Rank Ash's rivals in terms of skills

[Power Up]

Straight Cap,I literally gave a list of all his best feats.

How does this make him a one trick pony?Him,Paul and Katie are at the top of the food chain for most skilled trainers that we've seen in the anime not counting Champions,E4,Frontier Brains.

I'm sure Lunanight already debated you on this, you can reread his posts on this as I hold essentially the same position. These arguments have gone in circles for eons and have generally been hashed out in the past so I'd rather to just link/point to them.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I'm sure Lunanight already debated you on this, you can reread his posts on this as I hold essentially the same position. These arguments have gone in circles for eons and have generally been hashed out in the past so I'd rather to just link/point to them.

No sir I don't recall ever debating him about Conway but I did talk to him a few times.Go ahead and give me the link if you can.

 

[Blastmaster]

Alain wasn't entirely brute force tbf, his Thunder Wave + Guillotine combination with Bisharp was pretty clever and he seemed to have a reasonable grasp on how to use Sand Stream before it got put out. I'd probably put him about on par with Gary in skill.

Conway and Sawyer are about equal in my book, they both play into that whole "book smart but bad at adapting" idea that comes up a lot in this show. They're pretty tough as long as their plan is going smoothly, but as soon as it's thrown off they kind of fall apart. Katie would also fall in a similar place.

Gladion and Kukui seemed better at adapting than most others, though admittedly Gladion did have a bit of cheat button in that he could change Silvally's type midbattle. But even disregarding that, both of them pulled off some decent tricks and were good with using their mons' natural traits. I'd say they're at least on par with Conway and Sawyer, maybe even slightly higher.

No one's ever topped Paul though. There's no other character that not only knew how to prepare a thorough gameplan, but even knew Ash would improvise his way through those plans and could prepare even for that. Doubt that's changing anytime soon.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Alain wasn't entirely brute force tbf, his Thunder Wave + Guillotine combination with Bisharp was pretty clever and he seemed to have a reasonable grasp on how to use Sand Stream before it got put out. I'd probably put him about on par with Gary in skill.

Conway and Sawyer are about equal in my book, they both play into that whole "book smart but bad at adapting" idea that comes up a lot in this show. They're pretty tough as long as their plan is going smoothly, but as soon as it's thrown off they kind of fall apart. Katie would also fall in a similar place.

Gladion and Kukui seemed better at adapting than most others, though admittedly Gladion did have a bit of cheat button in that he could change Silvally's type midbattle. But even disregarding that, both of them pulled off some decent tricks and were good with using their mons' natural traits. I'd say they're at least on par with Conway and Sawyer, maybe even slightly higher.

No one's ever topped Paul though. There's no other character that not only knew how to prepare a thorough gameplan, but even knew Ash would improvise his way through those plans and could prepare even for that. Doubt that's changing anytime soon.

I agree with you tbh. Like Paul feels like an impossible bar to meet now when it comes to strategies and that makes me sad, I wish they have opponents be more skillful as he was

 

[Power Up]

No sir I don't recall ever debating him about Conway but I did talk to him a few times.Go ahead and give me the link if you can.

Alain vs Paul; Battle Of The Strongest!

What exactly makes Ash's Charizard overrated? When some people legitimately think that Ash's Charizard could defeat Cynthia's Garchomp, then you know he's overrated. However, Best Wishes didn't show the peak of Charizard's power either. If his growth gets projected forward to where he should...

forums.serebii.net

XY Ash vs DP Ash Battling Skill!

I figured I’d post this here since I’ve seen a certain member tout ‘win rates’ when arguing in favor of DP Ash. Season 10: - vs Paul best of 3 -> Draw 1 - vs Nando 1 vs 1 -> Win 1 - First vs Paul 1 vs 1 -> Loss 1 - vs Jessie(with Crogunk) 1 vs 1 -> Win 2 - First vs Roark 3 vs 3 -> Loss 2 3-1...

forums.serebii.net

Do you consider the Alola league to be a “ real league? “

................................ What made you come to that conclusion? When I say Kalos>Sinnoh, I'm moreso referring to the lesser trainers of those Leagues. Obviously Tobias>Alain and Paul>Sawyer, but Astrid as she was in Mega Evolution Special Act 1 (which is canon to the anime) already had...

forums.serebii.net

I find Sawyer to be superior to Conway in terms of skill. Genaller illustrates that pretty well in his deep dive as well.

Note, I don't 100% agree with everything Lunanight is saying here and I'm not really trying to start an argument, just wanted to link what I was talking about.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Alain vs Paul; Battle Of The Strongest!

