Pokemon Sword & Shield GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread [Spoilers]

[Team Volt Grunt]

I think what he’s implying here is the national dex being the make or break decision and some people’s overreaction to it is getting a bit out of hand and starting to overshadow the game itself. It’s one thing to be disappointed by this, it’s another to have a full existential crisis over it.

Again, gen 3, 202/386 initially available in ruby/sapphire, people were understandably upset but those missing mons became available in firered and leaf green. I trust a solution will appear at some point. It may not be the most ideal solution (transferring Pokemon before bank was a chore) and may not happen as quick as people would like (we went roughly a year without all Pokemon being available in gen 3), but I trust it’ll happen. We just need to take a chill pill, be reasonable in our complaints (I.e. not spam twitter/reddit 1000 times a day every day), and wait and see what unfolds with Pokemon home, as we still don’t know everything about that either.

I was ready to just drop the whole national dex issue until I saw this comparison still being made.

You can't compare Sword & Shield to Ruby & Sapphire. Just like EVERY other game we have gotten since Gold and Silver and up to now, Ruby & Sapphire did not have every possible pokemon located in the wild to catch, but they did have every possible pokemon coded in. The games recognized pokemon outside of the Hoenn regional dex when you linked up with Emerald, FireRed, LeafGreen, Colosseum, or Gale of Darkness because they were still coded in. Sword & Shield don't have non-regional dex pokemon coded in. If we get another pair of games next year that offer a different set of pokemon than the Galar dex, Sword & Shield won't recognize them. The games won't be compatible for trading/battling with Sword & Shield, and likely won't be compatible for any other online feature (like raid battles, if that feature were to be in the next game). XY and ORAS were able to trade, battle and interact on the PSS because all the pokemon were coded in (with some exceptions for XY) instead of just having the regional dex. This is what we are losing going forward if Game Freak continues with this plan. Yearly games that sacrifice content for "higher quality" graphics and have no compatibility with previous titles, even in the same generation.

Could Game Freak later release an update that adds the rest of the pokemon? Yes, of course. Will they? Not likely. We've seen them put out bug fixes before. You kind of have to do that as a developer unless you want all of your games returned to the store and your sales to tank. But why would they spend extra time on Sword & Shield after its release when the games work the way they planned and there's another game right around the corner? There are only two incentives that would actually get them to do that: extra revenue from treating the rest of the pokemon like a paid DLC instead of an update, or low sales because enough people decide not to buy the game for this specific issue. We all know the second option isn't happening.

TLDR: S&S's situation is new and not comparable to previous titles. There is no foreseeable solution to the issue, other than waiting and seeing what happens. People are upset about this. It will eventually blow over, but until then, don't try to de-legitimize people's feelings and concerns. We all have to deal with it in our own way and get over it in our own time.

 

[Mag Prime]

The sheer scale of the backlash is giving me some hope at least. 1.1M people have watched their treehouse video and it's now at over 75% dislikes.

Granted, the games usually sell in the order of 15M games, so the views on that video are less than 10% of the fans, and also from those who watched the video only a small fraction have actually rated it (and they are more likely to be the ones who dislike it), and also from those who did dislike it many are still gonna buy the games.

Even with all that said, the numbers are still large enough to induce some noticeable drop in the sales and if the rumors are to be believed the Japanese fans are reacting in a similar way so I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that something positive can be achieved here.

EDIT: Also note that we don't necessarily need the games to downright flop. It all depends on what their profit margin is. If they sell 12M copies instead of 15M copies but those 3M they don't sell would make them more profit than their entire budget, then that could still be enough motivation to increase their budget to make the next games better.

 

[Beloberto]

There was this guy on reddit who polled 52000 people on what their favorite pokemon is. Each person was only allowed one vote, and only 4 pokemon ended up getting 0 votes. In fact, those 4 pokemon had evolutionary relatives that got some votes which supports the view that every pokemon is someone's favorite.

Now, the thing is, people don't just have one favorite. In reality, everyone has many pokemon they like or don't like so even if they only cut out like 20% of the pokemon, the majority of people are likely to have a favorite in that subset.

There is something deserving pointing out here. Every pokémon is someone's favorite. Sure. But as long as all your favorites are in the game, how will your experience be changed by the fact Stranger #54's favorite is not in?

