Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]

[Cloud5001]

The Pokémon models were designed with future proofing in mind so it really isn't going to be much more work then a copy and past job to get them from one console. They would probably have had to touch them up a bit but the work required would have been nowhere near the level of work required to design the models from scratch as was required with X and Y.

And no one is actually pretending game development is easy. We know it's a highly complicated job. But that doesn't excuse the clear corner cutting that has been going on with SwSh. GameFreak will have had the devkit for the Switch since 2015, possibly even earlier. They have had plenty of time to get the required resources to make the jump from developing for the 3DS to the Switch yet given the below standard graphics and poor quality and recycled animations, it's clear that they haven't planned for the jump, resulting in corners clearly being cut with the development.

"And no one is actually pretending game development is easy. We know it's a highly complicated job. But that doesn't excuse the clear corner cutting that has been going on with SwSh." So you claim to understand and then proceed to prove my point good job, again you really don't know anything and are just arrogantly assuming you have the easy quick fix solutions to this. I can claim to know because I'm actually STUDYING to be a developer, and just from the brief intro I've gotten with my class I can confirm it's not nearly as easy as an outsider looking in thinks it is. No matter how much you complain or whine, you don't really understand what it takes to make a game.

You also don't understand that sometimes it isn't even up to the games director when something get's cut. That can also come from higher ups who again don't actually work on a game and just care about the money. We don't know the full story because I doubt anyone here actually works for Gamefreak. All of the complaints and contervasery are all summed up as this. You hate that the national dex is gone, and instead of dealing with that your looking for any excuse you can think of to spite them and anyone else who's ok with this decision. You want to tear them down and make them hurt because they dared to mess with your favorite toys. Exactly like a two year old would do, every bs vauge argument I've gotten just makes me more convinced of that.

I'm tired of seeing Conterovesary everywhere I so much as blink. I'm sick to death of it and often it comes from very stupid and minor things like this. I enjoy Pokémon, that's my right and your not going to change that get that through your stupid head.

 

[Sαpphire]

I think so yes, the high polygon models were often cited as the cause why the battles lagged on the slower 3DS systems in doubles or Royals.

Yeah, I’m starting to remember the havoc wreaked on frame rates and command processing when multiple Moltres were out at once.

They shouldn’t have had to do anything but develop new models for the new species for SwSh.

 

[anjunajake]

As for what other people have said about people having negative opinions, I really don’t like being told we have “an agenda”. I have no idea what you’re implying. If trying to get better quality Pokémon games to happen, that are definitely possible of happening, then sure, I guess I have an agenda?? And don’t even get me started on the “people with that kind of thought process” comment. It’s just a simple case of analyzing what the companies are selling us and hypothetically discussing how it could be improved. No agenda. No messed up thought process. Just valid and reasonable problem solving.

I cannot echo this sentiment enough. You can love something, and a be a fan of it while still being critical of it and holding it to the highest standard. I'm relatively new to this forum but there seems to be this mindset that you can't be critical of the game without people acting like you're some extremist. Sure there's plenty of toxicity out there, but I haven't necessarily seen any in this thread . All discussion has seemed healthy for the most part(edit, spoke too soon on that.... see a couple post up, lol) . I also understand the sentiment that all valid points have probably been made on both sides, but this is a Pokemon Sword and Shield discussion isn't it? Who is anyone to silence anyone elses thoughts or opinions on the game. Sure it would be nice if we could all just rave about how cute Yamper is, or how exciting ___ feature is but for many people there's far more pressing matters to them that they would like addressed before they even worry stuff like that.

Honest question: When you guys call GameFreak “lazy”, what do you honestly think is going on at their workplace? Do you think the animators just do nothing all day and eat chips or something?

I don't think they're necessarily lazy. They're just spread too shin, and prioritizing wrong. Town should and whatever that other game is should have been postponed until after SWSH. All allotted resources should have been given to their flagship titles debut on the Switch.
Obviously hiring more people may or may not be a sensible/easy solution for them, that I don't know. But they seem to feel comfortable spreading their development team into side projects and letting Pokemon take a secondary back burner and that's probably what's wrong. I doubt they were doing that when they built XY from the ground up.

