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Prostitution

ChedWick

Well-Known Member
well then should they be allowed to put drugs in their own body?

Yes?

ive posted it twice already...

I recall you claiming a Victoria incident but only after I noticed one initial claim to refute the mountain of other evidence that a legal industry provided a far better atmosphere than an illegal one. I may be missing it with the plethora of multiquotes going on but I've yet to see a link to your claims but rather an honorable mention if you will.


2. never said extramarital sex immoral. also if no one expressed their morals on to others, it would never be passed on. its not bad at all to "force" morals on others. also morals are forced on us all the time ever since we were kids. based on logic you've provided, isnt it sickening that parents do the same thing?? (being a butthole and dont actually mean this statement)

Right, it's not bad to be brought up thinking blacks are an inferior race of people, or that the Chinese are all evil beings, or that anyone remotely tan is a terrorist, or that homosexuality is to be feared and hated.

3. Laws arent a result of morals, morals are a result of laws. (see i can do it too. But i actually think this might be a chicken and egg argument)

It is indeed a chicken and an egg argument so that statement said should be ignored.


It would prevent people from becoming prostitutes. But nothing to help the ones. thats why there are other laws and things that can be done to help save them. (which is what we are currently doing with our current laws)

Again you are arguing from behind a smokescreen of your own bias. You are arguing we need to save everyone who wants to or is selling their body for sex.


Absolutely not. We're trying to cure HIV, not spread it around more.

This has already been addressed and in the vast majority of cases where prostitution is legal STD's were not an issue.


The prostitution lifestyle is sickening, disgusting, and furthermore just downright pathetic. Let us keep what little morality and dignity humanity has, shall we?

EVERYTHING you just said is subjective.

So, have any good argument against it?
 
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ebilly99

Americanreigon champ
Absolutely not. We're trying to cure HIV, not spread it around more. The prostitution lifestyle is sickening, disgusting, and furthermore just downright pathetic. Let us keep what little morality and dignity humanity has, shall we?

Hiv is spread thorugh sexual contact with people who are infected. Those that would become legal prostitutes would have to be test regularly, thus elimenating that problem. Safe sex of any kind is what is needed to prevent spread, Prostituion is a straw man.
Mankind is much more moral today then in the days of killing witchs. Let us continue to progress and rid ourselves of this intolorant behavior. If you don't want to have a prostitute then dont get one.
 

pikapikachiu

Well-Known Member

haha good one. ok i should be more direct. should people be allowed to put acid or heroin or other harder drugs? the point im trying to make is, at what point do we draw the line to which we should tell people what they should and shouldnt do. you say it is not too harmful to them if it is well regulated, but i say that there is a huge potential. its funny how we are on two ends of this continuum. regulation or prevention is what i feel like we are splitting between.

That's a pretty big "if".

If someone believes they are better off without a degree, then that is not the fault of prostitution, just like it isn't McDonald's fault if they attract people that are too lazy to study and develop life skills.

its not as farfetched as you think. But i remember someone bring up that they should have an age before your allowed to try to prostitute, which actually sound like a good idea. he said 25 is a good age due to the brian development, and i like that but ideally for me it would be about 27. like seriously i know for a fact that given the right amount of time, people will not go into this profession cuz they become smart and mature enough.

The fact that you brought up "friends with benefits" doesn't strengthen your point. Besides the possibility that not all prostitutes are charismatic enough to earn another's trust, all this statement does is expose your double standard (supporting multiple sex partners in "friendships with benefits" but opposing them in "prostitution").

see i really could care less about how many sex partners. its all about the mentality of which includes intention and relational development. prostitution does not do well for any relationships and changes negatively how people think.

If you never implied that extramarital sex or multiple sex partners was immoral, then what morals could you possibly be enforcing by banning prostitution?

extramarital sex is pretty outdate, especially in the generation i grew up in. i guess my morals are just from what we consider normal and healthy. so what people tell me about having a good family and stuff. prostitution does not promote a good family dynamic at all

Morals are not an expression of law. Law is an expression of morals. You don't change someone's unique sense of morality by imposing a law since the law will either be protested against or broken if someone disagrees with it.

i dont see why you think my argument is the unique one. pretty sure if there was vote of people prostitution should be legal, most people would say no(probably why it is illegal in the majority of places.

You bring up how parents "force" morals onto children without understanding that children are widely considered less capable of rational decisionmaking than adults. As such, children should not have the full rights of an adult.