"Every pokémon is someone's favorite" is a justifiable reasoning to explain why the fandom in general is worried and why GF should treat 'em all equally (after 20 years making "everyone is in" games, you can't just change it like that and call a day), but when it comes to personal experience it doesn't really have any meaning. As long as your favorites are in, that should be enough for you unless you are some sort of super altruistic person who can't enjoy a game knowing someone somewhere is sad because their favorite was left out.
And that's where PrinceOfFacade reasoning goes in: before we know at least how big the reginal dex is supposed to be, we don't even know if getting all your favorites is likely or will require some serious amount of luck.

 

[Mag Prime]

There is something deserving pointing out here. Every pokémon is someone's favorite. Sure. But as long as all your favorites are in the game, how will your experience be changed by the fact Stranger #54's favorite is not in?

"Every pokémon is someone's favorite" is a justifiable reasoning to explain why the fandom in general is worried and why GF should treat 'em all equally (after 20 years making "everyone is in" games, you can't just change it like that and call a day), but when it comes to personal experience it doesn't really have any meaning. As long as your favorites are in, that should be enough for you unless you are some sort of super altruistic person who can't enjoy a game knowing someone somewhere is sad because their favorite was left out.
And that's where PrinceOfFacade reasoning goes in: before we know at least how big the reginal dex is supposed to be, we don't even know if getting all your favorites is likely or will require some serious amount of luck.

But again, people don't just have a favorite. It's all statistics. The probability of having all your favorites appear in SwSh is approximately

100% * ([Number of pokemon in Galar Dex]/900)^[Number of favorites]

If there are 600 pokemon in SwSh (There are probably less) and the average person has 4 favorite pokemon (They probably have way more), then the probability of having all of them make it is 19.75%.

If there are 450 pokemon in SwSh and the average person has 6 favorite pokemon, then the probability for each person to have them all is 1.56%.

As you can see, this number goes down pretty fast. So the overwhelming majority of people are gonna have a favorite cut no matter what.

 

[Rainbowdashtheawesome]

In fact, we'll be on a whole new hardware set beyond Switch by Gen 9 alone.

Not since gen 3 has a single gen covered the whole lifetime of a system. The DS had gen 4 and 5 (plus the gen 2 remakes), the 3DS had gen 6 and 7 (plus the gen 3 remakes), so why would you expect the Switch to only have gen 8? Based on their usual pattern the Switch will likely have gen 8, the gen 4 remakes, and gen 9 before becoming obsolete.

 

[neo_senku]

There is something deserving pointing out here. Every pokémon is someone's favorite. Sure. But as long as all your favorites are in the game, how will your experience be changed by the fact Stranger #54's favorite is not in?

"Every pokémon is someone's favorite" is a justifiable reasoning to explain why the fandom in general is worried and why GF should treat 'em all equally (after 20 years making "everyone is in" games, you can't just change it like that and call a day), but when it comes to personal experience it doesn't really have any meaning. As long as your favorites are in, that should be enough for you unless you are some sort of super altruistic person who can't enjoy a game knowing someone somewhere is sad because their favorite was left out.
And that's where PrinceOfFacade reasoning goes in: before we know at least how big the reginal dex is supposed to be, we don't even know if getting all your favorites is likely or will require some serious amount of luck.

You dont have to be super altruistic to care that someone elses favorites get in. There exists a space inbetween selfish scrooge and super altruistic as you put it. Outside of that point, gf said this is the policy going foward. Every new game will have a curated selection of pokemon. So even If somehow all of a persons favorite pokemon made it in these games, it is unlikely to be the same for the next game.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

There was this guy on reddit who polled 52000 people on what their favorite pokemon is. Each person was only allowed one vote, and only 4 pokemon ended up getting 0 votes. In fact, those 4 pokemon had evolutionary relatives that got some votes which supports the view that every pokemon is someone's favorite.

Now, the thing is, people don't just have one favorite. In reality, everyone has many pokemon they like or don't like so even if they only cut out like 20% of the pokemon, the majority of people are likely to have a favorite in that subset.

And even if we don't know the final roster it doesn't mean we cannot make educated guesses. i.e. I guess Unown will be cut because those are 26 models+animations for a single pokemon and they haven't been using Unown in any way for a while so I can see how it would be too much work for too little gain for GF to include.

I'm aware virtually everyone will be at a loss with this game.

