Pokemon that shouldn't get Discussion threads

[AromaFlora]

UNSTICKIED TO REDUCE CLUTTER. also sorry for not responding, it's kinda hard with school, life, self, etc.

Making Pokemon Discussion Threads

- Put some effort into creating the discussion thread. Describe the Pokemon in question, and list its stats, abilities, capabilities, and what it can do in a certain metagame (or multiple!).
- Post some of the most viable sets there. Yeah, basically the standard, with their EVs, natures, ability of choice, items, and moves (plus alternatives if necessary). Don't give gimmick sets their glory - maybe a sentence or two but that's it.
- Don't have content that will derail the discussion. If it's about Rapidash, don't put questions about how Misty's Starmie can defeat Ash's Pikachu or something like that.
- Be cool!

- If a good amount of people start bashing the Pokemon, then I think I may need to check on that... (aka lock and add here).

DON'T BE LAZY!

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Hey, figured we might as well make a list of Pokemon to avoid because they suck too much. This might help people avoid making topics that don't really provide much discussion.

I'm not talking about top-tier RU Pokemon and their effectiveness in OU, I'm just talking about the junks of the junk (which I guess is RU at the moment). Basically, stuff like Luvdisc, Farfetch'd, and Pidgeot that really got nothing going for them in RU.

If you want to argue for a Pokemon to get in OR out of the list, you are free to do so! Just don't troll and say "Latios should be banned to Uber" or "add Excadrill to the list!". This is for bad Pokemon. <_< Your best bet for testing is in RU, although a certain Pokemon may have a niche in another tier.

Remember, this is for standard Smogon 1v1s, not doubles or anything like that.

All the stuff with "debatable" is just my own thoughts. Hope that doesn't get confusing!

- Arbok
- Ariados
- Audino
- Basculin (all forms)
- Bastiodon
- Beautifly
- Beedrill
- Bellossom
- Bibarel
- Butterfree
- Carnivine
- Castform
- Chatot
- Cherrim
- Chimecho
- Corsola
- Delcatty
- Delibird
- Dewgong
- Ditto (for now)
- Dunsparce
- Dustox
- Emolga
- Exploud
- Farfetch'd
- Fearow
- Flareon
- Furret
- Garbodor
- Girafarig
- Glalie
- Golem
- Gothitelle
- Granbull
- Grumpig
- Heatmor
- Hypno
- Illumise
- Kecleon
- Klinklang
- Kricketune
- Ledian
- Liepard
- Lumineon
- Lunatone
- Luvdisc
- Magcargo
- Mantine
- Maractus
- Masquerain
- Mawile
- Meganium
- Mightyena
- Minun
- Mothim
- Noctowl
- Pachirisu
- Pelipper
- Persian
- Phione
- Pidgeot
- Pikachu
- Plusle
- Probopass (debatable)
- Purugly
- Regigigas
- Samurott
- Sandslash (for now)
- Seaking
- Seismitoad
- Seviper
- Slaking (debatable)
- Solrock
- Spinda
- Stantler
- Sudowoodo
- Sunflora
- Swalot
- Swanna
- Swoobat
- Unfezant
- Unown
- Vanilluxe
- Vespiquen
- Vileplume
- Wailord
- Watchog
- Wigglytuff
- Wormadam family
- Zangoose
- Zebstrika

This might be a fun thread.

Also, we might just start off with Zangoose. yes/no? discuss plox.

 

[AromaFlora]

In this thread, we intelligently discuss why a Pokemon sucks, lucario. Gotta be convincing!

 

[Aquadon]

Also, we might just start off with Zangoose. yes/no? discuss plox.

Not sure what you're trying to start? Are you asking if he's worth debating or not? I personally would say no, but at the same time I understand how Toxic Boost compounded with things like Close Combat, STAB Return, Night Slash/Pursuit, and a few other options would work. His Physical movepool is fairly shallow though, and his Defenses/SpA are pathetic. Possible Bander or Scarfer, but that's at best (especially Band + lucky Toxic)

I'm all for debating Parasect though. He's utter garbage in most cases, but with the presence of Drizzle Politoed, Dry Skin Parasect has something to write home about, as it regains 1/8 of its HP back in the Rain (3/16 if you add a Leftovers). This means it can Sub on a switch, regain the HP in 2 turns, and fire off 100% accurate Spores among other options (I remember early Gen IV Smogon had a set called Psychic Spooker, which gave Parasect both Pursuit and X-Scissor to scare the heck out of Psychic-types like Alakazam). It can raise attack with Swords Dance, or act as a Supporter with DualSpores and Aromatherapy. Sub Seed is a viable option, but if you want to Sub Seed there's usually better options . Simply put, I feel like with Rain Parasect can actually become more useful than his crappy stats let on.

