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Pride discourse.

So, a little while back twitter made me pretty upset, like it usually does. The discussion being had was whether or not expressions of adult sexuality and kink were appropriate during pride fest. There was this weird alliance between people on the right and younger leftist types who were all agreeing that these kinds of expressions were not okay, and that they were damaging to children, and that pride fest needs to be dialed down a notch to make it more kid friendly.

I don't know how the discussion started, but a lot of people were freaking out over this photo of a little girl standing next to some dudes in puppy play gear, and it was being used as an example of those sexually deviant queers going one step too far or whatever.

Honestly, I find it hard to have the conversation without getting upset. Look, I want to make something perfectly clear and make sure you don't misunderstand me - there's no evidence that expressions of adult sexuality harm children unless it's specifically directed toward them. A child that sees someone dressed up in puppy play outfit or bondage gear isn't going to know it's for. If your kid is old enough to understand adult sexuality and they ask you about it, all you have to say is "it's a sex thing" and then you move on.

Adult sexuality is everywhere already, I wasn't traumatized as a kid because I saw naked women on beach towels or walking through Spencer's. What's harmful is when kids are explicitly targeted, i.e some leather daddy asks a 12 year old boy to spank him or something. But people are acting like their very existence is damaging to young minds and I find that ****ing offensive. The only reason why expressions of kink would be harmful to your children is if you raised them with a puritan, unhealthy concept of sex/sexuality. For comparison, in Germany you can find magazines of naked people out in the open in the gas station. I can't stress enough how my opposition's perspective is being molded by the backdrop of protestant culture.


As for the argument that "You can keep the sexy/kinky **** but only at after parties or on the side or out of the way" pride fest didn't start as a family friendly event tailored to children. It started as a riot. The kinksters dressed up as cops and firemen were there first. You're moving into a space that was never about you (although most pride fests do have family friendly events) and demanding older, elder queers move out of the way. It's wrong. I understand that young queers should have spaces too, but like I said, there are already spaces at pride for them, it's just not the main event. And don't raise your children with puritan views of sexuality, and everything is fine.

The fact that so many so called "leftists" were willing to get in bed with reactionary conservatives and push the trope that queers were predatory pedophiles honestly disgusts me. I can't describe what it's like to see online voices you thought were allies push that, or just be too cowardly to say anything at all.

tl;dr

to hell with your stupid kids. **** off and leave pride alone
 
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Peter Quill

star-lord
At the end of the day people need to realize that, like it or not, a large differentiator (if not the largest) of LGBT people to their heterosexual counterparts is sex. For ages heterosexual people thought of LGBT peoples as sexual deviants. They couldn't conceptualize that two men or two women can have an authentic relationship with each other that isn't solely based on sex. Yeah, gay people have sex, weird kinky sex sometimes but it's a part of who we are and it's not going away any time soon.

I think Gen Z doesn't have an appropriate reference point to understand the persecution that LGBT have suffered in the past. The most obnoxious part is that people act like pride is the Folsom festival or something lmao. Come on you're going to see some people in leather for like 10-15 mins top during the parade and the rest is all corporate floats/allies just walking.

I don't engage with pride discourse on twitter because I keep my twitter handle private but I've definitely seen some absolutely braindead takes over the past month so I commiserate with you.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
At the end of the day people need to realize that, like it or not, a large differentiator (if not the largest) of LGBT people to their heterosexual counterparts is sex. For ages heterosexual people thought of LGBT peoples as sexual deviants. They couldn't conceptualize that two men or two women can have an authentic relationship with each other that isn't solely based on sex. Yeah, gay people have sex, weird kinky sex sometimes but it's a part of who we are and it's not going away any time soon.

I think Gen Z doesn't have an appropriate reference point to understand the persecution that LGBT have suffered in the past. The most obnoxious part is that people act like pride is the Folsom festival or something lmao. Come on you're going to see some people in leather for like 10-15 mins top during the parade and the rest is all corporate floats/allies just walking.

I don't engage with pride discourse on twitter because I keep my twitter handle private but I've definitely seen some absolutely braindead takes over the past month so I commiserate with you.
They seem to want to be more akin to a church service or vanilla political rally, i.e. mourning/remembering victims and celebrating pushback against hate. Which sounds like church to me.

