Pokemon's "Dark Age" (Gen III-Gen V)

[Rune Knight]

I also believe that the too cool for Pokémon phase was the root cause. The fact that newer generations of children were likely a little hesitant to throw themselves into an already aged franchise in favor of newer ones with graphical superiority; like compare Pokémon's pixel art to games that the Xbox and Playstation consoles had to offer; that along with trying to convince their parents to buy the extra systems along with the games. I always went with Nintendo, but from what I remember a lot of the kids from when I was in school sought to favor the other competitors.

I'm glad to see that Pokémon is on its feet again, and honestly, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, I think that it's far more popular now.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Just for kicks, I thought it might be interesting for people to share their memories of living through what I'm calling Pokemon's "Dark Age," which I would say lasted approximately from Gen III to Gen V. Now, to be clear, I am not talking about the quality of the games, anime, TCG, or any other affiliated media around this time. Rather, this was a dark time because right around the time Gen III started up, at least in the US, the initial hype train for Pokemon had died down, and the franchise was mostly considered "kids' stuff" and typically hated by the general public. I think the overall negativity started to decline after Black and White came out, but definitely by the start of Gen VI it was considered cool and nostalgic to like Pokemon again. It might just be a bit of fun to air out our collective traumas, as well as show some of the younger fans how rough it could get to be a Pokemon fan back in the day.

For me, I was still in elementary school for all of Gen III, so this didn't yet affect me very much. I had plenty of friends who both played the games and still watched the anime. However, a lot of that changed once I went to middle school, which was actually a few months after Diamond and Pearl came out in North America. At first, a lot of people I knew just seemed to casually quit being fans of the series, which didn't seem too unusual. However, over time I noticed a growing hostility, particularly from older students, towards people that would openly admit to liking Pokemon. The antagonism would range from being called names like nerd, p***y, or even the "F" slur, to just straight up being harassed and/or beaten up.

As you can imagine, I had to keep my fandom for Pokemon closeted at this time. Even around my own family, I felt ashamed to admit I still enjoyed it. As a result, I never got Platinum, HeartGold, or SoulSilver during their initial release, having to opt to pirate the games on my laptop just to play them in peace. I also kept up with the anime as best as I could through either YouTube (when available) or some of those sketchy streaming websites. My only solace was browsing online communities (such as Serebii) to bond with fellow fans.

By the time I got to high school, Black and White were about to be released. I wouldn't say there were a ton of people open about liking Pokemon at this point, but the overall hatred was moving more towards apathy from what I could tell. I had also built up a decent savings doing odd jobs around this time, so I could actually buy the games for myself. Once they were released, I found a small yet devoted group of acquaintances at school that I could just talk Pokemon with. It was a relief after having to keep my mouth shut about it for so long, and I actually look back on this time pretty fondly. Further into the future, by the time X and Y were released, even some of the preppier people at school had gotten a 3DS and were playing the games. I think this was also helped by the emergence of geek culture into the mainstream around this time. Playing Pokemon was just something people did, and this definitely paved the way for Pokemon Go to break into the public consciousness a few years later.

I know a lot of that sounded dramatic, but that was at least some of my experience growing up with Pokemon. Fortunately now as an adult, I can enjoy the franchise with little to no judgment from others. But even so, at some point you just have to stop caring what people think about your hobbies and like what you like in peace. Would love to hear some of your guys' experience with Pokemon during this time in your life!

While I read your passage, I'm afraid I'm going to have edit your sentiment: Only Gen III is the Dark Age.

Gen IV is essentially the franchise's moment of salvation. You see, by the release of Ruby & Sapphire, Pokémon had indeed taken a fall. The vast majority of fans had already lost interest and left. Gen III saw no new icons or exciting features to meet the masses. Not even FireRed & LeafGreen were enough to bring people back. Ruby & Sapphire marked the first time a main installment fell below 20 million copies; in fact, the title fell to 16 million. It was depressing low. And then 2006 came...

With Gen IV, the franchise received a number of blessings that saved it from total ruin:

1. Wi-Fi. Diamond & Pearl's online compatibility united the entire fandom, no longer limiting players to the shuttering confines of local connection to trade or battle with others. This made Pokémon far more accessible than it was even in 1998.
2. Lucario. Gen IV saw its first iconic Pokémon character since Gen 1, an immensely popular character that both diehard fans and casuals (and even folks who aren't fans at all) can recognize. This not only increased attention towards the game and anime, but also merchandise, the franchise's largest accruement of revenue.
3. Sales. Gen IV saw the first upward trend of title sales since the decline began in 1999. Diamond & Pearl, Platinum and HearGold & SoulSilver all outsold their respective predecessors, with Diamond & Pearl becoming the fastest-selling Pokémon game at the time. The franchise also saw a great increase in merchandise sales compared to previous years, most notably the trading card game. An August 2007 New York Times article elaborates on the "revival" of the franchise that year, noting mass increase in game and merch sales compared to previous years, crediting the franchise's clever rebranding as the reason.

