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Questioning concerning the vaccine

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
Before this gets started do not come here saying I’m anti vax because my work offered it way before it was even out to the public and a lot of family are vaccinated.

With that being said the vaccine confuses me. If the vaccine doesn’t actually stop people from getting it, doesn’t prevent you from dying from it completely or transmitting it why exactly is there a push? Theoretically even if herd immunity was achieved we would still have the possibility of transmitting Covid to other people. Vaccines don’t stop viruses from mutating and news reports have even admitted that the vaccine isn’t all that reliable fighting the delta variant as expected. Yes vaccinated people have a less amount of chance of contracting Covid but I think it’s disingenuous to say that people who aren’t getting vaccinated are putting people in danger. It’s literally only harming the unvaccinated. Theoretically if you’re vaccinated you have nothing to worry about assumingly and should just let natural selection take care of the rest.

like I said don’t come on this thread with mess. Asking genuine and having an open debate is different from dismissing the vaccine all together
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
It drastically decreases you chance of getting it, how severe it is, and makes it much harder to transfer. There’s a reason 99% of deaths are unvaccinated people, but that will drop over time as the virus is allowed to mutate thanks to unvaccinated people.

Vaccines aren’t always pure immunity, but in cases like this antibodies fade over time, so it’s important people get vaccinated so the virus can go away, and we don’t need extra booster shots and people can stop dying.
 

Zora

perpetually tired
If the vaccine doesn’t actually stop people from getting it, doesn’t prevent you from dying from it completely or transmitting it why exactly is there a push?
The vaccine decreases the likelihood you get COVID significantly, likelihood of illness and serious complications if infected, and significantly decreases transmission. These are all good things. Also, most vaccines do not offer sterilizing immunity; the fact it's not 100% protection isn't the deep observation you think it is.

It's the difference between following traffic laws while driving vs driving twice the speed limit down the freeway against the flow of traffic. Yes, in both cases you *can* get into a traffic accident, but the fatality and likelihood of said car accident are night and day.

Theoretically even if herd immunity was achieved we would still have the possibility of transmitting Covid to other people. Vaccines don’t stop viruses from mutating and news reports have even admitted that the vaccine isn’t all that reliable fighting the delta variant as expected.

Yes, we'll probably need booster shots, but even against delta, mRNA vaccines have 80% to 90% efficacy; that is much better than most vaccines. This makes about much sense as saying "why get the flu shot this year when I need to again next year." needing a regular shot does not mean the shot you get today is useless at all.

Yes vaccinated people have a less amount of chance of contracting Covid but I think it’s disingenuous to say that people who aren’t getting vaccinated are putting people in danger
no, it's not disingenuous at all and this statement contradicts epidemiology 101: The less people who are are infected with the virus and more people who can't be (read: are significantly less likely to be) infected with the virus, the less newly infected cases there are overall.

Visuals say much more than words do, pay attention to 10:40 in particular:

What's shown is a toy model, but even when accounting for breakthrough infections, the basic result is the same: vaccination reduces the rate of infection for everyone, with disproportionately better gains as vaccination rate approaches 1.

It’s literally only harming the unvaccinated. Theoretically if you’re vaccinated you have nothing to worry about assumingly and should just let natural selection take care of the rest.
a.) Not everyone can be vaccinated, e.g. because they're immunocompromised, under 12, or their country does not have access to vaccines. The only solution those unvaccinated people have is hoping people who can get vaccinated do. People not getting vaccinated (but can) are the people putting necessarily unvaccinated folks in danger.
b.) Barring specific medical conditions, being told to vaccinate isn't "harm" in any meaningful sense of the word.
 
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bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Even if everyone isn’t immune to a disease it can still be contained if it’s not spread. Things like the Plague and TB exist today, but they’re so hard to get because of good herd immunity, which in the case of Covid is only possible with vaccines unless you want way more death
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Before this gets started do not come here saying I’m anti vax because my work offered it way before it was even out to the public and a lot of family are vaccinated.
Just from reading this sentence, I could tell you're anti-vaxx. It doesn't matter if your work offered it or that your family took it, if you didn't get it yourself and you're making baseless claims about its efficacy, you're anti-vaxx.

If you actually want to learn something about the vaccine and the myths surrounding it, watch this video:
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
Before this gets started do not come here saying I’m anti vax because my work offered it way before it was even out to the public and a lot of family are vaccinated.