Furthermore, I believe it IS bad for parents to force their morality onto their children. What I believe parents SHOULD do is carefully assess various outcomes of various choices that their children could make and discuss them with their children, and give them a choice. Not a broad choice (since children are less capable of making informed decisions), but they shouldn't be forced into a single course of action unless they're unjustly endangering others or themselves.

yea i know they arent rational, but whether you like it or not, parents do force their morals on you. it happens through consistant demonstation through out the child's upbringing. they kind of ingrain it into the child. now as we grow up, become more rational and this is why people will think differently. But im pretty sure that if most people our age, who were raised in a good home, would have the conflict of dealing with morals when in the given situations. not sure if you have ever seek a prostitute, but im willing to bet that given the situation, you will realize your morals. (what we think we do is completely different from what we actually do)

However, all of that is irrelevant. We ARE talking about people who are adults and have to know how to take care of themselves. Though you might say that morality is forced on a child, you do not force morality on an adult in the same way.

like i said before, that age limit thing should be applied if we are really gonna legalize it. people really arent adults until that age really(even though laws say 18, in a developmental psychology perspective, 25-28 is the age we really stop trying to change.)

Why is it wrong to kill or steal? Because the law says so?

Or perhaps the law says so because it is wrong to kill or steal (generally speaking).

If your morality is dictated by law then you need to seek help, as it would mean that you believe that one is never justified in breaking the law (if people didn't break the law, so many civil rights movements would have never gotten off the ground).

well ive actually thought about it and im actually gonna go back to saying that morals are from laws/rules. see morals are given to us as kids and i definitely remember from psychology, that as kids, we judge what is right and wrong based on the rules instilled on us. like think about when blacks and whites were treated unequally. kids were raised to think that whites were superior. now pretty sure you met those really old people who were still racist against them(due to how they were raised and morals learned from them.) then when you compare the younger generations, laws were changed and now we dont really think that except if we were raised by people who still highly held those morals. Then this is where breaking laws we dont see as right come in. when we get closer to becoming adults, we dont think based on what is right and wrong and we have the ability to be situation. so then we come up with situations when this law would not apply and we try to change it based on that. (anyone with a psychology background and wanna confirm this?)

No it wouldn't. Just like how laws against alcohol in the past didn't stop people from drinking beer. They just did it underground in less-safe conditions.

You say "nothing can be done to help the ones [who are already prostitutes]". The majority of this thread are proposing something that CAN be done to help those who are already prostitutes: give them more power over their situation. Let them be paid more fairly. Let them be treated more fairly.

pretty sure alcohol and prostitution are two completely different things. if they ban it im not gonna revolt and find a prostitute, i can get sex else where on a more consistant bases and less money. you go to a prostitute for sex, but thats not the only place(probably not the first place even) where you will go looking for it. well i should make it clear that nothing can be done to help them in the sense of regulation and keeping them prostitutes. stuff CAN be done to help them get out and find stable jobs and stuff.

How is the "mentality" of a pornographic actress different to that of a prostitute? The sole difference is that one works with a camera and one doesn't. They both do the same job. It's like the difference between an actor in a theatre and an actor in a theatre with cameras.

it is very different based on many things. how society views them, how the partners treat them, and how they think of themselves. prostitutes aren't viewed highly of. really bad working conditions cuz they dont become friends with their clients. pornstars on the other hand do actually become friends and stuff and there is a level of professionalism. did you know a male porn star has to be able to last an hour or something like that?? pretty sure clients dont and they just use the prostitutes to fill their own desire. also you can defiantly compare the esteem of prostitutes and porn stars. you get alot of porn stars who are happy with their decisions as seen in many interviews(just look them up in magazines or like interviews online). now in the site i posted before, prostitute want to get out and do not wish for other people, especially their kids to go in the same business. explain why these differences are?



Firstly, I need some statistics.

Secondly, even if this IS true, attacking prostitution won't get rid of the drug problem.

haha way too easy

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=63886

now to summarize it. all that were interviewed and surveyed took drugs. 72% heroin, 93% with weed, 83 with cocaine. study tested validity of the answers and they were good. it also says that pimps do not want their prostitutes on drugs so alot of them do it themselves. also it wont get rid of drug problem but it helps. your less likely to do drugs if your in an environment that promotes being drug free(this is how addicts sober up)


And yet, the vast majority of restaurants maintain adequate conditions, partially as a way of attracting customers, while the customers themselves tend to stay away from the restaurants with subpar conditions. I expect this to happen to some degree with brothels if they were legalized.

well if you notice there are rating on the restaurants by health inspectors.also some maybe sub par and they are given like a 3 month period to make it better to meet bare minimum to prevent closing. now ive worked a few restaurants and ive been fortunate enough to work in pretty clean places. but when i go to restaurants, i kinda know what to look around for and i can say there are a bunch of really bad places. this is really just based on my observation, but pretty sure its not a rare thing.