What exactly makes Ash's Charizard overrated? When some people legitimately think that Ash's Charizard could defeat Cynthia's Garchomp, then you know he's overrated. However, Best Wishes didn't show the peak of Charizard's power either. If his growth gets projected forward to where he should...

forums.serebii.net

XY Ash vs DP Ash Battling Skill!

I figured I’d post this here since I’ve seen a certain member tout ‘win rates’ when arguing in favor of DP Ash. Season 10: - vs Paul best of 3 -> Draw 1 - vs Nando 1 vs 1 -> Win 1 - First vs Paul 1 vs 1 -> Loss 1 - vs Jessie(with Crogunk) 1 vs 1 -> Win 2 - First vs Roark 3 vs 3 -> Loss 2 3-1...

forums.serebii.net

Do you consider the Alola league to be a “ real league? “

................................ What made you come to that conclusion? When I say Kalos>Sinnoh, I'm moreso referring to the lesser trainers of those Leagues. Obviously Tobias>Alain and Paul>Sawyer, but Astrid as she was in Mega Evolution Special Act 1 (which is canon to the anime) already had...

forums.serebii.net

I guess I did debate with him about Conway,just forgot.

He mentioned Conway being "overrated" due to Ash nearly sweeping him and Dusknoir was his only pokemon but Brock suggested that Conway's first 2 pokemon were used to see the rest of Ash's team although not entirely sure if that's true because he did see 3 pokemon with Ash that he assumed he was gonna use in their match because they learned a new move.

Saying Conway is massively overrated is a huge stretch,what he brought to the table is still one of the most impressive showings in the anime but he did struggle to counter back after Ash used Gible to bite Dusknoir's Shadow Punch.It's a similar thing with Katie but that's why neither of these 2 are on par or higher than Paul because of that reason.Putting Barry above Conway in skill is disrespectful lol.Conway could've done the same thing if he was
paired up with Paul,he did manage to destroy Elekid's Protect using Heracross's Feint,a battle between Paul/Conway would've been a great matchup btw.

I find Sawyer to be superior to Conway in terms of skill.

I did rewatch Sawyer's battles with Tierno and Ash,still have him as my 3rd spot,I just don't think he did anything that topped Conway's showing against Ash.

Conway is so underrated in terms of skill. His Pokemon are pretty weak compared to the other trainers listed here, and still manages to compete with Pokemon that are clearly stronger. He often opts to use support moves along with offensive ones, which is optimal considering you really only need 2 offensive attacks, one for close range and one for long range. Not only that, he really knows when to use what and prepares beforehand to create a good counter (Feint against Elekid, Power Trick +Withdraw and Trick Room to check Ash's aggressive style). I'm going to say Conway is the most skilled, though Paul really isn't far behind.

Again, like I said in the other thread, Conway is forgotten. He has next to no firepower to work with and constantly gets overpowered by raw power and speed. To compensate for this he needs to find ways to oppress incoming greater strength, usually in the form of very specific moves that counter very specific strategies.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

1.Paul
2.Conway
3.Sawyer
4.???
5.???

I still have those trainers in my top 3,Paul has a death grip on the #1 spot and I don't think that's gonna change anytime soon.While others did make a few good points about Sawyer and Conway's weaknesses I still have them in my top 3,the strategies they displayed was something I didn't see from the other rivals,for the 4th and 5th spots it's probably Bea and Gladion.
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The Standard/The Measuring Stick --->> Paul
Type Advantage
Switching
Sacrificing
Adapting
Status Moves
Refusing to dodge attacks
Entry Hazards
Abilities
Planning Ahead
Rotating
Foresight
Scouting
Experience
Capturing
Training
Intelligence

 

[Krackochu]

On a technical level each rival has something good so let's start this ranking baby.

1.Paul: What do I have to say that hasn't already been said by the fanboys

2.Sawyer: In terms of skill Sawyer is great using pokemon that counter Ash's whole team.

3. Kukui/Bea/Alain: controversial pick for Bea being number three but the octo pokemon of hers is amazing against anything that doesn't have explosion or a ghost type. Both Bea and Alain seem to rely on pure power over everything else. Kukui is strong and balanced although his incinroar carrys the team mostly.

4. Conway/Tierno: While both are strong neither have the poke power (lol) to compete with the higher ups

5. Gary's:Gary was here Ash's is a loser(lol)

6. Stephan/Everyone else: Stephan is tight.

 

[Kuzehiko]

Paul
Bea
Gladion
Conway
Sawyer

 

[KittyDitty]

Paul > Gary > Bea > Trip > Conway > Barry