Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]

[PreschoolerFromNowhere]

So you can't see how much better the sword and shield one looks??

If only they use their eyes as much as their negative side...

Let me point some part they should really notice, the mouth, not just USUM, even Let's go(not count in major cutscenes)it look like they just put texture as mouth on the face and when they talk, it look like they just swap textures around, but in Sword and Shield, it really moving around, the mouth was animated this time, you can see it better by watch the second direct when they talk about Hop and see how good it look.

And change from swap mouth textures to animted mouth moving, is that enough to fit high quality animated now?

Also if they use same movement once for Hop, you going to say all of his animation will rip out from Hau, every animation? His pokeball throwing animation are the same as Hau? His animation where he playing phone is the same as Hau? And you going to say all animation they gives to other characters are s-h-i-t-t-y rip out from gen 7 too? let me point one thing real quick, many trainers in Let's Go use same ball throwing animation but what we see so far, every trainers in Sword and Shield have their owm ball throwing animation and even two gym leader have their own Dynamax ball throwing too.

Yeah, i love to be Phoenix Wright and went all out to say this because you act like Payne.

 

[Doppelgänger]

It's not a scam because nobody is being forced to or being tricked into paying.

Scams don't involve force, that is outright robbery. Scams involve deception and that is the entire history of Pokemon, starting with the impossibility of "catching them all" in a single version of the first generation games. Splitting the Kanto dex between two games could be seen as a precursor to modern DLC, since you had to pay double the price for...10% more unique content, tops?

I understand that Satoshi Tajiri did not intend for it as a way to further monetize his product, but as a way to encourage socialization and trading. But as we saw with Ultra Sun, Ultra Moon and the "free" Mew with a Pokeball Plus, Nintendo absolutely picked up on the potential and exploited this structure.

Pokemon Home is a scam. The inability to trade back is both artificial and intentional. They will be discontinuing Bank as a way to force players to move to Home, and I don't doubt that Home will get more expensive due to "maintenance fees" in time like how the telecoms do it. Pokemon's release structure is parasitic by design.

They show you the product and you make that decision for yourself. If you still choose to buy it and feel scammed, then you've just scammed yourself.

How am I at fault, say, buying USUM, then buying LGPE and seeing that almost the entire game is gutted? How would I know the multitude of changes based on the trailers and box art? I can't return the PokeBall Plus because Nintendo designed it to have a single use transfer.

With the amount of research needed to avoid "scamming myself", I have to question the point of all the advertisements designed to tell me about the game. How are they NOT misleading, showing the same models as USUM, despite dramatically different gameplay?

It's folly to think that the customer, no matter how stupid, is at fault for expecting something entirely different from what they actually paid for and cannot return. When a customer has to do as much research as a university thesis to avoid losing their money, I'm going to blame the developer and publisher.

 

[BCVM22]

They will be discontinuing Bank as a way to force players to move to Home

Nothing says they will be doing this. The brief introductory graphic for Home specifically listed Bank as a source from which Home could receive Pokémon.

Like or dislike products all you want, but don't try and spread blatant falsehoods that can be disproven immediately and with ease just because you've convinced yourself that you're being "scammed" or whatever today's fun buzzword is.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Maybe Dexit should have its own thread, just to keep these inane, repetitive "debates" out of this thread...

 

[Ignition]

Maybe Dexit should have its own thread, just to keep these inane, repetitive "debates" out of this thread...

This. It’s almost a month old and it’s been the same tiresome arguments from both sides.

 

[Doppelgänger]

Nothing says they will be doing this. The brief introductory graphic for Home specifically listed Bank as a source from which Home could receive Pokémon.

Why should Bank continue to exist once Home is live?
Why would Nintendo continue to support legacy services for a dead platform like the 3DS, once the SS debuts on the Switch?

Does anyone remember how Dream World was euthanized 3 months after XY was released?

There will be a grace period, sure. But Bank won't be alive by this time next year.

How convenient all your Pokemon will already be in the cloud, when Bank is unplugged they'll have a short climb up to Heaven.

Like or dislike products all you want, but don't try and spread blatant falsehoods that can be disproven with the snap of a finger in the name of trying to rally support for a largely meaningless cause that was stillborn to begin with.

You sure showed me. I'm absolutely convinced Nintendo cares about my 100 kilobytes of friends who I've carried with me since Ruby and Sapphire.

 

[LordSerperior]

Scams don't involve force, that is outright robbery. Scams involve deception and that is the entire history of Pokemon, starting with the impossibility of "catching them all" in a single version of the first generation games. Splitting the Kanto dex between two games could be seen as a precursor to modern DLC, since you had to pay double the price for...10% more unique content, tops?