"Pride should aspire to something higher than kink and sex" being a common echo among that crowd...while suggesting something akin to a sad and boring, then galvanizing in the wrong way memorial service-political campaign event hybrid, aka co-opting pride into a potential fundraising event.

I REALLY think people have been too conditioned to live election to election by 2016, as all some people talk about is 2022 and 2024 & election after election, with it sucking all happiness and joy out of their lives and minds.

Pride becoming a political campaign event is a stupid symptom of this. Watch it when a ton of candidates get rid of the horny to get people to fund their bids for power, then dumping the queer people they used immediately after gaining a taste of power.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
At the end of the day people need to realize that, like it or not, a large differentiator (if not the largest) of LGBT people to their heterosexual counterparts is sex. For ages heterosexual people thought of LGBT peoples as sexual deviants. They couldn't conceptualize that two men or two women can have an authentic relationship with each other that isn't solely based on sex. Yeah, gay people have sex, weird kinky sex sometimes but it's a part of who we are and it's not going away any time soon.

I think Gen Z doesn't have an appropriate reference point to understand the persecution that LGBT have suffered in the past. The most obnoxious part is that people act like pride is the Folsom festival or something lmao. Come on you're going to see some people in leather for like 10-15 mins top during the parade and the rest is all corporate floats/allies just walking.

I don't engage with pride discourse on twitter because I keep my twitter handle private but I've definitely seen some absolutely braindead takes over the past month so I commiserate with you.
I think it shouldn't be public though (as the bi sexually here hate when peoples wanna show it to kids under 18 years)
 
What do you think happens to kids when they see leather outfits or dog costumes? I mean, the burden of proof is on people arguing its inherently immoral/damaging in some way. Like, okay, damaging how? Are they traumatized by it? Do they become pre maturely promiscuous? What?

Anti kink at pride people never give a specific answer because they don't have one. They think it's good enough to just say "But the children" and that's it.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
What do you think happens to kids when they see leather outfits or dog costumes? (like the Furry ?) I mean, the burden of proof is on people arguing its inherently immoral/damaging in some way. Like, okay, damaging how? Are they traumatized by it? Do they become pre maturely promiscuous? What?

Anti kink at pride people never give a specific answer because they don't have one. They think it's good enough to just say "But the children" and that's it.
No as i think as reasonable bi-sexual adult male it is just lead to a issue of kids under age may tried have a sex or not really understand what is fit in adults's "private" time and i think as reasonably practicable for school tread that carefully in theirs sex ed lesson as i was partly awareness of some churchgoers families might be offended by such act handle wrong which it is huge problem for the kids in my generation during middle of 2000s
 
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Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
As a straight person, I want to make it clear that I don't know everything and I could be wrong with aspects of what I'm about to say.

But as long as you don't have a penis cosplayer (a graphic penis, not just some weird blob that vaguely looks like one), then I don't see the harm in specifically bringing the kids along. If it does have that type of stuff, then kids probably shouldn't attend.

But heck, I remember eyeing the O'Reilly show (I know, but this when I was younger and I was watching it with a grandparent), they had a segment about a Gay Day and a Kids Day occuring concurrently at a baseball game. There was nothing remotely sexual from what I remembered, but people talked about how unhealthy it is for the kids and BS like that.

Also, don't dress for a Nazi fetish. Now I should also mention that the penis and Nazi examples (and now I'm wondering how I am even typing this as a sentence) are merely conjecture on my behalf. I'm not trying to imply that LGBT people are obsessed with penises or would allow Nazi kinks.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
As a straight person, I want to make it clear that I don't know everything and I could be wrong with aspects of what I'm about to say.

But as long as you don't have a penis cosplayer (a graphic penis, not just some weird blob that vaguely looks like one), then I don't see the harm in specifically bringing the kids along. If it does have that type of stuff, then kids probably shouldn't attend.

But heck, I remember eyeing the O'Reilly show (I know, but this when I was younger and I was watching it with a grandparent), they had a segment about a Gay Day and a Kids Day occuring concurrently at a baseball game. There was nothing remotely sexual from what I remembered, but people talked about how unhealthy it is for the kids and BS like that.

