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Potential Serena special episode discussion

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Soniman

Break the Limit
It's just such an utterly negligible thing in the grand scheme of things, oh no Serena wasn't creative in dealing with the minor plot device characters that largely have nothing to do with her character, what a terrible thing.

Like who cares really? I don't even remember the "creative" TR encounters most if the time because their TR battles, which are always just filler to pad the episode out, always. Very rarely do they ever have dramatic or narrative weight to them so who cares if Serena dealt tm with them easily, I have no clue why you're so obsessed with this one incredibly minor thing
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I imagine since TR appears every episode they just can't be arsed to think of creative ways to beat them every time (which I kind of understand) so the solution is just to make TR weak enough that spamming attacks is enough to blast them off.

They could fix that by not having them interrupt every episode

I'm still under the theory that they spammed TR in XYZ specifically so Serena and Clemont had at least someone to look strong against and because having them beat up was easier than more intricate development (they tended to interrupt whenever a more complex climax would otherwise be needed or during a face-off where the twerps would realistically have to lose or at least struggle against, which apparently looks more weak than winning non-challenges).
 
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snorlax512

Well-Known Member
I'm still under the theory that they spammed TR in XYZ specifically so Serena and Clemont had at least someone to look strong against and because having them beat up was easier than more intricate development (they tended to interrupt whenever a more complex climax would otherwise be needed or during a face-off where the twerps would realistically have to lose or at least struggle against, which apparently looks more weak than winning non-challenges).

I agree they should have been developed better, but how would TR contribute to their development at all?
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
It's just such an utterly negligible thing in the grand scheme of things, oh no Serena wasn't creative in dealing with the minor plot device characters that largely have nothing to do with her character, what a terrible thing.

Like who cares really? I don't even remember the "creative" TR encounters most if the time because their TR battles, which are always just filler to pad the episode out, always. Very rarely do they ever have dramatic or narrative weight to them so who cares if Serena dealt tm with them easily, I have no clue why you're so obsessed with this one incredibly minor thing

They're the minor plot device characters that largely existed as the twerps' main opponent, which was the main problem for a lot of the pre-BW episodes. There was no need to go back to that problem, especially since XY touted itself as an action series more than any previous series. Hell it wasn't just a downgrade concerning TR, BW for all it's flaws tried harder to downplay the whole plot armour and easy victories for the twerps, they even called out fluke wins as shallow for once. XY was a complete remission of that, they didn't care how the heroes won so long as they did and superficially looked badass.

To go into this without it turning into a TR thread, Serena, even if a great character, was a lousy action protagonist, because even besides TR, she won everything easily or through cheap plot device. There is no emotional investment in a character that wins EVERYTHING without effort, especially since it's hard to display their defining positive talents in a situation any imbecile could win in. Look at the Flare arc, it was the big finale arc that was supposed to show everything the cast had learned and grown, etc. Serena barely had anything to do, they tried to tout her as being able to stick up for Maron but she was incompetent against even grunts and needed saving all the time herself, largely because she'd spent the whole series never improving in capability. Oh she was being nice and motherly and meant well, like she wasn't that at the start of the series. You say it doesn't matter, but why shouldn't it if 1. it's an action series and for all intents wants Serena to be an action protagonist and 2. they still wanted to overlook this error and give the idea she IS getting better (albeit badly) thus making the whole story look pretentious and badly written?

I agree they should have been developed better, but how would TR contribute to their development at all?

By using them more than just as plot devices and making their face-offs challenging enough that they developed from them?

Hell just downplay them for other challenges and rivals. It only sticks out because they would rarely have them deal with anything else. Even in the showcases, Jessie was by far Serena's most prominent opponent. It was lazy. They just wanted Serena to have a straw loser to make her look superficially better. The other Pokegirls had TR as well, but not JUST them, they got GENUINELY better.
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
I'm afraid for Lillie then if that's the case...

Lillie was established clearly as being unable to even touch a Pokemon. Nobody will expect her to battle anytime soon. Lana already helped blast off TR with Popplio's balloon. I suppose Mallow hasn't had that opportunity yet.



I think the crux of your arguments seems to be that XY wanted to avoid portraying Serena in a negative light, and that characterization affected everything else. That's where the "Sue" complaints originate.

The solution to that in a special? Have her get beaten easily during the battle round of a Contest, and afterwards, show her reflecting upon the loss and begin to work on being a better Contest battler.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
As said before it can be solved EASILY. She can even win a freaking contest if they just establish in any way, be it flashback or conversation, that she had LOST a previous one legitimately. Also make said win tasking and not effortless. Let her demonstrate skill and resilience.

In other words, give her a good display without making her invincible. I don't see why that's petty and over demanding. Surely that's what most fans would want in the special. For her to discover a new challenge and learn to overcome it.
 
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Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Agreed.