I mean, for me, since I often have to go without my #1 favorite pokemon, Suicune, I'm prepared to not have him an umpteenth time. I'm also prepared not to have Spiritomb, who is very seldom in any regional dex. Still, I know there are many other pokemon I love throughout the series, and I've been lucky enough to already spot a few of them in trailers and directs.

I honestly don't think it's too wise to make an educated guess on this one. At best, we can assume Mythical pokemon won't make it in, but there are always surprises. But of course, we each get to decide for ourselves. I'm just throwing out suggestions.

About 75-85~ new Pokemon are created once every three years starting with Gen 6. Even if GF adds 100 new Pokemon every single generation, which they won't do, it would take another 20-30 YEARS to reach up to 2000. By that time? We'll have gone through so many innovations of hardware and technology, you better bet your buns I expect compatibility with every single 'Mon in 2040. In fact, we'll be on a whole new hardware set beyond Switch by Gen 9 alone.

Actually, Nintendo plans to give the Switch a lifespan of 10 years, so we can expect Gens 9 and 10 to also be on the Switch.​

 

[Xuxuba]

You can't compare Sword & Shield to Ruby & Sapphire. Just like EVERY other game we have gotten since Gold and Silver and up to now, Ruby & Sapphire did not have every possible pokemon located in the wild to catch, but they did have every possible pokemon coded in.

Agreed. Ruby and Sapphire's problem was entirely different. It's problem was the lack of backwards compatility.

Also, let's not forget that you weren't able to transfer pokémon from previous generations in Ruby and Sapphire due to the hardware constraints they had at the time and not because they prioritized something else over allowing the players to bring back their pokémon into those games.

Nonetheless, they still got a lot of backlash back in Gen 3, which i found unreasonable, because they had no fault in this issue. This time around though, i do understand where the criticism is coming from.

 

[Leonhart]

One thing Gamexplain pointed out in a recent video is that the true issue to all of this is that Game Freak's communication is freakin' awful.

I've always disliked the fact that they don't usually issue quick statements themselves and usually just answer questions in interviews. And even when they try to address the concerns of the fandom, we have people like Mr. Masuda who tends to beat around the bush by answering questions in a very roundabout way and hardly addressing the core issues.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Agreed. Ruby and Sapphire's problem was entirely different. It's problem was the lack of backwards compatility.

Also, let's not forget that you weren't able to transfer pokémon from previous generations in Ruby and Sapphire due to the hardware constraints they had at the time and not because they prioritized something else over allowing the players to bring back their pokémon into those games.

Nonetheless, they still got a lot of backlash back in Gen 3, which i found unreasonable, because they had no fault in this issue. This time around though, i do understand where the criticism is coming from.

The backwards compatibility in Gen II was very flawed and GF was very weary of doing two way transferring again. You have to remember that there were a lot of bugs and glitches that often made the games unplayable.

 

[amoebo]

I'm really excited for when analogous pokemon to those in the Galar Dex are removed (e.g Skarmory is being removed because Corviknight does everything that Skarmory does, except slight differences in stat distribution and movepool) meaning that around ~60 pokemon are removed in total.

 

[Beloberto]

But again, people don't just have a favorite. It's all statistics. The probability of having all your favorites appear in SwSh is approximately

100% * ([Number of pokemon in Galar Dex]/900)^[Number of favorites]

If there are 600 pokemon in SwSh (There are probably less) and the average person has 4 favorite pokemon (They probably have way more), then the probability of having all of them make it is 19.75%.

If there are 450 pokemon in SwSh and the average person has 6 favorite pokemon, then the probability for each person to have them all is 1.56%.

As you can see, this number goes down pretty fast. So the overwhelming majority of people are gonna have a favorite cut no matter what.

Yeah, I'm working with the possibility of 600, which is already very optimistic (150 more than the biggest reg dex so far) and would still leave ~300 pokémon out of the game. The chances of me getting all my favorites (in an universe of ~900 pokémon, anyone has many favorites) are pretty much null, but rather than "will I get all my favorites?" is more of a question of "do I need all my favorites to be in the game?"
Normally even my #1 favorite shouldn't be a dealbreaker since I only use newly introduce pokémon in my teams, so getting like all 20 of them would be as irrelevant as unlikely.