3. If I recall, I never said that the industry wouldn't expand. All industries must and will expand. I said that the increase would not be out-of-control. If you read the article at all, the only instance given where "out of control" is remotely mentioned is Switzerland, which is an isolated case (indeed, most of point 3 is about the increase in legal brothels). Expansion of an industry is a good thing. It encourages competition.

yea but how do you classify out of control? a 25% increase is a big increase. like take restaurants. an increase of 25% of new restaurants is ALOT

10. "Most of the 146 women said a bunch of things and one of them said something particularly major." Small sample. Vague. For instance, we know if that woman lost "everything" because of prostitution, but we do not know if that woman lost everything because of the legalization of prostitution.

the sample size is not too small based on the number prostitutes out there. what do you think would be different if we did legalize it?

Why must those with clear judgement suffer because of some people with bad judgement? If we banned things because SOME people have bad judgement, we'd get nothing and nowhere.

Ideally, one's "suitability" for suicide and mental health should be assessed by a third party.

When he/she threatens to infringe on the rights/security of others.

well isnt it better to be safe than to be sorry(this is for the argument in general). But ive said before that suicide is not a natural thing for us. it is always about a problem that can be helped out by intervention of others. we ban it because all people who think of attempting suicide have bad judgement. see people as a society need to understand to work more together and not just interveine with thing if it bothers them. you know if people pay attention to other people, they can save and make a person's life by just offering a hand to them.

I'm really tempted to completely agree with you, but....it's not that simple. I know it's horrible and all that, but....The world is full of pigs anyway. Without prostitutes, there would be more a lot more rapes. I say there has to be one alternative to raping for ppl who want to have sex, but can't for whatever reason.

why would it lead to more rapes? why wouldnt more people just take care of the problem themselves with their hands?? or even toys?
 

Double A

Well-Known Member
haha good one. ok i should be more direct. should people be allowed to put acid or heroin or other harder drugs? the point im trying to make is, at what point do we draw the line to which we should tell people what they should and shouldnt do. you say it is not too harmful to them if it is well regulated, but i say that there is a huge potential. its funny how we are on two ends of this continuum. regulation or prevention is what i feel like we are splitting between.

The difference between drugs and prostitution is that measures can be taken to minimise risk in prostitution (the first is legalization), but there is nothing that can be done to make drugs less harmful. Some drugs have long-term effects that are negligible (people drink alcohol all the time and still end up like decent people), while others WILL greatly alter your behaviour and damage your health with regular use, and there is no way to avoid that at all. There's a point where extended drug use will warp someone's behaviour to the point where society may be threatened (some drugs often correlate with aggression, for example)

The trick is education. Education, education, education. It's true that giving more people an education as well as teaching them about the risks of various facets of society will probably make them less likely to become a prostitute or a druggie. And I have no problem with that. All I have a problem with is the removal of rights.

see i really could care less about how many sex partners. its all about the mentality of which includes intention and relational development. prostitution does not do well for any relationships and changes negatively how people think.

As said before, while promiscuity is a symptom of antisocial behaviour, it does not mean that all prostitutes are antisocial.

Also, as said before, relationships are not protected under law.

extramarital sex is pretty outdate, especially in the generation i grew up in. i guess my morals are just from what we consider normal and healthy. so what people tell me about having a good family and stuff. prostitution does not promote a good family dynamic at all

Not all prostitutes and clients have families or desire to form one.

i dont see why you think my argument is the unique one. pretty sure if there was vote of people prostitution should be legal, most people would say no(probably why it is illegal in the majority of places.

You don't vote on whether or not someone has a right to do something with their own body. Prostitution has no practical effect on YOU, for example, so why should you be able to vote on it?

well ive actually thought about it and im actually gonna go back to saying that morals are from laws/rules. see morals are given to us as kids and i definitely remember from psychology, that as kids, we judge what is right and wrong based on the rules instilled on us. like think about when blacks and whites were treated unequally. kids were raised to think that whites were superior. now pretty sure you met those really old people who were still racist against them(due to how they were raised and morals learned from them.) then when you compare the younger generations, laws were changed and now we dont really think that except if we were raised by people who still highly held those morals. Then this is where breaking laws we dont see as right come in. when we get closer to becoming adults, we dont think based on what is right and wrong and we have the ability to be situation. so then we come up with situations when this law would not apply and we try to change it based on that. (anyone with a psychology background and wanna confirm this?)

So what you're telling me is that your morality ISN'T derived from law?

If I flew you to one of the more extremist muslim regions where the law dictates that all women must wear headscarves and conduct themselves in total modesty, you would NOT believe that it is "right" to enforce said law?

