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Does this idea seem at all plausible to you?


  • Total voters
    189

Ning

Well-Known Member
Is it confirmed that we won’t be able to transfer pokemon over until Home comes out or is that just assumed as Bank connects to Home and you can transfer Pokémon from Home to SwSh.

I don’t see anything that says it will or won’t have access to Bank beforehand.

Wouldn’t surprise me though if you have to wait till Home since otherwise you could transfer over the entire non-gen 8 Pokédex as well as fully ready battle teams.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
The autosave feature sounds like an annoying feature you have to work around for specific tasks in mind like seeing a specific extremely rare Pokemon or grinding your Pokemon levels.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
A healthy fanbase is one in which new people are constantly coming in, because in all fanbases, people are constantly leaving. New blood keeps the whole thing alive. Pokémon GO is the biggest source of new blood in Pokémon for a long time, possibly the second biggest in the franchise's history after the initial craze. From the perspective of The Pokémon Company, it would thus make sense to see if they can get this wave of newcomers into the central part of the franchise.

They don't need the mobile market for this though. The fanbase naturally sees players coming and going as younger players buy the games for the first time and older players grow up and lose interest. Furthermore, the Switch has a built in new audience for Pokemon to appeal to with it being a hybrid console/handheld, longtime console gamers can now play a main series Pokemon game for the first time so that market is a prime source for new blood. There's no desperate need for the games to pander to a market that isn't really all that interested in them to begin with, especially in an environment where gamers want pretty much the exact opposite of what mobile gamers want. If Game Freak were smart and actually understood what console gamers wanted, they'd know that this was a bad idea to begin with.

I don't know how successful they were at it--people I've met who got into Pokémon GO and picked up Let's Go have been split 50-50 between entering the main series and it being too complicated for them.

Considering that LGPE sold about the same as any other Pokemon game, probably not very successful.

That being said, bear in mind the rave reviews Let's Go got. Why did these game reviewers love Let's Go so much? Because they are not Pokémon fans. They don't have in-depth knowledge of how Pokémon games work, how they're structured, or what you're supposed to do when you begin. What they do know is basic video game logic and patterns derived from playing other games, and Let's Go turned out to be much more approachable to them. This is the audience that Let's Go managed to pick up. And a lot of these reviewers talk about interest in trying out the main series.

What reviewers are you reading? Usually reviewers review games that they actually enjoy. As for why, well they always rate Pokemon games highly regardless of quality. They're probably either just really obsessed with Pokemon or getting paid off by Game Freak to give it a good score.

Let's Go is a gateway game, a transitional one, though it looks to me like it picked up a different audience than the one originally intended.

Not really "picked up" so much as maintained, as it just seemed to consist of existing fans of the main games that tolerated the Go mechanics enough to give it a try.

Yep, I think that's the best way to go about it. I just wanted to point out that decisions that may appear baffling to non-Japanese people make more sense in the context of Japanese video game culture, one of them being a preference of physical copies over DLC (though to be fair, there are many aspects of Japanese video game culture that baffle me). Game Freak, despite them caring very much about international appeal, seems to still be very much rooted in how Japanese gamers function.

Which is a mistake, operating based on what one market thinks and giving the rest the middle finger is just not smart business. If you're not looking at the bigger picture you're leaving money on the table.

In this case, though, I wonder if it's not that someone is unfamiliar with Breath of the Wild but of the initials "BOTW." I mean, I've been in fandoms where people would throw out acronyms like "STTNG" and I'd be confused for a little bit--until I look further into it and find that it refers to Star Trek: The Next Generation, one of the most famous science fiction TV shows ever but very rarely abbreviated down to its initials outside of specific fan circles. (Acronym Finder rates "Breath of the Wild" as 5 stars in search importance though, which is higher than I had expected.)

Yeah, I guess this makes sense.

It would be neat to see how a Pokémon game like you envisioned would play out, though I would still say that open world games could cause problems if Game Freak chooses to go for a more story-heavy direction. One example that comes to mind is Lillie and everything related to her. She has moments of character growth and development that are tied to particular locations, such as encountering an Ultra Wormhole near Heahea City, working up the courage to go back to Aether Foundation, and bonding with the player character on Exeggutor Island. (And, in the Ultra games, becoming a Pokémon trainer and partnering with the player character when they reach Rainbow Rocket HQ.) It wouldn't work quite as well if done out of order.