I understand that Satoshi Tajiri did not intend for it as a way to further monetize his product, but as a way to encourage socialization and trading. But as we saw with Ultra Sun, Ultra Moon and the "free" Mew with a Pokeball Plus, Nintendo absolutely picked up on the potential and exploited this structure.

Pokemon Home is a scam. The inability to trade back is both artificial and intentional. They will be discontinuing Bank as a way to force players to move to Home, and I don't doubt that Home will get more expensive due to "maintenance fees" in time like how the telecoms do it. Pokemon's release structure is parasitic by design.



How am I at fault, say, buying USUM, then buying LGPE and seeing that almost the entire game is gutted? How would I know the multitude of changes based on the trailers and box art? I can't return the PokeBall Plus because Nintendo designed it to have a single use transfer.

With the amount of research needed to avoid "scamming myself", I have to question the point of all the advertisements designed to tell me about the game. How are they NOT misleading, showing the same models as USUM, despite dramatically different gameplay?

It's folly to think that the customer, no matter how stupid, is at fault for expecting something entirely different from what they actually paid for and cannot return. When a customer has to do as much research as a university thesis to avoid losing their money, I'm going to blame the developer and publisher.

By that reasoning, everything in today's day and age is a scam. Marketing and advertising is a bunch of strategies to scan people and in that case I can agree that GF is guilty of these advertising strategies. But that is not specific to Pokemon that's true for everything including the food we eat and the clothes we wear and thatisnt gonna change unless you bring about a system changing revolution. Yes they are trying to get you to buy a game by exaggerating what they think is good about it. But there is a very simple way to avoid it. Buying the game after it has already been out is an option. That way you know exactly what you're buying. You don't have to trust what they tell you. There is no thesis level research involved here.

Most of the big changes for LGPE were revealed before its release. If you chose to get it at release based on USUM alone then it is kinda your fault. Similarly we have been informed of "dexit" and the "bad graphics" are also visible in te trailers. If thats enough of a turn off you can choose to not buy now. If you're unconvinced, wait till release and then decide?

 

[Marzbar]

If only they use their eyes as much as their negative side...

Let me point some part they should really notice, the mouth, not just USUM, even Let's go(not count in major cutscenes)it look like they just put texture as mouth on the face and when they talk, it look like they just swap textures around, but in Sword and Shield, it really moving around, the mouth was animated this time, you can see it better by watch the second direct when they talk about Hop and see how good it look.

And change from swap mouth textures to animted mouth moving, is that enough to fit high quality animated now?

Also if they use same movement once for Hop, you going to say all of his animation will rip out from Hau, every animation? His pokeball throwing animation are the same as Hau? His animation where he playing phone is the same as Hau? And you going to say all animation they gives to other characters are s-h-i-t-t-y rip out from gen 7 too? let me point one thing real quick, many trainers in Let's Go use same ball throwing animation but what we see so far, every trainers in Sword and Shield have their owm ball throwing animation and even two gym leader have their own Dynamax ball throwing too.

Yeah, i love to be Phoenix Wright and went all out to say this because you act like Payne.

Yeah maybe, but the Pokémon battle animations are still outdated, lame, lazy and tedious.

 

[Doppelgänger]

By that reasoning, everything in today's day and age is a scam.

No, it's not. That's a very cynical take.

Laws exist to protect consumers from misleading advertisements. Lawsuits happen all the time when disgruntled customers challenge the accuracy of service provider's advertisements. That's why large companies have dedicated legal teams. It's why Nintendo has that "Not actual gameplay footage" watermark on their Smash ads as a precautionary disclaimer.

Nintendo generally doesn't have to worry about legal complaints, because its target audience is children, who cannot fight back. But you could absolutely take Nintendo to small claims if you wanted to! The filing fee might be more than the game, but I would wager Nintendo settles rather than lets the negative publicity spiral out of control.

Also, this is slightly off-topic. What other companies do isn't relevant to Nintendo or Sword and Shield., and institutionalized bad practices do not mean those practices are any less acceptable or immoral.

Buying the game after it has already been out is an option. That way you know exactly what you're buying. You don't have to trust what they tell you. There is no thesis level research involved here.

This is true, but the Pokeball Plus is just the latest example of DRM designed to combat this. You and I both know game companies hate the secondary market with a burning passion. So, I don't know how long buying used will still be viable, but it's something I recommend to anyone who is wary of being deceived.

Most of the big changes for LGPE were revealed before its release. If you chose to get it at release based on USUM alone then it is kinda your fault.

I don't agree with this. When I program phones, I have to research FCC documents as primary sources to know what hardware they have, because even official press releases from the OEM or carrier have inaccurate information. It's common sense that when a manufacturer or service provider advertises something, they tend to avoid talking about what an item doesn't have or what a service doesn't do.

