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Pokemon SwSh Story Discussion Thread (Spoilers INCLUDING POSTGAME)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Sword & Shield Discussion' started by shoz999, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

    I actually don't mind them not being intimidating, as it goes to show kids that people who do bad things aren't always card carrying villains. They can be affable (like Rose) or hilariously pretentious (like the twins). But that's just my own personal preference as I enjoy villains who aren't stereotypically threatening but still manage to do some catastrophic things.

    Other than the nonsensical Rose plot, this has been my biggest gripe with SwSh plot. There were so many interesting tidbits that were on the league cards or mentioned in passing that were very relevant to the overall story that did not get more focus. Some of the most egregious ones to me were
    • Bede being an orphan (League Card)
    • Piers having a troubled relationship with Rose (NPC in Spikemuth Pokemon Center)
    • Leon being an incredibly hard to read person (Opal's notes on past gym challenger)
    • Sonia's tendency to give up easily + complicated relationship with Magnolia (Opal's notes on past gym challengers)
    • Sonia and Leon's soured rivalry (NPC in Wedgehurst)
    • Rose's actions not matching up to his words (Rare League Card)
    • The dynamics of the Major/Minor league (NPC in Motostoke)
    • Leon raising Hop (Sonia in the Budew Drop Inn)
    • The true nature of Dynamax (A random Trainer Tip's sign on route 10)
    Like all of those points above have huge implications for either the worldbuilding of Galar or the characters we interact with. All of those points if fleshed out more would have added so much depth to the story.
     
  2. Baggie_Saiyan

    Baggie_Saiyan Well-Known Member

    It's why I am desperate for an enhanced version next and not DP remake. Potential is there I would hate for Galar to be wasted like Kalos was.

    Honestly when we saw the starter intros I had such I hopes for the story cuz that was honestly brilliant, even seeing the Legend in the woods so early the whole eerieness of it all. Argh frustrating it never followed through on its potential.
     
    TwilightBlade, wolf jani and catzeye like this.
  3. DannyDark

    DannyDark The Earthquake Maker

    Honestly with all the change in positions of characters by the end.. Sonia becoming the Professor, Hop becoming an aide, Bede and Marnie becoming Gym Leaders.. and I could see Leon heading up the Gym Challenge in Rose's place.. I definitely think a sequel should happen, as opposed to a slightly enhanced rehash of the same story.

    Hell, if they weren't seemingly opposed to two regions in a game.. I think a crossover between Galar and Sinnoh would be great. It's mentioned how the Eternamaxed form of Eternatus twisted the surrounding Space/Time and had infinite energy.. which would most likely garner the attention of Palkia, Dialga and Giratina. Of course this is heavily leaning on lore and world-building which isn't really all that in Pokemon.. It's very frustrating when they make claims like Time and Space being disrupted and warped.. and seemingly ignore that there are two legendaries who are the actual embodiment and masters of those dimensions, but are seemingly fine with it.
     
  4. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Well-Known Member

    I was really confused by that, considering that both their parents and grandparents are very much around. What was going on that the responsibility of raising Hop fell to Leon?
     
  5. Ultra Beast Lover

    Ultra Beast Lover Well-Known Member

    Furthermore, how does Leon not know us then? Were we pen pals with Hop, did he send Hop to the same school as us? I dunno, maybe Hop and Leon were in the same boat as Bede and had to be sent to an orphanage where they lived until Leon became the champion and got enough money to buy a house.
     
    wolf jani likes this.
  6. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

    My only explanation is that we don't see their father around at all. Just their grandparents and mom. I'm guessing maybe their father either died or was a deadbeat causing their mom and grandparents to have to to work extra hard to pay the bills which would leave Hop and Leon alone a lot.

    Honestly, that would have been an interesting point to explore, particularly if their dad was a deadbeat. I just think of some of my classmates from highschool who had deadbeat fathers (and other shady family members) who tried to come back into their lives once they got signed to a sports team or got a record deal. I could see them writing a situation where Hop and Leon's father ran out on the family only to come back once Leon became champion (with Leon running his dad off with Charizard's flamethrower).

    My guess to that would be that like in Alola, our character moved to Postwick sometime after Leon became champion. So we know he's heard of us through Hop, but since he got swept up in being champion and doesn't come home often (according to his grandma and mom) probably wouldn't have crossed paths.

    The more I think about the plot holes in SwSh, the more I'm wanting for some type of updated version to do the region justice.
     
  7. Auraninja

    Auraninja I'm ready to Smash

    I don't think the story was really bad or anything. What it sort of lacked, it made up for it in moments.

    I liked forming a rivalry with Marnie. She wanted to become great on her own terms, but Team Yell wanted to support her, contrasting with her ideals. She was blunt yet sincere with her outlook, and she took you seriously enough that the fights with her were fun.