The point is, black people, indian people, etc. would not have recieved civil rights had they not broken laws. We judge what is right and wrong not from the law, but from our sense of empathy. The laws wouldn't have changed in the first place if people derived their morality from law.

pretty sure alcohol and prostitution are two completely different things. if they ban it im not gonna revolt and find a prostitute, i can get sex else where on a more consistant bases and less money. you go to a prostitute for sex, but thats not the only place(probably not the first place even) where you will go looking for it.

Not everyone is as charismatic as you. It's not exactly easy to find sex outside of prostitution.

well i should make it clear that nothing can be done to help them in the sense of regulation and keeping them prostitutes.

Things can be done to help prostitutes. This thread has listed many of them many times.



you get alot of porn stars who are happy with their decisions as seen in many interviews(just look them up in magazines or like interviews online). now in the site i posted before, prostitute want to get out and do not wish for other people, especially their kids to go in the same business. explain why these differences are?

Because pornography is legal and regulated in far more places than prostitution.

also it wont get rid of drug problem but it helps. your less likely to do drugs if your in an environment that promotes being drug free(this is how addicts sober up)

Prostitution isn't the REASON people take drugs. Making prostitution illegal won't put people in "an environment that promotes being drug free".

well if you notice there are rating on the restaurants by health inspectors.also some maybe sub par and they are given like a 3 month period to make it better to meet bare minimum to prevent closing. now ive worked a few restaurants and ive been fortunate enough to work in pretty clean places. but when i go to restaurants, i kinda know what to look around for and i can say there are a bunch of really bad places. this is really just based on my observation, but pretty sure its not a rare thing.

In my experience, nobody really eats at the "really bad places".

yea but how do you classify out of control? a 25% increase is a big increase. like take restaurants. an increase of 25% of new restaurants is ALOT

"ALOT" =/= out of control.

the sample size is not too small based on the number prostitutes out there. what do you think would be different if we did legalize it?

146 is a small number of anything when you're doing a survey that speaks for people all around the world.

If we legalized it AND effectively enforced certain policies, prostitutes would be a lot better off. The prostitute that "lost everything" might not have. For all we know that prostitute might have come from one of the places where prostitution is illegal.

well isnt it better to be safe than to be sorry(this is for the argument in general).

Tell that to the people that refuse to extend legal PROTECTION to prostitutes.

But ive said before that suicide is not a natural thing for us. it is always about a problem that can be helped out by intervention of others. we ban it because all people who think of attempting suicide have bad judgement. see people as a society need to understand to work more together and not just interveine with thing if it bothers them. you know if people pay attention to other people, they can save and make a person's life by just offering a hand to them.

Tell that to the people who are told they are going to die an uncomfortable death.

why would it lead to more rapes? why wouldnt more people just take care of the problem themselves with their hands?? or even toys?

Because not everyone is satisfied with hands or toys. For many people, having an actual person is part of the experience.
 

Antiyonder

Overlord
haha good one. ok i should be more direct. should people be allowed to put acid or heroin or other harder drugs? the point im trying to make is, at what point do we draw the line to which we should tell people what they should and shouldnt do. you say it is not too harmful to them if it is well regulated, but i say that there is a huge potential.

Well if a person chooses to do something harmful to themselves, we really don't have a right to interfere with said person.

Now if that person is seeking to harm you or someone else, then the law has a right to intervene.

So tell me. How do prostitutes harm you?

But im pretty sure that if most people our age, who were raised in a good home, would have the conflict of dealing with morals when in the given situations. not sure if you have ever seek a prostitute, but im willing to bet that given the situation, you will realize your morals. (what we think we do is completely different from what we actually do)

And incidentally, forcing your views on someone, even with good intentions is sometimes a moral wrong itself. Good intentions doesn't make bad behavior or actions right.
 
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pikapikachiu

Well-Known Member
The trick is education. Education, education, education. It's true that giving more people an education as well as teaching them about the risks of various facets of society will probably make them less likely to become a prostitute or a druggie. And I have no problem with that. All I have a problem with is the removal of rights.

ok then let say we do put an age limit. would you agree with organizations trying to convince and try to promote people that enter the business to quit?

Not all prostitutes and clients have families or desire to form one.

yea not all. but lets assume majority.

You don't vote on whether or not someone has a right to do something with their own body. Prostitution has no practical effect on YOU, for example, so why should you be able to vote on it?

it does if my kids are able to see it. it does if people try to advertise it in public settings. also with our current models of prostitutions that people have a general idea of, it brings in potential for increase criminal activity and drug activity. so it does affect others indirectly. why should i not be able to then?

So what you're telling me is that your morality ISN'T derived from law?

If I flew you to one of the more extremist muslim regions where the law dictates that all women must wear headscarves and conduct themselves in total modesty, you would NOT believe that it is "right" to enforce said law?

yea ok but what about the people who grew up there? you know they dont think of it like the way we do.