LGPE did not make the removal of abilities and items the focus of its marketing campaign, because the intended target of the game - Go players, or genwunners - would be none the wiser that such features even existed.

 

[LordSerperior]

No, it's not. That's a very cynical take.

Laws exist to protect consumers from misleading advertisements. Lawsuits happen all the time when disgruntled customers challenge the accuracy of service provider's advertisements. That's why large companies have dedicated legal teams. It's why Nintendo has that "Not actual gameplay footage" watermark on their Smash ads as a precautionary disclaimer.

Nintendo generally doesn't have to worry about legal complaints, because its target audience is children, who cannot fight back. But you could absolutely take Nintendo to small claims if you wanted to! The filing fee might be more than the game, but I would wager Nintendo settles rather than lets the negative publicity spiral out of control.

Also, this is slightly off-topic. What other companies do isn't relevant to Nintendo or Sword and Shield., and institutionalized bad practices do not mean those practices are any less acceptable or immoral.



This is true, but the Pokeball Plus is just the latest example of DRM designed to combat this. You and I both know game companies hate the secondary market with a burning passion. So, I don't know how long buying used will still be viable, but it's something I recommend to anyone who is wary of being deceived.



I don't agree with this. When I program phones, I have to research FCC documents as primary sources to know what hardware they have, because even official press releases from the OEM or carrier have inaccurate information. It's common sense that when a manufacturer or service provider advertises something, they tend to avoid talking about what an item doesn't have or what a service doesn't do.

LGPE did not make the removal of abilities and items the focus of its marketing campaign, because the intended target of the game - Go players, or genwunners - would be none the wiser that such features even existed.

Nintendo isn't giving anyone outright false information. Just exaggerating parts they think people will like and downplaying those they feel will be unpopular. Which is standard in advertising like you pointed out yourself towards the end of your post.

I agree they didn't make a big deal about what features are missing in LGPE but we were made aware of the fact that the dex was going to be limited and that we wouldn't be battling wild pokemon. I'm not sure if the items and abilities weren't mentioned at all or just downplayed. But they said enough for me to wait till release to know exactly what was in the game before making my decision.

All I'm trying to say is everyone still has the choice to make their decision. Our money is still our own and you can do what you feel is right regardless of the marketing campaigns. But calling other people (who probably have weighed out the pros and cons for themselves at this point) brain dead worshippers or repeating the same thing to them to change their minds isn't helping anyone. And I'd say the same about people convincing people to try the game out before ruling it out. These discussions are just redundant at this point and don't need to brought up every other post.

 

[WhiteBlair]

You are dismissing gameplay and story, the only two essential elements of a role playing game, while praising graphics and presentation, elements essential only to good television.

I might remind that the ancestor of role playing games, Dungeons & Dragons, had no graphics. In a best case scenario there was a Monster Manual with crude drawings suggesting what the monsters looked like. Those creatures and lands were animated by the imagination, which, along with restraint, seems sorely lacking in gamers today.

No, I don't. Gameplay had a smooth transition from sprites to 3D. The world was much easier to explore due to Rolling Skates. We were introduced Super Training, horde battles and easier breeding techniques to tie people more into the online side of Pokémon. If it wasn't for Gen 6, I wouldn't meet with one of the most enjoyable features for me in the game: breeding.

Weather system was completely changed, you were no longer using rain/sand teams' permanent in-battle effect. Mega Evolutions turned already-marketable Pokémon into a money bank: Mega-Charizard, Gengar, Gardevoir and many more, which contributed to the sales of franchise through VG, TGC and figurines. Likes of Kangaskhan and Mawile were revived from the death. Even Battle Maison had a turn-based system for you to save at anytime and continue doing something else without being locked to the seven-streak battle of previous facilities.

If I'd ever judge XY for something, that's how bland the ending for Team Flare was. Xerneas and Yveltal should have been given a better plot given they represent life and death. Still, my subjective opinion is that XY had one of the best replayability value in the series among 3DS games and nowhere near a quality-defect compared to BW2.

 

[Doppelgänger]

repeating the same thing to them to change their minds isn't helping anyone. And I'd say the same about people convincing people to try the game out before ruling it out. These discussions are just redundant at this point and don't need to brought up every other post.

My thoughts are my own and are my original ideas. It comes from my experience with Pokemon over the past 21 years along with my perspective working in the world of adults.I had almost no presence in this topic before Monday's trailer.

If you're seeing similar ideas repeated ad nauseum, I would advise taking a step back to consider why independent sources are drawing the same conclusions.

 

[Leonhart]

There'd better be a Dark gym, and not a version exclusive. It'd just be criminal to make Dark's first gym an exclusive...

