't make the cut?!?" haven't there been games where that was basically the case before? Is it really gonna cripple your ability to enjoy the game if you can't play through with your boy Qwilfish? Can you really not enjoy a Pokemon game if you don't have Breloom on your team? Do you really think there won't be another mon in the 100's the game will include that could replace your signature Tyrantrum?

Personally I never transfer Pokemon, so it's not gonna affect my enjoyment at all, but the complete denial for people to use their favourites, at all, seems to be a turnoff for people right now, and I can understand that. Even if you probably weren't gonna breed your Tyranitar to use it during the storyline...at least you had that option. And of course people will be upset if they suddenly don't have the option anymore. Humans don't like it when their options get cut down, whether they were ever going to exploit them or not.
I do think a lot of people will enjoy the game regardless, but I also know of a couple friends who have already stated if they can't transfer, and yes, breed, some specific Pokemon they had used in ever generation for years, they're not gonna play. I don't quite agree with it, but Gamefreak did build up Pokemon as this franchise were you can play with your favourite characters, so the outcry is, imho, understandable.
And the Sunflora "Stans" (all three of them) have just as much right to use their favourite if they want to go through the transfer and breeding dance as the million and one Charizard fans.

 

[Erron Black]

haven't there been games where that was basically the case before?

No.

20chars

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Although I guess you could argue fewer Pokemon forces you to consider certain Pokemon you have have overlooked.

That, to me at least, is where the online competitions come into play. The Spooky Cup from last year only allowed spooky pokémon, Tiny Tourney only allowed pokémon up to 1 metre in height, Simple Symphony only allowed pokémon with one type. These competitions change the playing field and there's a ton of variety with them. If they do those competitions frequently enough (like every month or every two months) the playing field can change far more often than only when a new game is released, and they individually still have a decent amount of variety because the underlying pool of pokémon is sufficiently large. But if the entire pool of pokémon is smaller those themed competitions could end up being very centralised because only a handful of pokémon would still be played.

 

[Pyrax]

What's interesting to me is how good Town looks. The environments are high quality and the animations are dynamic, especially compared to SwSh. This whole situation just seems like Gamefreak is deliberately holding back on the games by cutting corners that don't need to be cut. It'd be understandable if the animations seen in E3 were much better than the 3DS era, but they look identical imo.
I was planning on skipping these from the get go, but I'm curious about any graphical improvements in future trailers.

 

[Leonhart]

Honestly I can name at least 100 Pokemon that I wish could be erased from existence cause they're useless or pointless. Alola dex for one was such a let down. I'd can at least half that pokedex alone.

Honestly, I could probably list a couple hundred Pokemon that I don't care for, so I'm in the same boat as well. At this point I don't even mind the fact that Shield and Sword won't have every single Pokemon available. I'm just disappointed that Game Freak is only now sending out surveys and asking for feedback when they probably should have done this kind of research years ago.

 

[Nockturne]

I do think a lot of people will enjoy the game regardless, but I also know of a couple friends who have already stated if they can't transfer, and yes, breed, some specific Pokemon they had used in ever generation for years, they're not gonna play.

I suppose my point really comes down to, it'll be interesting to see how many people actually follow through on that in November. The whole atmosphere around the nat dex reminds me of the reaction to no wild battles in LGPE. Obviously not an apples to apples comparison and the backlash is definitely stronger now but a lot of people who were initially peeved at the loss of a staple mechanic eventually came to think it wasn't that big of a deal, and I'm predicting something similar with Sw/Sh. If you've gone out of your way to make sure you've had a Claydol on your team since 2003, I can get why that being impossible would be galling. But will that many people really let the loss of one or two staples (along with 100's of Pokemon they've probably never thought about twice) really gonna stop people from playing Sw/Sh? I don't think so.

I think the combination of it being a significant change and the fact we don't really have much else to talk about is making this into a storm in a teacup situation. Especially the people who are jumping the conclusion that some Pokemon will now be permanently purged from the series.

Honestly, I could probably list a couple hundred Pokemon that I don't care for, so I'm in the same boat as well. At this point I don't even mind the fact that Shield and Sword won't have every single Pokemon available. I'm just disappointed that Game Freak is only now sending out surveys and asking for feedback when they probably should have done this kind of research years ago.

I'm kind of the same too, but its not even that there are a lot of Pokemon I don't care for, its just some of the traditions GameFreak locked themselves in to were needless. For instance did we really need a regional bird and rodent taking up 4-5 slots in EVERY regional dex? Did so many Unova Pokemon really need to be direct parallels of Pokemon already introduced in Kanto? Couldn't the obligatory Pika-clone dex slot have been taken by something more unique.? All personal opinion of course but I just feel that going into new gens there are too many "genres" of Pokemon we can guarantee we're gonna get, and the series could have done without that.

 

[ArtFenix]

What's interesting to me is how good Town looks. The environments are high quality and the animations are dynamic, especially compared to SwSh. This whole situation just seems like Gamefreak is deliberately holding back on the games by cutting corners that don't need to be cut. It'd be understandable if the animations seen in E3 were much better than the 3DS era, but they look identical imo.
I was planning on skipping these from the get go, but I'm curious about any graphical improvements in future trailers.

Yeah, the moment they showed Town, I thought to myself: "This is what Gen 8 will look like!"
Then they showed SwSh...which didn't look nearly as good as Town.

 

[WishIhadaManafi5]

What's interesting to me is how good Town looks. The environments are high quality and the animations are dynamic, especially compared to SwSh. This whole situation just seems like Gamefreak is deliberately holding back on the games by cutting corners that don't need to be cut. It'd be understandable if the animations seen in E3 were much better than the 3DS era, but they look identical imo.
I was planning on skipping these from the get go, but I'm curious about any graphical improvements in future trailers.