For personal reasons, this time (and only this time) I was planning to have multiple playthroughs, use the old pokémon I never did and finally have my "dream team" playthrough. Sucks for my plans that exactly this time GF decided to limit the availability of pokémon, so I may skip this game an wait for the third version if the "dream team" pokémon are not all available... but that was really a very bad coincidence, usually it shouldn't matter in the least for me so, while I was pissed the moment the change was announced, eventually I realized I was pissed for something I thought I required on a conceptual level, but that didn't really mattered in practical terms (and I assume the same realization will eventually hit a lot of people).

Still, the pre-orders should suffer from this. The fact GF is obviously not revealing the full dex early means that nobody will know if a pokémon is not on the game or if it was simply not early revealed until after the game's release. So even if someone only has 1 or 2 pokémon they think must be in it, unless those are early revealed the said person will probably wait until after the game release to make a call on whether they are buying it or not.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

About 75-85~ new Pokemon are created once every three years starting with Gen 6. Even if GF adds 100 new Pokemon every single generation, which they won't do, it would take another 20-30 YEARS to reach up to 2000. By that time? We'll have gone through so many innovations of hardware and technology, you better bet your buns I expect compatibility with every single 'Mon in 2040. In fact, we'll be on a whole new hardware set beyond Switch by Gen 9 alone.

I see it in pretty simple terms. If Sun/Moon on the 3DS could handle 800+ Pokemon, then Sword/Shield on a significantly more powerful machine should be able to handle 1000+ Pokemon. Nothing about the graphics or animations so far convinces me it was a worthy tradeoff. The Pokemon of Pokemon are the entire point to this franchise, and if GF had their priorities straight, instead of spreading themselves too thin with multiple gimmicks like Dynamaxing, Wild Areas, Pokemon Camping, the latest Contest-like gimmick, and god knows what all of the RotomPhone Photo Mode-esque gimmicks they're going to add, they would have gotten all of the Pokemon out of the way first and foremost before developing anything else about Gen 8.

See you say that but if they had just put out US and UM again with all your precious pokemon on the switch everyone would be complaining saying they are so lazy, where are the new features?? You wouldn't be saying oh well at least I can use Dragonite on the switch forget if the game is boring or not.

Also I love how people are acting like the graphics are all set and done and the game is already out. In just the three months since the game got revealed to the second direct the animation improved so to say that nothing else will change is quite the jump. I for one am thrilled about the animations of everything. People can make all the bug videos they want but that doesn't change the fact that every game ever has them, especially 5 months before release. The people in the region look gorgeous, they actually have some semblance of a personality, the world similarly looks amazing in the form of the towns and cities. And yes the pokemon look great too, especially the new ones which is the important ones, because again, they are new.

All these same people saying Dynamaxing is **** and awful are the same people who said Mega Evolution and Z moves were cheap and awful and now they want them back. Because they need some scapegoat to blame for something as always. As if Dynamaxing was taken out suddenly Chansey would be in the game.

No really they aren't. The National Dex has NEVER been the point of pokemon and it never will be. The whole point has always been to go to these different regions and to travel them and encounter all these new amazing creatures and have an adventure, not to use these two pokemon in a battle for 20 plus years because they are perfect together. In all honesty, I could give a damn if Charizard is here and great as long as the new pokemon introduced are great.

 

[Rainbowdashtheawesome]

I'm really excited for when analogous pokemon to those in the Galar Dex are removed (e.g Skarmory is being removed because Corviknight does everything that Skarmory does, except slight differences in stat distribution and movepool) meaning that around ~60 pokemon are removed in total.

I sure hope Galar has more than that many new Pokemon. My biggest complaint about gen 6 and 7 was that they had too few new species; I desperately want to go back to the days when new gens introduced at least 100.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

See you say that but if they had just put out US and UM again with all your precious pokemon on the switch everyone would be complaining saying they are so lazy, where are the new features??

I don't think that's quite a fair comparison, people want all the pokemon programmed in like they've been throughout the history of the main pokemon games. And they are claiming that with the resources at Gamefreak's disposal that should not be a major thing to ask for.

People in the past never made that big a deal about having all the pokemon programmed in largely because it was assumed that was how it would always be. Some speculated on them removing mega evolutions or z-moves, but outright removing entire pokemon from the game code was never considered realistic, at least with the numbers of pokemon that are likely to come from this and the next few generations.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I don't think that's quite a fair comparison, people want all the pokemon programmed in like they've been throughout the history of the main pokemon games. And they are claiming that with the resources at Gamefreak's disposal that should not be a major thing to ask for.