The point is, black people, indian people, etc. would not have recieved civil rights had they not broken laws. We judge what is right and wrong not from the law, but from our sense of empathy. The laws wouldn't have changed in the first place if people derived their morality from law.

so then empathy has no impact on morality? also what about the morals of the slave owners when slaves were legal? you think most of the white slave owners had empathy for what they considered property?? also it was not a sense of empathy that caused civil rights movements. its the rebellion of oppressed groups.

Prostitution isn't the REASON people take drugs. Making prostitution illegal won't put people in "an environment that promotes being drug free".

well we dont know that. there is a high rate of drug use with prostitution and that we know for sure. the thought of the drug free environment is that since there is a high rate of use among prostitution, getting them away makes it one less excuse to do drugs. like the reason for my thinking of this is because i know that the behavior of drug users are set to that they will do the drug again. this is why rehab suggest changing your environment and who you hang out with to get sober. get yourself out of what you were doing that has any effect on making an excuse to do drugs. but yea definitely agree it doesnt solve it like ive said before.


In my experience, nobody really eats at the "really bad places".

you would be surprised. some places put up a really good front of the house appearance.

"ALOT" =/= out of control.

so how much is it then?


146 is a small number of anything when you're doing a survey that speaks for people all around the world.

146 is a good sample size out of the populations of prostitutes. its not of all people.


If we legalized it AND effectively enforced certain policies, prostitutes would be a lot better off. The prostitute that "lost everything" might not have. For all we know that prostitute might have come from one of the places where prostitution is illegal.

you know that most prostitutes are forced into doing stuff by the pimps. how do you suggest we get them to be better off? like how do you suggest people who were victimize get help after legalization?


Tell that to the people who are told they are going to die an uncomfortable death.

well that part is a huge debate concerning the terminally ill. But anyone else who isnt it terminally ill should be stopped.

Because not everyone is satisfied with hands or toys. For many people, having an actual person is part of the experience.


o_O it takes a pretty messed up person psychologically to assault and rape another person. most people can do just fine by themselves although they will still have feelings for wanting another person.
 

Antiyonder

Overlord
it does if my kids are able to see it. it does if people try to advertise it in public settings.

Sure, but for those that do so in private, you have no business telling them what to do.

so then empathy has no impact on morality? also what about the morals of the slave owners when slaves were legal? you think most of the white slave owners had empathy for what they considered property?? also it was not a sense of empathy that caused civil rights movements. its the rebellion of oppressed groups.

Just because it was legal then, didn't make it right. Let me ask you this. Do you blindly just listen to what the majority tells you without questioning things, or do you even try to think for yourself?
 

SwiftSoul

Kinkmeister General
> you know that most prostitutes are forced into doing stuff by the pimps. how do you suggest we get them to be better off? like how do you suggest people who were victimize get help after legalization?

That's not only a fallacious appeal, it's quite a claim that you have not backed up whatsoever. You not only have no proof shown to back it up, that is a claim almost impossible to prove either way, due to general lack of study in the area.
 

Double A

Well-Known Member
ok then let say we do put an age limit. would you agree with organizations trying to convince and try to promote people that enter the business to quit?

Free speech, bro. Of course I'd be okay with allowing them, even if I don't agree with them.

yea not all. but lets assume majority.

No, let's not. You never assume the majority unless there's good reason to do so.

it does if my kids are able to see it. it does if people try to advertise it in public settings. also with our current models of prostitutions that people have a general idea of, it brings in potential for increase criminal activity and drug activity. so it does affect others indirectly. why should i not be able to then?

In New Zealand, there is a law that says that brothels must be advertised as "massage parlours" and that prostitutes must be advertised as "escorts". On top of that, there's a lot of advertisement regulation (I've never seen or heard a brothel advertisement). Obviously advertisement doesn't need to be a problem.

Criminal activity is not necessarily linked to prostitution. There are other things you should be attacking if you want to lessen criminal activity.

yea ok but what about the people who grew up there? you know they dont think of it like the way we do.

That's not the point. My point is that laws are not inherently moral. Morals differ from person to person, while laws do not.

well we dont know that. there is a high rate of drug use with prostitution and that we know for sure. the thought of the drug free environment is that since there is a high rate of use among prostitution, getting them away makes it one less excuse to do drugs. like the reason for my thinking of this is because i know that the behavior of drug users are set to that they will do the drug again. this is why rehab suggest changing your environment and who you hang out with to get sober. get yourself out of what you were doing that has any effect on making an excuse to do drugs. but yea definitely agree it doesnt solve it like ive said before.

But that's the thing. Prostitution is not an excuse to do drugs.

