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Rank Ash Pokemon
- Thread starter Ragnarok4
- Start date
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
Why is Goodra so high?
Poke'fan68
Well-Known Member
I believe Goodra is a frontier brain level pokemon and I know it tied and lost its two matches against Slurpuff and Bisharp but Slurpuff was a fairy type and Alain's Bisharp was broken. Plus even before the league it was shown to be a powerful pokemon before it left Ash.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
UPPER CHAMPION - (Pikachu) (Greninja)
LOWER CHAMPION - (Charizard) (Lucario) (Sceptile) (Infernape)(Torterra) (Electivire) (Garchomp) (Drapion) (Ursaring)
ELITE FOUR - (Snorlax) (Gengar) (Krookodile) (Dracovish) (Incineroar) (Dragonite)(Gyarados) (Metagross)
FRONTIER BRAIN - (Glalie) (Swellow) (Torkoal) (Gliscor) (Sirfetch'd) (Goodra) (Heracross) (Melmetal) (Nagandel) (Torterra) (Gible) (Hawlucha) (Bulbasaur) (Talonflame) (Lycanroc)(Honchkrow) (Nidoking) (Magmortar) (Hariyama) (Gliscor)
GYM LEADER and FRONTIER BRAIN - (Squirtle) (Palpitoad) (Tauros) (Noctowl) (Quilava) (Leavanny) (Staraptor) (Kingler) (Rowlett) (Buizel) (Pignite) (Corphish) (Donphan)(Aggron) (Ninjask) (Gastrodon) (Froslass)
GYM LEADER - (Unfezant) (Boldore) (Bayleef) (Snivy) (Oshawott) (Noivern)(Weavile)
BASIC LEVEL - (Scraggy) (Muk) (Totodile)
LOWER CHAMPION - (Charizard) (Lucario) (Sceptile) (Infernape)
ELITE FOUR - (Snorlax) (Gengar) (Krookodile) (Dracovish) (Incineroar) (Dragonite)
FRONTIER BRAIN - (Glalie) (Swellow) (Torkoal) (Gliscor) (Sirfetch'd) (Goodra) (Heracross) (Melmetal) (Nagandel) (Torterra) (Gible) (Hawlucha) (Bulbasaur) (Talonflame) (Lycanroc)
GYM LEADER and FRONTIER BRAIN - (Squirtle) (Palpitoad) (Tauros) (Noctowl) (Quilava) (Leavanny) (Staraptor) (Kingler) (Rowlett) (Buizel) (Pignite) (Corphish) (Donphan)
GYM LEADER - (Unfezant) (Boldore) (Bayleef) (Snivy) (Oshawott) (Noivern)
BASIC LEVEL - (Scraggy) (Muk) (Totodile)
JustAStatistic
Super Casual Trainer
Coming up on the end of the semifinals, a ranking of his JN team...
High Champion: Pikachu, Lucario
Mid Champion: Gengar (carried by the Raihan battle), Sirfetch'd, Dracovish
Low Champion: Dragonite
And a few reserves (purely headcanon and strongly subject to bias)...
High Champion: Greninja (scales to just below Lucario)
Mid Champion: Infernape (scales to Gengar)
Fuzzy area around Low Champion and above E4: Charizard (implied to have been surpassed by Infernape), Sceptile (it and Charizard got no respect from JN), Snorlax (maybe? It needs a proper return), Incineroar/Lycanroc/Melmetal/Naganadel (bias)
Other trainers...
Alain: Charizard is probably Mid Champion overall, Chesnaught and Malamar are both roughly Low Champion.
Lance: Gyarados, Hydreigon, and Dragonite are all Low Champion.
Iris: Haxorus is Mid Champion, while Excadrill is Low Champion. Dragonite is probably also Low Champion.
Steven: Metagross is between Mid and High Champion, Cradily and Aggron are both Mid Champion.
Diantha: Mostly Low Champion except Gardevoir who's between Mid and High Champion. Pretty easily the best battler in this section though.