People in the past never made that big a deal about having all the pokemon programmed in largely because it was assumed that was how it would always be. Some speculated on them removing mega evolutions or z-moves, but outright removing entire pokemon from the game code was never considered realistic, at least with the numbers of pokemon that are likely to come from this and the next few generations.

It actually is, I've seen so many posts saying give me all my pokemon, I don't give a damn about anything else at this point it's ridiculous. You want to talk about setting a precedent?? All this outcry is just telling game freak, fine, ya'll just want all your pokemon, it's that easy, cool, less work for us. Then when they give you a game with passable graphics, 60 new pokemon, and all the old pokemon you can ever want, no one is allowed to complain about how boring the game is or how its a copy of past games and offers nothing new, because that is what people are saying in the complaints, screw the new stuff, give me back my old stuff.

 

[CHETTHEFAN]

considering they are removing some pokemon from the game due to developer constraints; do you think that they would cut shiny pokemon from the game as well? I just wouldn't be surprised anymore.

another question is if a pokemon that is in the dex like raichu, would the alolan version be allowed to be transferred(I assume not)?

and what about pokeballs that the pokemon are in, do you think they would do what they did for pokemon bank and reset pokeball types to the original upon transfer? or would they only change pokeball types that are not in the game like (dream/beast/etc etc)??

so many questions................

the whole news about possibly not being able to transfer some of my shinies from my old games (especially my pheremosa) make me a really really sad panda..........

 

[LordSerperior]

Let's say all Pokemon are programmed in. GF artists/animators put in all the work to make textures and animate Simisear and Stunfisk and Garbodor. Animate them for the Amie/contest/whatever other feature equivalents as well. All of the community is really happy. About 30% of them (which feels like an overestimate to me) actually bother transferring them in to complete their national dex. And like 10 people actually bother using these Pokemon. To me that sounds like a lot of wasted effort. For the person who put in the effort, that is very disheartening. Let's show a little altruism there as well and when looking at that one person who can't use their Simisear from White anymore.

Now, if these Pokemon are excluded from the game and brought back in the next game with a dex of 400 Pokemon, the chances of these Pokemon actually being used by people go up by a lot. As the number of Pokemon increases, the number of Pokemon that no one or a very very small minority of people use also goes higher. This ensures all the Pokemon that show up in a game are at least somewhat used by people. Sure, all Pokemon are never going to have the same popularity and you will still have some that are unpopular but the chances of them being used out of a smaller pool of Pokemon are higher than all 900 Pokemon (which will only increase). Yes, you can't use your favourite Pokemon, it's sad but it forces you to try Pokemon or team combinations that you wouldn't think of otherwise and might end up liking.

But I don't wanna be forced into using something I don't like! Well, then skip the game whose dex doesn't impress you. I didn't like most gen 4 Pokemon designs and I skipped those games regardless of how everyone else felt about them. It's a game, I'm sure you have other things you could do.

As for childhood attachments to Pokemon, well people lose real people and things they have attachments to as they grow up because of a number of different reasons. You learn to let go and move on, that's life. I'm sure it's at least somewhat easier with a character in a game. And it's not like you can never use them again. And if it still ends up being too big if a problem, then maybe it's time to move on from the franchise as a whole because it is no longer what satisfies you.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

It actually is, I've seen so many posts saying give me all my pokemon, I don't give a damn about anything else at this point it's ridiculous. You want to talk about setting a precedent?? All this outcry is just telling game freak, fine, ya'll just want all your pokemon, it's that easy, cool, less work for us. Then when they give you a game with passable graphics, 60 new pokemon, and all the old pokemon you can ever want, no one is allowed to complain about how boring the game is or how its a copy of past games and offers nothing new, because that is what people are saying in the complaints, screw the new stuff, give me back my old stuff.

Some people would certainly complain about lack of new things, they always do, however I'd bet money the outcry would be nothing compared to what the removal of old pokemon is getting.

Plus it really needn't be an either/or thing, if including the old pokemon is really as little of a problem as many are arguing.

 

[Leonhart]

considering they are removing some pokemon from the game due to developer constraints; do you think that they would cut shiny pokemon from the game as well? I just wouldn't be surprised anymore.

I'd be surprised if Shinies get hit since so many people collect them and the amount of backlash that Game Freak would receive for cutting them from Shield and Sword would probably be bigger than the backlash that they've received for cutting Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves.