• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Racial Profiling and Police Brutality

LDSman

Well-Known Member
So basically, an NYPD cop broke his own rules by illegally choking Eric Garner to death all over allegedly selling individual cigarettes despite shouting that he can't breathe. It was all caught on video and it was ruled by the medical examiner as a homicide. And how does the Grand Jury responds? NO INDICTMENT! Oh Staten Island, may God have mercy on your souls.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/n...land-chokehold-death-of-eric-garner.html?_r=0

You keep using the word "illegal." The chokehold was not illegal. It was not against the law. It was against department policy. There is a difference.

And a homicide ruling only means that his death was caused by another person. Not that it was a murder.

Self defense cases are ruled homicides because the person defending themselves caused the death of the subject. They aren't prosecuted as murders. Suicide, accidental, homicide, natural and unknown are the 5 standard rulings.

The officer still faces punishment from his department and if the family sues him, he will probably lose.

Edit: I was surprised. I thought that they would go for manslaughter in the second. Call the chokehold reckless or something. I hope to see more information on why this wasn't set to trial when it really should have been.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/12/...cop-who-used-chokehold-in-eric-garners-death/
 
Last edited:

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Choking someone to death is probably the most intent to kill death there is, because you have to keep choking until the person is dead as a conscious choice. That and if choking is against the police rules, then he should be held accountable by the law, because the police shouldn't be able to protect him if he doesn't follow the blatantly obvious rule.

Them inditing the guy filming the murder is almost hilarious because of how fucked up it is.


https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...dge-never-allowed-recording-as-evidence.shtml

Also according to the courts now cop testimony is better than video evidence anyway.
 
Last edited:

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Choking someone to death is probably the most intent to kill death there is, because you have to keep choking until the person is dead as a conscious choice. That and if choking is against the police rules, then he should be held accountable by the law, because the police shouldn't be able to protect him if he doesn't follow the blatantly obvious rule.
Watch the video. It's in the link SS provided. At the 1 minute mark you can clearly see that the officer who had Garner in the chokehold no longer has him in the hold. He was not choked until he was dead.


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...d-homicide-medical-examiner-article-1.1888808
The autopsy determined the victim’s asthma, obesity and high blood pressure were also contributing factors in his death
His bad health didn't help matters.
Them inditing the guy filming the murder is almost hilarious because of how fucked up it is.
Link?


https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...dge-never-allowed-recording-as-evidence.shtml

Also according to the courts now cop testimony is better than video evidence anyway.
What does this have to do with Garner?
 
Last edited:

Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
An illegal chokehold is still illegal. Of course the cop didn't even get indicted by the Grand Jury because it's Staten Island. You can talk about progressive NYC but Staten Island is a different story.
 

Craig T

Banned
There was no need to put Garner in a choke hold period. Excessive force was unsurprisingly used again by the police, and the same system supporting the police decides he hasn't done anything wrong. Not shocking at all.
 

The Admiral

the star of the masquerade
Apparently De Blasio said that he's going to see to it that cops wear body cameras.

Which sounds great, but didn't Darrien Hunt's murderer have a body camera that he turned off?
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Apparently De Blasio said that he's going to see to it that cops wear body cameras.

Which sounds great, but didn't Darrien Hunt's murderer have a body camera that he turned off?

Asked and answered way back on the 21st.

http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/st...death-of-darrien/16998/fvRTnHKl7kmSQjPVq_eDsg

New equipment being tested. Poor battery life meant the officers would turn them off when not using them and since it was new equipment, weren't in the habit of turning it on all the time. Plus there is information that would indicate a suicidal person.

Edit:

New information on the officer who shot Rice.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_officer_who_s.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Why was this officer a cop? Emotional problems and a gun don't mix! Did he somehow make a radical change from his Independence days?

Yes I do change my mind if presented with proper evidence. Rice is looking more like police incompetence.

Edit: Back to Brown

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/12/211...ntent=conservativedaily&utm_campaign=Ferguson

Check out the second image. The correction to the PBS chart.
 
Last edited:

LDSman

Well-Known Member
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/12/03/actual-facts-Eric-Garner

The media refers to what happened to Garner as a "chokehold." It was not a chokehold. It was a submission hold.