Correlation does not imply causation. If you want to get rid of drugs then you should be attacking other things.

you would be surprised. some places put up a really good front of the house appearance.

You would be surprised. Word spreads quickly about how "dirty" some restaurants can be.

so how much is it then?

Do you know the meaning of "regulate"?

146 is a good sample size out of the populations of prostitutes. its not of all people.

146 is a bad number when you're talking about prostitutes all over the world.

you know that most prostitutes are forced into doing stuff by the pimps. how do you suggest we get them to be better off? like how do you suggest people who were victimize get help after legalization?

You do know that prostitution is illegal in most places and unregulated almost everywhere else, right?

And as for the second thing, I've said it over and over again.

o_O it takes a pretty messed up person psychologically to assault and rape another person. most people can do just fine by themselves although they will still have feelings for wanting another person.

In your own words, "better to be safe than sorry".

If there's no outlet for people to vent their sexual desire, then they will take it out on real people if it's strong enough.
 
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ebilly99

Americanreigon champ
first one to admit WALL OF TEXT

humanismbyjoe/prostitution

In many communities throughout the U.S., the police investigate and arrest persons involved in prostitution. A careful examination of this practice shows that it reduces the quality of life in society.

Legalization improves neighborhoods and promotes safety

By forcing prostitution out of places where it would more naturally be found, such as in brothels or near motels, the police drive that activity into the streets of neighborhoods where it otherwise would not exist. As a result, residents of the neighborhoods are exposed to the activity against their will.

Also because of prostitution being forced into the streets, the dangers to many prostitutes greatly increase. Prostitutes whose jobs involve working at night and getting into cars with strangers can be, and often have been, easy pickings for serial killers and other sociopaths. James Alan Fox, a criminal justice professor at Northeastern University, says prostitutes are the most frequent targets for serial killers.

A sensible solution to these problems would be to follow the example of some European cities, where prostitution is allowed in certain designated areas. People who are interested in the activity go to places where it's permitted, and they leave alone the neighborhoods that don't wish to be associated with it. And the prostitutes can work in environments where they are much safer.

Legalization reduces crime

Another problem with prostitution arrests is that they cause long-term increases in crime and drug abuse in society. Margo St. James, a former social worker and a leading advocate of legalizing prostitution, writes: "When a woman is charged for a sex crime, it's a stigma that lasts her lifetime, and it makes her unemployable."

St. James identifies this stigma as a major reason why a large percentage of women who are in jail were first arrested for prostitution. The arrest record forecloses normal employment possibilities, keeps the women working as prostitutes longer than they otherwise would, and sets them up for a lifetime of involvement with drugs and serious crime.

Keeping prostitution illegal also contributes to crime because many criminals view prostitutes and their customers as attractive targets for robbery, fraud, rape, or other criminal acts. The criminals realize that such people are unlikely to report the crimes to police, because the victims would have to admit they were involved in the illegal activity of prostitution when the attacks took place.

If prostitution were legal, these victims would be less reluctant to report to police any criminal acts that occurred while they were involved in it. This would significantly improve the probability of catching the criminals and preventing them from victimizing others. In many cases, it could deter them from committing the crimes in the first place.

That view is consistent with the experience of the European countries where prostitution is legal. They have far lower crime rates than the U.S.

A similar situation applies in the Nevada counties where prostitution is legal. According to Barb Brents and Kate Hausbeck, two professors of sociology at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas who have extensively studied the Nevada brothel industry, those counties are quite peaceable and have very low crime rates.

No wonder that in November 2004 in Churchill County, Nevada, a ballot proposal to outlaw prostitution was rejected by a 2-to-1 margin. Although the county is mostly Republican and supported George W. Bush for president, the same voters saw no reason to stop brothels from operating there.

Legalization promotes liberty and privacy

Laws against prostitution violate Americans' fundamental rights of individual liberty and personal privacy. Thomas Jefferson and other founders of the U.S. envisioned a society where people can live without interference from government, provided they don't harm others.

As Jefferson said in his First Inaugural Address: "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement." Or as Arthur Hoppe wrote about consensual acts in the San Francisco Chronicle in 1992: "The function of government is to protect me from others. It's up to me, thank you, to protect me from me."

Similar to issues such as birth control, abortion, and the right to death with dignity, this issue involves people's fundamental rights to control their own bodies and decide the best way to conduct their lives. Alan Soble noted, "The freedom to choose one's reasons for engaging in sex is an important part of sexual freedom."

In a free society, it makes no sense for the government to be telling persons - particularly the poor - they cannot charge a fee for harmless services they otherwise are at liberty to give away. To paraphrase George Carlin: Selling is legal, and sex is legal, so why isn't selling sex legal?