Yes, Black & White remains highly controversial, but it is because of Gen IV that those games even saw the light of day. Without Diamond & Pearl, there would be no Sword & Shield, and most definitely, no Legends Arceus. The franchise was saved in 2006, and I think we ought to recognize the games that helped make it so.

 

[Auraninja]

Quite honestly, the "dark age" for me started in Gen I, where if you watch the anime, you were into baby cartoons.

Pokemon has been stigmitized on my end for a long time, and it was when I left high school that I didn't have to deal with that noise.

 

[Xaby]

Not sure what you mean by the dark ages during that period, most of my friends were into playing Pokémon during that time. Gen IV's internet connectivity helped a lot, as we were all able to talk about and play with each other at home during our down times. The changes per generation was and of much discussion between all of us: the introduction of natures and EV training in the 3rd (we all got our info about those here in serebii); the physical-special split of the 4th; and Hidden Abilities (which were Dream World abilities at that time), leading to the inevitable Weather Wars of the 5th. It may seem subtle to the outside observer, but there were plenty of things to talk about during the GBA and DS era.

Ironically, what I would personally call the "Dark Era" would actually be where we are now. I don't want to sound like a gatekeeper, and it would be inaccurate to say that Pokémon started to "suck" when GO made it mainstream, as the games introduced during GO's hyp, the Gen 7 SunMoon series, were still pretty stellar, if not starting to get repetitive. Unfortunately, GameFreak hasn't, and still isn't, transitioning into 3D engines well. Gen 8's Sword and Shield were forgivable starting forays into unknown territory, but everything after that is really not up to par. And with how the company is starting to get more into the cash grab aspects of the franchise, you'd think they'd have more funding to get their quality control in order.

 

[Tsukuyomi56]

Not sure what you mean by the dark ages during that period, most of my friends were into playing Pokémon during that time. Gen IV's internet connectivity helped a lot, as we were all able to talk about and play with each other at home during our down times. The changes per generation was and of much discussion between all of us: the introduction of natures and EV training in the 3rd (we all got our info about those here in serebii); the physical-special split of the 4th; and Hidden Abilities (which were Dream World abilities at that time), leading to the inevitable Weather Wars of the 5th. It may seem subtle to the outside observer, but there were plenty of things to talk about during the GBA and DS era.

By "dark" age it is around Gen 3 when the first Pokemania boon faded and it is no longer "cool" to still like Pokemon. If you are not fortunate to have friends that still like Pokemon at best you are an "odd duck" or have to suffer teasing or bullying at worst (sadly the case for me, at least the teasing faded away).

The anime suffered harder between the voice actor change around the Battle Frontier(?) series which may have lost a few fans and for many having to struggle through the Gen 5 anime series. Unlike the Gen 5 games, there does not seem to be a hindsight fondness for Best Wishes.

 

[Xaby]

By "dark" age it is around Gen 3 when the first Pokemania boon faded at it is no longer "cool" to still like Pokemon. If you are not fortunate to have friends that still like Pokemon at best you are an "odd duck" or have to suffer teasing or bullying at worst (sadly the case for me, at least the teasing faded away). Gen 5 could considered a dark time for the anime as even now the associated anime series is likely still one of the least impressive ones up to now.

On the other hand, it is hard to qualitatively and quantitatively say that it was a "Dark Time" during that period, or any other period if we're going by the player's experience. Personal circumstance may influence how one experiences a game, but I think it will be hard to make it a generalization.

For example, if we use this forum as a baseline, one could say that the DS period of Gen IV to VI were the heydays, as there is definitely more active users during that time, and that right now during the Switch series of games is a dead period.

The anime is another metric, and a more wild one at that (let's not ask the fandom on that), but that being the case, I find it hard using the anime period because:
1) game generations and the anime series doesn't really match up the same time period exactly;
2) the show and the game have greatly different factors affecting their quality and popularity, which may not be reflective of each other (like how many people liked XY because it was mature, or why I liked Sun/Moon because the motion graphics was better, etcetera etcetera); and
3) people who appreciate the anime won't necessarily intersect with the other group (I have friends who only play the game and I have friends who only watch the anime. They can relate with each other, but it's unlikely they'll try the other product).