 

[lucario44444444]

For starters, Zangoose has frail defenses and is KOed easily, a 90 speed really lets you down. In addition, he is outclassed as a hard hitter by Electivire and some others such as Durant

 

[AromaFlora]

Yes, that's what this thread is meant for, Aquadon.

Anyway, now all a person looking for why their Zangoose Discussion thread or something else isn't being approved can just look here. Good points both of you! Watch the Zangoose thread go boom.

 

[PokeMaster366]

Golem, Golem, Golem. I've trained a lot of pokemon in my life, but you are, by far, the worst. His offensive set is always 1upped by the Rypherior, he can't get any use out of Sturdy, and is only good for setting up rocks b/c he's too slow to hit first and too Sloow to learn any other good moves other than EQ and Stone Miss. They say that Garchomp is Uber, but next to Golem, Focus Sash Butterfree would be considered uber. If you want to hear something similar, type in "the Roast of Mario" in the youtube search box. It's a funny video from CollegeHumor.

 

[Farfan]

:O Zangoose is my favourite pokemon
But yeah, he sucks. He got something useful this generation tough, his DW ability!

Toxic Boost: Attack stat increased by 50% when Poisoned

Zangoose @Toxic Orb
EVs: 252 Speed / 252 atk
Trait: Toxic Boost
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Facade/Quick Attack
- Close Combat
- Night Slash?

Zangoose gets his attack boosted by 50%!!!...Too bad he has 90 base speed, being outclassed by orb users like Swellow.

 

[mudkips]

:O Zangoose is my favourite pokemon
But yeah, he sucks. He got something useful this generation tough, his DW ability!

Toxic Boost: Attack stat increased by 50% when Poisoned

Zangoose @Toxic Orb
EVs: 252 Speed / 252 atk
Trait: Toxic Boost
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Facade/Quick Attack
- Close Combat
- Night Slash?

Zangoose gets his attack boosted by 50%!!!...Too bad he has 90 base speed, being outclassed by orb users like Swellow.

Umm....90 speed+crap defences=shit....

 

[Vandslaux]

Add Umbreon. Weak to Fighting, no offense, healing that's hindered by weather, gives Conk BU setup fodder, he's just HORRIBLE. Not to mention that it's outclassed in every way possible by BU Scrafty.

 

[mudkips]

And floatzel is OK in RU on an RU rain team.

 

[Vandslaux]

Oh, and Umbreon sucks, even in RU.

Cress REALLY outclasses it. If you're outclassed by Cress, I think you've hit the bottom of the barrel.

And Liepard's actually a solid crippler in DW UU. Toxic/T-Wave/Taunt/Sucker Punch with Sash messes with tons of stuff.

 

[AromaFlora]

Oh yeah, Parasect is fairly interesting. It can switch into most Water-types such as Rotom-W, Jellicent, Politoed, and Vaporeon fairly easily and get a sleep off, though at the risk of being burned/Toxiced/Taunted in Jellicent's case. I'm pretty sure even Starmie gets its butt handed to by Parasect due to its +12.5% healing in the rain. Stealth Rock weakness is meh, but that can be healed off (especially when Parasect constantly switches into Water-type attacks). I'm sad it cannot abuse its dual Ground weakness that well, since Excadrill and friends usually carry Rock Slide/Stone Edge. Electric-types such as Magnezone... err nvm, they can carry Substitute and Thundurus is pretty mean. Fighting-types... hmm, if Conkeldurr has Payback, Parasect can possibly switch into it and sleep it with ease, which is pretty cool. Small niche, but usable nonetheless.

Umbreon's pretty good in UU as a Wishpasser (oddly enough it's only decent in RU, mostly because of Bug spam but nonetheless usable). It gets opportunities to Wish/Toxic on stuff like Blastoise, non-Substitute Abomasnow, Donphan, Hippo, Milotic, and a few others and takes on Mismagius, Azelf, Sigilyph, etc which may get annoying. Lack of good Steels outsides out of Bisharp, Escavalier, Cobalion does Umbreon a favor too (but them combined with the Poison-types... eh I guess there are still a fair amount of stuff that walls Toxic). Heal Bell is also great in tandem with Synchronize to quickly status a target while clearing Umbreon's and the team's. But yes, it's just decent to bad in OU since mons hit too hard and it doesn't do much outside of healing at that tier (too much Steels I guess). When someone can get to the top 1-4 with Umbreon in UU (Jubilee <3), though, it's honestly not as bad as you're thinking it is.

Floatzel is decent, yeah. Not much to say about it though. May need more input from others (never personally seen or used it).

Liepard wants more input from others too I guess.

edit: Cinccino's actually pretty good in RU so removed.

 

[complete legitimacy]

I'm sorry for interrupting the discussion, but quite frankly I think it's funny that you have to make a thread saying, "These Pokemon suck too much. Don't make a discussion thread about them."