    I liked how Bede took on a different role. As someone who doesn't care about "jerk rivals", I felt like a shift in direction was an interesting turn of events for the character. He became a Fairy Gym Leader with his own Psychic twist to it, and he eventually get recognition even though he fell from grace.

    I also like how Piers is basically the black sheep of the gym leaders. He doesn't show up at the beginning of the ceremony. He also doesn't Dynamax, and his gym is an open field rather than a close stadium. It's nice that he tries to help you towards the end of the game.

    I loved the game of suspense while looking for a key to the tower. This sort of starts a interesting turn of events, but you can't continue until you find Waldo. Granted, it's not that hard, but I liked having to look around and pay attention to some extent.

    I particularly liked how Oleana completely loses her cool when she's trying to get the meeting between Leon and Rose. Prior, she was an unassuming secretary, but she shows her alternative personality because she's doing her job: making sure her boss gets the assistance he needs. The music during the fight is my favorite versus theme in the entire game.

    I liked how Rose wasn't even evil; he was trying to solve a relevant issue, even if it wasn't for years (you know I wished the people during the Industrial Revolution had that insight, but I digress). Unlike other villains, even those with initially good intentions, he never turned to evil. He was doing what he thought he should do to solve an energy crisis. This wasn't the best plan, obviously, but you see why he did it. He eventually learns his lesson though.

    I like fighting Eternatus with Hop and the cover legends. It was really a cool way to fight a boss, just like a Max Raid. Speaking of Hop, he turns from a pushover, to a self-doubter, to a trainer who tries to get himself back up, to eventually a really talented a rival, and finally, he wanted to become a professor after his experiences.
     
  8. Doomseed

    Doomseed Lurks most of the time

    The overal storymode was meh IMO.

    But it did had amazing moments so I am not too upset.

    I do think that GameFreak's focus on PvP did hurt the storymode section quite a bit.

    Atleast the postgame is very enjoyable :)
     
  9. CharizardFan09

    CharizardFan09 Well-Known Member

    Sun/Moon got game 2.

    So will Sword and Shield IMO.

    Silver/Gold deserves A 3RD.
     
    Ophie, TwilightBlade and shoz999 like this.
  10. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Personally I think RGBY deserves a sequel, a proper sequel with proper fanservice, none of that forced down Charizard stuff. I'm talking about real good fanservice like seeing an HD cutscene of Mt. Cinnabar's final moments before it erupts into an almost entirely different island, seeing the questionable construction of a brand new Radio Tower in place of the Pokemon Tower, seeing Team Rocket during the year without Giovanni, the year that Red went missing, Green Oak's days as Gym Leader, Janine rising to become Gym Leader while her father rises to become an Elite Four member, Bill making preparations to leave for Johto, the whereabouts of the original Kanto Elite Four members as Lance begins his duties as Pokemon Champion. There IS SO MUCH freaking lore in Kanto in the one year between the events of Gen 1 and Gen 2 that to this day, GameFreak has barely scratched the surface of what good Kanto fanservice can be that it honestly puzzles me why we haven't seen actual good Kanto fanservice yet since Gen 2 showed what Kanto was up to after two years. Although I like Let's Go to an extant, a RGBY 2 set in the year between Gen 1 and Gen 2 would've been so much better.
     
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  11. DaijobuPlease

    DaijobuPlease Well-Known Member

    I just finished the game, so my review is fairly fresh.

    I will start it off as competitively I enjoyed the battling focus of this game, but this game had ZERO ZERO story. I mean it did but it was a message story. Let kids be kids and stop kids and adults need to do better to make life good for children so they can focus on whats important instead of being involved in the mess that the adults created. It made the story to me something I really didnt care about because I was not involved, it was let the adults do this let the adults do that. Then at the Eternuas fight it was so lack luster, you basically sit there with your team attack and attack, i didnt even dynamax that fight. The legendary lion dogs just appeared to join the fight just cause we the universe needs saving. Them appearing was also so telegraphed since the start of the game with this forced mystery of galar history that was poorly explained. X and Y explained their history better and that was an incomplete story.. I understand the need to cut down to cut scenes and such which i enjoyed just getting right into the action but it was nearly not existent.

    My ideal game would be a mix of this battle focused feel with a black and white story line involvement with characters that are memorable and i felt like i was doing something to learn a lesson and not this by-standard feel to only be told let the adults handle things dont worry children we will solve everything for you, when in true reality thats not the case, and i get the message but most people who are adults are struggling to make that impact because a lot of the older adults are running things still and dont care and dont believe. i get the hopeful outlook but telling kids to just sit back and let the adults do it even though we can solve problems is poor.

