Racial Profiling and Police Brutality

[LDSman]

To keep it brief, no indictment for Darren Wilson in regards to killing Michael Brown has been announced. Who didn't see that coming?

And for the record about Tamir Rice, he didn't point the BB gun at the officer. Not to mention that 911 call referred to him being on the swings. So basically, he got killed for something kids do which is play cops and robbers as well as perhaps trying to prove it is fake. But hey, that's what happens when you let a trigger happy rookie shoot as a first resort instead of last.

Last time I played Cops and Robbers, I wasn't using a realistic gun with the orange safety tip removed, nor was I involving anybody but my friends in the game. This kid was supposedly intentionally scaring other people in the park.

Amazing how this happens the same time a black woman gets 3 years in jail for firing a gun as a warning. America is already pretty disgusting about this stuff, since in states like Utah you're more likely to be killed by a cop than a criminal. Even worse is them blaming social media for making the case worse, when all it did was prevent this from being swept under the rug.

She got three years for firing at her ex and two kids. It wasn't a "warning shot." Parts of the media and various special interest groups keep calling it that. They also tried calling it "Stand your ground" but she left the argument to get a gun and then returned.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/1...marissa-alexander-that-people-think-are-true/

The three years was the original plea deal offered. Due to time already served, she has 65 days to go. She was smart. The case wasn't going to have a different outcome and she was facing 60 years rather than 20.

Here's the article about Utah.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/1842489-155/killings-by-utah-police-outpacing-gang?fullpage=1

Utah is remarkably low on the violence scale. And the article doesn't mention how many shootings were against criminals engaged in crimes. The police are often called to ongoing situations. Situations that can and sometimes do, turn deadly.

And police shootings only cover 15% of all homicides from that 4 year period. Sounds like a numbers game to me.

I don't know about the prosecutor, the guy didn't look like he made a hard decision judging from how he looked. I can see why people wanted a special prosecutor for the case.

So you wanted a show trial that would end the same way? If the evidence says it was self defense, then it wasn't a hard decision.

That a young man is dead because a cop shot him for no reason? Serial Killers have gotten peaceful arrests and this random kid gets shot dead?

No reason? You don't think that a large man attacking someone once and then coming back was a valid reason? Brown's blood was found 25 feet behind Brown. That indicates that he turned around and was coming back.

Social Media made it "worse" because it spread the word about this kind of cop brutality. It happens a lot, and all it does is get swept under the rug because the police are the ones with power. Several young black men have been shot dead by police for no reason at all this year alone, and with social media you can't hide this stuff from the general public like you could before.

Something being on the internet doesn't make it true. For example, the initial reporting was that Brown was shot in the back. Please show where this was true.

Yeah, wanting a cold blooded murderer punished instead of making off with 450k is really sad.

450K?

Wilson was the one who came over and confronted him first over nothing. He was unaware of the cigar incident, so he came over and abused his power.

Walking in the street is not nothing. As the officer was driving away, he noticed the cigar box and realized that these two might be the suspects he heard about over the radio.

If you shoot someone without proper reason that's about as cold blooded of a murder you can get. You only shoot to kill if your life, or someone elses, is in danger, and his clearly wasn't.

Your opinion is not sustained by the facts. Brown did assault Wilson and was coming back to try again even though Wilson had a gun pointed at Brown. You don't let a larger person get close enough to try to take your gun.

Also the whole prosecutor thing is basically "We found that we're not guilty of anything" anyway.

The grand jury made that call. This comes across as "I wanted a different verdict, so it's obviously bias."

Oh that's not all. How many cops have been killed in last year? FBI reports 27. But no clear data on innocent people killed by police. Don't you think that's odd?

First, you would have to define what you mean by "innocent."

What I'm pointing out is that the prosecutor never intended to make a case for an indictment against an officer since that he has close ties with the PD and had a father who was a cop killed by an African American man. That really screams impartial. I mean it's rare for a prosecutor to fail in winning an indictment.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

A lot of grand juries only get the evidence that the prosecutor is going to use to prove guilt. This grand jury got it all.

