Rain stall peak #12 PO DW OU

[garchompmaster29]

;178;Hello Serebii Forums! It has been QUITE a while since I have posted on these forums . And while stuck outside in the cold for 8 hours with nothing but a computer, an outlet, and weak internet access while waiting for my dad get out of his meeting and pick me up, I remembered Serebii.

So I am returning to the forums to post an RMT for my full rain stall that peaked #12 [1536] on PO DW OU.;178;

Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef - Atk)
- Scald
- Toxic
- Rest
- Encore

Politoed starts my team off setting up the much needed rain. While it is not 100% imperative that rain constantly be up, it is a huge plus. A pretty standard Politoed, evs to maximize spD (216 is the highest spD ev # that gives a +2 stat boost to due to nature), and the remaining evs went into defense. Scald gives you a double stab option that has a nice burn chance. Toxic for status. Encore is amazing for stopping set up sweepers and incapacitating most substitute Pokémon. Recently, I have put Rest>Protect because I have added a heal beller to the team, this lets Politoed recover all of his HP, while not having to endure the 2 turn recovery.

Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def - Spa)
-Spikes
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip
-Thunder Wave

This is my teams defensive wall, while at the same time retaining a still quite high special defense stat. Overused he may be, and ordinarily I would use Skarmory over him for the reliable recovery and phasing move, but that would give my team 4 electric weaknesses which would not be a good thing. I run a more physically based set because this is my team's dedicated physical wall. While walling various things, he can lay down spikes to put pressure on my opponent and cause residual damage each turn. Leech seed is a nice recovery move that can slowly drain away opponents' HP. Power whip is my most reliable STAB move with a nice 120 base power. However unlike gyro ball, it has 16 pp, and doesn't rely on you fighting a fast Pokemon. Thunder wave goes into the last slot to stop sweepers and help my team out speed Pokémon unfortunate enough to be hit by it.

Stanley (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Def / 208 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, - Atk)
- Softboiled
- Wish
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss

This is Chansey, easily the most important member of my team. She has more special bulk than Blissey, and more physical bulk than Swampert. Softboiled is your most reliable form of recovery, and even with wish, I find it more reliable than protect. Especially since she does not get leftovers recovery. Wish lets me pass massive HP recovery to my Pokémon and keep the stall train going. Stealth rock is a nice move to fit on Chansey so that you don't have to put it on someone else. Chansey finds multiple opportunities to set it up, and to be quite honest, with Tentacruel on the team, I don't really miss toxic. Seismic toss is you only reliable means of damage so it's a non-negotiable.

Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
Evs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Def
Calm Nature (+SDef - Atk)
Recover
Wil-O-Wisp
Scald
Shadow Ball

Due to TripleZ's idea, I have implemented Jellicent as a spin blocker into this team. I would have loved to use a non-electric weak one, but Jellicent is the only one with reliable recovery, and has amazing typing with adequate stats. It is also the easiest to switch into Starmie and opposing Tentacruel. Jellicent also adds a water absorber, and fighting immunity to my team which is quite nifty. The set is fairly standard, go to smogon for an explanation. I made up for re-adding a 3rd electric weakness, by providing an additional electric resister to my team as you will see later on.

Tentacruel (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, - Atk)
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Protect

Tentacruel is one of those tried and true stall Pokémon, further buffed this generation with rain dish and scald. The evs allow him to take advantage of his massive special bulk, while at the same time allowing him to take a physical hit in the case that I really need to get a rapid spin in. I have tried 252/252 Calm, but I continued to lose matches because I could not get an emergency spin in against a physical attacker. Scald is for double STAB damage + burn chance. Rapid spin for removing entry hazards I manage to let down. Protect gives me 12.5 extra % recovery if I need to giving me the equivalent of 25% hp recovery per turn. Toxic spikes allow me to poison non steel/flying/poison Pokemon when they switch in. I usually just go for 1 layer of T-spikes as it takes 4 turns for bad poisoning to outdo the damage of regular poisoning, and my team is based upon walling all of my opponents Pokemon and forcing them to either constantly switch, or die. However if i see that my Pokemon has a more defensive type team then I lay both layers of T-spikes down so that their bulky Pokemon will be forced to switch out so as to not take more and more damage.