Exactly. It stuck out just how much better Town seems to it. It's sad to see.

I am as well in that area.

On a side note, I was playing Dragon Quest Builders 2's demo last night... and I felt immersed in it, something that felt lacking to me with SwSh in part. It was actually fun walking around gathering items and killing enemies. Just hoping that SwSh will feel similarly to me once it's finished and done.

 

[Minedreigon]

I hope somewhere down the line post launch we get some kind of actually informative insight for what went so wrong such that this controversial move was necessary. Maybe it was more of a Nintendo issue than it was a Gamefreak issue and they were pushed for time to encourage console sales with the games’ release, whatever. It’s always interesting to know.

Don’t have much else to add other then Masuda’s statement is literally him saying something we all already knew and I don’t see why that deserves any praise.

 

[Lineair]

I also agree Masuda's statement was basically a non-statement. "Even if a specific Pokémon is not available in Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield, that does not mean it will not appear in future games," really doesn't mean anything... Denying a negative doesn't mean you're guaranteeing the opposite, it doesn't mean: "Pokemon not in Sword and Shield will all at some point reappear down the line." The fact is they can't say that, because they don't want to be held responsible for that. This statement is a lot safer for them, it gives them the option to completely remove certain Pokemon if they so choose.

I'm not going to purchase Sword or Shield until they reveal more information about Pokemon Home and if it's worth it. Because I'm not going to let myself be forced to spend money every year for a subscription because some Pokemon have no outlet, if it's not better than Pokemon Bank. Especially since Pokemon Bank deletes Pokemon after a certain time if you don't renew. -__- I don't see how Pokemon Home would be any different, so I'd like more than just that reason to keep paying for it or else it just feels like a really gross cashgrab. That's where the line is drawn for me anyway, I'd have to want to actively use Pokemon Home and have it be something fun in of itself, like maybe interacting with Pokemon and training them within Home. Like EV training and maybe even normal level grinding. Maybe even breeding? That would be great... I doubt that people would even mind much if the graphics weren't the same as Sword and Shield, especially since they said Home can be used on phone so I don't think people would expect console graphics. Then I wouldn't really mind as much.

 

[DMB1985]

What's interesting to me is how good Town looks. The environments are high quality and the animations are dynamic, especially compared to SwSh. This whole situation just seems like Gamefreak is deliberately holding back on the games by cutting corners that don't need to be cut. It'd be understandable if the animations seen in E3 were much better than the 3DS era, but they look identical imo.
I was planning on skipping these from the get go, but I'm curious about any graphical improvements in future trailers.

The graphical quality - or more the lack of it - is what makes cutting some of the Pokémon all the more disappointing. If we were getting a game that was really utilising the power of the Switch with good looking graphics and top quality animations then I could fully understand cutting some monsters from SwSh. But we're not getting that. Whilst the game does look nice in places it looks well below the standards of what I would expect from a Switch game with some dreadful animations in places (those Wingull in the Wild Area ) and it's hard to see things being improved much with just 3-4 months worth of development time left. I do wonder how someone within Game Freak could look at SwSh and think that it looks acceptable when the very same studio is working on a game with substantially more detailed environments and animations.

 

[janejane6178]

The graphical quality - or more the lack of it - is what makes cutting some of the Pokémon all the more disappointing. If we were getting a game that was really utilising the power of the Switch with good looking graphics and top quality animations then I could fully understand cutting some monsters from SwSh. But we're not getting that. Whilst the game does look nice in places it looks well below the standards of what I would expect from a Switch game with some dreadful animations in places (those Wingull in the Wild Area ) and it's hard to see things being improved much with just 3-4 months worth of development time left. I do wonder how someone within Game Freak could look at SwSh and think that it looks acceptable when the very same studio is working on a game with substantially more detailed environments and animations.

As a person who usually doesn't use older Pokemon in new gen game, Masuds's statement really made me mad: "You could see the un added Pokemon in other games"? And what if some1 cant afford to buy ALL of their next games? Wow. Shows no respect towards the fans, nor to the un added Pokemon. I am really dissapointed of him

 

[ArtFenix]

Like I said before, I am seriously considering buying these games used. The only thing that could make me get them at launch is some new really awesome feature, like Mega Evolution or Ultra Beasts or Soaring from ORAS. How sad, all of those things got removed. This buggles my mind, GF keep removing things that overwhelming majority loves and introduce new things, most of which are sub-par at best. Why not just get the ideas from past games that are still loved and desired by many and make the best Pokemon game ever? But it's GF...

What is usually the time some big new features are announced for new games? August? September? Or Dynamax and the Wild Area is all we're getting this time?

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Since World Hobby Fair has not revealed anything, it is safe to assume we won't get any new info until second or third week of July, and nothing until August after that.

Hopefully we will get most of the early route fodder in July, and don't end up with another Bunnelby situation in August(Bunnelby was revealed in August 2013 alongside Megas, you see).

 

[Emelie]

As a person who usually doesn't use older Pokemon in new gen game, Masuds's statement really made me mad: "You could see the un added Pokemon in other games"? And what if some1 cant afford to buy ALL of their next games? Wow. Shows no respect towards the fans, nor to the un added Pokemon. I am really dissapointed of him

Yeah, it's a little greedy if their reason to remove Pokémon is because they want to make more money by selling more remakes and spin-off games rather than some kind of technical limitations. At least they had a good excuse during gen 3 when it wasn't possible to connect the old Game Boy with Game Boy Advance.