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Pride discourse.

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
What is the point you're trying to make?
That people can control their horny enough not to harm kids, therefore the whole "no kink at pride" debate's kids angle is moot.

And that porn is unrealistic, so it warps expectations.

Public kink is not porn.

Therefore watch your damn kids instead of demanding your local queer people do it while you get drunk.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
That people can control their horny enough not to harm kids, therefore the whole "no kink at pride" debate's kids angle is moot.

And that porn is unrealistic, so it warps expectations.

Public kink is not porn.

Therefore watch your damn kids instead of demanding your local queer people do it while you get drunk.
Isn't there a problem with telling people to control their horniness?
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
Isn't there a problem with telling people to control their horniness?
Nice try.

I'm talking about in-the-moment kink-based arousal in public, not queer feelings entirely or the right to exist, form relations, get married, have/adopt and raise kids and live their lives.

You can dress for pride as you want, celebrate pride in reverence, sadness, celebration or horny...but you kill that outward horny sign when kids are nearby.

I've had erections when I shouldn't have due to my SO being good to me or a sexy guy coming around, and had to kill it because there are children or sex-repulsed people around.

When a kid starts to approach you while you are in kink gear, you kill any outward arousal to not worry the parent.

You still wear the gear, but you're legally not a "threat" to the parent('s kid).

As soon as the kid(s) and the parent(s) is gone, get it up again.

it's that simple.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Nice try.

I'm talking about in-the-moment kink-based arousal in public, not queer feelings entirely or the right to exist, form relations, get married, have/adopt and raise kids and live their lives.

You can dress for pride as you want, celebrate pride in reverence, sadness, celebration or horny...but you kill that outward horny sign when kids are nearby.

I've had erections when I shouldn't have due to my SO being good to me or a sexy guy coming around, and had to kill it because there are children or sex-repulsed people around.

When a kid starts to approach you while you are in kink gear, you kill any outward arousal to not worry the parent.

You still wear the gear, but you're legally not a "threat" to the parent('s kid).

As soon as the kid(s) and the parent(s) is gone, get it up again.

it's that simple.
I wasn't referring to erections. You've made things weird.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
I wasn't referring to erections. You've made things weird.
YOU were looking for a gotcha where there isn't one.

I was clarifying my position.

Visible arousal, be it male or female, scares people during pride, and sets off alarm bells.

What most people don't realize is that that is controllable.
 

Bill the Typhlosion

Well-Known Member
I don't think there's any harm in being a little bit sexy at Pride, within reason. Kids are exposed to stuff like that in mainstream media all the time - in music videos, for example.

However, I do feel - and I'm sorry if this offends anybody - that there is no place for kink at Pride. Not because of the kids (although that's a valid point too), but because it gives people a false perception of the LGBTQ+ community. If I were taking part in a Pride march and some people behind me were all decked out in leather gear, it would make me really uncomfortable. I wouldn't want passers by to assume that I'm into that too, or that all LGBTQ+ people are.

There's nothing wrong with kink, as long as it's consensual and doesn't harm anyone. Anyone who finds that it enriches their life should embrace it and be proud of their sexual identity. I don't really understand what kink has to do with the LGBTQ+ community though, not when it's something that is, to my knowledge, equally popular with straight people.
 
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Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
YOU were looking for a gotcha where there isn't one.

I was clarifying my position.

Visible arousal, be it male or female, scares people during pride, and sets off alarm bells.

What most people don't realize is that that is controllable.
I was referring to bondage gear as horniness.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
The association with gay/queer people and sex is something straight people will never understand, because they've never been stripped of, berated for, or denied their sexuality.

As a queer man myself, I spent so many years hiding my sexuality, that the moment I came out I went crazy. When you hold in part of who you are long enough, it eventually explodes, and all you can think about is the desperate desire to have what you've been denied for so long. I've learned not to judge other queer people for their promiscuity or grand sexual expression, because I understand why.

I am happy that most of Gen Z won't have to worry about this, as the western world is far more accepting for queer people now than they were 20 years ago. However, their good fortune prevents them from fully understanding the reason queer culture is so sexualized. As for the Pride Parade, the festivals are far more explicit than the parade itself, so the argument that the parade needs to be toned down is unfounded. The festivals, however, were never meant for children, so they shouldn't even be there to begin with.
 

The Admiral

the star of the masquerade
Wow, I thought Pyrrhonism went out of fashion about 2250 years ago...
but because it gives people a false perception of the LGBTQ+ community.
Don't gotta worry about that being the thing that causes problems, my guy. I'm pretty sure sure even people who aren't exposed to that who hate the queer community will BS whatever they need to to make them look like weird deviants.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
The problem comes with treating things as a left/right straight line where it’s more self-label than anything else, since people more often than not tend to fit all over the place with their views, which often contradict each other.