 

[Aquadon]

I'm sorry for interrupting the discussion, but quite frankly I think it's funny that you have to make a thread saying, "These Pokemon suck too much. Don't make a discussion thread about them."

Funny story; Smogon has this exact same thread.

I think Volbeat might need another look now, given that it can now Prankster Tail Glow Pass. Don't think it'll do too well in the upper tears, but this can be devastating in the lower Tiers.

 

[xxh0wlw0lfxx]

Well Banette is a good pokemon,IMO If used in a trick toom team it's pretty beast with 130 attack stat,but thats just my opinion

 

[Guildenstarn]

Two on the list that might be debatable are shedninja and Audino.

Shedninja works great as a Rain counter with Spin support, since most rain pokes cant touch him. Toed, Ferro, Rotom, Toxicroak, Jirachi without fire punch, thunderus, scizor, Tentacruel, Latios w/o HPfire, and then the rain removes any SS or Hail that would kill him.
Shedninja@ Focus sash/ Muscleband
Adamant, 252 ATK, 252 SPE 4 whatever
Swords Dance
Shadow Sneak
X-scissor
Will-o-wisp

Come in on any of the above pokemon, SD up, and watch in awe as several teams fail to ever do anything to you. Will-o-wisp to PP stall suckerpunches. Gimmicky, but it can work if you can eliminate any pokemon with a SE move (or Toxic)

Audino I only bring up because VGC 2012 is coming up, and she works pretty good as a suppport pokemon.

Audino@ Leftovers
Healer
Timid, 252 HP, 4 SDEF, 252 SPE
Simple Beam
Heal Pulse
Helping Hand
Yawn/Heal Bell/ Toxic/Reflect/ Lightscreen

A Gimmicky set yeah, but it works pretty good when pared with good set up sweepers that dont really need their ability, like Volcarona. All the speed is so that you can hit your Quiet Volcarona with Simple Beam, so that it gets double all those boosts, and can then kill a buncha stuff with Heat Wave. Audino is also the only pokemon to get Simple Beam and Heal Pulse, so you dont have to worry as much about Volc dying. The last slot is kinda useless, so just run wichever one of those you think is best, I like Yawn to force switches and get free attacks for Volc. Also works well with things like DDtar or Lucario.

 

[kaiser soze]

Funny story; Smogon has this exact same thread.

I think Volbeat might need another look now, given that it can now Prankster Tail Glow Pass. Don't think it'll do too well in the upper tears, but this can be devastating in the lower Tiers.

Seconding Volbeat b/c DW Volbeat has just been released.

 

[Blue Harvest]

Dodrio isn't that bad. 110 base attack and 100 base speed with two 120 BP moves in Brave Bird and Thrash. In UU it can just throw Brave Birds at teams, cutting apart even walls like intimidate Arcanine and Chansey. It faces competition from Braviary and Honchkrow but it's a lot faster than both of them which lets it outrun Arcanine and wall break a little easier. I guess you can use it in RU though Cresselia can narrowly avoid a 2HKO.

Rampardos is virtually impossible to switch into with Encourage and Head Smash / Superpower / Fire Blast / Ice Beam. It can run Rock Polish, Choice Scarf and so on. Not great but its better than most of the other useless pokes. Its also decently bulky in sandstorm, surviving stuff like Heatran's Earth Power and random Scalds.

Raticate is REALLY good. Guts Facade hits harder than LO Groudon's Earthquake and Lucario's Close Combat (Guts gives it about 146 base attack). It has 97 base speed and access to all the moves it needs to sweep. No its not usable in OU lol but unlike Ursaring it can use its super-powered attacks without worry of retaliation. It also gets Sucker Punch to remove stuff like Alakazam.

I agree with the others though.

 

[Haru Glory]

I would talk about Arbok a bit.
He's not crappy at all, has good Attack and Speed, its Defenses are low, but 5th Gen adjusted them, with Coil.

Here's a set I've thought about.

Arbok @ Black Sludge
Careful, Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SpD
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch/Rest/Ice Fang

This set aims at making Arbok a good wall, while being a good Attacker.
Coil gives +1 Attack, +1 Defense and +1 Accuracy, giving more power to the STAB Gunk Shot, fear it! Earthquake gives coverage against what Poison can't hit, such as Steels.
The last move is a toss-up: Sucker Punch has Priority, and hits Ghosts, another thing Poison and Ground can't do well; Rest comboes well with Shed Skin, waking him up instantly; Ice Fang can hit Dragons, Gliscor, Landorus, you know the drill.
Personally, I would go with Sucker Punch. Priority, good power after all, needs a bit of prediction but works.

 

[Blue Harvest]

I'm about to add a rule asking people to make sure the discussion OP isn't utter garbage. On Smogon they enforce a good OP rule. Here we have.. this.