Edit: Those "peaceful protestors" have set 12 buildings on fire, destroyed various cars, attacked firefighters trying to fight the fires, attacked reporters for reporting on the looting and so on and so forth.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/11/24/Businesses-Burn-as-Anarchy-Reigns-in-Ferguson

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/2...oxnews/national+(Internal+-+US+Latest+-+Text)

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...-Hit-in-Head-by-Rock-While-On-Air-in-Ferguson

So far, there don't appear to be any serious injuries.

I think this brings up a good point.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...terested-in-Civil-Liberties-for-Darren-Wilson

And one comment I saw on social media: If they really believed that the police are racist murderers who will shot people for no reason, why are they throwing things at the police? Isn't that just giving the police a reason to fight back?

 

[bobjr]

She got three years for firing at her ex and two kids. It wasn't a "warning shot." Parts of the media and various special interest groups keep calling it that. They also tried calling it "Stand your ground" but she left the argument to get a gun and then returned.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/1...marissa-alexander-that-people-think-are-true/

The three years was the original plea deal offered. Due to time already served, she has 65 days to go. She was smart. The case wasn't going to have a different outcome and she was facing 60 years rather than 20.

Yeah, but it says something when someone gets 3 years for self defense when an actual murder doesn't get indited. Out of the last 162,000 cases gone to a grand jury, only 11 have not been indited.

So you wanted a show trial that would end the same way? If the evidence says it was self defense, then it wasn't a hard decision.

If you discredit all the witness testimony and pictures, but who cares about evidence if it comes from black people?

No reason? You don't think that a large man attacking someone once and then coming back was a valid reason? Brown's blood was found 25 feet behind Brown. That indicates that he turned around and was coming back.

Or he was running away. The "injuries" picture shows nothing serious happened to him outside of apparently not having a chin.

Something being on the internet doesn't make it true. For example, the initial reporting was that Brown was shot in the back. Please show where this was true.

Yeah, but sweeping it all under the rug and saying "Trust us to make a decision about us" is also a big "something is not true here" warning. There's always lies in big stories like this, and it sure isn't all on one side.

450K?

His supporters started a gofundme to help him out. It raised almost 450k before it ended, because humans again proved we evolved from the most savage monkeys.

Walking in the street is not nothing. As the officer was driving away, he noticed the cigar box and realized that these two might be the suspects he heard about over the radio.

The robbery happened weeks ago. Unless he was the one person in town who smoked those cigars that is the most fabricated story he could come up with.

Your opinion is not sustained by the facts. Brown did assault Wilson and was coming back to try again even though Wilson had a gun pointed at Brown. You don't let a larger person get close enough to try to take your gun.

The only testimony we're taking is from Wilson though, not from anyone else who took pictures. If I was in trouble for killing someone I would lie too.

The grand jury made that call. This comes across as "I wanted a different verdict, so it's obviously bias."

2 black men a week are killed by a white police officer. If he was indited, that would actually send a positive message.

First, you would have to define what you mean by "innocent."

Not deserving of the punishment he got.

Edit: Those "peaceful protestors" have set 12 buildings on fire, destroyed various cars, attacked firefighters trying to fight the fires, attacked reporters for reporting on the looting and so on and so forth.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/11/24/Businesses-Burn-as-Anarchy-Reigns-in-Ferguson

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/2...oxnews/national+(Internal+-+US+Latest+-+Text)

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...-Hit-in-Head-by-Rock-While-On-Air-in-Ferguson

So far, there don't appear to be any serious injuries.

I think this brings up a good point.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...terested-in-Civil-Liberties-for-Darren-Wilson

And one comment I saw on social media: If they really believed that the police are racist murderers who will shot people for no reason, why are they throwing things at the police? Isn't that just giving the police a reason to fight back?

They aren't showing the peaceful protestors because that doesn't make news. Only 9 people arrested are actually from the Ferguson area, the rest just want to riot and loot for the sake of it. They didn't care about the decision. Did they air the woman who died of a heart attack as she got tear gassed? I don't think so.

 

[LDSman]

Yeah, but it says something when someone gets 3 years for self defense when an actual murder doesn't get indited. Out of the last 162,000 cases gone to a grand jury, only 11 have not been indited.

It wasn't self defense. Read the Legal Insurrection link. Read the actual court documents. If Marissa had been male, the media would have skewered her for giving her ex a black eye after the arrest for attempting to shoot him.