Also, don't dress for a Nazi fetish. Now I should also mention that the penis and Nazi examples (and now I'm wondering how I am even typing this as a sentence) are merely conjecture on my behalf. I'm not trying to imply that LGBT people are obsessed with penises or would allow Nazi kinks.
No you not wrong with think as reasonable about the whole situation about "sexualized pride" problem
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
I just thinking of the most egregious scenarios, which are likely imaginary ones.

I don't think someone dressing in a fursuit is necessarily inappropriate.
As the furry guy it still a issue among today's world ....ironic eh ?
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Learning about Pride I always thought part of it was challenging someone's comfort zone in a way, where you would question why you might thing something is bad or unacceptable. To the point where the criticism I've heard is companies like Raytheon and Bank of America putting a lot of money into Pride, because then it is a corporate funded event.

There is a type of person though who wants to be considered "in the middle" or moderate, and that's because they want to be seen as the reasonable one, but instead of a genuine belief it's more of a "Well both sides have issues, so I'll agree with a little of each". Conservatives can use this because it turns into "Well it's okay to be LGBT, but they can tone it down right?" and a part of that group will go "Yeah, they need to meet them in the middle a little" when it's mostly an act to push more on anti-LGBT legislation.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
When hetero men have kinks or men fetishize lesbians, it's "acceptable"(always especially around other presumed cishet(which is a relatedc bit of toxicity) boys).

When anyone else has it? "Keep it from the kids, lest they go to hell/not be hetero/be affected/question my/our ways and authorities"

Anti-kink, anti-sexuality, and fetishization of queer people for heterosexual arousal are positions designed to maintain the status quo in favor of the churches, the cishetneurotypicals, and unjust governments. To take away the former 2 and secretly but hypocritically keep the latter(Which is what is actually done in bigot communities) is a key facet of fascism, and it is the begenning of proto-cryptofascism for anyone who sees sex and cringes without being sex-repulsed, asexual or aromantic

Hence, kink at pride is not only true to the intent of Stonewall's antifascist leanings, but is a cornerstone of encouraging standing up to bigots, religious tyrants, and fascism, when you realize that any concern for a child touching a pup play mask is because you think that the pup will ask the child to touch their genitals, and thus are bigoted because you're rleying on the whole "kink at pride cannot gain universal consent, thus kink becomes rape and pedophilia by proxy...neglecting to consider that people can check and curtail arousal levels around kids, nor providing a mutually acceptable and still unbigoted solution.

Always with the queer pedophile panic as the default.

Usually American, Australian, British or a naturalized citizen of the UK(Basically wherever Rupert Murdoch has his wrinkly mitts in sources od discourse), and white.

Mostly used to be bible-thumpers.

Now aided and abetted by people who think they're pure of bigotry because they're supposedly sex-positive and vote left...despite those not being the same things AT ALL.

I hate to call out somebody in the community...

But YouTuber/Twitch Streamer DuncanCantDie and his wife/Editor MissBeryl have fallen into this trap, according to a public Twitter conversation shared to be by mutuals on Facebook.

So yes.

Removing Kink at pride is bigoted and selfish, and it isn't inherently rape, sexual assault and/or pedophilia, picture or not, because even a pup player can control themselves to the point where these people think it might go.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Learning about Pride I always thought part of it was challenging someone's comfort zone in a way, where you would question why you might thing something is bad or unacceptable. To the point where the criticism I've heard is companies like Raytheon and Bank of America putting a lot of money into Pride, because then it is a corporate funded event.

There is a type of person though who wants to be considered "in the middle" or moderate, and that's because they want to be seen as the reasonable one, but instead of a genuine belief it's more of a "Well both sides have issues, so I'll agree with a little of each". Conservatives can use this because it turns into "Well it's okay to be LGBT, but they can tone it down right?" and a part of that group will go "Yeah, they need to meet them in the middle a little" when it's mostly an act to push more on anti-LGBT legislation.
Problem is you might demand almost all conservative or moderate lefties do following your way of thinking and it is likely breakpoints of them and easier for Far-Right or Anit-Lgbt Far-leftes push that bill that you are so concerning about.
Hope you are understand what i try saying right ?
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
I do ask that LGBT people have equal rights yes, I'm not all that concerned if someone doesn't want them to.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
I do ask that LGBT people have equal rights yes, I'm not all that concerned if someone doesn't want them to.
Okay as long you don't push the wrong button...or otherwise we all so screwed in next 10 damn years from now
 
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Durrendal

Well-Known Member
Sounds like people want easy access to kids, like Alok Ved Menon. (Not attacking OP, I meant the arguments in this vein sounds like that).

