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Possible New Signature Z-Moves Discussion Thread

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Tuoko

Well-Known Member
Power Trip is not a true signature move.

Bulbapedia's classification is incorrect.

I looked it up, and you're right. Though in that case, Bruxish shouldn't be in the earlier list, since Carvanha and Lillipup can get Psychic Fangs via breeding.
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
I looked it up, and you're right. Though in that case, Bruxish shouldn't be in the earlier list, since Carvanha and Lillipup can get Psychic Fangs via breeding.

This is exactly right. Also, signature moves are tricky business. I mean, look at Octozooka. Only Octillery gets it through level-up, and its Japanese name even name checks Octillery (Okutank Cannon), so I don't think that Horsea getting it through breeding discounts it from being a signature move.
 

Tuoko

Well-Known Member
This is exactly right. Also, signature moves are tricky business. I mean, look at Octozooka. Only Octillery gets it through level-up, and its Japanese name even name checks Octillery (Okutank Cannon), so I don't think that Horsea getting it through breeding discounts it from being a signature move.

Yeah, and as time goes on, the newer signature moves will likely be spread onto newer (and older) Pokemon.

We already have some Z-Moves that aren't tied to signature moves, though, so there'll probably be more that do the same. Those Z-Moves being 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt & Stoked Sparksufer (Thunderbolt), Extreme Evoboost (Last Resort), Pulverizing Pancake (Giga Impact), and Genesis Supernova (Psychic).
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I've done some damage calculations. Looks like Clangorous Soulblaze has a base power of at least 160 or so with the spread damage, assuming no IVs/EVs on either side and neutral natures, that's what it takes to KO Garchomp, the bulkiest on that side. 170 base power for a guaranteed KO on Garchomp.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I've done some damage calculations. Looks like Clangorous Soulblaze has a base power of at least 160 or so with the spread damage, assuming no IVs/EVs on either side and neutral natures, that's what it takes to KO Garchomp, the bulkiest on that side. 170 base power for a guaranteed KO on Garchomp.

So plus 50 on Clanging Scales. Normal boost for z-moves based on moves in the hundreds
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
We already have some Z-Moves that aren't tied to signature moves, though, so there'll probably be more that do the same. Those Z-Moves being 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt & Stoked Sparksufer (Thunderbolt), Extreme Evoboost (Last Resort), Pulverizing Pancake (Giga Impact), and Genesis Supernova (Psychic).

I made that exact same point in another thread.

Also, on a related point, I think that, if Lycanroc gets a signature Z-Move, that it won't necessarily be linked to Accelrock, seeing as that would mean leaving out the already neglected Midnight Form (unless every form get a unique Z-Move).
 

Tuoko

Well-Known Member
I made that exact same point in another thread.

Also, on a related point, I think that, if Lycanroc gets a signature Z-Move, that it won't necessarily be linked to Accelrock, seeing as that would mean leaving out the already neglected Midnight Form (unless every form get a unique Z-Move).

Yeah, I noticed. As for your point on Lycanroc, I could see it being connected to both Counter and Accelrock, though it'd have two different animations depending on which move is used.
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
As for your point on Lycanroc, I could see it being connected to both Counter and Accelrock, though it'd have two different animations depending on which move is used.

I considered something like that, but a pure Rock-Type have a Fighting-Type Signature Z-Move seems a bit unlikely.
 

Tsukuyomi56

Sky High Knight
Based on the very first trailer we got the most likely Pokemon to get signature Z-Moves (other than Kommo-o) are Lycanroc, Togedemaru and Mimikyu. Don't know if the possible Z-Move for Lycanroc is for all three forms or only for the Midday form (possibly the Dusk form as well).
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I've been out of the competitive scene for a while but how is Kommo-o faring in the metagame? If it isn't doing so well, maybe its new Z-Move can help it more.

Oh yeah, Kommo-o definitely wasn't the best by a long shot, but this new z-move will definitely make him a killing machine
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I've been out of the competitive scene for a while but how is Kommo-o faring in the metagame? If it isn't doing so well, maybe its new Z-Move can help it more.