I'm betting no one would be complaining about the graphics if the Dex cut issue didn't exist. Except for maybe that one tree.

That's because high quality graphics and animation were cited as the reason for dexit. Yet what we've seen is very middle of the road. So we're left thinking what was the point?

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

500 is absolute garbage.

500 is more than we've ever had in a regional dex. What are you talking about? lol

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

All of the complaints and contervasery are all summed up as this. You hate that the national dex is gone, and instead of dealing with that your looking for any excuse you can think of to spite them and anyone else who's ok with this decision. You want to tear them down and make them hurt because they dared to mess with your favorite toys. Exactly like a two year old would do, every bs vauge argument I've gotten just makes me more convinced of that.

I'm tired of seeing Conterovesary everywhere I so much as blink. I'm sick to death of it and often it comes from very stupid and minor things like this. I enjoy Pokémon, that's my right and your not going to change that get that through your stupid head.

So you're going to add to toxicity by resorting to name-calling and negatively filling in other people's motivations? You're taking the low road here.

 

[LordSerperior]

Imagine games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Xenoblade exist. All huge (and I mean, HUGE) open world games. Must have been incredibly hard to develop them. Those devs must have had way more budgets to make those games...Oh wait, Pokemon is actually the most expensive franchise? Mind blowing.

Great, so you've figured it out. GameFreak doesn't want to put in the effort for the game and won't do for any of the future games. They don't care what the fans think and are just here to make easy money. They don't care about the criticism. They don't see the need to acknowledge or address it. And hypothetically everyone here agrees with you. You've argued with and convinced everyone! So what now? What do you think you will have achieved? Absolutely nothing. The game still comes out when it comes in the same form. This whole exercise is pointless! Not buying the game is the only thing you can do that might have any impact. And people who don't see it that way will still buy it regardless of you writing the same thing every 5 minutes.

Edit: I love how after calling people sheep, mindless worshippers, people with lower standards, incapable of rational thought, unintelligent and what not, people will feel they are being attacked when they are called out on their name calling.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

500 is more than we've ever had in a regional dex. What are you talking about? lol

Let's be honest, it's only 62% or so of USUM's diversity in pokémon that you could use. Pressing matter is more pokémon availability and not so much which ones happen to have a local dex entry.

 

[Cloud5001]

Yeah you know what I'm done with this, this whole damn thing has made this site a dumpster fire. I'm taking my own advince and removing myself from this crap. All of this is just time and energy I'd rather be spending getting excited for the new games. Not debating with some whinning two year olds who are upset their bottle was taken.

 

[Hunter Zolomon]

Insults and personal attacks will not be tolerated in here. I won't have one problem shutting this thread down. Any users throwing around insults will be shown the way out. That's how this thread got locked the first time around. Eveyone was warned on multiple occasions to stop their bickering, and people failed to follow the rules.

This is the final warning. Please just follow the rules. If I have to come in here again and give this same regurgitated speech I'll be locking the thread.

 

[ArtFenix]

Great, so you've figured it out. GameFreak doesn't want to put in the effort for the game and won't do for any of the future games. They don't care what the fans think and are just here to make easy money. They don't care about the criticism. They don't see the need to acknowledge or address it. And hypothetically everyone here agrees with you. You've argued with and convinced everyone! So what now? What do you think you will have achieved? Absolutely nothing. The game still comes out when it comes in the same form. This whole exercise is pointless! Not buying the game is the only thing you can do that might have any impact. And people who don't see it that way will still buy it regardless of you writing the same thing every 5 minutes.

I could say the same about you lot praising new Pokemon or new features (or graphics, lol xD). That won't change anything either, but you're still doing that, are you not? This is the discussion forum and there's nothing to discuss if everybody will parrot each other and praise GameFreak like some religious sect.
Now I'm done. Hope there's some truly exciting news coming next month, because I've yet to see anything outstanding so far, sadly. And this is the first time I'm feeling this way.

 

[Sαpphire]

Wait. I think I’m getting a little lost here.