I'm also against the kiddy diddling Churches do. And kids should be removed from there as well.

I don't trust parents. Church parents have swept abuse of their own children under rugs to protect their belief structure. Parents putting kids in pride parades would do the same to protect their belief structure. Sacrifices to the cause, so to speak.

Pride isn't a family friendly event and shouldn't be. The whole 'exhibition' disgusts me, but I understand it's not for me and my disgust shouldn't matter. Kids should be kept away from their straight parents' leather bondage sex dungeons. Kids should be kept away from people in bondage gear, phalluses hanging all over them parading beside them.

Little girls(and boys) should not be considered "kinky" and never "should be sexualised". Putting kids in such spaces has given people like Menon the gall to say such disgusting, despicable things.

Inb4 called a mashup of terms: not American. Not Christian. Not white.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Sounds like people want easy access to kids, like Alok Ved Menon. (Not attacking OP, I meant the arguments in this vein sounds like that).

I'm also against the kiddy diddling Churches do. And kids should be removed from there as well.

I don't trust parents. Church parents have swept abuse of their own children under rugs to protect their belief structure. Parents putting kids in pride parades would do the same to protect their belief structure. Sacrifices to the cause, so to speak.

Pride isn't a family friendly event and shouldn't be. The whole 'exhibition' disgusts me, but I understand it's not for me and my disgust shouldn't matter. Kids should be kept away from their straight parents' leather bondage sex dungeons. Kids should be kept away from people in bondage gear, phalluses hanging all over them parading beside them.

Little girls(and boys) should not be considered "kinky" and never "should be sexualised". Putting kids in such spaces has given people like Menon the gall to say such disgusting, despicable things.

Inb4 called a mashup of terms: not American. Not Christian. Not white.
I do agree with you on some of thing but you might put Jewish and Arab community with Christians
 

Durrendal

Well-Known Member
I do agree with you on some of thing but you might put Jewish and Arab community with Christians
I put Christian specifically because it was mentioned in previous posts but it's a placeholder for any religious structure that has covered up child exploitation.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
I put Christian specifically because it was mentioned in previous posts but it's a placeholder for any religious structure that has covered up child exploitation.
I see, problem is lot of it comes from tribalism (my dad beat your dad mindset)
 
Sounds like people want easy access to kids, like Alok Ved Menon. (Not attacking OP, I meant the arguments in this vein sounds like that).

I'm also against the kiddy diddling Churches do. And kids should be removed from there as well.

I don't trust parents. Church parents have swept abuse of their own children under rugs to protect their belief structure. Parents putting kids in pride parades would do the same to protect their belief structure. Sacrifices to the cause, so to speak.

Pride isn't a family friendly event and shouldn't be. The whole 'exhibition' disgusts me, but I understand it's not for me and my disgust shouldn't matter. Kids should be kept away from their straight parents' leather bondage sex dungeons. Kids should be kept away from people in bondage gear, phalluses hanging all over them parading beside them.

Little girls(and boys) should not be considered "kinky" and never "should be sexualised". Putting kids in such spaces has given people like Menon the gall to say such disgusting, despicable things.

Inb4 called a mashup of terms: not American. Not Christian. Not white.

In regards to the bolded bit, is that what you believe happens at pride? That there's an underground network of secret sexual abuse on par with what takes place with the Catholic church or whatever? I'm very confused.

I agree kids shouldn't be sexualized, but being in the same space as someone in bondage gear or something doesn't sexualize them. It's okay if you're more conservative and you don't kids to be around that kind of thing, but there's precious little to go on that suggests its harmful. Plus, all that's really happening at pride is that your kid is seeing these people exist. That doesn't really harm them.

It's not like you're leaving your kid with a troop of leather daddies all day and coming back to pick them at night lmao. Like yeah Billie was good all day, first we colored spider man coloring books and then we taught him the proper use of anal beads. That just isn't what happens. You're literally just seeing these people in passing and that's it
 
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