If you discredit all the witness testimony and pictures, but who cares about evidence if it comes from black people?

Some of the witness testimony came from black people.

Edit: You'd think that a mod wouldn't be trying to provoke someone by going for the racism angle.

Or he was running away. The "injuries" picture shows nothing serious happened to him outside of apparently not having a chin.

Brown's blood was found on the ground 25 feet past where his body was. Edit: Plus how many times are you willing to let a person punch you in the face? Till you are dizzy? Concussed? Knocked out or knocked down?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Yeah, but sweeping it all under the rug and saying "Trust us to make a decision about us" is also a big "something is not true here" warning. There's always lies in big stories like this, and it sure isn't all on one side.

So far all the lies were on the Brown side. Gentle giant, shot in the back, etc.

His supporters started a gofundme to help him out. It raised almost 450k before it ended, because humans again proved we evolved from the most savage monkeys.

Random people on the internet started a gofundme account. Is there any proof that Wilson will get the money?

The robbery happened weeks ago. Unless he was the one person in town who smoked those cigars that is the most fabricated story he could come up with.

No it didn't. Some conspiracy people have claimed that the time stamp is a different month. It wasn't true.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/08/brown-was-a-robbery-suspect-cop-identified-in-ferguson/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ferguson-michael-brown-robbery-conspiracy-theory

Johnson, Brown's friend, has admitted to the robbery.

Heck, the dispatch call about the robbery suspect matches what Brown was wearing.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ferguson-michael-brown-robbery-conspiracy-theory

The only testimony we're taking is from Wilson though, not from anyone else who took pictures. If I was in trouble for killing someone I would lie too.

You'd lie if you were a murderer. Lying when it was self defense makes you look like a murderer.

2 black men a week are killed by a white police officer. If he was indited, that would actually send a positive message.

Link to this allegation? How many of these shootings are self defense?

Not deserving of the punishment he got.

That would be subjective. One person would say prison is too harsh for certain crimes, while other people would say not harsh enough.

They aren't showing the peaceful protestors because that doesn't make news. Only 9 people arrested are actually from the Ferguson area, the rest just want to riot and loot for the sake of it. They didn't care about the decision. Did they air the woman who died of a heart attack as she got tear gassed? I don't think so.

No true scotsman? I mean protestor. Is there proof of this heart attack? All I'm seeing are claims by a protestor.

Edit: And one person has been found shot and set on fire in the aftermath of last night's riots. So much for no fatalities.

 

[SILVER XD]

Brown did not do the right thing when confronted by the officer and acted poorly. However there was no pretense by which the dealt force of a firearm should have been used against him by the officer. When you're a police officer you have been trained to deal with assailants much more dangerous than a kid(almost a legal adult) who is using no deadly force, merely fists. There was no reason that Brown should have died and the officer should be given some sort of penalty, one more serious than paid leave.

The same goes for the death of the 12 year old. What he was doing was stupid(although all things I can see a child doing, as a kid my friends would cut off the orange rings at the ends of their air soft guns too) though clearly not deserving of the force used against him. When you shoot a 12 year old kid who wasn't doing anything illegal(except possibly harassment), you should have some sort of punishment put upon you.

These people rioting at the protests are purely idiots, they're doing nothing but making the situation worse and should be arrested.

 

[LDSman]

Brown did not do the right thing when confronted by the officer and acted poorly. However there was no pretense by which the dealt force of a firearm should have been used against him by the officer.

People can be beaten to death with fists and feet. A gun can be taken away by force and used against a person. Two reasons right there/

When you're a police officer you have been trained to deal with assailants much more dangerous than a kid(almost a legal adult) who is using no deadly force, merely fists.

Like what? Some sort of martial arts skills? Brown was a legal adult. He had completed high school and was heading to college.

There was no reason that Brown should have died and the officer should be given some sort of penalty, one more serious than paid leave.

Brown gave reason when he fought with the police officer over his gun and then refused to back down and comply when the officer pointed his gun at him.

The same goes for the death of the 12 year old. What he was doing was stupid(although all things I can see a child doing, as a kid my friends would cut off the orange rings at the ends of their air soft guns too) though clearly not deserving of the force used against him. When you shoot a 12 year old kid who wasn't doing anything illegal(except possibly harassment), you should have some sort of punishment put upon you.