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Ragnarok4
2024
yes, i gave an angry reaction to your comment like a little kid upset because i don't like it
Ultimate Champion : Charizard
High Champion : Pikachu Z, Mega Lucario probably, Mega Metagross, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Garchomp, hypothetical Haxorus Z-Move . If Metagross had dodged the other rays, he would have easily defeated Pikachu, it was a matter of knowing in advance how the attack worked.
Between Mid & High : Mega Lucario probably , Dragonite Dinamax [Lance], Rillaboom Gigamax, Gyarados Dinamax , Spiritomb, Alain MCX
Mid Champion : Rillaboom, Gyarados, Haxorus Base
Low Champion: The rest
cynthia fight potrays pikachu as a tier above the rest of the jn team. Not sure how consistent that is with everything else in JN tho
JustAStatistic
Super Casual Trainer
And Lucario is set to take out two of Cynthia's Pokémon next episode (with one of those being her ace), giving it about the same record as Pikachu this battle. Looks about right to me.
PWC has offered reasons to shift my tiers.
Would have had pikachu+lucario+greninja+infernape on tier 1 but I think the pwc fights, especially against Cynthia went differently than I would have expected it to go.
New Tier List
Tier S: Pikachu
-> Is stated to be ash's strongest pokemon by cynthia
-> is brought out when ash is in trouble
-> one-shots two of cynthis's pokemon
-> no sells 4 attacks vs cynthia's pokemon
-> Cynthia, idenitfying pikachu as the biggest threat(even having tanked a bunch of hits in a previous battle) than anyone else(including a fresh lucario), uses a suicide move to take him out
And all of this is Base Pikachu.
-> Pikachu also bailed ash out in the first round with two tko's including a one-shot vs a daimaxed mon. His showing wasn't as impressive as it was vs cynthia(inconsistency probably), but it supports pikachu as ash's ultimate trump card which is cemented in the cynthia battle where pikachu bails ash out and then cynthia decides to use drag-along to nuetralize it.
It's worth noting pikachu isn't supposed to be a tank. None of the above really accounts for pikachu's agility/mobility(Which should allow it to avoid more attacks than many of the mons it's tanking damage against with a comparably skilled battler commanding it).
Would probably take an underperformance vs leon(assuming ash beats cynthia) for pikachu to get unperched.
Tier A: Lucario, Unoragon, Infernape
-> Lucario was getting the best showings pre-league as most of ash's "aces" do. Thanks to Ash fighting the best opponents and performing the best(at least in-universe), Lucario being ash's ace here makes it hard to place lower than any of ash's other pokemon. Defeating a mega-evolved mon would put it in rarified air though, thanks to cynthia and alain, that's not neccesarily that impressive of a showing as it was before
-> Unoragon gets here for it's performance vs cynthia's mons where it, with lucario's fights pending, looked comfortably like the second strongest mon in the battle from either trainer. As this is against a top 5 trainer that scales unoragan very high
-> Infernape gets benefit of the doubt as it apparently has been constantly battling since it overpowered half of paul's team and was implied to have surpassed charizard who also has been training constantly from when it was a power hourse in kanto
Tier B: Greninja, Charizard, Gengar, Dragonite, Sirfetch
-> Greninja's loss to Alain's Charizard was previously easy to excuse with Alain's charizard being potrayed as an uber-powerful mon. Unfortunately for greninja, PWC has shown Alain's charizard to not actually be all that op with it failing to take out any of leon's pokemon and getting curbed by his ace. Considering that Leon and Ash are likely to have a climcatic battle, this scales basiclaly all of ash's pwc mons favorably relative to his Greninja. Greninja has had time to grow/train but without a trianer it's unclear to what extent they would have improved
-> Dragonite could be argued to tier higher because of their victory over haxorus who was potrayed as a peer for a mega-evolved garchomp but that was a while back(iris may have just gotten stronger) and they didn't look that impressive vs cynthia(relative to ash's othe rmons)
-> Charizard is implied to have been passed by infernape so they're a tier lower
-> Sirfetch deals heavy damage to cynthia's garchomp with one hit so here they go
Would have had pikachu+lucario+greninja+infernape on tier 1 but I think the pwc fights, especially against Cynthia went differently than I would have expected it to go.