With that being said the vaccine confuses me. If the vaccine doesn’t actually stop people from getting it, doesn’t prevent you from dying from it completely or transmitting it why exactly is there a push? Theoretically even if herd immunity was achieved we would still have the possibility of transmitting Covid to other people. Vaccines don’t stop viruses from mutating and news reports have even admitted that the vaccine isn’t all that reliable fighting the delta variant as expected. Yes vaccinated people have a less amount of chance of contracting Covid but I think it’s disingenuous to say that people who aren’t getting vaccinated are putting people in danger. It’s literally only harming the unvaccinated. Theoretically if you’re vaccinated you have nothing to worry about assumingly and should just let natural selection take care of the rest.

like I said don’t come on this thread with mess. Asking genuine and having an open debate is different from dismissing the vaccine all together

A huge issue - and a huge mistake by the CDC, notable medical professionals, and the American education system - is the failure to accurately explain and teach what a vaccine is and does:

A vaccine is not a cure, nor is it ever intended to be, because you cannot cure a virus. A vaccine is resistance treatment, designed to prevent the contraction, ailment, and transmission of a particular virus. Yes, the honest statement is no vaccine can guarantee prevention; however, the odds are high in your favor, as the human body is more efficient at fighting a virus than it is at fighting bacteria. Vaccines supply the body with a 'mimic' of sorts, a false copy of the virus to provoke a response in the body's immune system, causing it to build a resistance. Essentially, a vaccine teaches the body how to fight a virus.

Now, the immune system can respond in a number of ways, and this is why vaccines don't guarantee prevention. The immune system can react normally and trap the vaccine to subdue it, thus building resistance. It could trap the vaccine but do so with extreme measures, causing severe high fever. It could mistake the vaccine for another virus or alien illness and fight it the wrong, and it could ignore the vaccine altogether, failing to build resistance. And finally, in the worst case scenario, your immune system could accidentally kill you trying to subdue the vaccine, by causing reactions you cannot withstand.

Yes, the final scenario is scary, but it's also incredibly rare. Most people survive the vaccine and simply build a resistance. NOW, the most important factor to all of this, and the main reason getting vaccinated is critical, is the one piece of information never taught about a virus: Once you get a virus, you have it forever. You may not get sick now, but you can definitely get sick later, which means you can die from it later. Getting vaccinated can ensure no matter when the virus flares up, you are okay.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Think of the vaccine being similar to the one for the flu. It doesn’t make you immune to Covid but rather lessens the symptoms should you get it.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
I think it’s less teaching what the vaccine does, which while it could be better isn’t terrible on its own, but how bad they’ve been at fighting disinformation.

Granted it’s not exactly the easiest thing to do as well, with one major political party doing their best to push it, and in a way how do you convince someone who won’t get it after they read about someone’s balls exploding on Facebook.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
If I can offer any other helpful advice, it would be this: Don't listen to Nicki Minaj.
I never listened to her anyway. Taking advice from her is like taking advice from the puppet of Bullwinkle Moose when he told kids in the early 60s to literally rip off the knob that changed channels on their television sets so that they could watch the next new episode of Rocky and Bullwinkle. Kids actually went ahead and did that leading parents to complain about the damages their children caused all because they listened to a puppet. Nicki Minaj is basically doing the same thing and also confused symptoms of an STD with side effects of the vaccine and even the CDC called her out on her stupidity.

*edit* I found the Bullwinkle puppet clip to show what I mean that taking advice from Nicki is like listening to the “instructions” in the video.

 
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Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
I never listened to her anyway. Taking advice from her is like taking advice from the puppet of Bullwinkle Moose when he told kids in the early 60s to literally rip off the knob that changed channels on their television sets so that they could watch the next new episode of Rocky and Bullwinkle. Kids actually went ahead and did that leading parents to complain about the damages their children caused all because they listened to a puppet. Nicki Minaj is basically doing the same thing and also confused symptoms of an STD with side effects of the vaccine and even the CDC called her out on her stupidity.

*edit* I found the Bullwinkle puppet clip to show what I mean that taking advice from Nicki is like listening to the “instructions” in the video.

You're confusing an obvious joke that only stupid kids would fall for with terrible advice for and by idiots.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
You're confusing an obvious joke that only stupid kids would fall for with terrible advice for and by idiots.
As if the US doesn't need to be idiot-proofed to a degree for EXACTLY that reason.

We enable stupid in the name of FreeDumb.
 
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