It's not the worst. Compared to other dragons it lacks in speed. Its attacking stats are good but not great and they're a bit unfocused. It lacks strong fighting STAB, its strongest physical one is Sky Uppercut which isn't too bad but it's a lot weaker than the Close Combat a lot of other fighting types get, and on the special side it only gets Focus Blast which suffers from horrible accuracy. It does get a lot of boosting moves in Work Up, Belly Drum, Bulk Up, Dragon Dance, Autotomise, Rock Polish, and Swords Dance, of which Dragon Dance is probably the most viable, although Salamence is probably a lot better at that with a much larger attack stat, easier boosting thanks to Intimidate, and better speed. Kommo-o is by no means a bad pokémon, but it suffers a bit from "Jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome. I think it'll probably gain a lot of viability with the new Z-Move and possibly move tutors. If Superpower gets distributed again I think Kommo-o will get it, and it might be one of the best users of it on a mixed set with Clanging Scales, Flamethrower, and Poison Jab.

Whether the new Z-Move will make it overpowered? I doubt it. It'd definitely make it a force to be reckoned with, but I'm not sure on overpowered. It's a Dragon move so fairy types are immune, and with the Tapus being so rampant as they are it might struggle to find an opening to actually use it, because if you use it while Tapu Fini switches in you've just wasted your only Z-Move for the battle.
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
It's not the worst. Compared to other dragons it lacks in speed. Its attacking stats are good but not great and they're a bit unfocused. It lacks strong fighting STAB, its strongest physical one is Sky Uppercut which isn't too bad but it's a lot weaker than the Close Combat a lot of other fighting types get, and on the special side it only gets Focus Blast which suffers from horrible accuracy. It does get a lot of boosting moves in Work Up, Belly Drum, Bulk Up, Dragon Dance, Autotomise, Rock Polish, and Swords Dance, of which Dragon Dance is probably the most viable, although Salamence is probably a lot better at that with a much larger attack stat, easier boosting thanks to Intimidate, and better speed. Kommo-o is by no means a bad pokémon, but it suffers a bit from "Jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome. I think it'll probably gain a lot of viability with the new Z-Move and possibly move tutors. If Superpower gets distributed again I think Kommo-o will get it, and it might be one of the best users of it on a mixed set with Clanging Scales, Flamethrower, and Poison Jab.

Whether the new Z-Move will make it overpowered? I doubt it. It'd definitely make it a force to be reckoned with, but I'm not sure on overpowered. It's a Dragon move so fairy types are immune, and with the Tapus being so rampant as they are it might struggle to find an opening to actually use it, because if you use it while Tapu Fini switches in you've just wasted your only Z-Move for the battle.

It's also not terribly fast, which I imagine will be its big achelis heel that prevents its z move from being op.
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
It's also not terribly fast, which I imagine will be its big achelis heel that prevents its z move from being op.

This is very true. There's a reason why it's most common set is Autotomize + 3 Moves.
 

Trainer Yusuf

VolcaniNO
Z-Clanging Scales is probably either 185 BP, which would be same as Devastating Drake with Clanging Scales which would be similar to Stoked Sparksurfer, 195 BP, which will be +10, similar to Pulverizing Pancake, or 205 BP, which will be+20, similar to Starter Z-moves.
 
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Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Z-Clanging Scales is probably either 185 BP, which would be same as Devastating Drake with Clanging Scales which would be similar to Stoked Sparksurfer, 195 BP, which will be +10, similar to Pulverizing Pancake, or 205 BP, which will be+20, similar to Starter Z-moves.

Stoked Sparksurfer is 175 BP, same as Gigavolt Havoc based on Thunderbolt, but it also paralyses. Devastating Drake based on Clanging Scales is 185 BP. My guess is that it'll be 175 or maybe 160. I can't see it go beyond 175, because it also has that stat boost.
 

Wryteous

Rogue Trainer
Stoked Sparksurfer is 175 BP, same as Gigavolt Havoc based on Thunderbolt, but it also paralyses. Devastating Drake based on Clanging Scales is 185 BP. My guess is that it'll be 175 or maybe 160. I can't see it go beyond 175, because it also has that stat boost.

If the Salamence and Garchomp shown had normal defenses and weren't 0IV dummies. Then it might have been 175.
 

Mrs. Oreo

Banned
I was fully expecting new Z-Moves in Ultra Sun and Moon, but I didn't think that Kommo-o would be one of the Pokemon who'd attain one. Still, Clangorous Soulblaze looked awesome in the trailer, so I'm interested in using it myself. :]
 
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