New Tier List
Tier S: Pikachu
-> Is stated to be ash's strongest pokemon by cynthia
-> is brought out when ash is in trouble
-> one-shots two of cynthis's pokemon
-> no sells 4 attacks vs cynthia's pokemon
-> Cynthia, idenitfying pikachu as the biggest threat(even having tanked a bunch of hits in a previous battle) than anyone else(including a fresh lucario), uses a suicide move to take him out
And all of this is Base Pikachu.
-> Pikachu also bailed ash out in the first round with two tko's including a one-shot vs a daimaxed mon. His showing wasn't as impressive as it was vs cynthia(inconsistency probably), but it supports pikachu as ash's ultimate trump card which is cemented in the cynthia battle where pikachu bails ash out and then cynthia decides to use drag-along to nuetralize it.
It's worth noting pikachu isn't supposed to be a tank. None of the above really accounts for pikachu's agility/mobility(Which should allow it to avoid more attacks than many of the mons it's tanking damage against with a comparably skilled battler commanding it).
Would probably take an underperformance vs leon(assuming ash beats cynthia) for pikachu to get unperched.
Tier A: Lucario, Unoragon, Infernape
-> Lucario was getting the best showings pre-league as most of ash's "aces" do. Thanks to Ash fighting the best opponents and performing the best(at least in-universe), Lucario being ash's ace here makes it hard to place lower than any of ash's other pokemon. Defeating a mega-evolved mon would put it in rarified air though, thanks to cynthia and alain, that's not neccesarily that impressive of a showing as it was before
-> Unoragon gets here for it's performance vs cynthia's mons where it, with lucario's fights pending, looked comfortably like the second strongest mon in the battle from either trainer. As this is against a top 5 trainer that scales unoragan very high
-> Infernape gets benefit of the doubt as it apparently has been constantly battling since it overpowered half of paul's team and was implied to have surpassed charizard who also has been training constantly from when it was a power hourse in kanto
Tier B: Greninja, Charizard, Gengar, Dragonite, Sirfetch
-> Greninja's loss to Alain's Charizard was previously easy to excuse with Alain's charizard being potrayed as an uber-powerful mon. Unfortunately for greninja, PWC has shown Alain's charizard to not actually be all that op with it failing to take out any of leon's pokemon and getting curbed by his ace. Considering that Leon and Ash are likely to have a climcatic battle, this scales basiclaly all of ash's pwc mons favorably relative to his Greninja. Greninja has had time to grow/train but without a trianer it's unclear to what extent they would have improved
-> Dragonite could be argued to tier higher because of their victory over haxorus who was potrayed as a peer for a mega-evolved garchomp but that was a while back(iris may have just gotten stronger) and they didn't look that impressive vs cynthia(relative to ash's othe rmons)
-> Charizard is implied to have been passed by infernape so they're a tier lower
-> Sirfetch deals heavy damage to cynthia's garchomp with one hit so here they go
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Lucario is set to take out a pokemon that has been "heavily damaged" by one attack from sitfetch and then a milatoss who Iris's Haxorus and Ash's scales to(a pokemon dragonite beat). The record alone may look comprable but the surrounding context really isn't. Pikachu one-shotted two pokemon, no-sold a high volume of attacks, and then was taken out by hax with there being little indication it couldn't have taken out more. Not to mention cynthia explicitly saying pikachu was ash's "greatest partner", specfically saving drag along to nuetralize it, and ash picking pikachu when things were going out of hand.