If someone says they’re conservative but openly celebrates pride seeing nothing wrong with it, are they really conservative, and if someone says they’re a leftist but is worried about pedophiles getting kids at LGBT rallies, are they really leftist?

You kind of have to take what they say in a direct situation, and match it with their actions in that moment.

Granted with LGBT rights I never got what the moderate stance is with it, considering you’re either for them or not.
That is whole point of "change my mind" debate to have right wings learned that lgbt is not theirs foe ?
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I don't think there's any harm in being a little bit sexy at Pride, within reason. Kids are exposed to stuff like that in mainstream media all the time - in music videos, for example.

However, I do feel - and I'm sorry if this offends anybody - that there is no place for kink at Pride. Not because of the kids (although that's a valid point too), but because it gives people a false perception of the LGBTQ+ community. If I were taking part in a Pride march and some people behind me were all decked out in leather gear, it would make me really uncomfortable. I wouldn't want passers by to assume that I'm into that too, or that all LGBTQ+ people are.

There's nothing wrong with kink, as long as it's consensual and doesn't harm anyone. Anyone who finds that it enriches their life should embrace it and be proud of their sexual identity. I don't really understand what kink has to do with the LGBTQ+ community though, not when it's something that is, to my knowledge, equally popular with straight people.
I think you're kind of missing the point of pride then. It is about diversity and accepting that diversity. People have different tastes, different identities, different interests. That applies to a lot of things in life, food, music, clothing, shows, humour, and also sexual attraction. And the point is that people shouldn't be excluded, attacked, discriminated against, etc just for being different from the mainstream as long as those differences don't harm anybody. LGBTQ+ people have been attacked, discriminated against, excluded from communities, and executed over the course of history just for being who they are, because some other folks "feel uncomfortable" around them. And by wanting to exclude kink from pride just because of your own "feeling uncomfortable", you're doing essentially the same. If you feel uncomfortable around them, that's your issue to deal with. You don't have to date them, you don't have to be friends with them, you don't have to join them, you just don't get to discriminate against them, scold them, attack them, or ban them from public events just because of your feelings.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
However, I do feel - and I'm sorry if this offends anybody - that there is no place for kink at Pride. Not because of the kids (although that's a valid point too), but because it gives people a false perception of the LGBTQ+ community. If I were taking part in a Pride march and some people behind me were all decked out in leather gear, it would make me really uncomfortable. I wouldn't want passers by to assume that I'm into that too, or that all LGBTQ+ people are.

Kink is a valid part of the LGBTQ+ community, and it seems the only reason you feel otherwise is because of your own personal views toward it, which is ultimately the antithesis of Pride, and the very essence of discrimination: "I don't like it, so you can't do it."

If people are simply standing behind you at an event and the way they are dressed is bothering you, the problem isn't theirs, mate. It's your. You have to be the one to leave. A person's choice of attire is no one's concern but their own, especially at an event meant to be inclusive of all peoples. The only exception would be attire with imagery explicitly expressing hate or violence towards others, which kink attire does not do.

Your worry that passersby would assume you're also into kink affirms this is a personal issue. That's fine; by all means take of it, but don't make it someone else's issue. Queer people get enough that as it is.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
I do wonder how much of that could be the more “color blind” anti-racism and discrimination campaigns in the 90’s. They would push to not treat people bad based on things they were born with and cannot change, but didn’t get much into more cultural or interest differences, and in a few ways wanted to be more quiet about it than anything else and not have to talk about differences that might make people in the majority feel out of place simply because it is different.

Especially since the 90’s does feel to age more and more with LGBT depictions.
 

Teravolt

cilan lives forever in my heart
Putting my two cents here:


Note: I prefer the term “sexually explorative” over “kink” or “kinky”. I don’t know why.

So, overall, I don’t care what people are into sexually. I understand the overlap between LGBTQ+ pride and sexually explorative pride, and why the latter is seen at LGBTQ+ events. Both have to do with sex.

I do think that the “for the children” argument has at least a tiny amount of validity. When I was a kid, I was (unintentionally) exposed to stuff on the internet. It was traumatizing. So I understand the concern that certain sexual things at pride events would have a negative impact on kids. However, I don’t think the people into sexually explorative stuff would be having sex with each other or discussing it with the kids. I suppose that a parent taking a kid to a pride event with some sexually explorative content would go to another area of the event, where the explorative content wouldn’t be visible.