They’ve said that graphical improvements and some other things are the reason for limiting old species in the game, or “Dexit” I suppose. There seems to be some debate over whether those improvements are at all visible yet, and whether they ever will be.

The models of those old species, though, are HD and future-proof. The data for those species is clearly easy to retain and associate with them by porting forward - this has happened almost every new generation and I think I saw someone mention it’s even there in LGPE. Tweaks and adjustments to things like move pools don’t seem difficult.

So if porting forward these species is relatively easy, and we’re not all in agreement that improvements for which that porting fell by the wayside are actually apparent... what is the point of not including things?

I’m kind of starting to lose track of understanding just why the decision was made and I’m starting to see eye-to-eye with some of the more critical analyses of the situation. I understand software development is hard (I do it every day), and I understand that game development specifically can be even harder, but... it doesn’t seem like including old species would have actually been difficult at all from what we know of past games and past development cycles.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Wait. I think I’m getting a little lost here.

They’ve said that graphical improvements and some other things are the reason for limiting old species in the game, or “Dexit” I suppose. There seems to be some debate over whether those improvements are at all visible yet, and whether they ever will be.

The models of those old species, though, are HD and future-proof. The data for those species is clearly easy to retain and associate with them by porting forward - this has happened almost every new generation and I think I saw someone mention it’s even there in LGPE. Tweaks and adjustments to thinks like move pools doesn’t seem difficult.

So if porting forward these species is relatively easy, and we’re not all in agreement that improvements for which that porting fell by the wayside are actually apparent... what is the point of not including things?

I’m kind of starting to lose track of understanding just why the decision was made and I’m starting to see eye-to-eye with some of the more critical analyses of the situation. I understand software development is hard (I do it every day), and I understand that game development specifically can be even harder, but... it doesn’t seem like including old species would have actually been difficult at all from what we know of past games and past development cycles.

You're touching exactly on what a lot of the controversy is about. People not really buying GameFreak's explanation for the cutting because their arguments do not fully seem to hold up.

 

[LordSerperior]

I could say the same about you lot praising new Pokemon or new features (or graphics, lol xD). That won't change anything either, but you're still doing that, are you not? This is the discussion forum and there's nothing to discuss if everybody will parrot each other and praise GameFreak like some religious sect.
Now I'm done. Hope there's some truly exciting news coming next month, because I've yet to see anything outstanding so far, sadly. And this is the first time I'm feeling this way.

Nobody is still discussing the starters because its been done and there's nothing new to talk about. Similarly the dex and graphic issues have also been thoroughly discussed and there's nothing new there to discuss anymore. By all means criticise the things shown in the most recent trailer which haven't already been discussed to death like Gigantamax or the new Pokemon or gym leaders. Criticism isn't the problem its how the same things are being repeated for the sake of argument.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Let's be honest, it's only 62% or so of USUM's diversity in pokémon that you could use. Pressing matter is more pokémon availability and not so much which ones happen to have a local dex entry.

That's the Wild Area is for.

At E3, it was stated that the Wild Area has no restrictions. You can encounter any pokemon that exists in the area at any time, and at any level. I'm certain the diversity will be fine.


To be quite honest, my only worry is with Ice pokemon, the most neglected type of the series.

 

[Cometstarlight]

That's the Wild Area is for.

At E3, it was stated that the Wild Area has no restrictions. You can encounter any pokemon that exists in the area at any time, and at any level. I'm certain the diversity will be fine.


To be quite honest, my only worry is with Ice pokemon, the most neglected type of the series.

I guess it just depends on how often it snows since the weather changes every day.

 

[greninjamaster]

Yeah, for a regional dex in a game where we had a National Dex, that would be great. But thats still over 300 pokemon cut.

Hopefully the majority of the Alola Dex is cut then.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

That's the Wild Area is for.

At E3, it was stated that the Wild Area has no restrictions. You can encounter any pokemon that exists in the area at any time, and at any level. I'm certain the diversity will be fine.


To be quite honest, my only worry is with Ice pokemon, the most neglected type of the series.