Something like the early games, or X and Y, where you're given the plot, then told to go at it, could work that way, but it looks like for Sword and Shield, there are several side characters who look like they have their own stories to tell, and some of whom may accompany you at certain points (such as that rumored challenge where you have to catch a lot of Pokémon). This could feasibly be done with a story like with Black and White, where the villains' story bits with you were largely unrelated to what Pokémon they were using or where they were located, though that moment when Alder has you defeat the little kids with Pokémon much, much lower-leveled than yours to demonstrate a point about taking battling too seriously might be trouble if someone gets there too early.

Well, there's a couple of ways they could go about doing that. One, they could have the events trigger in different places based on your intended gym order. Two, they could make some of the character development part of optional events. Three, they could just not bother with those kinds of plots at all. One thing you have to keep in mind with Pokemon plots is that the storyline surrounding the evil teams tends to be disconnected from the core premise. You're a trainer out on an adventure to catch Pokemon, battle them, and compete in the Pokemon League. The evil teams' apocalyptic plots involving the legendary Pokemon tend to be unrelated to all of that (the only exceptions being BW, and from the looks of it, SwSh), so that aspect of the formula is very expendable. So they could easily overhaul the plot to accommodate open world game design without compromising the series' identity.

I still wonder how leveling would work though or gathering of HMs and HM-equivalents (like Poké Ride or those Eevee/Pikachu powers). There's already a sort of Metroidvania element to that (though downplayed in regions from Unova and onward) in that getting new overworld skills lets you open up more paths, where higher-leveled Pokémon reside and the next parts of the story happen. Certainly, there's a bit of trouble with Let's Go in which avid Pokédex collectors could face Sabrina as soon as they reach Saffron City--and promptly get trashed by her Level 50 Alakazam, who is much higher-leveled than Erika's or Koga's signature Pokémon (and is only slightly lower than Blaine's).

Hold up a minute, who said anything about getting to higher leveled Pokemon? It'd be better for the wild Pokemon and trainers to scale based on how many badges you had. Fighting a Lv. 50 Alakazam as your first gym battle is something they should definitely avoid, especially when they're focused on making the game for little kids and casuals. Best to make that Lv. 50 Alakazam a Lv. 15 Kadabra if you fight it as your first gym (which would be a much more reasonable challenge at that point in the game).

This doesnt make sense. These people had to be willing to buy a switch and Pokemon game or else they couldn't have complained about how hard it was.

What I'm saying is that they're a very small minority of Go fans. Most of them won't even bother going further than Go because mobile is a multimedia market that generally doesn't want to spend money, so the vast majority of them wouldn't bother. And the ones that do, well, we're seeing what happens then.

Game Freak also doesnt care how long they play the game. Only whether or not they will buy the next one.

Do you really expect them to bother with the next one if they're complaining about these things? Obviously the main series isn't for them if they can't even stomach that much.

I didn't say it was bad, I'm just saying that's why it's happening. That's also why a lot of people believe that the games really come off feeling lacking or unfinished in the last 6 years.

There's a difference between cutting grinding and cutting extra content though. Grinding is just repetitively training to raise your level enough to continue the game, and it usually takes place against opponents you've already fought before. It artificially pads out your play time. Extra content, meanwhile, is actually new optional content that you didn't already engage in. So cutting that is cutting actual substance from the game. That's what the complaints are about, I don't think anyone would shed a tear for them eliminating grinding from the game. Cutting extra content along with the grinding is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 

Ning

Well-Known Member
Speaking of adding a new audience with it going to the Switch instead of a handheld, I’m wondering how people who are long time players of Pokémon will react to the, IMO, inevitable increase of online content in SwSh. Specifically, content that encourages you to play online.

I’m expecting a very large culture shock.

Was also thinking about Max raids, that’s going to create a whole new meta of Pokémon. Much, much more specialized.
 
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Tsukuyomi56

Emblian Royalty
Speaking of adding a new audience with it going to the Switch instead of a handheld, I’m wondering how people who are long time players of Pokémon will react to the, IMO, inevitable increase of online content in SwSh. Specifically, content that encourages you to play online.

I’m expecting a very large culture shock.

Was also thinking about Max raids, that’s going to create a whole new meta of Pokémon. Much, much more specialized.