Legalization benefits sex workers and their clients

Many people work in the sex industry because they see it as their only means of alleviating serious financial problems. Other sex workers aren't poor but simply enjoy that type of work and receive both income and personal satisfaction from it.

As one sex worker wrote in an article for a national newspaper: "All in all prostitution has been good to me and I have been good to it. . . . I don't really have to work anymore, but I love the business, so I still see my regular clients."

Likewise for the customers, there's no reason their freedom should not include the right to purchase the companionship and affection they may want but, for whatever reason, don't find in other aspects of their lives.

For example, one disabled man told researchers he was lonely and visited prostitutes because "I'm ugly, no women will go out with me. . . . It's because of my disability. So prostitutes are a sexual outlet for me." Another man reported that he did the same for a number of years due to being "anorexic and very reclusive. There was no chance of forming a relationship." A physically unattractive man added, "I pay for sex because that is the only way I can get sex."

Another person said his experiences with prostitutes and other sex workers helped him overcome an extreme aversion to physical intimacy, which had resulted from years of physical and emotional abuse while growing up. He explained: "I very likely would have died a virgin if I hadn't somehow gotten comfortable with physical intimacy, and sex workers enabled me to do that. At least for me, it's been a healing experience."

Dr. John Money, a leading sexologist and a professor at Johns Hopkins University, similarly notes that sex workers, with proper training, can assist clients in overcoming "erotic phobia" and various other sexual dysfunctions. He says that for the clients, "the relationship with a paid professional may be the equivalent of therapy."

Can anyone, other than the ignorant or cruel, argue that sex workers should not be permitted to help such persons?

Legalization puts law-enforcement resources to better uses

Numerous legal commentators point out that using law enforcement resources against prostitution reduces substantially the resources available to fight serious crimes committed against persons or property. This nation desperately needs more efforts applied to solving those crimes, because arrests are being made in connection with only about 20% of them.

And according to the Multinational Monitor, massive amounts of white-collar crime are not being prosecuted. The magazine also says the damage inflicted on society by corporate crime and violence far exceeds the harm caused by all the street crime combined. The victims of the Enron and WorldCom scandals - many of whom lost their life savings - would probably support that claim.

As Ralph Nader stated in 2000: "Law enforcement, which is supposed to protect the incomes of consumers from corporate crime, fraud and abuse is a farce, devoid of resources and the will to apply necessary law and order. Hundreds of billions of dollars are being looted from consumers yearly."

Some researchers say a reason for the inordinate amount of police attention to prostitution is that certain officers prefer duties enabling them to be with attractive women in hotel rooms or massage parlors. The duties are more pleasant, far less dangerous, and less complex than assignments requiring them to be among violent criminals who may be carrying weapons.

For instance, in 1999 at least one of the vice-squad officers in Columbus, Ohio, was regularly having sexual intercourse with prostitutes before arresting them.

After receiving negative publicity about that practice, the police division issued new guidelines limiting officers to getting completely naked with prostitutes; touching their thigh, genitals, buttock, pubic region, breast, or other regions to the extent needed "to obtain the necessary elements of the offense"; being masturbated briefly; and "momentarily" having sexual intercourse if it's "in spite of all reasonable efforts of the officer to stop." (In practice, though, the officers apparently find it necessary to use those tactics only in arresting female - not male - prostitutes.)

Because of these "requirements of their assignments," the policy directs that officers receive periodic training on sexually transmitted diseases.

Despite the revised guidelines, in 2003 the Columbus Dispatch quoted one court clerk as describing the officers' arrest reports as sometimes being so steamy she "should have a cigarette after reading it." The head of the vice squad admitted to the newspaper that "it appears officers are engaging in sexual contact."

His officers give new meaning to being "in hot pursuit." Unfortunately for the public, this nonsense goes on at the same time that Columbus has over 400 unsolved murders since 1990, including several prostitutes brutally murdered by a possible serial killer. When a frightened group of senior citizens and disabled persons asked in 2004 for more protection from violent crime, the Columbus police chief turned them down, saying, "Seventy-eight times a day we are unable to fill a cruiser because of lack of personnel." And in 2008 he acknowledged that citizens criticizing the police for insufficient patrols and slow responses to complaints "have legitimate beefs."

As for white-collar crime, the police undoubtedly know that their jobs and careers are safer by making prostitution arrests than by investigating criminals who cause serious harm but either wield political power or have strong connections to those who do. And when the corruption involves others in the police force, the notorious "Blue Wall of Silence" leads all too many officers to ignore and protect the wrongdoing of badge-wearing criminals too.

Conclusion

Our society would be better served if the police directed their efforts away from the activities of consenting adults and toward preventing and solving real crimes involving clear victims and injustices.
 

