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Racial and Class Bias in the Justice System

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator

Mordent99

Banned
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-from-police-then-staged-his-own-suicide.html

So in Illinois, there was a much-loved cop that went missing and was eventually found dead. Over 300,000 bucks was spent trying to find the guy, his killers, whatever. Of course, lots of conservatives blamed Black Lives Matter for it.

Not surprising. How many mentioned Al Sharpton and/or the Black Panthers? (Sorry, I mean that group pretending to be the Black Panthers who the surviving real ones have condemned.)

Conservative rants follow a familiar trend these days.
 

7 tyranitars

Well-Known Member
That's true. While police brutality affects black people more, it's happening everywhere, and it's everybody's problem. That's why being dismsissive of BlackLivesMatter is so dangerous in my opinion, all I can think of is pastor Niemollers poem "First they came" If you want to trivialize the collective cries of an entire group of people, that's your prerogative, but don't be shocked when the same things they were complaining about are suddenly on your doorstep.

Exactly, but the one thing I don't get is (and please understand I am not an American) is that they get upset when you say All lives matter. I watched a part of the democratic debate and they got asked the question Black lives matter, or all lives matter. Shouldn't Black lives matter simply because *all* lives matter? Why do they want to differentiate themselves so much? I can see they do it because they get a lot of discrimination. But there also a lot of other minorities that suffer but are simply smaller groups.
 

chalkus

Well-Known Member
I think in America there is not just a race problem, there is also a police problem. If compared to other western countries the police there seems to be trained to be far more violent. They seem to miss the skill to approach and calm down someone. I am refering to minor things like getting a ticket for speeding. I do realise that this seem to happen to minorities more often especially black people. But it could just be the case that it doesn't get in the news as often when it happens to other people. Point I am trying to make, this won't go away with simply attempting to solve the race problem, but also solve the overly violent way police officers use to interact with other people.

While there are cops who are hotheads and should not be in the force, you should also take into consideration that right now in America, there are more than 300 million guns floating around. So of course cops in America would act differently from cops in, say, Denmark, because the threat is greater. There have been plenty of cops who have had their faces blown off at the traffic stops you consider minor.

Exactly, but the one thing I don't get is (and please understand I am not an American) is that they get upset when you say All lives matter. I watched a part of the democratic debate and they got asked the question Black lives matter, or all lives matter. Shouldn't Black lives matter simply because *all* lives matter? Why do they want to differentiate themselves so much? I can see they do it because they get a lot of discrimination. But there also a lot of other minorities that suffer but are simply smaller groups.

I think All Lives Matter might have been a better name from the getgo, but I am fine with BLM. However, since BLM was founded, there are some individuals who use the ALM cry to disenfranchise and demean the BLM movement, hence the problem.
 
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7 tyranitars

Well-Known Member
While there are cops who are hotheads and should not be in the force, you should also take into consideration that right now in America, there are more than 300 million guns floating around. So of course cops in America would act differently from cops in, say, Denmark, because the threat is greater. There have been plenty of cops who have had their faces blown off at the traffic stops you consider minor.

Even that taken into account the force they use way to excessive.

I think All Lives Matter might have been a better name from the getgo, but I am fine with BLM. However, since BLM was founded, there are some individuals who use the ALM cry to disenfranchise and demean the BLM movement, hence the problem.

I see, well that makes sense, but from an outsiders (non American) point of view the name seems so wrong and only used to separate them from the rest of the population, even though the message is one that needs a lot of attention.

If all lives truly mattered, why was the 6-year-old boy who was shot and killed by two officers who were quickly charged...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/questions-swirl-around-fatal-shooting-louisiana-boy-n459611

while Tamir Rice's murders have yet to be charged?!

I have no idea who Tamir Rice is. And what I've read from this article the police officers had body cams so that would make it easier to prosecute them. I do not know if the police officers who murdered Tamir Rice had those.
 

Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
And speaking of which, no indictment for the cops who shot Tamir Rice! Bravo! Bravo! The prosecutor got what he exactly wanted!
 

Remix2

Well-Known Member
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And? its statistically known that black people commit more crimes... well over in the United Kingdom they do. I do not see thats not biased, they don't want the reputation, then don't commit the crime and police your own culture.
 

Bananarama

The light is coming
And? its statistically known that black people commit more crimes... well over in the United Kingdom they do. I do not see thats not biased, they don't want the reputation, then don't commit the crime and police your own culture.

Blaming all black people for crime is just like blaming all muslims for 9/11, or blaming all white people for the Holocaust. I'm sure most black people want to distance themselves from crime because they don't want to give their race a bad reputation. It's like that with all oppressed groups.

Also, where is your source?
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
And? its statistically known that black people commit more crimes... well over in the United Kingdom they do. I do not see thats not biased, they don't want the reputation, then don't commit the crime and police your own culture.

The UK Ministry of Justice's report from 2012 shows that Whites make up 79.5% of arrests.

In addition, the US FBI's report from 2014 shows that Whites make up 69.4% of arrests.

The statistics seem to suggest the exact opposite.
 