I don't just mean diversity as in what will I find on the route, but more what pokémon will I find in my battles online, and what pokémon will I be able to use. With USUM's roster being so large there was potential for a lot of variety in formats like Simple Symphony (only pokémon of a single type), Tiny Tourney (only pokémon of one metre or smaller) or Spooky Cup (only spooky pokémon). To me those kinds of formats change things up but I do want variety in there too. At least to me personally none of my favourites aside from Charjabug and Umbreon have been confirmed for Galar yet at all. No Meganium, no Sceptile, no Suicune, no Minun, no Latias, no Solgaleo.

Hopefully the majority of the Alola Dex is cut then.

Why's that? Alola pokémon are awesome and probably the most potent in terms of niche. Aside from Ultra Beasts every pokémon line introduced in Alola has at least one signature move or signature ability. And even despite complaints about the pokémon being too slow and so on the gen 7 pokémon have been the most popular per capita in online formats out of all generations. Currently 12 pokémon in the top 30 for VGC are gen 7 pokémon, more than any other generation.

Kanto: Gengar and Kangaskhan (2)
Johto: Crobat and Smeargle (2)
Hoenn: Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Salamence, Metagross (5)
Sinnoh: Bronzong (1)
Unova: Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, Landorus-Therian, Tornadus-Incarnate, Whimsicott, Kyurem-White (6)
Kalos: Xerneas, Yveltal (2)
Alola: Incineroar, Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Lunala, Necrozma-Dusk Mane, Stakataka, Necrozma-Dawn Wings, Celesteela, Solgaleo, Togedemaru, Nihilego (12)

Even absolute, that's double what Unova brings to the top 30 and Unova introduced way more pokémon. And there have been others like Kartana, Lurantis, and Tsareena that have also hopped in and out of this top 30.

Regular doubles is a bit different but still paints a similar picture:

Kanto: Gengar, Charizard, Zapdos, Snorlax, Kangaskhan, Clefairy (6)
Johto: Tyranitar (1)
Hoenn: Metagross, Salamence, Gardevoir, Milotic, Pelipper, Mawile (6)
Sinnoh: Cresselia, Gastrodon, Heatran (3)
Unova: Landorus-Therian, Amoonguss, Whimsicott (3)
Kalos: N/A (0)
Alola: Incineroar, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Kartana, Kommo-o, Tapu Bulu, Oranguru, Togedemaru, Mimikyu, Nihilego (11)

Or singles:

Kanto: Charizard, Gyarados, Gengar, Snorlax, Kangaskhan (5)
Johto: Porygon2, Tyranitar (2)
Hoenn: Salamence, Metagross, Blaziken, Breloom, Mawile (5)
Sinnoh: Hippowdon, Heatran, Garchomp, Lucario, Gliscor (5)
Unova: Landorus-Therian, Thundurus-Therian, Ferrothorn, Volcarona (4)
Kalos: Greninja, Aegislash (2)
Alola: Mimikyu, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Celesteela, Naganadel, Kartana (7)

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

I guess it just depends on how often it snows since the weather changes every day.

The E3 demo showed that the Wild Area is divided up into several smaller locations. For example, the giant lake area is split into multiple districts, including South Lake Miloch, Rolling Fields, East Lake Axewell, and Watchtower Ruins. Each district has its own set of pokemon and can have a completely different weather from the rest of the overall location.

I don't just mean diversity as in what will I find on the route, but more what pokémon will I find in my battles online, and what pokémon will I be able to use. With USUM's roster being so large there was potential for a lot of variety in formats like Simple Symphony (only pokémon of a single type), Tiny Tourney (only pokémon of one metre or smaller) or Spooky Cup (only spooky pokémon). To me those kinds of formats change things up but I do want variety in there too. At least to me personally none of my favourites aside from Charjabug and Umbreon have been confirmed for Galar yet at all. No Meganium, no Sceptile, no Suicune, no Minun, no Latias, no Solgaleo.

Ah, well yes, in that case I do see what you mean.

Ultimately, we will be using much less than the 500+ pokemon available in the regional dex, as most trainers use fully evolved pokemon. I'd say at best, there will be 300+ pokemon seen throughout online battles. To be honest, though, the current meta sees even less, due to the amount of pokemon deemed competitively viable. I usually see the same 40-50 pokemon in competitive battling, so I doubt the size of the regional dex will make things much different.

