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Professor Oak's grandson is not that bad a person.

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WaterTypeStarter

Well-Known Member
Many in the fandom tend to think of the rival in gen 1 and FRLG as a bully and a jerk. However, he really does not do anything that bad. He comes across as arrogant but really all he does is challenge the player to battles and act cocky. The closest you could argue is that he does not help you beat Team Rocket at Silph co, but the action is more selfish than villainous. Even telling his sister not to give you a map really is more underhanded than actually bad. The rest of time he just suddenly runs into the player, brags about how he is better than the player then makes an excuse after losing. Even in adaptations he is rarely depicted as being antagonistic. In the anime, his counterpart Gary is a jerk but really does not do anything antagonistic. And according to TV Tropes, the 4Kids dub actually makes him more a jerk to Ash than in the original where he is really a friendly rival, though not sure if this is true. In the Adventures manga I think he grows out of his jerk personality quite fast. And in Origins, he is only really a bully during his first battle with Red (and by the way Red later has no qualms beating up Mewtwo even more brutally just so he can catch it, so really the part where Charmander is being bitten is not that bad by the standards of the show as people make it out to be). After that, he really does not do much that is bad. He tries to get glory for himself in the Lavender Town episode but ends up pretty much comically. And he never really does anything particularly antagonistic. The closest you can say is in the Zensho manga where he knocks Red off his Pokemon while flying, though you can argue he is not meaning it as antagonistic and is just being rough. To conclude, the rival in gen 1 is a jerk but he is not the evil bully that so many people make him out to be. Even in adaptations he is not really bad at all. I may not have written this post well since I am a little tired and not sure what to say but I wanted to post my thought so what is your opinion?
 
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Leonhart

Imagineer
I've never seen anyone claim that the rival in R/G/B/Y was an antagonist or anything quite so bold. He was overtly rude, though. His character was redeemed slightly in the remakes from Gen III and in G/S/C, at least.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I think of him as a jerk but not as a “bad” person as he is just a bit arrogant which isn’t an evil thing to be. He never helped TR in any way, he became the Champion before you did through fair means, and he never did anything harmful to Pokémon. He’s just your typical cocky kid that needs to be put into his place and nothing else. He always battled you fairly and if you lost then it was you who needed to change strategies.
 

pacman000

On a quest to be the best...
Actually, for about 10 years now I’ve thought that the game’s version of Gary (possibly) joined Team Rocket.

Early in the game, on Nugget Bridge, you’re given an opportunity to join them; Gary was always ahead of you. The story usually implies he had the same opportunities you did.

Later in the game Gary shows up at two of Team Rocket’s takeovers; in one of them he’s even leaving a conference room where Giovanni was...making a business proposition. Probably a forceful proposition. In both places Gary’s Pokemon are fully healed; he wasn’t defeated by Team Rocket.

I’ve also wondered for a couple of years now if the league weren’t supposed to be bad guys. The moral of the story seems to be “treat your Pokemon with love & respect,” but most of the gym leaders & the elite four seem obsessed with power, like your rival.

This stuff may have been caused by sloppy writing; I can’t say for sure this was Game Freak’s intent. But it is interesting.
 

TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
I mean Blue wasn't a bad guy sure but he was still a massive a-hole. I started feeling a little bad for him when I read the fan theories about his dead Raticate but that didn't erase how I felt about his childish rudeness. :[
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
pacman000 said:
Actually, for about 10 years now I’ve thought that the game’s version of Gary (possibly) joined Team Rocket.

Early in the game, on Nugget Bridge, you’re given an opportunity to join them; Gary was always ahead of you. The story usually implies he had the same opportunities you did.

Later in the game Gary shows up at two of Team Rocket’s takeovers; in one of them he’s even leaving a conference room where Giovanni was...making a business proposition. Probably a forceful proposition. In both places Gary’s Pokemon are fully healed; he wasn’t defeated by Team Rocket.

I’ve also wondered for a couple of years now if the league weren’t supposed to be bad guys. The moral of the story seems to be “treat your Pokemon with love & respect,” but most of the gym leaders & the elite four seem obsessed with power, like your rival.

This stuff may have been caused by sloppy writing; I can’t say for sure this was Game Freak’s intent. But it is interesting.

It's interesting to think about him working alongside the Rocket-dan organization, although I don't think the games were trying to imply that since he was never made out to be sympathetic towards the villains.
 

RedBlastoise

Cerulean Blues
He was mean but that's what I loved about him. The newer rivals are such posers but Blue was the real deal and we need more characters like him in the new games.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
In the games he was annoying and rude, tbh, but just more of a nuisance than anything else. We do get that lip service from professor Oak that the rival, allegedly doens't treat his Pokemon as friends while our protagonist, supposedly does so (no matter what actions the player actually takes during the game...)

In both the animes (standard, and origins) I actually like Gary/Blue better than the protagonists because...honestly Ash (the Kanto version, I've only ever realy watched the Kanto anime) and Red are freaking clueless idiots.
 

FloatzieDPPT

playing Version X
just played FireRed for the first time, he doesn't seem that bad, just a bit cocky.
 