I don't even like the idea of version exclusive Gyms in general. I remember hoping that these games would have more version exclusive content a week ago, but I didn't think that Game Freak would make version exclusive Gym Leaders again. I didn't like that in Black and White, and I'm not warming up to that idea now either.

 

[LordSerperior]

My thoughts are my own and are my original ideas. It comes from my experience with Pokemon over the past 21 years along with my perspective working in the world of adults.I had almost no presence in this topic before Monday's trailer.

If you're seeing similar ideas repeated ad nauseum, I would advise taking a step back to consider why independent sources are drawing the same conclusions.

I never targetted you. My original post did not quote anyone. It was a general statement given the posts on the thread. I don't even know how anything I said implies that I view your ideas as unoriginal or not your own?

Again I don't have a problem with anyone having the opinion or voicing it out. I get where people are coming from even if I don't agree with them at all. I just said it's annoying when it is brough up over and over again (sometimes in discussions that don't involve it) and just to convince people who don't agree and haven't after multiple attempts at convincing. The topic has been discussed to death and all arguments have been made. Now it just feels pointless and an excuse to argue. Also, just to be clear, none of this is specifically directed at you.

 

[yefluke]

Wondering how the traditional route and wild area coexist?

Are all normal routes connecting to wild area? Can't seem to find the story route from the map.
and Milo revealed as first gym confused me since the Milo town is quite far from the starter town.

 

[Creyk]

Wondering how the traditional route and wild area coexist?

Are all normal routes connecting to wild area?.

No it will have some entrances like other central places but there will be lots of routes that are not connected to it. Maybe many towns will have multiple entrances / exits and one of them will be the one leading you to the wild area

 

[Creyk]

Maybe Dexit should have its own thread, just to keep these inane, repetitive "debates" out of this thread...

This. It’s almost a month old and it’s been the same tiresome arguments from both sides.

Well it's a big deal.
Silently rolling over and accepting it is really not the action that should be encouraged in this case.

 

[ArtFenix]

For whatever unknown reason making games for the Switch takes a lot more time than for the 3DS. And for ORAS they could reuse all the pokémon and the animations and everything from XY, not so much for Sinnoh remakes unless by some magical miracle the entire Sinnoh dex is already in Galar.

I'm detecting sarcasm))
Contrary to what some might think, they can reuse all the Pokemon and the animations and everything from XY for Sinnoh remakes just the same. In fact, they did exactly that with Sword and Shield, e.g. reused the animations and models.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Well it's a big deal.
Silently rolling over and accepting it is really not the action that should be encouraged in this case.

I see. And repeating the same little handful of points and counterpoints over and over and over ad nauseam is productive how exactly? This debate has been done to death already, anything constructive has already been said multiple times over. At this point continuing this "debate" is useless and stifles conversations that are actually relevant to the topic at hand (and haven't been milked for everything they're worth already).

 

[SBaby]

I see. And repeating the same little handful of points and counterpoints over and over and over ad nauseam is productive how exactly? This debate has been done to death already, anything constructive has already been said multiple times over. At this point continuing this "debate" is useless and stifles conversations that are actually relevant to the topic at hand (and haven't been milked for everything they're worth already).

Well, it is better than having it on every topic on this forum, which is what will end up happening. This is too big to shut down, without major backlash on and off this site. If the site tries to stifle the conversation (or looks like it's trying to), it makes it look like serebii endorses their decision (even if it's not the case). Like I've said, this is the first time there's ever been something this controversial and polarizing in the Pokémon series, and I don't think people here are used to dealing with it.

Anyway, there is a video that I think is probably one of the least biased videos I've seen on the subject since this started. Rather than getting too far back into talking about the issue, it's probably better to watch this, since it says it all.

No it will have some entrances like other central places but there will be lots of routes that are not connected to it. Maybe many towns will have multiple entrances / exits and one of them will be the one leading you to the wild area

The way I understand it, the Wild Area is essentially the game's version of the Safari Zone from previous Gens, in that it isn't accessible until late in the game, and the rest of the game's Routes are still hallways like we see in traditional Pokémon games. The only difference here is that it connects most of the towns, which tells me that you'll need a late game item to access it (so likely there will be some kind of building or checkpoint in each of the connecting towns that you need to pass through to get to the Wild Area). It could even be an item that the version-exclusive Gym Leader gives you for beating them...

A less likely, but still fun way it could be used is to have each town require you to present the checkpoint with the town's Gym Badge to access the Wild Area on their side. This way, you can get to it early, but you can't use it to sequence break, since you'd still need the other Badges to access later towns. In that way, the Wild Area could be like Victory Road. You can get to it early, but until you get all eight Badges, you can't go to the League.