While not invalidating personal experiences and opinions, but putting them aside to come to a more objective definition, I just can't see a period which can be seen as a "Dark Time". There has certainly been many ups and downs, with some better or worse than the others, but I just can't see it being defined on the whole.

 

[Chaos Emperor]

The “dark times”of Pokemon imo are gen 3 being the first dark period and gen 8 onward as the second.

With gen 3, it was mainly a result of bad timing for most of its problems; pokemania died out going into gen 3 for one, two most of the OG pokefans were going into high school around that time, where the pressure to be cool and “mature” takes priority above all else. Third, the fact that gen 3 was the first “dexit” with only 202 of the 386 available in ruby/sapphire, and with no way to connecting to gen 1/2 and even though frlg eventually made the rest available, it still wasn’t the same mons that many fans had from day 1.

I remember finding this site during gen 3, and most of the fandom was out for blood way back then with terms like genwunner popping up around that time. However by the time gen 4 started, most of the hate had fizzled out. The edgy high schoolers entered college where nerdy things reign supreme, and the massive sales of the ds allowed a lot of new fans to replace any old fans who left completely. Plus being able to trade/battle worldwide and doing so wirelessly was seen as very ambitious given the ds’ limitations.

Gen 4 and 5 I call “the calm” since the fandom had largely chilled out compared to gen 3. Gen 6 and 7 I call “the uncertainty” since fans were getting a bit annoyed by some of the stuff the developers did during that time but not necessarily full on toxicity, then sword and shield happened, and u know the rest.

Now the fandom is even more hatefilled than even the worst I saw during gen 3; at least back then social media wasn’t a thing so one’s anger could only reach so far. But now the level of hate combined with the amplification of Reddit/twitter/YouTube, means some fans will accept nothing less than a game that has literally everything the main series has seen thus far (meaning literally every region/gym leader/elite 4/champion/ battle frontier /villainous team/other major and minor battle gimmick) and multiplied to an extent that even the upcoming zelda tears of the kingdom would look like Pokemon gen 1 by comparison, despite the fact that such a request is not only unrealistic but would be impossible even on a ps5 let alone the switch.

The solution to this comes from both sides, meaning developers and the fans. Yes game freak can and should do better, maybe ask Nintendo for some extra help with whatever the main issue is (most likely manpower as games require more people the more advanced tech becomes). As for the fans, they need to understand that just because the franchise hits a rough patch, it doesn’t mean the developers are greedy/lazy/evil/etc. (especially since the complaint's many poeple have aren’t exclusive to Pokemon/nintendo) nor does it mean u can go off with death threats and nitpick something minor (like the infamous tree) and cry ruined forever.

Every franchise has its ups and downs, and every game (yes even the gen 5 games) have some kind of flaw to them; that doesn’t mean evil intent on behalf of the developers. as bad as some choices have been, we’re still nowhere near EA levels of bad. The fact the franchise is still here and still has as many fans as it does means it must be doing SOMETHING right. And while whatever problems are going on on the inside of gamefreak/the Pokemon company that fans never see might take some time to fix (meaning we might see gen 10 as a continuation of this second dark age or maybe it’ll be a second calm) they will get fixed. I promise.

 

[janejane6178]

In my opinion the dark age was during SM and JN

 

[Alolan Glaceon]

In my opinion BW and XY was very dark age

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

In my opinion BW and XY was very dark age

This, both series were terrible and XY was cringe as heck.

 

[Alolan Glaceon]

This, both series were terrible and XY was cringe as heck.

Be willing to explain why not to be groundless. After BW, I expected something like in games where it was really dark and interesting, unfortunately they flattened it a lot and Team Rocket vs Team Plasma episodes were never emmited, which is a pity. Iris was the other Misty and Clian was catching up a bit. However, what Roxie then showed 6 vs 2 pokemons as far as I remember was unthinkable, the fight with Wattson was more epic. Then we had a league which unfortunately was very bad and poorly presented and Vergil was only supposed to promote Pokemon Ranger as far as I remember. XY and only shounen a bit less well made we have a heroine who is the second Nami/Orichime/Lucy/Bulma/Chichii/Tea or other by the set and does nothing and sighs for Ash, yes, there were some sweet moments and since Serena had a goal it was better. But later they added Alain and others without explaining too much, in the specials yes. Well, Ash's failure is also an important issue are the fanatics who began to be worse than the Kanto or Sinnoh genwunners.

 

[SunGodNika1997]

I should have known when I made this thread that the original meaning and intention would eventually be lost.