The “Chokehold.” At issue in this case is the so-called “chokehold” used by Pantaleo. Chokeholds have been banned by the NYPD entirely since 1993; chokeholds are typically defined as holds that prevent people from breathing. Thanks to the video showing Garner stating that he cannot breathe, many pundits have wrongly suggested that Pantaleo was “choking” Garner by depriving him of air from his windpipe. Bratton himself suggested that Pantaleo used a “chokehold,” which is defined by the NYPD as “any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.”





That does not appear to have been the case. Garner did not die of asphyxiation, as the head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association noted at the time. The preliminary autopsy showed no damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones.





So what was Pantaleo doing? He was applying a submission hold, which is not barred by the NYPD, and is designed to deprive the brain of oxygen by stopping blood flow through the arteries. So say the experts on submission holds.


It appears that the so-called chokehold was instrumental in triggering Garner’s pre-existing health problems and causing his death, but Garner was not choked to death, as the media seems to maintain. According to Garner’s friends, he “had several health issues: diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma so severe that he had to quit his job as a horticulturist for the city’s parks department. He wheezed when he talked and could not walk a block without resting, they said.”

This was an interesting video on submission techniques taught to police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nql1xRtWKOU

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...l-oreilly-pulls-out-some-damaging-statistics/

O’Reilly then pulled out two statistics that seemingly hurt Smiley’s allegations that police officers are indiscriminately targeting black people.

“Do you know how many blacks were killed by police by gunfire last year?” O’Reilly asked.

“Off the top of my head, I don’t,” Smiley replied.

“The number is 123,” O’Reilly said. “Do you know how many whites were killed? 326.”

“There are 43 million-plus black Americans — 123 were killed by police gunfire,” he continued. “There isn’t an epidemic of this. … But when it happens it’s extremely troubling.”

When a stunned Smiley asked O’Reilly if he really doesn’t see a “pattern” on the issue, the Fox News host replied, “I don’t because the statistics don’t say there’s a pattern.”

“Again, 123 deaths out of 43 million-plus is minuscule — every death is a tragedy, I’m with you,” he added. “Three times as many whites are shot by police than blacks. I don’t think it’s hunting down blacks.”

Every shooting is different. Were the suspects armed? What was happening? Etc.
 
Maybe this will get TFP to shutup and stop throwing a temper tantrum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsTEJiR4FSc

Short and to the point, highlights the major problems with not getting an indictment in this case. The big part being that the grand jury didn't even have any business listening to Darren Wilson's testimony. That's not how grand jury's actually work, and this case is completely unprecedented.

Or the fact that the grand jury was instructed to make their decision based on a law ruled unconstitutional in 1985.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/11/how-robert-mcculloch-hoodwinked-ferguson

That's just skimming the surface though, really.

I think it's hilarious you're busy getting your panties in a twist about bias and what not when information like this is widely available and circulated. If you were in the least bit interested in getting to the truth of the matter, in actually understanding why people are so outraged about this, you wouldn't need someone else on a pokemon forum to do a ten second google search for you. You'll have to forgive us if we don't feel like engaging in a point for point style debate with someone who isn't even privy to the facts. Facts are stubborn things.

Cool. Someone wants a source for the claim that the prosecutor profited off of T-shirts? A source is presented by someone else saying this is an urban legend. You change the subject and indicate that much of what you've said is common knowledge, citing Youtube and Crooks and Liars.

You say the Grand Jury didn't have any business listening to Darren Wilson. This author disagrees:

While it's true that most grand juries serve as a rubber stamp for prosecutors, what so many seem to be ignoring is that in most cases where a prosecutor has doubts or lacks faith in the case, she or he doesn't present the case to a grand jury at all. Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch was under no obligation to present the case to any grand jury. As many prosecutors, particularly in police shooting cases, have done before him, he could have simply determined there was insufficient evidence to take the case to trial and ended it there. Typically, if a prosecutor reviews all the evidence and becomes convinced she/he doesn't have a solid case, the case concludes with no charge and no grand jury ever reviews the case.