ChedWick

Well-Known Member
it does if my kids are able to see it. it does if people try to advertise it in public settings. also with our current models of prostitutions that people have a general idea of, it brings in potential for increase criminal activity and drug activity. so it does affect others indirectly. why should i not be able to then?
How many porn advertisements do you come across in your daily life? Do try and exclude what ever back ally adventures you may go on when surfing the internet. Not seeing where I'm going with this? Legalizing prostitution is not going to mean an all out explosion of exposure. Also, no, you are just flat out wrong.
146 is a good sample size out of the populations of prostitutes. its not of all people.


No, not it is not.


you know that most prostitutes are forced into doing stuff by the pimps. how do you suggest we get them to be better off? like how do you suggest people who were victimize get help after legalization?

Sooo because correcting the wrong of an illegal market is difficult we should leave it illegal and continue to let the negative effects that are directly related to the illegality of the market persists? Honestly, are you even trying to make a sound argument?



You are just full of win this evening aren't you?
 

Grei

not the color
ook so let me elaborate more on this. it is a characteristics of it yes. But when you observe prostitute behavior, they have many other life style traits that are fall into the diagnosis category. for example, drugs is very tied with prostitution, which is another thing that indicates antisocial behavior. majority of the time, drug behavior leads to stealing and stuff, which is another one. also another drug behavior is consistant lying which is another one. even the consistant lying of living a double life if they choose not to disclose information of their job can be considered as one too. we do not consider it a norm, so entering the business is another one(different from being sexual promiscuity). also prostitution isnt exactly a stable job, so being unable to maintain a consistant work behavior is one. not all of them have these but these traits are defiantly very common.

Once again, B DOES NOT CAUSE A JUST BECAUSE A CAUSES B. Simply performing some of the symptoms of a personality disorder does not mean you have the personality disorder. Even if a prostitute had every single symptom of antisocial personality disorder, if all of the symptoms were caused by different things, then she can still not have the disorder. The disorder can show itself in those symptoms, but the presence of a few of those symptoms alone is not justification for claiming that all prostitutes are antisocial. Never mind the fact that things like lying and drug abuse often go hand-in-hand, and all of those other symptoms are general symptoms of a number of other mental illnesses and disorders. This argument of yours is plain ridiculous.

pikapikachiu said:
actually theres that chipndale study that shows a decrease in empathy of the male strippers towards women. not prostitutes(some might be though), but they have very similar experiences. other stripper related ones too that show the same for women towards men. there might be a few on prostitutes, but i would imagine it to be hard to conduct. but yea you can definitely extrapolate from the stripper study as they are very similar and some are also prostitutes. also read above for more on why it could be anti social. also im taking into lots of things into account with what i say. just way too much to write down, but i have explained myself when you guys ask questions.

And once again, there's nothing saying the lack of empathy is a result of a personality disorder. Considering how emotionally binding sex can be, it's not surprising that men who use sex for their job become more emotionally detached and distant in order to make a living. Compare it to a dissociation of bad memories if you wish.

And it's great that you think you make sense, but frankly, to us, you don't. You've presented nothing to indicate that prostitution causes antisocial personality disorder other than tidbits of flawed logic and claims that you "know what you're talking about." Not good enough.
 

Pomegranate

Fruit of Prosperity
Just throwing this out there: rape is about power and control, not about sexual desire, so prostitution being legal or illegal will have little to no effect on the instances of it.

That being said, I completely agree that prostitution should be legalized but there becomes a huge practical problem in enforcing it. The police would have to probably build buildings similar to a DMV to get a prostitute's license, and then they would have to regularly find every prostitute and check up on them to make sure their licenses are still valid, they would have to hire people to make the licenses and such, etc. There's the very practical concern of "would there be enough money/manpower". :x
 

Pomegranate

Fruit of Prosperity
Uh, WRONG.

Source 1
Source 2 - sorry about the colors on that, it's a rape survivor site, not a site by a masterful html..er
Source 3 - Rather long article, ctrl+f for "why" and the second result is where it talks about motives

The only place I can find that supports that rape is about the sex at the core is this site, which acknowledges that it is in the minority in this opinion. Just saying "wrong" doesn't automatically invalidate a point, but any more on this topic and it'll probably be getting off-topic, there's a thread about rape for a reason, lol.
 

Charizardfan900

Charizard King!
And to answer the question, i think no. Its wrong to pay someone for intercourse. Also it would help spread STDS (or STIs now). And, Isn't intercourse about loving or really liking someone (emotionally of course). Plus many are forced into it.
 
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GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Why is it wrong to pay for intercourse? We do it already: it's called porn.

The other reasons you listed don't really have anything to do with the legality of it. I'd rather them be "forced" into something legal than illegal.
 
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