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Does this idea seem at all plausible to you?


  • Total voters
    189

ArtFenix

Well-Known Member
I don't know. For all I know the Switch might just be an inefficient (insert profanity here) to work with making it a lot more time-consuming, it's not my expertise. All I know is that GameFreak says they don't have the time anymore and that it pains them so much to have to do Dexit. Of course it's a matter of priorities, but I don't think they're just doing nothing at all instead.


I can explain my own posts just fine, don't need another interpreter in between... especially as I didn't intend it to be sarcastic. Cynical maybe, but not sarcastic.
At the time of its release, Switch got quite some praise from third party developers, who were saying the platform is surprisingly easy to develop for. And those were third party developers. You would think GameFreak, being Nintendo's first party (pretty much) would know how to make games for the system. You can bet they got the devkits way earlier than any third party guys.
You shouldn't trust everything GameFreak say, especially after all they've said recently. I'm operating with facts, the rest are assumptions and the like and the fact is they created over 720 models from scratch along with animations and textures for XY, which came out a year after B2W2. That's a fact.


I don’t know too much about game development, but I can tell you that implementing models takes more work than a “copy/paste”.
Now you're just nutpicking. You know exactly what I mean.

Maybe has to do with the fact that some people always think game development is much simpler than it actually is?
Are you implying GameFreak are some novice unexperienced developers? They've been making Pokemon games since mid-90s! And they certainly have all resources to hire more people to make pretty much anything they need to make the games as best as they can be.
 

Zadent

Well-Known Member
Evidently, we have different definitions of what "Gorgeous 3D" is, because I think SwSh look average at best and very far from gorgeous.

Why do people repeat "requires a lot of work" all the time anyway? It's game development, it's what they do! It's their job!

I mean, Possibly but also compared to Gen 4, and compared to Gen 7, SwSh is looking really good as of the last trailer. Sure, it’s not BotW or Witcher 3, but should it be? That’s not for me to answer. I find it hard to argue that their visual work has not improved over the years.

But it is a lot of work. Just cause it’s what they do and it’s their job doesn’t make it less work. A part of my job is a lot of intensive work. Yeah, it’s my job, but still is a lot of work.

Texturing and remodeling can be a lot of work, factoring in not just length and width, but emphasizing depth and height in 3D where 2D might not have had as much trouble. Like, Mt. Coronet sounds like it needs to be huge and pretty visible, but I could be overestimating it’s height. Modeling can be a challenge in itself depending on what you’re making, and then texturing on top of that, adding depth to the environment, the characters, the cutscenes. Add in that it’d be less than a year from now that they would have to start showing trailers and..with one main team currently off pokemon and no news otherwise of a new game project starting, I’m going with it’s not likely.

Honestly, I’m expecting a spin-off from another company to take point next year to allow dev time on the next main game, whatever that is. Who knows, they might even push Sinnoh off to the Let’s Go series instead.
 

ArtFenix

Well-Known Member
compared to Gen 4, and compared to Gen 7, SwSh is looking really good
Are you serious? :D
DUH! Of course Sword/Shield looks better than Gen IV or Gen VII. Switch is not a 3DS and it's infinitely more powerful than the DS.

Sure, it’s not BotW or Witcher 3, but should it be?
Why shouldn't it? Those games don't belong to the world's biggest media franchise, which costs billions! Why would you NOT want SwSh to look like those games? Money's clearly not the issue.

Oh god. Then I agree with ArtFenix’s initial reply to it. Sorry for the confusion.

Great now the SwSh critics are fighting amongst themselves. It’s sunk to a new low :p

I think I need a new hobby. Taking any video game suggestions :D
May I suggest Shin Megami Tensei or Persona (which is basically a spin-off of SMT)? Or Zelda? Or Xenoblade? Etrian Odyssey? Atelier? Disgaea? Digimon? Dragon Quest? I have quite a few more to suggest. :D
 
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Zadent

Well-Known Member
Are you serious? :D
DUH! Of course Sword/Shield looks better than Gen IV or Gen VII. Switch is not a 3DS and it's infinitely more powerful than the DS.

Alright, with that reaction. I’m out. Yes it’s stronger, and yes they obviously look better. But that’s my point. As far as Pokemon goes, these are beautiful, But I honestly have lower expectations because, to me, graphics don’t make or break a game. I won’t compare it to BotW or other games that have different scopes in mind. But I’ll look back and see they improved, and keep improving. To me, SwSh as of the last video looks very good, and to get Sinnoh to that level will take more time than they now have, in my opinion.

Why shouldn't it? Those games don't belong to the world's biggest media franchise, which costs billions! Why would you NOT want SwSh to look like those games? Money's clearly not the issue.

Because each game has different priorities, and I wouldn’t want those to come at a cost to other elements of pokemon. The battles, the story, the feel of the world.

We also don’t know the behind the scenes when it comes to money either. Remember, Pokemon is successful, Game Freak only owns 1/3 of it though, and their budget may not always be the best since funds need to go to other things as well.
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
At the time of its release, Switch got quite some praise from third party developers, who were saying the platform is surprisingly easy to develop for. And those were third party developers. You would think GameFreak, being Nintendo's first party (pretty much) would know how to make games for the system. You can bet they got the devkits way earlier than any third party guys.
You shouldn't trust everything GameFreak say, especially after all they've said recently. I'm operating with facts, the rest are assumptions and the like and the fact is they created over 720 models from scratch along with animations and textures for XY, which came out a year after B2W2. That's a fact.



Now you're just nutpicking. You know exactly what I mean.


Are you implying GameFreak are some novice unexperienced developers? They've been making Pokemon games since mid-90s! And they certainly have all resources to hire more people to make pretty much anything they need to make the games as best as they can be.
Hiring isn’t all that simple. You have to go through the whole interview process among others stuff. Just taking somebody out of the blue to do immediate work is dumb.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Are you implying GameFreak are some novice unexperienced developers? They've been making Pokemon games since mid-90s! And they certainly have all resources to hire more people to make pretty much anything they need to make the games as best as they can be.

Where did I imply this? I’m just saying, game development’s hard. It feels like every other week there’s an article revealing that some huge AAA gaming company works their employees to the bone to get their games out.
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
I don’t know if this is weird, but the new Switch Lite actually got me a bit more excited for this game. A fresh experience on a fresh system, handheld just like the classics (not that I have anything against playing on my TV too once in a while). It might not be totally perfect - I know there’s still some debate about animations and stuff and I recognize those flaws - but it’ll be fun nonetheless.
 

ArtFenix

Well-Known Member
Hiring isn’t all that simple. You have to go through the whole interview process among others stuff. Just taking somebody out of the blue to do immediate work is dumb.
That's what the teams of Zelda: Breath of the Wild did (and are doing again), that's what Monolith Soft are doing. That's what the devs of Metroid Prime 4 are doing. Again, stop using "but it's too hard and not simple at all" excuse. It's Pokemon! They sure as heck can afford hiring armies of devs. And they had plenty of time since Gen VII to do so.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Well it's a big deal.
Silently rolling over and accepting it is really not the action that should be encouraged in this case.
I dislike the decision as much as the next fan. And I’m not trying to silence anyone because I honestly don’t care about this entire situation as both sides have talked the controversy to death. I doubt arguing about the National Dex on a forum gives any progression to fixing the problem. People arguing about graphics, what makes a Pokèmon fan, is the game worth the $60, and every other topic stemmed from this has become repetitive

@Divine Retribution pretty much summed it up in their reply to your post but I think it’s tiresome coming back to this thread after having a decent amount of news come out of nowhere just for it to slowly shift towards the topic that got the thread locked. Mods have said shift this to PMs and that’s really the best solution. Nothing has changed since E3 so what’s there to continue arguing about?

TL; DR: Everyone, both those who are against Dexit & those who don’t care, have really beaten the dead horse that is the National Dex controversy
 

Cloud5001

Well-Known Member
At the time of its release, Switch got quite some praise from third party developers, who were saying the platform is surprisingly easy to develop for. And those were third party developers. You would think GameFreak, being Nintendo's first party (pretty much) would know how to make games for the system. You can bet they got the devkits way earlier than any third party guys.
You shouldn't trust everything GameFreak say, especially after all they've said recently. I'm operating with facts, the rest are assumptions and the like and the fact is they created over 720 models from scratch along with animations and textures for XY, which came out a year after B2W2. That's a fact.



Now you're just nutpicking. You know exactly what I mean.


Are you implying GameFreak are some novice unexperienced developers? They've been making Pokemon games since mid-90s! And they certainly have all resources to hire more people to make pretty much anything they need to make the games as best as they can be.

No what's being said is that you don't know crap about game development, and so you have no room to claim something should be "easy" to do. Look up any good game's development history and you'll find stories of things not going the way the developers planned or things taking longer than they planned. Stuff happens and content needs to end up getting cut, those cut things might have been ideas the creators really wanted in the game. No it would not be easy to move over ALL of the models from 3ds to the switch, I know it can't be easy. Your also leaving out things their also trying to program into the game ONTOP of the models. I've said it before, but the wild area looks like a NIGHTMARE to code and program. I can only imagine how many hours of frustration that one area alone could have caused the developers.
 

ArtFenix

Well-Known Member
No what's being said is that you don't know crap about game development, and so you have no room to claim something should be "easy" to do. Look up any good game's development history and you'll find stories of things not going the way the developers planned or things taking longer than they planned. Stuff happens and content needs to end up getting cut, those cut things might have been ideas the creators really wanted in the game. No it would not be easy to move over ALL of the models from 3ds to the switch, I know it can't be easy. Your also leaving out things their also trying to program into the game ONTOP of the models. I've said it before, but the wild area looks like a NIGHTMARE to code and program. I can only imagine how many hours of frustration that one area alone could have caused the developers.
Imagine games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Xenoblade exist. All huge (and I mean, HUGE) open world games. Must have been incredibly hard to develop them. Those devs must have had way more budgets to make those games...Oh wait, Pokemon is actually the most expensive franchise? Mind blowing.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Marzbar said:
They need to start from scratch and make a better game. Sure, put the B team on other projects and other Pokémon games. But take your time and don’t rush out cut and pasted games every year.

I don't like the cut and paste animation comparison that someone posted previously that showed Hau and Hop's movements being identical since it does look rather lazy, but I can see why Game Freak took that shortcut given that they're supposedly short-handed at the moment. The games are due for release this autumn, so the staff had to make do with whatever they could I guess.
 

Cloud5001

Well-Known Member
Imagine games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Xenoblade exist. All huge (and I mean, HUGE) open world games. Must be incredibly hard to develop them. Those devs must have had way more budgets to make those games...Oh wait, Pokemon is actually the most expensive franchise? Mind blowing.

Except that this is gamefreak's first ever game on a console no let's go doesn't count that was emulating the style of Pokémon go and that shows very much in those two games. This is their first REAL attempt at making a console game for the switch, it is also dead obvious to me their working with a new game engine and what that means that assets they had needed to be recreated from the ground up. Even if they could use the same pokemon models exactly, they still needed to program and code every single thing about each Pokémon such as the Movesets. Ontop of that in order the models made for the 3ds would be very small. So in addition to needing to mess with them for the two new features they had to upscale them in general so they wouldn't be tiny dots on the ground. That includes remaking the textures of every Pokémon so their not blurry because if you try to size up a small image or model without changing anything it get's blurry. Then there's all of the buildings and people that needed to be created for the envoirnment. So like I said, you know jack about game development.
 

DMB1985

Well-Known Member
No what's being said is that you don't know crap about game development, and so you have no room to claim something should be "easy" to do. Look up any good game's development history and you'll find stories of things not going the way the developers planned or things taking longer than they planned. Stuff happens and content needs to end up getting cut, those cut things might have been ideas the creators really wanted in the game. No it would not be easy to move over ALL of the models from 3ds to the switch, I know it can't be easy. Your also leaving out things their also trying to program into the game ONTOP of the models. I've said it before, but the wild area looks like a NIGHTMARE to code and program. I can only imagine how many hours of frustration that one area alone could have caused the developers.

The Pokémon models were designed with future proofing in mind so it really isn't going to be much more work then a copy and past job to get them from one console. They would probably have had to touch them up a bit but the work required would have been nowhere near the level of work required to design the models from scratch as was required with X and Y.

And no one is actually pretending game development is easy. We know it's a highly complicated job. But that doesn't excuse the clear corner cutting that has been going on with SwSh. GameFreak will have had the devkit for the Switch since 2015, possibly even earlier. They have had plenty of time to get the required resources to make the jump from developing for the 3DS to the Switch yet given the below standard graphics and poor quality and recycled animations, it's clear that they haven't planned for the jump, resulting in corners clearly being cut with the development.
 

ArtFenix

Well-Known Member
Except that this is gamefreak's first ever game on a console no let's go doesn't count that was emulating the style of Pokémon go and that shows very much in those two games. This is their first REAL attempt at making a console game for the switch, it is also dead obvious to me their working with a new game engine and what that means that assets they had needed to be recreated from the ground up. Even if they could use the same pokemon models exactly, they still needed to program and code every single thing about each Pokémon such as the Movesets. Ontop of that in order the models made for the 3ds would be very small. So in addition to needing to mess with them for the two new features they had to upscale them in general so they wouldn't be tiny dots on the ground. That includes remaking the textures of every Pokémon so their not blurry because if you try to size up a small image or model without changing anything it get's blurry. Then there's all of the buildings and people that needed to be created for the envoirnment. So like I said, you know jack about game development.
Ahaha, if I know jack about game development, you seem to know even less.
Edit: Pretty much what DMB1985 said. He and Sapphire (next post) below obviously know jack about game development, just like myself. :D
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
Weren’t most of all of the models in the sixth and seventh generation pretty thoroughly future-proofed? They’re higher in resolution natively than what the 3DS displayed, and the games could be pretty efficiently displayed in HD on the right hardware. People called like two years ago that this future-proofing was more or less specifically to prep for Switch display. I don’t think they actually had to do almost anything with the models themselves - there’s no scaling up to do when they were scaled down by the 3DS’s resolution in the first place.

Edit: Yep, looks like I was on the right track.
 

Zadent

Well-Known Member
The Pokémon models were designed with future proofing in mind so it really isn't going to be much more work then a copy and past job to get them from one console. They would probably have had to touch them up a bit but the work required would have been nowhere near the level of work required to design the models from scratch as was required with X and Y.

And no one is actually pretending game development is easy. We know it's a highly complicated job. But that doesn't excuse the clear corner cutting that has been going on with SwSh. GameFreak will have had the devkit for the Switch since 2015, possibly even earlier. They have had plenty of time to get the required resources to make the jump from developing for the 3DS to the Switch yet given the below standard graphics and poor quality and recycled animations, it's clear that they haven't planned for the jump, resulting in corners clearly being cut with the development.

I feel it’s important to note that things change. They claimed they were future proofed at XY, but that was before the Switch was even a thing at least to the public. Suddenly, there’s the Switch, and as more games went to it, it became more the staple and the 3DS was pretty much done. We don’t know the full difference between the 3DS and the Switch’s engines, or going from handheld to a bigger console, so we don’t know what all they actually had to do for models without more details.

Yes the models look the same. But it’s still entirely possible they needed recreated rather than just copy paste due to those differences.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Except that this is gamefreak's first ever game on a console no let's go doesn't count that was emulating the style of Pokémon go and that shows very much in those two games. This is their first REAL attempt at making a console game for the switch, it is also dead obvious to me their working with a new game engine and what that means that assets they had needed to be recreated from the ground up. Even if they could use the same pokemon models exactly, they still needed to program and code every single thing about each Pokémon such as the Movesets. Ontop of that in order the models made for the 3ds would be very small. So in addition to needing to mess with them for the two new features they had to upscale them in general so they wouldn't be tiny dots on the ground. That includes remaking the textures of every Pokémon so their not blurry because if you try to size up a small image or model without changing anything it get's blurry. Then there's all of the buildings and people that needed to be created for the envoirnment. So like I said, you know jack about game development.
Not how it works. Movesets aren't newly programmed in, they're just ported over and touched up here and there. Let's Go counts. It's a main series game on the Switch. And Let's Go proved that they port these things over, every single pokémon from #1 to #809 has data in Let's Go. People can find stuff like level-up moves, TM compatibility, everything, it's all there in Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee even for pokémon like Blaziken and Kyogre. Suggesting that they have to reprogram and code every single thing like that is just blatantly wrong. Touch up and rebalance, sure, but that's just working in a UI, checkboxes, selecting moves from the list and adding them with a level, not actual coding.

Weren’t most of all of the models in the sixth and seventh generation pretty thoroughly future-proofed? They’re higher in resolution natively than what the 3DS displayed, and the games could be pretty efficiently displayed in HD on the right hardware. People called like two years ago that this future-proofing was more or less specifically to prep for Switch display. I don’t think they actually had to do almost anything with the models themselves - there’s no scaling up to do when they were scaled down by the 3DS’s resolution in the first place.
I think so yes, the high polygon models were often cited as the cause why the battles lagged on the slower 3DS systems in doubles or Royals.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
I feel it’s important to note that things change. They claimed they were future proofed at XY, but that was before the Switch was even a thing at least to the public. Suddenly, there’s the Switch, and as more games went to it, it became more the staple and the 3DS was pretty much done. We don’t know the full difference between the 3DS and the Switch’s engines, or going from handheld to a bigger console, so we don’t know what all they actually had to do for models without more details.

Yes the models look the same. But it’s still entirely possible they needed recreated rather than just copy paste due to those differences.

Eh, I’m a bit doubtful this was the case. If the models ran fine on the 3DS, then I can’t see why they would have issues on the Switch.
 

ArtFenix

Well-Known Member
Except that this is gamefreak's first ever game on a console no let's go doesn't count that was emulating the style of Pokémon go
The only thing from Pokemon GO was catching mechanic. The rest was exactly what previous Pokemon games were like.

I feel it’s important to note that things change. They claimed they were future proofed at XY, but that was before the Switch was even a thing at least to the public. Suddenly, there’s the Switch, and as more games went to it, it became more the staple and the 3DS was pretty much done. We don’t know the full difference between the 3DS and the Switch’s engines, or going from handheld to a bigger console, so we don’t know what all they actually had to do for models without more details.

Yes the models look the same. But it’s still entirely possible they needed recreated rather than just copy paste due to those differences.
Nice try but no. The Switch most definitely didn't just suddenly materialize. GF being first party developers, surely had the devkits which is what me and DMB1985 said in....................

Ah, screw that. Nevermind. I'm done. I don't know jack about game development anyway. Have a nice day. :)
 
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