My most recent addition:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Heal Bell
- Rest
- Seed Bomb
- U-turn

I added Celebi to my team for a multiplicity of reasons. For one, its good defensive stats, and more than reliable recovery in Rest + natural cure, heal bell, grass and electric resistances, and relatively high offensive stats make it a great team addition. Heal bell is VERY crucial for my team, especially when facing opposing stall or semi stall. It also lets me run rest on my Politoed with out the nasty 3 turn sleep. This makes it much easier to fight opposing weather as well. Rest is amazing, and I find it far superior to recover, as it recovers your health, and heals status should you chose to stay in. Seed Bomb is a strong STAB move. I use it over giga drain because all but 1 other Pokemon on my team are special attackers, and as such I though it is nice to have a physical attacker. U-turn lets me scout, and keeps the momentum in my favor (what little momentum stall has). It's also a nasty surprise for incoming Tyranitar, and I can just switch to Politoed and turn the weather back in my favor.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read this RMT, feel free to rate or criticize, and if you like, you can use the team yourself. It just requires A LOT of patience, and should not be attempted if you do not know how to play stall.

 

[Triple Z]

Welcome back to sppf, great team ya got there!

The only things I'd add are that two recovery moves on Chansey is just silly, I'd drop softboiled for protect (couples nicely with wish). You could put toxic, I suppose, but thanks to Tentacruel's Toxic Spikes, I don't think that's stictly neccessary.

Finally, your team would benefit greatly from a spin blocker, as your team packs a full set of hazards. Jellicent would be a good option. I'd probably relpace it with Xatu. Tentacruel's rapid spin deals with hazards.

 

[garchompmaster29]

Very interesting thoughts. On the Chanset thing, the reason I do not run protect is because there are many times that I need to recover immediately, and if I try to wish and then protect, it gives my opponent a chance to set up. Now if it were a Blissey I would consider it because you also get additional leftovers recovery, but trust me, I have tried protect and it is inferior (in my experience) to softboiled.

Now you did have an excellent point on the spin blocker thing. I'm not 100% keen on replacing Xatu with jelly becasue at that point who stops Breloom? Chansey, Ferro, Jelly, and Politoed are all OHKOd, Tentacruel can live 1 hit, but not if that hit comes from a Breloom that has Swords Danced on my switch. All you have left is Gothetelle, and If the Breloom is jolly, it outspeeds and kills her 40% of the time if he just gets 3 bullet seed hits, or 2 +1 crit. And if he holds a life orb, gets 4 or more hits (or 3 hits + a crit), or has stealth rocks down (which he might because I don't have Xatu anymore), then he will OHKO goth 100% of the time. So it is a very shaky way of stopping him.

I am VERY open to the idea of a spin blocker > Xatu, I just need one that can take down Breloom with ease and has some physical bulk. I will most certainly think about that.

Another option might be to keep Xatu, but replace Goth with a spin blocker that isn't weak to electric. That I will also ponder. Perhaps Gengar?

 

[Triple Z]

Very interesting thoughts. On the Chanset thing, the reason I do not run protect is because there are many times that I need to recover immediately, and if I try to wish and then protect, it gives my opponent a chance to set up. Now if it were a Blissey I would consider it because you also get additional leftovers recovery, but trust me, I have tried protect and it is inferior (in my experience) to softboiled.

Well, if you want immediate recovery then replace wish with toxic/protect/thunder wave. My point is that you don't need 2 recovery moves

I am VERY open to the idea of a spin blocker > Xatu, I just need one that can take down Breloom with ease and has some physical bulk. I will most certainly think about that.