Cutting off the safety tip is illegal. Brandishing a fake firearm at people who don't know it is fake is illegal. There are child killers out there. How is an officer supposed to know which is which? The kid should have put his hands up instead of pulling the gun out of his waist band.

Edit: Referring back to the link on the Utah criminal/police shooting. A few points.

1. conflates homicide with justified homicide.
2. of the 15 police shootings, only 1/15 was legally questionable.
3. The only reason they can get this statistical blip is that the Utah murder rate is so incredibly low that our police shootings actually make a dent.
4. Correlation/Causation I think the Trib accidentally makes the point that because Utah is willing to shoot criminals, they have a super low enough crime rate that as a result, the shooting of criminals actually shows up.
5. This stat is irrelevant unless compared to the number of arrests made where people weren't shot. Most of the Utah cops show plenty of discretion, considering in this same time frame cops were murdered, and their killers were taken into custody without being shot.

 

[Silver Soul]

Say LDSMan, you know there's always a civil lawsuit? Remember August when Protesters' constitutional rights were violated that time and brutality?

Also, you guys seriously think the kid would shoot an officer?

 

[LDSman]

Say LDSMan, you know there's always a civil lawsuit? Remember August when Protesters' constitutional rights were violated that time and brutality?

Also, you guys seriously think the kid would shoot an officer?

Good chance Wilson will win a civil lawsuit as well.

I think that there are dangerous people out there and that assuming a kid is not dangerous is a risk. A bigger risk if the kid might be armed with a real gun.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/alyssa_bustamante/1.html
http://www.waff.com/story/27189946/teen-gang-member-seeks-youthful-offender-status-in-murder-case

How old are some gang members?

Edit:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/0...on-murder-charge-in-death-12-year-old-friend/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...old-Wisconsin-girls-stab-friend-19-times.html

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/05/31/did-12-year-old-commit-perfect-murder

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/201...harged-with-criminal-intent-to-commit-murder/

All links to children about that age.

 

[Silver Soul]

Darren Wilson? Try the Ferguson and St. Louis County PD for civil rights violations!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/justice/ferguson-police-lawsuit/

It's funny that you didn't point out the prosecutor acting as a defense attorney. You know, not questioning Darren Wilson for inconsistencies in his testimony.

Also, seriously? You know the officer was in the range to taser him correct? Not to mention that the kid himself was on the swings when the 911 call happened and that the gun was probably fake hence he didn't shoot somebody by then.

 

[LDSman]

Darren Wilson? Try the Ferguson PD for civil rights violations!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/justice/ferguson-police-lawsuit/

It's funny that you didn't point out the prosecutor acting as a defense attorney. You know, not questioning Darren Wilson for inconsistencies in his testimony.

$40 million? Good luck with that.


What inconsistencies?

Did the officer have a taser? Did he have it out and ready? Probably fake does not equal definitely fake. Ever consider a cop might be a target? You seem to be stuck on "it was a kid" and I've linked to plenty of cases of killer kids as a reason to not assume anything.

 

[Silver Soul]

Darren Wilson wasn't cross-examined thoroughly due to saying things like Michael Brown was like a demon and going like Hulk Hogan, asking softball questions as this CNN legal analyst noted. Oh and worth noting, a medical examiner's camera ran out of battery so there was no pics of Mike Brown's body. Hm...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/...oys-darren-wilsons-testimony/comments/#disqus

And I realized something, you answered my rhetorical question. Bravo. And so you were saying that the rookie cop should have NOT safely apprehend him unlike actual killers? Is that what were you saying?

 

[LDSman]

Darren Wilson wasn't cross-examined thoroughly due to saying things like Michael Brown was like a demon and going like Hulk Hogan, asking softball questions as this CNN legal analyst noted. Oh and worth noting, a medical examiner's camera ran out of battery so there was no pics of Mike Brown's body. Hm...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/...oys-darren-wilsons-testimony/comments/#disqus

Ah, an opinion piece. She doesn't actually point out inconsistencies. She calls it fanciful and not credible. She points out things she thinks are discrepancies like Wilson saying he thought that a third blow might prove fatal and the injuries (in her opinion) don't look that bad. Her opinion, nothing more.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...-evidence-supported-cop-prosecutor-says-video

But his description of the evidence suggested that the jury saw the evidence and testimony supporting Wilson's self-defense claim as consistent and compelling. By contrast, he characterized eyewitness accounts that Mr. Brown had surrendered with hands up or was retreating when he was killed as contradictory, with some eyewitnesses changing their testimony over the course of the investigation.