Crime Commissioner: Paul Condon - Chief Crime Commissioner for London Metropolitan Police Force - 1997

"Street Crime and muggings in the Capital are disproportionately committed by young black men"

It is not "racist" to think like that, its statistically true. Sure there are few people who arn't like that but there is in any culture. It does not help that Black culture that evolved in America has had a profound impact on gun culture and crime in both the United States and the United Kingdom. You only have to look to "role models" like Chris Brown who advocates beating woman and Kayne West who advocates that he is literally the messiah. In-fact I cannot think of one good Black role model for depraved working-class black Children, outside Lando Calrissian but even he was a Crook, thats how he got the Falcon. Even their music is about "guns", "heos" and "drugs" etc.

Successful Black Men will be shouted down by their own people for being "too white" or conformist and selling themselves out. I have actually seen it happen in the past. Muggings are a regular occurrence, so much so that its a crime that has become unfortunately tied to young black men. Stereotypes, as awful as they are... exist for a REASON.

KillerDraco, that is the WHOLE of the UK. Look at the crime figures in London, specifically the more depraved areas in London and you will see more correlation between Black and Paki men committing crimes then white people. Depends on the AREA. You can't look at the UK as a whole because they are all clustered in specific communities. I lived in Woolwich, London (Where Lee Rigby was killed)... I saw it happen... I KNOW. There was a stabbing and the occasional shooting every week.

And Black people ARN'T OPPRESSED, they haven't been Opressed for 200 years... just the opposite... you call them a "n****r" and you get arrested but if they say it to another black person, that is fine! How many times do we have to apologise to slavery? Seriously, try getting a job in London, if you are white and there is a black or muslim there... you might as well not bother because they will get it.
 
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Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
I... I don't know where to even begin... I mean, that is so ignorant of how you defined black culture in America as well as not understanding how police works in the US.

And not to mention, Tamir Rice didn't even commit a crime!
 
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Mordent99

Banned
And? its statistically known that black people commit more crimes... well over in the United Kingdom they do. I do not see thats not biased, they don't want the reputation, then don't commit the crime and police your own culture.

Yeah, that 12-year-old kid could really have hurt someone with that water pistol.

I'm being sarcastic, of course. There was once a time when cops who beat up kids at pool parties and class rooms, much like acted as "judge, jury and executioner" were considered dirty cops and thrown in jail, NOT justifiably doing their job.
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
you call them a "n****r" and you get arrested but if they say it to another black person, that is fine!

Arguably for good reason. That particular term does not have a happy history. The term was invented to be used as a pejorative by a majority against a minority in order to dehumanise, exclude and belittle them. It's very hard to see how use of that term by a white person towards a black person isn't extremely racist given that history. It's an issue of context.

Seriously, try getting a job in London, if you are white and there is a black or muslim there... you might as well not bother because they will get it.

With respect that claim seems to be relative conjecture. The evidence would point against it's accuracy:
 
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Tsunami16

Member
I don't think the US has a race problem. I think the US has a media problem. The media takes incredibly complex issues and tries to boil it down to one thing. The media tells us that, if a black man killed by a white cop, it has to be motivated by race. There's no other possible explanation. The problem is, things are never that simple. Could it be due to race? Yes. It could also be related to many other factors.

People must understand that media sources construct narratives and based their reporting and coverage on those narratives. I don't mean to say there is some conspiracy at work here; rather, news sources deliberately omit, downplay, or outright distort the facts on the ground to fit the story they want to tell. We see this every day in the political news, with both conservatives and liberals both selling a certain of view to the masses. The key word there is "sell." Media outlets exist to attract viewership, and they have to present stories that will get people's attention. Clickbait articles are the newest incarnation of this.

Are minorities being targeted by law enforcement? It's possible, but I don't know all the facts surrounding the issue. What I do know is that things are never as simple as black and white. There are always underlying issues and mitigating factors, but the media usually can't be bothered to acknowledge this. That's why I don't believe the problem is race. I work in an office with many African Americans, Caucasians, a Hispanic lady, a girl of Persian descent, and a Bulgarian national. Race has never factored into any of our interactions. Anytime someone rubs someone else the wrong way, no one brings race into it because it's not a race problem. It's an interpersonal problem brought on by how people treat each other instead of what country their ancestors were from.

The media makes these issues into racial conflicts because that gives them instant attention, plenty of room to sensationalize, and politicians play off of it to appeal to racial sensitivities within their voter base. We see this with religion all the time. It's the same song, only a different verse.

The sooner people demand that journalists actually research their stories and stop playing on sensationalist narratives to garner attention, the better off America will be. Too many people let these news stories whip them into a frenzy, whether it's racial, political, religious, or economic.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
You say that and then you see kids like Tamir Rice get gunned down without question and the cops don't even get charged.
 

Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
It doesn't mean systemic racism doesn't exist. Remember, minorities were given harsher sentences than whites on drug use charges and other crimes. It's how we have the biggest prison population in the world.
 
Racism is a word that is way overused in most respects, we live in an age where people are so over-eager to use the word to bash anyone who has a slightly negative view on immigration. The problem is simply that the world "racism" is overused while we pretend that racism and hate crime against white people doesn't exist.... which is does, people just ignore it.
 
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