Sounds like SubDisable Gengar is perfect. Substitute blocks spore, and it can disable Seed Bomb, making Breloom useless against it

 

[garchompmaster29]

Well, giving up wish is not an option, I simply must have the ability to heal the rest of my team. So what it comes down to is protect or softboiled. Protect lets me stay in once I have wished, but at the cost of giving my opponent a free switch or a set up move. Furthermore, During this time Chansey gains no leftovers recovery and if a sandstorm is raging, she actually takes damage. Softboiled gives you more flexibility if you want to heal immediately without giving your opponent an extra turn. Even smogon slashes softboiled with protect, not with wish. I totally understand where you are coming from, and I thought it was a crazy idea as well until I tried it out.

Sub-disable gar sounds very nice, as not only does it block spinners and beat Breloom, but it is also one of the most defensive sort of gengars out there adding to the relative "bulk" of my team. It also allows me to keep Xatu so that I don't have to rely on Tentacruel to constantly spin, and so that I can reflect status back on my opponent since I have no heal beller.

 

[d_blan]

I really like the Gothitelle set, I might try out this team, it looks fun

 

[garchompmaster29]

I'm glad to see you like it! Don't give up if you lose your first several battles, it takes a very long time to get used to this team, but once you master it, its a power house.

 

[3.14kachu]

Isn't this team a tad bit Dark and Electric weak? Ferrothorn is your only counter to both.

 

[Aggron459]

This may seem unusual, but I suggest a Dusclops over your Chansey. Since this is DW, NO ONE will expect a Xatu, so you can rely on him to bounce back rocks, and with Dusclops, you can spinblock. You can either go the standard set or go fully special defensive.

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVS: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Ice Beam / Taunt
- Night Shade

 

[noob21]

You might be able to get alot more done if you replace Gothitelle with thunderous but other than that this seems like a great and pretty set rain team for mixed/standered battle.

 

[garchompmaster29]

@3.14kachu
Yes, as I mentioned in the OP it is quite electric weak. However, there are almost zero electric pokes out there that can get through Chansey. The few that can are walled by thorn. It is as problem, but doesn't cost me that many matches. You just have to play around it.

As far as dark goes, STAB dark isn't that common of a move to begin with, and save Scizors pursuit, most non-stab dark moves suck. Tyranitar is the only major threat, but again, I can play around it with ferro, toad, and finish him off with goth.

I am playing around with the team though, and I am trying to figure a way such that I only have 2 electric weaknesses.

@Aggron 459
Dusclops is a pretty good choice for a spin blocker, but if I were to implement it, it would most certainly not be over Chansey. Without Chansey, this team crumbles.

@noob21
Thunderous is banned on PO

@no one in particular:

I am messing around with the team, and I have tested a varient with toad, chansey, ferro, dusclops, celebi, and tentacruel. It seems to be working OK, but it is certainly not complete.

 

[Triple Z]

This may seem unusual, but I suggest a Dusclops over your Chansey. Since this is DW, NO ONE will expect a Xatu, so you can rely on him to bounce back rocks, and with Dusclops, you can spinblock. You can either go the standard set or go fully special defensive.

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVS: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Ice Beam / Taunt
- Night Shade

I wouldn't reccomend this. As 3.14 said, the team is slightly dark weak anyway, this wouldn't help.

 

[garchompmaster29]

I wouldn't reccomend this. As 3.14 said, the team is slightly dark weak anyway, this wouldn't help.

I agree its not a good idea to put it > chansey, but its not a terrible idea to put it > Xatu. Still can't decide weather sub+disable gar or dusk are better spin blockers. Jelly is out of the question because I am trying to mitigate electric weakness. I will be posting the updated team sometime tomorrow.

 

[garchompmaster29]

Team Updated.

 

[noob21]

Team Updated.

Yes! this is a nice rain team! But their's no ice beams nowhere I just noticed that? That can pose a threat for dragons when going against them

 

[Miror]

I'd recommend Taunt on Jellicent over Shadow Ball because most things that Shadow Ball hits would probably hurt Jellicent pretty badly anyways, and it allows Jellicent to wall DDers and SDers by Taunting then WoWing them. This also helps you stop things like Skarmory from setting up on you and phazing.