McCulloch said that Wilson’s own testimony should not be given too much weight, since he was the target of the investigation. In response to a reporter’s question, McCulloch said that the most credible witnesses of the incident were “all African-American.”

And I realized something, you answered my rhetorical question. Bravo. And so you were saying that the rookie cop should have NOT safely apprehend him unlike actual killers? Is that what were you saying?

What? I'm not saying anything like what you are saying...I think. Your second sentence is a little hard to understand.

You said the officer was in taser range. I was asking if he had a taser? Was it out and ready? And a general safety rule is to treat things as real unless obviously fake.

A lot of this is armchair quarterbacking. Hindsight is always 20/20. People can look back on go "that gun was fake so the officer should have done something different." The officer at the time was on a call about a kid with a gun. Instead of putting his hands up, as directed by the police, he pulls a realistic looking gun out. Do you assume he is going to start shooting? Do you take the chance he isn't going to shoot?

 

[Carlisle]

So ashamed to be an American right now. The blatant racism I am seeing everywhere after last night is horrifying. It should serve as a reminder that this country is anything but equal.

 

[bobjr]

Just wait for after a big sports event when you see a bunch of white people riot and people will act like it's normal. I'm pretty sure they burned every car within 50 miles of Penn State when Joe Paterno got fired for defending a child molester.

 

[SILVER XD]

People can be beaten to death with fists and feet. A gun can be taken away by force and used against a person. Two reasons right there/


Like what? Some sort of martial arts skills? Brown was a legal adult. He had completed high school and was heading to college.

Brown gave reason when he fought with the police officer over his gun and then refused to back down and comply when the officer pointed his gun at him.

Cutting off the safety tip is illegal. Brandishing a fake firearm at people who don't know it is fake is illegal. There are child killers out there. How is an officer supposed to know which is which? The kid should have put his hands up instead of pulling the gun out of his waist band.

Edit: Referring back to the link on the Utah criminal/police shooting. A few points.

1. conflates homicide with justified homicide.
2. of the 15 police shootings, only 1/15 was legally questionable.
3. The only reason they can get this statistical blip is that the Utah murder rate is so incredibly low that our police shootings actually make a dent.
4. Correlation/Causation I think the Trib accidentally makes the point that because Utah is willing to shoot criminals, they have a super low enough crime rate that as a result, the shooting of criminals actually shows up.
5. This stat is irrelevant unless compared to the number of arrests made where people weren't shot. Most of the Utah cops show plenty of discretion, considering in this same time frame cops were murdered, and their killers were taken into custody without being shot.

If you're a police officer and you can be beaten to death by the fists of a random and untrained 17 year old then maybe you shouldn't be a police officer. The same goes for being disarmed. If you can't perform what your training actually prepared you to do then perhaps you shouldn't be in law enforcement.

Refusal to comply means that you should be put to death? A dumb 12 year old waving around a replica gun should be shot, then? "Cutting off the safety tip is illegal" you hear it here folks, you break the law in any way shape or form you are liable to be shot. "There are child killers out there" therefore we must assume that evey child is killer, correct? The dispatcher was even informed that the fun didnt appear to be real, a civilian could see that, why couldn't a trained officer?

My bottom line is that any law officer who kills an individual who isn't utilizing deadly force towards them or another individual needs to be given some form of punishment that isn't basically a vacation.

 

[LDSman]

Just wait for after a big sports event when you see a bunch of white people riot and people will act like it's normal. I'm pretty sure they burned every car within 50 miles of Penn State when Joe Paterno got fired for defending a child molester.