 

[Auraninja]

I should have known when I made this thread that the original meaning and intention would eventually be lost.

I got what you meant. For me, Pokemon was stigmatized since it's inception, with the cartoon being seen as childish as I mentioned earlier. When Gold/Silver came around, I was in a group of people that still liked the series. Ruby and Sapphire came around when I moved to a different school district, and during the third gen, I was called out on the school bus for liking Pokemon since it was seen as childish as I whole. Diamond and Pearl was a little before I went to college, and after I went to a college I could stand, it didn't really matter what I liked.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I should have known when I made this thread that the original meaning and intention would eventually be lost.

Unfortunately it seems like people don't read the OP sometimes. Also, the topic of what constitutes a "dark age" is a very emotionally charged one, as some people may have strong feelings over which gens they dislike (and for various reasons, I'm mostly focused on the games but I see several posters above focusing on the anime). I myself fall into the latter category, even though I knew and understood your original intention I strongly dislike the Gen 5-7 era enough that I felt the need to mention it as an aside while still focusing on the topic you meant to discuss.

 

[U.N. Owen]

There’s the common definition of dark age which means “Any era I dislike” and then there’s the definition of dark age this thread uses which is “The franchise contracts in popularity and becomes (or is perceived as) a more niche hobby rather than a mainstream one.”

 

[Missingno.Fan]

I was mostly an adolescent/ teenager during this time. I remember the games being at least moderately popular. Nobody my age really cared about the anime.

 

[Palamon]

I don't think generations III-V was the Pokemon "Dark Age" completely, but I do recall hearing gen III was when Pokemon was in a small decline, for awhile.

I suppose it shows, though especially during this time period, Pokemon games sales were far lower (while still doing numbers) during this era not reaching over 20,000,000.

But, yeah, I feel you, when I was getting into Pokemon in Elementary School, people weren't nice to me about it. At all. But, by High School, there were a lot of people that were playing. But, kids are weird and bully people over the stupidest things. I was bullied for liking Pokemon by the neighbor kids when I was like...10. Really annoying.

& I also got told "Pokemon is dead" in the 5th grade by some adult. Very discouraging to hear something like that, but eh.

So, I get you, and what you mean.
I never hid liking Pokemon despite how many people made fun of me for it.

 

[brightlove]

Gen III didn't really feel like a part of the "dark ages" for me. Although that may be due to me being born in '95 and pretty much still being a kid at the time. I went to kindergarten when Pokémania hit us, and my first Pokémon game was Crystal. I think the events you're describing might be a bit more applicable to kids that were at the time at least 2-3 years older than me, at least where I grew up. All of the boys in my class played RS and FRLG and the TCG was still very popular, to the point that our school banned bringing your cards due to several cases of kids stealing the cards from one another.
When Gen IV came around the pendulum had started to swing, we were still some friends playing and during DP we discovered Serebii and got into competitive which lead to a minor resurgence in interest half a year into its lifespan. Learning about IVs and EVs and such. In my friend group I think we were 4-6 people still playing the games at the time. I don't remember any other boys really caring, but a lot of girls would say stuff like you "You guys still play Pokémon, that's lame", but I don't consider that as particularly different from the remarks girls would say given any hobby that boys were interested in (if it isn't clear Pokémon was very much a "boy thing" at our school). Cannot say much about the TCG as none of my friends still kept collecting cards and I lost interest as well. The anime however had started to get a pretty bad reputation as a neverending kids' show, and I must say that I had pretty negative views on it as well, to some extent blaming it for the growing perception that Pokémon as a whole was for kids. I still don't really care for the anime.
HGSS-BW2 was probably when I felt that Pokémon was the least popular. I don't think any of my friends actually got BW at the EU release date besides me and I don't think any of them got BW2 at all besides me. It was pretty stigmatized to play in public but I preferred to play at home anyway, besides it wasn't specifically Pokémon but just playing on a DS in general in public. I remember it not being particularly fun to have to boot up my DS/3DS in GameStop for certain Mystery Gift events. I never hid that I still played the games, but it was definitely not something I would bring up in a conversation the first or second time I met someone new. It was one of those things that just didn't give a good first impression.
XY and on is hard to say. At that point, I was old enough that people really didn't care what you spent your free time on, so I don't know how it was perceived by younger children. Only one of my friends had gotten back into Pokémon so Pokémon didn't really come up much in casual conversation besides during the GO fad. However I don't remember "strangers" openly expressing things like "I'm going home to play Pokémon!" until around the time LGPE came around and the games became available on Switch.

Interesting to read