 

[Xenevix]

Hm. To help with your need for physical bulk and Electric weakness and a spin blocker. I suggest Cofagrigus. He is way underrated and has amazing physical bulk. I'd replace him for Jellicent. This brings you down to two weak to Electric and he can easily take out Breloom. I often use Cofagrigus because he is a monster. Here's what I use.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
Nature: Relaxed ( +Defense -Speed )
EVs: +252 HP +216 Defense +40 Special Defense
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball / Hex
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Will-o-Wisp / Swagger

I really like this guy. He is quite special defensively weak but nothing, I repeat, NOTHING, that uses a physical damage attack that isn't super-effective will never do half. I've had this guy survive three Outrages from Haxorus at one point. Calm Mind makes him a mixed wall and an amazing tank. Shadow Ball / Hex for an effective STAB. Up to you to choose. I usually run Shadow Ball. Hidden Power [Fighting] so you're not walled by Steels and it gives you great coverage. Status move is also up to you but I use Will-o-Wisp just to cripple physical attackers further. I've caught many a team off guard with this guy.

You may ask "Why does he have a minus speed nature?" This guy already doesn't outspeed much so it doesn't matter in the first place. He is actually a handy counter to Trick Room Psychic types such as Reuniclus. Another reason for minus speed nature is that Gyro Ball also does nothing. He is so slow that Ferrothorns have outsped him a few times.

Otherwise I reccomend that you remove Scald from one of your water types and put in Hydro Pump. That'll eliminate any threats that don't resist.

You also don't play very offensively. I think you should add a sweeper, revenge-killer, or at least a set up tank. ( Cofagrigus is calling your name. )

 

[garchompmaster29]

@ Admin Mirror:

I have tried taunt Jelly, and I like it. I like it a lot. I know that it is superior in many ways to shadow ball. There is just one problem. It requires a lot of prediction to pull off. You see, Jelly is very slow, and as such, the only taunting it will ever get to do is on an opponent's switch. If it taunts a dd nite while its in there, that dragonite will set up 1 of them before he gets the chance, and then jelly is under threat of being OHKOd. Now that's fine if you have good prediction, but I don't, I am a great battler, but I am just not that good at predicting switches. I will try it again, but shadow ball just seems the superior option given my low prediction skills.


@Xenevix

I have tried Cofagrigus (not CM, but physically defensive, and I was only sort of impressed. His problem is that he cannot switch into starmie and tentacruel, especially in the rain. Starmie's surf easily 2HKOs, and tentacruels scald hurts a LOT, and has a burn chance. Furthermore, he is forced to rely on rest, which while it isn't quite as bad since I have a heal beller, It isn't comparable to Jellicent's recover.

Also regarding "you don't seem to play too offensively": After all, it is a rain STALL team, so the point is to simply wall all of my opponents pokemon, while doing steady residual damage with entry hazards, status, and low-powered low-risk moves. If it was semi-stall that would be different, but when playing full-stall, you need every slot on your team filled with a supporting Pokemon.

@no one in particular

I REALLY want to fit skarm on the team, but obviously I cannot do so at the present because that would add a ridiculous 4th electric weakness. Instead, I am thinking about putting Skarmory over Ferrothorn, and getting a non-electric weak rapid spinner. Skarm's ability to phaze, reliable recovery, and superior physical bulk make me miss him a lot. I just have so much more trouble with the likes of Dragonite and other physical sweepers. I will test it and hopefully post the final team soon.

 

[Zachmac]

If you lose the weather war to a sun team, you're pretty much toast. I can't really think of a way to fix that at the moment, but I'll come back with a sun counter later.

 

[garchompmaster29]

Lol, I just posted on your team with a similar problem.

Yes, sun does give this team trouble if it wins the weather war, but in most cases, it does not. Politoed, Jellicent, Chansey, and Tentacruel all force Ninetails to switch out. Or be KO'd/set up on. Meanwhile, that tails is murdered by rocks each time it comes in. Jellicent blocks any attempt by sun spinners such as Donphan to try and remove those rocks.

So yes, it does struggle with sun if it loses the weather war, but my team definitely has a better chance to win that war.