Especially since Contests are set up to where she can't win doing the same routine over and over again! :p

Ought be neat seeing how she deals with THAT XD

lol yeah, maybe she'll actually make use of Braixen's Psychic abilities this time
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
As said before it can be solved EASILY. She can even win a freaking contest if they just establish in any way, be it flashback or conversation, that she had LOST a previous one legitimately. Also make said win tasking and not effortless. Let her demonstrate skill and resilience.

In other words, give her a good display without making her invincible. I don't see why that's petty and over demanding. Surely that's what most fans would want in the special. For her to discover a new challenge and learn to overcome it.

Yea that is exactly what I want the special to be about
 

Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
As said before it can be solved EASILY. She can even win a freaking contest if they just establish in any way, be it flashback or conversation, that she had LOST a previous one legitimately. Also make said win tasking and not effortless. Let her demonstrate skill and resilience.

In other words, give her a good display without making her invincible. I don't see why that's petty and over demanding. Surely that's what most fans would want in the special. For her to discover a new challenge and learn to overcome it.
That's absolutely fine.

All I've been trying to say is that it's not really naive to think that Serena would actually fair well in a Contest. She should obviously breeze through the appeals round, being the 2nd best Peformer in Kalos. As for the battle portion, people have to remember that she's not some new Trainer starting out. Serena may be a rookie to Contests and may have little battle experience, but like I've already said, there's the Ash factor, the fact that she does have 3 Pokemon with whom she has established relationships with (they already know how to work well together), and her resolve. I'm not saying she should automatically win or be flawless, but she shouldn't get wrecked either like people would want to assume.
 

JCW18

Go, Explotaro!
Seriously, why is it that when Serena is even remotely mentioned, people whine about her never being a big battler?

Quite frankly she never had a REASON to learn to battle. Performances never required them in any way, she never participated in a battling tournament.... She just needed to know enough to defend herself from Team Rocket/Flare. And it worked.

Besides, contest battles are much different from ordinary battles, as Ash has found out many times...
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
On the one hand Gen 6 didn't have a previous companion come back. On the other hand all other generations did, and Serena was the only companion to admit her love to Ash. So yeah, I feel she's probably returning, especially since the 20th anniversary of the anime is around the corner
 

DS0308

<--- Actually me
Seriously, why is it that when Serena is even remotely mentioned, people whine about her never being a big battler?

Quite frankly she never had a REASON to learn to battle. Performances never required them in any way, she never participated in a battling tournament.... She just needed to know enough to defend herself from Team Rocket/Flare. And it worked.

Besides, contest battles are much different from ordinary battles, as Ash has found out many times...

I feel like this is a point forgotten too often.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Another possibility is that she meets Prof Birch doing field work and he gets chased by his wife and Serena picks out a Pokeball and sends Mudkip to water her down with Water Gun.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Seriously, why is it that when Serena is even remotely mentioned, people whine about her never being a big battler?

Because again, they kept making her battle and ALWAYS win effortlessly (or at least be in a situation she never had to lose or take hits), which was unrealistic and got boring and contrived after a while considering she was meant to be an action protagonist and yet was constantly causing anti-climaxes. It was just another element that felt glorified about her, if they didn't want to be such they shouldn't have made her battle so damn often, or at least had her lose or struggle odd times for demonstration of this lacking element. There were other ways they could have had her contribute like they did with Clemont but no, they wanted Serena to be Ash's battle partner and look superficially badass.

Quite frankly she never had a REASON to learn to battle. Performances never required them in any way, she never participated in a battling tournament.... She just needed to know enough to defend herself from Team Rocket/Flare. And it worked.

Well it didn't really for Flare. That's why so many say her role in the arc sucked. And she only got better against Team Rocket at face value because they succumbed to villain decay. Beforehand even Meowth could see her strategy coming a mile away. Serena never really got better, just the circumstances around her did, and whenever that wasn't the case she was back to cowering and having no idea what to do until the plot pulled some deus ex machina. In other words, constant plot armour, which becomes infuriating.

People say battling wasn't supposed to be her thing but it kept getting forced down our throats and in the most awkward of fashions.
 
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Mrs. Oreo

Banned
As said before it can be solved EASILY. She can even win a freaking contest if they just establish in any way, be it flashback or conversation, that she had LOST a previous one legitimately.

If she gets a special episode where she's shown winning a contest in Hoenn, I wouldn't even be bothered by her win cuz she's won showcases and those don't seem that much harder than contests to me. Serena progressing would be a good thing any ways. :]
 

Wednesdayz

Meowth fanatic
If she gets a special episode where she's shown winning a contest in Hoenn, I wouldn't even be bothered by her win cuz she's won showcases and those don't seem that much harder than contests to me.

Except that unlike Pokemon Showcases, Pokemon Contests involve battles, which aren't exactly Serena's forte.
 

Mrs. Oreo

Banned
Except that unlike Pokemon Showcases, Pokemon Contests involve battles, which aren't exactly Serena's forte.

Well she might not have been the best battler in the X&Y cast, but I think she could still do well in a Hoenn contest based on her experience with performing, which could give her an edge during contest appeals. ^^
 
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