FloatzieDPPT

playing Version X
He was mean but that's what I loved about him. The newer rivals are such posers but Blue was the real deal and we need more characters like him in the new games.
Honestly rivals like Barry are pretty good.
They are nice to you but not too nice, they are way in front of you but not that far away.

He has a goal and you can see him develop after he got destroyed by Saturn.
 

jaden767

Amphetamine
He's not a bad guy I agree but he was still someone that I hated running into. Plus in the Gen 1 games he never gets redemption and we never learn about his past outside of some trivial things.
 

PoDiRancher

Well-Known Member
I think the divide on Blue & Silver comes from older/younger fans. Younger people seem to like the more easygoing, non-confrontational, and frankly often kiss-ass "rivals" in later games. I think we're got a little thicker skin and like a strong rivalry you get with someone like Blue, the endearing "love to hate him" kinda thing. His snarky remarks and attitude should make you want to beat him more, not trigger you or annoy you.

Of course, he's got his problems as a character. He's too one-note, for one thing. A flat character is never good. Also, he would've been better if post-game gave him some kind of resolution. Anything other than "oh noess i lost agian??". Maybe if he finally acknowledged Red as an equal or something like that. Still, I'll take a flat antagonist with some attitude over boring friendly rivals any day. The vast, vast majority of characters are friendly outside of the evil teams, so it's nice to get one main character who is on your ass a bit.
 

KRSplat

Unevolved Mankey
◌ It got implied that he was supposed to be a family member of Professor Oak
since he was referred to through a familial relation instead of his actual name or title,
That can do a lot to make people more prejudgemental of his character

A similar statement, except phrased, in the form: ◄​
■ "Your rival is not that bad of a person" ■​
► Would have been far more contextually profound.

● The pretense of him being your mentor's offspring,
was what made the initial interaction, between Red and Blue, awkward.
Had he been framed as a random trainer who happened also to be a rival and an ally,
it would've been more evident that there was no meaningful dispute between them.

╬ Aside from a philosophical discrepancy about catching or battling pokemon,
the interactions between Blue and Red actually seem more dynamic depending on
if you're a battle-avoidant trainer that just catches some pokemon,
or a battle-mode trainer that sometimes matches up against the rival,
you could honestly also ignore both battling and catching pokemon,
and just stand there talking to your rival or something,
it depends on what stance you took in the game.​
 
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Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
It's implied that red and blue were friends prior to gen 1 but blue became more of a bully at one point.
I’d say Blue became more of an arrogant jerk and not quite a bully as he did insult you in RBY/FRLG but it wasn’t as mean spirited as it seems at first glance. He just didn’t think Red had what it took to succeed as a Pokémon trainer and just had a huge ego that needed to be popped. Same goes for Gary in the anime. Gary saw Ash not being serious enough to be a good trainer and he was always one step ahead of Ash who always seemed to lag far behind him so it’s understandable why Gary was so snooty with Ash during the OS.
 

pacman000

On a quest to be the best...
That was the intent, going by this old interview: http://pokedream.com/pokemon/infocenter/tajiri2.php

TIME: His main rival is named Shigeru. That's the first name of Miyamoto, the famous game designer at Nintendo who did Donkey Kong, Super Mario Bros. Do you consider him your rival?
Tajiri: No! I really look up to Miyamoto-san. In the TV series, Shigeru is Satoshi's master. In the game, they are rivals. Shigeru is always a little bit ahead of Satoshi.

TIME: Does Satoshi ever catch up with Shigeru?
Tajiri: No! Never!
 

PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
Actually, for about 10 years now I’ve thought that the game’s version of Gary (possibly) joined Team Rocket.

Early in the game, on Nugget Bridge, you’re given an opportunity to join them; Gary was always ahead of you. The story usually implies he had the same opportunities you did.

Later in the game Gary shows up at two of Team Rocket’s takeovers; in one of them he’s even leaving a conference room where Giovanni was...making a business proposition. Probably a forceful proposition. In both places Gary’s Pokemon are fully healed; he wasn’t defeated by Team Rocket.

I’ve also wondered for a couple of years now if the league weren’t supposed to be bad guys. The moral of the story seems to be “treat your Pokemon with love & respect,” but most of the gym leaders & the elite four seem obsessed with power, like your rival.

This stuff may have been caused by sloppy writing; I can’t say for sure this was Game Freak’s intent. But it is interesting.

I always enjoyed this theory more than the silly and edgy Blue's Dead Raticate one.

It definitely has a lot of circumstantial evidence. He has a Rattata which is a common TR Pokemon, he is present in Sliph during the invasion and even says you are ready for Boss Rocket which is a weird phrase to utter, has a Rhyhorn/Rhydon (perhaps, he is a protege of Giovanni), and Oak tells him off for not caring for his Pokemon enough.

That being said.

1. Rattata are common Pokemon
2. Being in Sliph could be explained by the developers wanting a Blue battle for the second half of the game and picking a place where the PC had to go. RBY is wide open. They couldn't place him in the Seafoam Islands or Cycling Road without making those places necessary to visit. Of course, in-universe, this doesn't explain why Blue would be at Sliph and talk about facing Giovanni.
3. Rhyhorn/Rhydon is a stretch.
4. Oak was probably just speaking in general. One of the themes was about treating your Pokemon with respect.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Let's not bump up super old threads. Thanks.
 
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