Nobody acts like it is normal for riots to happen after a sporting event. White or otherwise. Feel free to prove otherwise. Feel free to point out a sports riot where 12 buildings were set on fire, hundreds of shots fired, 25+ buildings looted, etc. And as far as Penn State?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/s...clashes-after-joe-paterno-is-ousted.html?_r=0
No mention of car fires here.

If you're a police officer and you can be beaten to death by the fists of a random and untrained 17 year old then maybe you shouldn't be a police officer. The same goes for being disarmed. If you can't perform what your training actually prepared you to do then perhaps you shouldn't be in law enforcement.

Once again. Brown was 18! Not 17. 18. He was 6.5 and almost 300 pounds. What training do you think this officer supposedly has? MMA? Kung-fu? Only a idiot willingly grapples with someone who is bigger and has attempted to take a weapon away once already.

Refusal to comply means that you should be put to death?

Don't try and strawman my statement. If you have what appears to be a gun and a police officer orders you to put your hands up, you don't pull the weapon out. The officer doesn't know it isn't real.

A dumb 12 year old waving around a replica gun should be shot, then?

Any dumb idiot waving a realistic replica gun around runs the risk of being shot. Why do you think they added those tips in the first place?

"Cutting off the safety tip is illegal" you hear it here folks, you break the law in any way shape or form you are liable to be shot.

And another strawman. Why are the tips orange in the first place? So that people know its fake. Why? Because people react negatively to someone pointing what looks like a real gun at them.

"There are child killers out there" therefore we must assume that evey child is killer, correct?

You don't have to assume that every child is a killer. You should be a lot more cautious if there are reports of a child with a gun. Being a child doesn't automatically make them safe.

The dispatcher was even informed that the fun didnt appear to be real, a civilian could see that, why couldn't a trained officer?

Because civilians can be wrong? The key word was "might." It might be fake also means it might be real.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/2...vivor-didnt-know-gun-was-real-until-was-shot/

My bottom line is that any law officer who kills an individual who isn't utilizing deadly force towards them or another individual needs to be given some form of punishment that isn't basically a vacation.

http://monsterhunternation.com/2014/11/25/the-legalities-of-shooting-people/

To be legally justified in using lethal force against somebody you need to meet the following criteria.
1.They have the Ability to cause you serious bodily harm.
2.They have the Opportunity to cause you serious bodily harm.
3.They are acting in a manner which suggests they are an Immediate Threat of serious bodily harm.

If your encounter fits these three criteria, then you are usually legally justified in using lethal force.

Ability just means that they have the power to hurt you. A gun or a knife can obviously cause serious bodily harm. However, a person does not need a weapon to seriously hurt you. Any blow to the head sufficient to render you unconscious or cause internal bleeding is sufficient to kill you.

Opportunity means that they can reach you with their ability. A hundred yards away with a gun, they can still hit you, so they have the opportunity. A hundred yards away with a knife, pipe, or chain, and they aren’t a danger to you. However, thirty feet away with a contact weapon is easily within range to cause most people serious bodily harm before they are capable of using a firearm to neutralize the threat. I’ll talk more about distances later.

Immediacy (often called Jeopardy) means that they are acting in a manner that suggests they intend to cause serious bodily harm right now. Somebody can have the ability and opportunity, but if a reasonable person wouldn’t believe that they are acting like a threat, then they aren’t one.

Tasers and pepper spray are not magic. Most people’s understanding of these tools comes from TV and TV isn’t reality. Tasers don’t knock you unconscious. They stream electricity through your body which causes your muscles to lock up for a moment, and if the circuit ends (the tiny wires break or the barbs fall out) then you are back to normal and it is game on. (and I’m talking about air tasers, the little stun guns or “drive tasers” are useless toys. They feel like being pinched with a red hot pair of pliers, which sucks, but if you’re tough enough you can play tag with the damned things). Pepper spray hurts and makes it hard to see and breathe, but you can build up a resistance to it (ask anybody in prison) and it can also bounce back on the user. In reality these tools work sometimes and sometimes they don’t. You’ll note that when you see cops dealing with actual violent types and they use the less lethal tools, there is usually cop #2 standing there with a real gun in case Plan A doesn’t work.