    I am about to start post game but I am now just focused on competitive battles and shiny hunting
     
    shoz999 likes this.
  12. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Well-Known Member

    Personally, if there's any sort of RBY sequel, what I would love to see would be: "Kanto 20 years later" with the PC being the child of Red. Daisy Oak being the Professor and stuff like that.
    A friend and I did some world building this weekend for that:

    • We planned for a northern Expansion to the Kanto map with a wild area based on Lake Kasumigaura and it's surroundings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Kasumigaura The first three gym leaders would be found here and could be challenged in any order
    • Then in the mountains there'd be a fossil reach desert valley, surrounded by icy galciers where Brock and his wife (a new character) research fossil Pokemon (rock fossils, and preserved bodies found in ice), maybe with that "Fossil Park" Game Freak teased in SuMo. Brock and his wife would both be gym leaders of that town (a double battle. Rock and Ice)
    • After that you enter "old" Kanto at Cerulean City, where the son of Misty and Bill is the new Fairy Type gym leader
    • Saffron City would have grown to incorporate Celadon and Vermillion City into a true metropolis like Luminose City (and because the routes between those cities were miniscule.
    • There'd be a new, small settlement on Zinnabar Island, kinda like Pacifidlog and Seafolk Village.
    • The Gym Leader would be a female Fighting Type specialist from that Fighting Type Dojo, Sabrina meanwhile has joined the Elite 4.
    • The gyms and league would be big sporting events like in SwSh and the anime, with the Elite 4+Champion being faced at the end of the tournament.
    • The last Gym You face would be Blue's with a balanced team.
    • The Safari Zone would be a smaller wild area where you can find the various Alolan and Galarian forms of Pokemon.
    The Pokedex would be expanded to include (at least) all Johto Pokemon, and a number of Pokemon form the other regions. Plus 20 New Pokemon and 15 "Kantonian" Forms.

    Never gonna happen, but I'd love to see it.
     
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  13. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    You know funny you mentioned that. One of the big worries among the fans in Pokemon Adventures is will Red ever canonically get married, either in the games the manga adapts from or the manga itself, because he's not getting any younger lol.
     
    Ophie likes this.
  14. Bguy7

    Bguy7 The Dragon Lord

    Yeah, this story was a bit of a bust.

    The evil team tends to be the focus of the story, so I'll start with Team Yell. From the moment I first saw Team Yell, I didn't like them. I thought Team Skull seemed like too much of a joke and not an actual threat, and yet Team Yell made them seem downright evil in comparison. Throughout the entire game I kept on waiting for something to happen that would justify Team Yell to happen, but it never did. You could remove Team Yell from the story, and nothing would be different. They interacted with the plot in no way at all. All they did was battle at random times for no reason at all, and serve as roadblocks (oh how I miss HMs...), neither of which were necessary for the story and could have easily have had replacements. You could argue that Team Yell's story is Marnie's story, but seeing as she never actually interacts with them outside of Spikemuth, that really isn't the case. There contribution is made even worse when you realize that the Spikemuth Gym is not only one of the worse gym puzzles of all time, but also the worst Team HQ of all time. Where we used to get an intricate labyrinth spanning multiple floors, we instead got a literal hallway where we fight a small handful of grunts. Team Yell contributed absolutely nothing.

    To go back to the Team Skull comparison, Sun and Moon was saved from Team Skull by the Aether Foundation taking the role of the true evil team. You could argue that Macro Cosmos does the same here. But does it really? They don't appear until the very end of the game, when it's already far too late to save the story. And they way they were handled was so ridiculously confusing. Nothing at any point ever implied they were evil, only trying to stop two trespassing kids, and yet they treated as if they're evil, with people even flat-out calling them "bad guys." Not only that, but the game plays things up as if things are super tense, but they're just not. All you're doing is checking on Leon so you can have your moment in the spotlight, but Leon's busy with work. There's nothing tense about that. And Rose's motivation is downright confusing. I agree with the guy that people need to act sooner rather than later. But he can't wait one day to solve something that won't be a problem for a thousand years? Excuse me?

    That being said, the game's story had one major saving grace, and that's the way it ended. Once Eternatus was introduced, everything suddenly became a whole lot more interesting. I was saying for most of the game that the climax better involve a scripted Max Raid Battle where you fight alongside Hop and others. I didn't think they would actually do it. What made it even better was the introduction of Eternamax Eternatus. I've always wanted Pokémon to have a true final boss fight against a non-Pokémon entity, but never thought they would actually do it. They came close with Ultra Necrozma, but they actually did it here. Throw in the fighting alongside the Legendaries, and the experience was pure joy for me.
     