 

[Leonhart]

I’m kind of starting to lose track of understanding just why the decision was made and I’m starting to see eye-to-eye with some of the more critical analyses of the situation. I understand software development is hard (I do it every day), and I understand that game development specifically can be even harder, but... it doesn’t seem like including old species would have actually been difficult at all from what we know of past games and past development cycles.

Frankly, the excuses that have been made in defense of Game Freak irk me more than Game Freak's decision to exclude certain Pokemon, because it feels like the part of the fandom that continues to support Game Freak's decisions are just enabling them further. As for the actual graphics, aside from a few contentious aspects like the shoddy up-close shots of the trees in certain areas and the recycled motions that were used for Hop, I'm not too bothered since I've never played any of the core games with the graphics foremost on my mind.

 

[Kangaflora]

I don't just mean diversity as in what will I find on the route, but more what pokémon will I find in my battles online, and what pokémon will I be able to use. With USUM's roster being so large there was potential for a lot of variety in formats like Simple Symphony (only pokémon of a single type), Tiny Tourney (only pokémon of one metre or smaller) or Spooky Cup (only spooky pokémon). To me those kinds of formats change things up but I do want variety in there too. At least to me personally none of my favourites aside from Charjabug and Umbreon have been confirmed for Galar yet at all. No Meganium, no Sceptile, no Suicune, no Minun, no Latias, no Solgaleo.

Why's that? Alola pokémon are awesome and probably the most potent in terms of niche. Aside from Ultra Beasts every pokémon line introduced in Alola has at least one signature move or signature ability. And even despite complaints about the pokémon being too slow and so on the gen 7 pokémon have been the most popular per capita in online formats out of all generations. Currently 12 pokémon in the top 30 for VGC are gen 7 pokémon, more than any other generation.

Kanto: Gengar and Kangaskhan (2)
Johto: Crobat and Smeargle (2)
Hoenn: Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Salamence, Metagross (5)
Sinnoh: Bronzong (1)
Unova: Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, Landorus-Therian, Tornadus-Incarnate, Whimsicott, Kyurem-White (6)
Kalos: Xerneas, Yveltal (2)
Alola: Incineroar, Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Lunala, Necrozma-Dusk Mane, Stakataka, Necrozma-Dawn Wings, Celesteela, Solgaleo, Togedemaru, Nihilego (12)

Even absolute, that's double what Unova brings to the top 30 and Unova introduced way more pokémon. And there have been others like Kartana, Lurantis, and Tsareena that have also hopped in and out of this top 30.

Regular doubles is a bit different but still paints a similar picture:

Kanto: Gengar, Charizard, Zapdos, Snorlax, Kangaskhan, Clefairy (6)
Johto: Tyranitar (1)
Hoenn: Metagross, Salamence, Gardevoir, Milotic, Pelipper, Mawile (6)
Sinnoh: Cresselia, Gastrodon, Heatran (3)
Unova: Landorus-Therian, Amoonguss, Whimsicott (3)
Kalos: N/A (0)
Alola: Incineroar, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Kartana, Kommo-o, Tapu Bulu, Oranguru, Togedemaru, Mimikyu, Nihilego (11)

Or singles:

Kanto: Charizard, Gyarados, Gengar, Snorlax, Kangaskhan (5)
Johto: Porygon2, Tyranitar (2)
Hoenn: Salamence, Metagross, Blaziken, Breloom, Mawile (5)
Sinnoh: Hippowdon, Heatran, Garchomp, Lucario, Gliscor (5)
Unova: Landorus-Therian, Thundurus-Therian, Ferrothorn, Volcarona (4)
Kalos: Greninja, Aegislash (2)
Alola: Mimikyu, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Celesteela, Naganadel, Kartana (7)

I see Kangaskhan is popular amongst Pokémon Trainers as of late. If Galar is based on the UK, then Kangaskahn may be cut due to it only being available in Australia in the Pokémon GO Series.