Max Raids can still be done with AI partners though a sometimes brain-dead AI can make it preferable to turn to human partners. Sadly the Pokémon series is pretty lacking in Pokémon that can play the "healer" role thanks to Heal Pulse being the only healing move that can target other Pokémon.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Speaking of adding a new audience with it going to the Switch instead of a handheld, I’m wondering how people who are long time players of Pokémon will react to the, IMO, inevitable increase of online content in SwSh. Specifically, content that encourages you to play online.

I’m expecting a very large culture shock.

Was also thinking about Max raids, that’s going to create a whole new meta of Pokémon. Much, much more specialized.
No doubt as they seem to want to force people to play more competitively. Not something I'm a fan of as I like to battle more for fun.
 

JohnLynch

Well-Known Member
What I'm saying is that they're a very small minority of Go fans.
While your correct in that they are a minority of Go fans, do you have any numbers on how many Lets Go players are Go players? And your claim they won’t buy any future games is quite dubious. People rarely complete video games. Doesn’t stop them from buying them.
 
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WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
Reducing grinding is a good thing though. Otherwise you get a GSC/HGSS situation.

Grinding is RPG enemy #1!

Unless, of course, you're NIS or a fan of NIS, as they make RPGs catered to the weirdos who actually like to grind.

My guess is the online dynamix raids are going to be super popular. Especially amongst friends. Some people get very stressed out by anything PvP (for a variety of reasons) but a cooperative format is for a different and very large audience.

I’m curious how hard the hardest ones will be. Will you actually need to have well trained Pokémon with correct teams?

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised with how popular Salmon Run was, and still is, in Splatoon 2, a mode where four players cooperate to fight large amounts of weak (and not-so-weak) enemies. There are actually a good number of Splatoon 2 players who play mainly Salmon Run.

I wouldn't be surprised if you have to transfer them from Go/Let's Go to Home and then to Sword/Shield and there is no other way to get them.

Neither would I. But I'd also expect them to suddenly just make Meltan and/or Melmetal available via easier means later on--not necessarily in this generation, but eventually, just as they made getting Spiritomb easier and how Mythical Pokémon are just outright given away at certain times online or via chain stores.

It probably won't be quite as extreme as Zorua showing up as an early-game wild Pokémon, of course. Or Deoxys becoming a postgame catchable in-game Pokémon.

They don't need the mobile market for this though. The fanbase naturally sees players coming and going as younger players buy the games for the first time and older players grow up and lose interest. Furthermore, the Switch has a built in new audience for Pokemon to appeal to with it being a hybrid console/handheld, longtime console gamers can now play a main series Pokemon game for the first time so that market is a prime source for new blood. There's no desperate need for the games to pander to a market that isn't really all that interested in them to begin with, especially in an environment where gamers want pretty much the exact opposite of what mobile gamers want. If Game Freak were smart and actually understood what console gamers wanted, they'd know that this was a bad idea to begin with.

They don't, but they probably want more money. That's really all there is to it.


What reviewers are you reading? Usually reviewers review games that they actually enjoy. As for why, well they always rate Pokemon games highly regardless of quality. They're probably either just really obsessed with Pokemon or getting paid off by Game Freak to give it a good score.

Professional reviewers. From what I can gathe,r it's the same as the journalists who go to events like E3, PAX, Toyko Game Show, and so forth in that, due to the nature of their job, they have to play many, many games continuously throughout the year and can't really spend much time with any one game unless they get a real personal attachment to it (upon which they, well, play it during their non-working hours). There were many complaints from fans of Crash Team Racing: Nitro-Fueled, for example, in that the reviewers, if they had videos of it, were playing poorly; this is most certainly because that game has a boost mechanic that requires weeks, if not months, to get right, but the reviewers have likely only played for a day or two at most, and, unsurprisingly, they had little to no grasp of that boosting mechanic.

That's what I think is happening with reviews of Let's Go. If they're played by people who are into RPGs, they may not have played any Pokémon games for more than a day or two, or they may not have played them at all. Let's Go provides a simplified experience, with stripped down mechanics. It is, to use something probably cliché by now, Baby's First Pokémon Game, which meshes well with a number of these reviewers working for magazines, websites, and general entertainment publications (the last of which may by the ONLY person on staff who plays video games). I've also seen a bunch of reviews from people who hadn't played since Generation I, and it seems to have appealed to them quite well, with praising of the "traditional mechanics" and "going back to its roots."

The divide between professional reviewers and user reviewers is pretty stark on Metacritic; the professional score is 79 out of 100, while the user score is a harsher 6.1 out of 10. The score breakdown is also different between them, with a roughly 3:1 ratio of positive-to-mixed with no negative reviews at all (5 out of 10 is the lowest it gets) while user reviews are about 1:1 between positive and outright negative.