If you try to wrestle away a cop’s gun, that demonstrates Ability, Opportunity, and Immediacy, because right after you get ahold of that firearm, the reasonable assumption is going to be that you’re intending to use it. If you fight a cop, and he thinks you’re going to lethal force, he’s going to repeatedly place bullets into your center of mass until you quit.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/11/ferguson-fraud-113178.html

 

[Peter Quill]

There are four things you need to prove in order to claim that it's self defence:

1. You must use force to protect yourself when in danger of serious injury or death.
2. Unless you are in your own house, you must retreat if possible before resorting to force.
3. You must show that you did not start the altercation.
4. Finally, you can’t use more force than necessary to stop an unprovoked attack.

It's been proven time and time again that Mike Brown was unarmed, but I'll be nice and give the first point away because I'm generous. The second point is null. Darren Wilson DID NOT need to step out of the car. He could have easily retreated. Third point is null, he is the one who started the altercation. Finally, the last four shots were not necessary. Full Stop.

Darren Wilson should have at least gone to trial and Bob McCulloch is a joke of a prosecutor who protected the accused and should be disbarred immediately.

 

[LDSman]

There are four things you need to prove in order to claim that it's self defence:


[1]You must use force to protect yourself when in danger of serious injury or death.

You don't believe that Brown wasn't going to seriously injure or kill the officer? Based on what?

[2]Unless you are in your own house, you must retreat if possible before resorting to force.

This does not apply to on duty police officers and even varies from state to state. Missouri is not one of the "Retreat" states.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Missouri-Gun-Laws.htm

[3]You must show that you did not start the altercation.

Brown is the one who started fighting with the police officer.

[4]Finally, you can’t use more force than necessary to stop an unprovoked attack.

Brown escalated to lethal force when he attempted to take the officer's weapon. When he continued to advance on the officer he displayed intent to keep trying to exercise lethal force.

It's been proven time and time again that Mike Brown was unarmed, but I'll be nice and give the first point away because I'm generous

. How nice. Would you like links to stats on people being beaten to death with bare hands? Or fights where a suspect took an officer's gun and used it to kill the officer?

The second point is null. Darren Wilson DID NOT need to step out of the car. He could have easily retreated.

Police officer. It's his job to stop criminals. Brown could have kept running or even surrendered. He did neither.

Third point is null, he is the one who started the altercation.

Based on what? Doing his job?

Finally, the last four shots were not necessary. Full Stop.

Your opinion. A large man has just fought with you over your gun and then ran and is now coming back. Despite the fact you have a gun pointed at him, he is still advancing on you. You believe he intends to kill you. He is not complying with demands to halt. He is about 30 feet from you. Numerous studies show that an average person can cover 21 feet in a second and a half. You can't turn and run because he can reach you before you can start to run.

Darren Wilson should have at least gone to trial and Bob McCulloch is a joke of a prosecutor who protected the accused and should be disbarred immediately.

There were a number of African American witness with testimonies that matched the officers. The evidence matched that testimony. A number of the witnesses against Wilson changed their stories, saw things that didn't happen (shot in the back), etc. If a grand jury wouldn't indict, why would a jury at a trial? The defense would tear apart all the contradictions of the Brown supporters.

It would be a show trial, nothing more. Show trials aren't justice.

 

[bobjr]

It's almost like this is Rodney King all over again, and that showed nothing but that cops were corrupt and racist.

 

[Navin]

Is there racism in America? Yes (though in a place like Ann Arbor you would never know). I'm brown; my family and I have had comments thrown at us before especially post 9/11; it certainly exists. Was this shooting an example of it? Dunno, but the media has fueled the fire to this incident, just like it did with Trayvon Martin.

What annoyed me though was how everybody on my Facebook and Twitter became social justice warriors and/or legal experts after the grand jury decision when majority of them I bet don't even have a complete understanding of all the facts. Also, people seem to forget that this 6'4 300lb dude walked into a shop and stole cigars while assaulting the store clerk, and likely resisted arrest from an officer. Of course he did not deserve to die, and it doesn't justify any possible wrongdoing from Wilson's part. Yet for all this talk about racism, the entire incident would have been avoided if this 'gentle giant' thought better to not rob a convenience store.

 

[bobjr]

Officer Wilson didn't know he was the cigar store thief though. He shouldn't have robbed the convenience store, but even if he didn't what would have changed?