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  15. DaijobuPlease

    DaijobuPlease Well-Known Member

    I agree with you on the Team yell being pointless road blocks just for no reason and then their cooked up reveal of hey we are actually gym associates in costumes. With that being said i did like Spikemuth though only because it was clear what he was doing, he was a rebel which went well with the theme of change of not wanting the formula of pokemon battles to change and just have a straight regular gym fight. There could have been a more of a puzzle than just being a straight path of battling the grunts to make it feel like he was trying to eliminate you from the challenge or more of an onslaught of battles than just the few to completely tire out your team before reaching him to further solidify his reason is to make Marnie win so she can take over the gym.


    Side note the eternaus moment was cool and all until it was ruined by the fact i only used one pokemon did regular attacks with no dynamaxing was yeah and only to catch it in whatever ball you please because the game was locked into beat and catch was pretty downing for me, I legit threw a standard pokeball, I almost did a premier ball just because
     
  16. Auraninja

    Auraninja I'm ready to Smash

    You know, I forgot to mention the Leon Battle, since that was probably the most hype of champion battles.
    Since it was big in the story, and there was an audience wanting a show, it was a very good moment in the game.
     
  17. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Honestly I think the big problem is there wasn't more hype to it. Love the little expressions he gives off when he's the Pokemon Champion and when he's not the Pokemon Champion, implying that he is now just another trainer after you took everything from him.
     
    Ophie likes this.
  18. Bguy7

    Bguy7 The Dragon Lord

    I didn't mind Piers as a character for the reasons you stated, but if we treat him as the Team Boss, then he falls flat. As far as I could tell (and maybe I'm missing something), he wasn't even aware of what Team Yell was doing. Their interference with the gym challenge seemed to be something they took upon themselves after Piers said how much he wanted Marnie to win. So even though he fills the role as a Team Boss, he really isn't one at all.

    And then there's the fact that he just wasn't a satisfying villain at all. Team Skull may haven ever been meant to be the true villains of Sun and Moon, but at least Guzma still felt like a threat. Piers was just another gym leader, only with mopey personality.

    He was clearly the gym leader with the strongest characterization and story, and that's good for a gym leader, but in the role of Team Boss he just fell flat. And since Rose wasn't really a true villain either, that just left us with nothing. I guess you could say that Eternatus was the true villain, but since it doesn't appear until the very end of the game, that leaves 99% of the game without a real villain.

    I know exactly what you're saying and would agree in almost any other circumstance (I actually did catch Eternatus in a Premier Ball...), however, the setup was just so fun that I found myself not caring. It was an event all about story and not so much gameplay, which I don't mind so much, if handled in a proper way. Of course, it would have been even better if they made it a challenge, but hey, that's just the next step in their evolution of final boss battles.
     
  19. Ophie

    Ophie Salingerian Phony

    Regarding Spikemuth and its layout: I hadn't thought about it until a couple of days ago, but I realize now that it was intended to resemble an urban beat-em-up game, particularly the Streets of Rage and River City Ransom games. It's supposed to be a long, narrow path with few turns because the stages in those games were built that way too. There are invisible walls in those games, though in this one Mr. Mime creates them (I was wondering what Mr. Mime was doing in a Dark-type gym challenge until I realized that), and there's even a sign with an arrow pointing right and reading "GO" like those games. All of your opponents are dumb street thugs who run right at you whom you can easily dispatch, but at the end is the one running the district who is significantly harder to take down and a lot smarter.

    Hop also grows to become even better than Leon. Notice that he is the only character in the game, other than the protagonist, to have Pokémon with levels above 65, which was Leon's best until the Champion Cup rematches. Even Sordward and Shielbert, postgame villains, top at Level 64.

    Even then, Leon only catches up to Hop, not exceeding him, as both of them have one Pokémon at Level 68, one at Level 69, and three at Level 70.
     
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  20. Ohshi

    Ohshi Banned from Club Penguin

    I agree. Those descendants of the original kings were more interesting that Chairman Rose going crazy. It seems out of nowhere that Rose would feel that type of way. Like the dude is the most successful business man in Galar, everyone keeps saying that he like controls most of the companies or some **** like that. Why would he throw it all out? I think it would be more meaningful if during the story, there’s scenes that make him more fleshed out like a reason of why would he be scared of Galar losing its power. Maybe he had dreams or visions of a disaster coming in a week or something. Rather than him doing research that only in a thousand ****ing years, that’s when Galar would finally fun out of energy. Please. The dude wouldn’t even live that long and surely Galar would figure out something by then and probably would have even more advanced technology to either have more energy or an alternate source. Jeeze.

    So yeah more story for those king descendants would have been more interesting. Definitely would have given me more closure about Gen 5’s royalty story too. We never did find out who are the heirs for the original Unova king brothers too. Besides, the Galar king brothers would have definitely been more bad ass if they even had evil team following them too. All they do is go around the region and making all random Pokémon just dynamax like what just the kings were doing in the post game. But if they had a team, they definitely could have caused more damage. This evil team would be way better than freaking Team Yell or Rose’s goons.
     
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