Which is a mistake, operating based on what one market thinks and giving the rest the middle finger is just not smart business. If you're not looking at the bigger picture you're leaving money on the table.

It's not so much as "giving the rest the middle finger" as much as I don't think Game Freak is aware that gaming culture is different outside of Japan compared to what's within Japan. That is, it might be that their apprehension of releasing expansive DLC is not because Japanese players don't care, but they might think nobody cares. This is a mistake even big megacorporations make when selling things to foreign markets: They assume everywhere else functions just like them.

A good example is pizza in China. Dairy is rarely used in Chinese cuisine, and a lot of people in China, subsequently, never built up lactose tolerance. The result is that cheese is indigestible for many Chinese, at least in earlier decades. In addition, tomatoes are rarely used too, which are seen as weird and offputting there. Bread is the most familiar of the core parts of a pizza, but that is considered a novelty food. As a result, pizza would have a hard time succeeding in China. Pizza Hut pulled it off by sending people there to do culinary research for a year, with Pizza Hut's bigwigs accepting their findings no matter how weird it is. Pizza Hut's Chinese menu is drastically different from what you might expect pizza to be like, with toppings like corn and/or roast duck, and with the options to replace the cheese with mayonnaise or (regular) tofu and the sauce with familiar Chinese sauces like hoisin sauce or char siu glaze. (They also apparently quite like Thousand Island dressing for the sauce.) By adapting pizza to Chinese tastes, Pizza Hut has since become a part of Chinese culture, and domestic chains soon popped up. On the flip side, Domino's fell for that fallacy of "What the locals like must be what the world likes" and sold their pizzas completely unchanged. Domino's never found an audience in China--criticism of Dominos quality aside, very few were willing to even try it, and it has had minimal presence in China since.

(Or, for a simpler pizza-based example, Americans thoroughly reject frutti di mare pizza despite it being one of the staples of its home country of Italy.)


Well, there's a couple of ways they could go about doing that. One, they could have the events trigger in different places based on your intended gym order. Two, they could make some of the character development part of optional events. Three, they could just not bother with those kinds of plots at all. One thing you have to keep in mind with Pokemon plots is that the storyline surrounding the evil teams tends to be disconnected from the core premise. You're a trainer out on an adventure to catch Pokemon, battle them, and compete in the Pokemon League. The evil teams' apocalyptic plots involving the legendary Pokemon tend to be unrelated to all of that (the only exceptions being BW, and from the looks of it, SwSh), so that aspect of the formula is very expendable. So they could easily overhaul the plot to accommodate open world game design without compromising the series' identity.

I suppose you're right--in a theoretical example of a full free-roaming Pokémon game, they could build a story with that in mind. I don't think Sword and Shield will go full open-world though. The success of Breath of the Wild has influenced some major Switch games, most notably Super Mario Odyssey, but as it stands, the narrow shape of the Galar region and the large number of side characters suggests to me it'll be limited, perhaps until the postgame. (This may, again, tie into Game Freak's Japanocentrism--Japanese gamers tend to prefer linear games where the player character is pushed along by the plot. For instance, none of the Mass Effect games have succeeded in Japan; what western gamers see as moral choices that affect the story, Japanese players see them as "They give me too many decisions, and I don't know which one is the right one for the story!")

For the record, Sabrina, in Let's Go, seems to be intended to be fought as the 6th Gym Leader. That is, the game strongly suggests you fight Erika, then Koga, and then Sabrina, based on the levels of their signature Pokémon and the increasingly high requirements needed to access their Gyms. It's a much more pronounced difference than the three of them in the original Game Boy games, where their levels were close together, as were those of all of the trainers in central and southern Kanto.
 

Trainer Yusuf

VolcaniNO
Unless, of course, you're NIS or a fan of NIS, as they make RPGs catered to the weirdos who actually like to grind.

Yeah, I happen to be one of those weirdos, because I play RPGs to, y'know, play a role.

But for soft resetting issues autosaving is very bad, as shoz said. For general grinding autosaving is very, very good, but for breeding and catching is very counter-intuitive. Since I generally breed the normal way and don't use Legendaries it won't effect me, but it will effect A LOT of competitive players negatively.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator

Team Volt Grunt

Pokémon Collector
Is it confirmed that we won’t be able to transfer pokemon over until Home comes out or is that just assumed as Bank connects to Home and you can transfer Pokémon from Home to SwSh.