Even so, I agree with the statement that trying to put tons of regulations on pride events comes down to people not liking the LGBTQ+ community.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
Putting my two cents here:


Note: I prefer the term “sexually explorative” over “kink” or “kinky”. I don’t know why.

So, overall, I don’t care what people are into sexually. I understand the overlap between LGBTQ+ pride and sexually explorative pride, and why the latter is seen at LGBTQ+ events. Both have to do with sex.

I do think that the “for the children” argument has at least a tiny amount of validity. When I was a kid, I was (unintentionally) exposed to stuff on the internet. It was traumatizing. So I understand the concern that certain sexual things at pride events would have a negative impact on kids. However, I don’t think the people into sexually explorative stuff would be having sex with each other or discussing it with the kids. I suppose that a parent taking a kid to a pride event with some sexually explorative content would go to another area of the event, where the explorative content wouldn’t be visible.

Even so, I agree with the statement that trying to put tons of regulations on pride events comes down to people not liking the LGBTQ+ community.
The whole thing is an excuse for lazy parents to not parent or share, mixed with right-tainted politics, wannabe exercising of wrath upon Sodom and Gomorrah in the name of a person they fail to acknowlege as a brown antifa Jew (and whose lore may based off of Bacchus, depending on your drift) and his Jupiter-Yahweh Angry Sky Daddy, and/or unwanted proselytizing/soul-saving shite.

Most adults would fail Pre-K.
 

Bill the Typhlosion

Well-Known Member
Don't gotta worry about that being the thing that causes problems, my guy. I'm pretty sure sure even people who aren't exposed to that who hate the queer community will BS whatever they need to to make them look like weird deviants.

Intolerant people will, indeed, find excuses to attack the LGBTQ+ community whatever you do. But I'm thinking more about the people who are on the fence, who have the potential to become tolerant. The presence of kink and sexually deviant behaviour at Pride isn't going to help to win those people over. It'll just make them confused about what being LGBTQ+ means.

I think you're kind of missing the point of pride then. It is about diversity and accepting that diversity. People have different tastes, different identities, different interests. That applies to a lot of things in life, food, music, clothing, shows, humour, and also sexual attraction. And the point is that people shouldn't be excluded, attacked, discriminated against, etc just for being different from the mainstream as long as those differences don't harm anybody. LGBTQ+ people have been attacked, discriminated against, excluded from communities, and executed over the course of history just for being who they are, because some other folks "feel uncomfortable" around them. And by wanting to exclude kink from pride just because of your own "feeling uncomfortable", you're doing essentially the same. If you feel uncomfortable around them, that's your issue to deal with. You don't have to date them, you don't have to be friends with them, you don't have to join them, you just don't get to discriminate against them, scold them, attack them, or ban them from public events just because of your feelings.
Kink is a valid part of the LGBTQ+ community, and it seems the only reason you feel otherwise is because of your own personal views toward it, which is ultimately the antithesis of Pride, and the very essence of discrimination: "I don't like it, so you can't do it."

If people are simply standing behind you at an event and the way they are dressed is bothering you, the problem isn't theirs, mate. It's your. You have to be the one to leave. A person's choice of attire is no one's concern but their own, especially at an event meant to be inclusive of all peoples. The only exception would be attire with imagery explicitly expressing hate or violence towards others, which kink attire does not do.

Your worry that passersby would assume you're also into kink affirms this is a personal issue. That's fine; by all means take of it, but don't make it someone else's issue. Queer people get enough that as it is.

I accept all forms of diversity, including kink, but Pride is specifically about celebrating LGBTQ+ people. It's really important that every minority group is allowed to have its own dedicated space, so that its voice can be heard. You don't have to focus on everybody all of the time in order to accept them.

Take the Black Lives Matter movement, for example. Its message isn't that non-black lives don't matter, just that it's important to give black people a voice. If non-black people started turning up to Black Lives Matter events demanding that they be given a voice too, black people would then be denied their voice.

It's the same with the LGBTQ+ and kink communities. They're two separate communities, each equally deserving of having their voices heard. LGBTQ+ lives matter, and that's what Pride is about, but that doesn't mean kink lives don't matter. By all means organise a Kink Pride event and give a voice to those people, but please don't piggyback on LGBTQ+ Pride and take away my voice.
 
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bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Most experts consider it the rise of internet porn and now easy it is to access, along with a large amount of those in power pushing for a ban that isn’t really feasible without properly educating kids about sex that’s the root issue.
 
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