Taking out base garchomp isn't really notable anymore considering how badly garchomp has done thus far in pwc. And anything short of a one-shot there calls into question if lucario is really that strong. Takng out milatoss would be impressive but it wouldn't be out of the bounds of ash's non-pikachu mon.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
how the hell is Infernape above Greninja? I mean it’s feasible but…
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
T1. Pikachu
T1. Lucario
3. Sirfetchd
4. Dracovish
5. Dragonite
6. Sceptile
7. Charizard
8. Gengar
9. Incineroar
10. Naganadel
11. Snorlax
12. Melmetal
13. Ash-Greninja
14. Infernape
15. Lycanroc
T1. Lucario
3. Sirfetchd
4. Dracovish
5. Dragonite
6. Sceptile
7. Charizard
8. Gengar
9. Incineroar
10. Naganadel
11. Snorlax
12. Melmetal
13. Ash-Greninja
14. Infernape
15. Lycanroc
GLTSRY
Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Ranking his JN team is quite hard, as all members have good feats and the Leon battle will definitely hype some members up. But as of now:
1) Pikachu: Strong enough to one-shot Cynthia’s Gastrodon and in general amazing in the Masters Tournament. He’s being rightfully treated as Ash’s ace.
2) Lucario: One-shotted G-Max Duraludon, will defeat 2 of Cynthia’s Pokémon and has access to ME and aura powers.
3) Sirfetch’d: Defeated M-Altaria, Milotic and nearly took out base Garchomp.
4) Gengar: Defeated Grimmsnarl, was the MVP against Raihan, defeated Paul’s Metagross, Aggron, and assisted in defeating Cradily and Spiritomb.
5) Dragonite: Even though it’s on a losing streak currently, it managed to take out Haxorus (albeit with help of Iris)
6) Dracovish: Still a very strong Pokémon, but it has no real moment where it shined and the loss against Steven was very weird considering it’s feats before and after that battle.
1) Pikachu: Strong enough to one-shot Cynthia’s Gastrodon and in general amazing in the Masters Tournament. He’s being rightfully treated as Ash’s ace.
2) Lucario: One-shotted G-Max Duraludon, will defeat 2 of Cynthia’s Pokémon and has access to ME and aura powers.
3) Sirfetch’d: Defeated M-Altaria, Milotic and nearly took out base Garchomp.
4) Gengar: Defeated Grimmsnarl, was the MVP against Raihan, defeated Paul’s Metagross, Aggron, and assisted in defeating Cradily and Spiritomb.
5) Dragonite: Even though it’s on a losing streak currently, it managed to take out Haxorus (albeit with help of Iris)
6) Dracovish: Still a very strong Pokémon, but it has no real moment where it shined and the loss against Steven was very weird considering it’s feats before and after that battle.
well it's a combination of me guessing infernape's really strong based on constant training and it apparently surpassing charizard(hence why it challenges the fire legendary), and greninja's best showings being made to look alot worse courtesty of alain getting stomped in pwc.
Infernape has been training longer, been training more frequently, and greninja's hard-capped by a mon who doesn't look that impressive anymore.
JustAStatistic
Super Casual Trainer
I like most of this, but I think that Dracovish has surpassed Dragonite for the time being. Even disregarding the Cynthia battle, it's performance against Steven is still better than Dragonite's performance against Raihan.
I wouldn't give so much weight to the Iris battle anymore. It's been quite some time (number of episodes) since then and imo Iris' Haxorus is currently stronger than Ash's Dragonite.
GLTSRY
Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Fair enoug. Tbh, I spent most time deciding on which of those two should be placed higher, so it could very well be the other way around, too.
Though I feel like this list will look very different in a month or so. Dragonite will probably have it‘s big moment against Leon, maybe taking out the Rillaboom that’s being hyped up ever since the tournament started.
Ragnarok4
2024
Greninja is obviously stronger than Infernape, the latter was pummeled by an E4, Greninja meanwhile had an even fight against a champion level user.
Both improved, that much is obvious, but Greninja still has the advantage.
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
The problem with your ranking system is that gym leaders can range from low level (1st gym) to high level (8th gym), so it's a massive spectrum.
Ragnarok4
2024
not really, almost all leaders have the same level, except of course the eighth gym
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
Uh... this is false. Each gym leader has different levels. This is basic knowledge of the franchise.