I don’t see anything that says it will or won’t have access to Bank beforehand.

Wouldn’t surprise me though if you have to wait till Home since otherwise you could transfer over the entire non-gen 8 Pokédex as well as fully ready battle teams.
At this point, there is no reason to suspect "Pokemon Bank" will ever be coming to the Switch. "Pokemon Home" is likely the Switch iteration of Bank. When Home is released, it will be able to connect to our Bank accounts to transfer pokemon forward, but that won't be until some time next year.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
Yeah, I happen to be one of those weirdos, because I play RPGs to, y'know, play a role.

But for soft resetting issues autosaving is very bad, as shoz said. For general grinding autosaving is very, very good, but for breeding and catching is very counter-intuitive. Since I generally breed the normal way and don't use Legendaries it won't effect me, but it will effect A LOT of competitive players negatively.
I've always felt like soft-resetting is going against how the game is meant to be, so I welcome the auto-save very much to keep everyone from doing that. But at the same time, people love to find and take advantage of loopholes and they usually aren't happy when said loopholes are taken care of, so I understand on those grounds that there will definitely be frustration among people.
 

WhiteBlair

ベストチャンピオン。
I've always felt like soft-resetting is going against how the game is meant to be, so I welcome the auto-save very much to keep everyone from doing that. But at the same time, people love to find and take advantage of loopholes and they usually aren't happy when said loopholes are taken care of, so I understand on those grounds that there will definitely be frustration among people.
But, soft-resetting is not used only for Pokémon natures or avenging a battle against rivals. The loopholes can be quite disturbing for players such as:
  • Feeding wrong curry, thus wrong EV distribution (if any/assumption).
  • Money issues: Unlike other series, you can't farm money by catching/knocking out Pokémon.
  • Accidental release of your own Pokémon.
  • Accidental use of items that are hard to obtain (Bottle Caps) and so forth.
Whereas auto-save feature for Smash or Zelda is pretty much understandable, since you only progress one step each or the game allows you to farm/obtain the stuff you use in regular basis. Pokémon doesn't offer you that privilege, unfortunately.
 

Team Volt Grunt

Pokémon Collector
I've always felt like soft-resetting is going against how the game is meant to be, so I welcome the auto-save very much to keep everyone from doing that. But at the same time, people love to find and take advantage of loopholes and they usually aren't happy when said loopholes are taken care of, so I understand on those grounds that there will definitely be frustration among people.
You feel a feature the developers programmed into the game goes against the game? Soft resetting has been a part of the games because Game Freak made it so; it wasn't a default function of the GB, GBA, DS, or 3DS hardware and it's not even a glitch or an exploit. By all means, if you prefer to let things happen as they happen and live with it, that's fine. But why would you wish a feature that is so important to other people to be removed from the games? That just sounds spiteful.
 

ghostedZorua

Hex Maniac
You know what I'm looking forward to? Playing Sword and Shield on the new version of the Switch, specifically the special edition Zacian and Zamazenta version! I was originally going to get the original Switch, but then I learned about the new Switch Lite, which is not only a hundred dollars cheaper, but also focuses more on the portability of the Switch. Now I won't be scared to take it on the go! (I have no idea if it will have the same data capacity as the original, however, but I still intend on buying it.)

Now for some non-advertisement-esque opinions:

It took me a while to catch up again, and I ended up just skipping through a bunch of pages, but has anyone discussed the new Pokemon introduced with the latest trailer? Polteageist looks so cute and I can't wait to catch one for my team! Cramorant, however, I'm just okay with. There's not that many sea-bird Pokemon.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
You feel a feature the developers programmed into the game goes against the game? Soft resetting has been a part of the games because Game Freak made it so; it wasn't a default function of the GB, GBA, DS, or 3DS hardware and it's not even a glitch or an exploit. By all means, if you prefer to let things happen as they happen and live with it, that's fine. But why would you wish a feature that is so important to other people to be removed from the games? That just sounds spiteful.
Spiteful probably is a good word for it, I don’t got time for it so it’s probably just more funny to me that others just won’t be able to do it even with the time. I did say I understand why others are angry about it, but it does make me laugh more than it making me want to be upset with everyone else. Add it in with the lack of a national dex and the forever complaining is pretty funny to watch.
 
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