I wouldn't presume to know exactly what Mr. McCulloch thought when he began the process, but I would not be surprised to learn that he had doubts about the evidence against Officer Wilson but felt pressure to have an objective body review the evidence so he did not have to assume the responsibility for such a monumental and controversial decision himself. If true, that is not a scandal but rather exactly what one would hope a prosecutor in his shoes would do.

Now, that does not mean this prosecutor did not control how the evidence was presented to the grand jury. He did. But after reading through the grand jury material, it seems it was the evidence, not how it was presented, that likely swayed the grand jurors. Whatever one thinks about what really happened or how the process should have unfolded, the fact that we learned that the blood evidence matched up with Officer Wilson's account of Michael Brown coming at him and that some of the key eyewitnesses offering damning testimony against Officer Wilson contradicted the physical evidence, would have made it a herculean task to win a conviction against Officer Wilson.


For crying out loud, even this guy who gives a rather harsh position slips up and says that the decision to let Wilson testify is "practically unheard of".

Also compare this New York Times page. (If there's not much there, try refreshing the page.) It has a chart that indicates that it is not typical for the prosecutor to allow the accused to testify. If a source like the New York Times knew of some law that said the prosecutor was not allowed to let him testify, they would certainly have mentioned that.


That NYT article also mentions some of the different places Brown's blood was found, including on Officer Wilson's gun and clothing, and on the ground 25 feet from where Brown's body ended up.


But surely these points I raise are just "debating style" because I'm not privy to all the facts!
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Remember that time Bill O'Reily told a black professor he looked like a pimp? Or how he doesn't believe it's harder for a black man to succeed in America? He's the last person I want talking about race issues.
 

Sheepy Lamby

Well-Known Member

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Yes, Fox News, the place that tells white people "The poors and minorities are out to get you!" is the place to get reasonable race discussion.
 

The Admiral

the star of the masquerade
Yes, Fox News, the place that tells white people "The poors and minorities are out to get you!" is the place to get reasonable race discussion.

From what I'm told, at least, O'Reilly recognizes that what happened to Garner was messed-up.

Then again, that may just be because there is actual footage of him being strangled to death that we know 100% is, indeed, Eric Garner being strangled to death.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Well even Nancy Grace had some words to say. Then again she was a prosecutor herself, so the lack of professionalism might have offended her.
 

Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
Holy S***! Federal investigations report that Cleveland PD have patterns of systematic brutality in regards to inadequate training and just plain incompetence. We are giving militarized equipment to THESE people?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/cleveland-police-doj_n_6270220.html

So, the NYPD's union called the officer who choked Eric Garner an Eagle Scout despite violating NYPD's own rule. You know, the same "Eagle Scout" who falsely arrested and strip searched two years ago! So yeah, not helping your case.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/chokehold-accused-improper-strip-search-article-1.1878104

Also St. Louis PD had made quite insensitive remarks about Tamir Rice's death in regards to "Kids with be kids". So basically... It's the kid's fault and not the unfit guy who shot him in 2 seconds.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/st-louis-officer-explains-kids-will-be-kids-post-about-tamir-rice/
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Well with military equipment America already spends way too much money in that regard, Police just get the surplus a lot of the time. Granted, that's a whole different issue.
 

VIA

<<< Recent Shiny
My opinion on Michael Brown and Darren Wilson is this..


A while ago a cop told me a story about how a friend saw a girl who was on probation going into a London Drugs. She was not aloud in there. He decided to arrest her. In response she pulled a dirt needle on him and waved it as him as a threat. They got her to put it away and she ran when a cop tackled her later she stabbed him with a blade. You know what they didnt do? Shot her or put her in a choke hold they managed to subdue her without the use of excessive force. While this girl was probably 130 pounds she actually had weapons unlike the latter. Michael Brown shouldve not been shot after the fourth bullet( which he wouldve survived) and Eric Garner didnt do squat. There are other ways to subdue him. If they had used a taser and he had still died due to health issues I dont think this would get the attention it did but because he was put in a choke hold and the officer made the choice to choke him he shouldve atleast been charged with manslaughter.
 

Sheepy Lamby

Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Top