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Ranking Ash's Full Battles.
- Thread starter ash17
- Start date
Darthlord7
The Smug Pikachu
Ash vs Paul (SL)
Ash vs Paul (LA)
Ash vs Alain
Ash vs Sawyer
Ash vs Katie
Ash vs Gary
Ash vs Kukui
Ash vs Tobias
Ash vs Harrison
Ash vs Tyson
Ash vs Cynthia
Ash vs Drake
Ash vs Morrison
Ash vs Cameron
Ash vs Paul (LA)
Ash vs Alain
Ash vs Sawyer
Ash vs Katie
Ash vs Gary
Ash vs Kukui
Ash vs Tobias
Ash vs Harrison
Ash vs Tyson
Ash vs Cynthia
Ash vs Drake
Ash vs Morrison
Ash vs Cameron
janejane6178
Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
On the top-
1. Ash vs Sawyer - 10/10
2. Ash vs Alain - 9.9/10
On the bottom-
1. Ash vs Cameron - 1/10
2. Ash vs that sm “teacher” - 0.000000001/10
1. Ash vs Sawyer - 10/10
2. Ash vs Alain - 9.9/10
On the bottom-
1. Ash vs Cameron - 1/10
2. Ash vs that sm “teacher” - 0.000000001/10
Rukiro
yo
Can someone explain to me why Ash/Gary is rated so high? Is it nostalgia?
That entire battle is filled with one-hit KO's until the Charizard/Blastoise finale. Ash's Pokemon like Tauros and Muk come back to get KO'd in like 1 hit. I'm really confused when I see people rank Gary higher than the strats we just saw in Cynthia's battle.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Yeah after my rewatch I edited Ash vs Cynthia to sit where it does
Ive decided I do like it more than the Kalos league battles despite the inferior animation and choreography, would post my reasons and love for ash vs Cynthia in the episode threads later
JustAStatistic
Super Casual Trainer
It didn't even take me a couple weeks. The only problems I had with Ash vs Cynthia are Togekiss' and Garchomp's movesets, and the third episode's animation.
1. Kukui
2. League Paul
3. Alain
4. Cynthia
5. Sawyer
6. Lake Paul
7. Katie
8. Tobias
9. Drake
10. Gary
11. Harrison
12. Tyson
13. Morrison
14. Cameron
Xuxuba
Well-Known Member
Personally, i rate that one high because of the character development coming from both Ash and Gary, aswell as the build up and tension that started back in Kanto but really took off in Johto. While Ash vs Cynthia had a long time coming, the build up leading up to it was mostly inconsistent, too spaced out, with her reappearences in Journeys doing nothing to better estabilish a potential face off, and, as a result, the connection/rivalry the two of them shared is nowhere near as strong as the one shared between Ash and Gary or even rivals that Ash has known for a much shorter time like Sawyyer. As for the development, they mostly focused on Cynthia's decision on whether to retire or not, which was a plot point that came out of literally nowhere and no one really cared about. I guess you could say Ash remembering a single strategy he used before (countershield) was a nice nod to his development from DP, but that is far from enough for me to rank it at my top 3. Meanhwile, by the end of Ash and Gary's battle, you could see how much their relationship improved and you can still see it to this day.
Don't get me wrong though, i'd still rank Ash vs Cynthia high and i do enjoy long lasting fights with elaborate strategies aswell as visual spetacles that make my eyes water (hence why DP and XY's battles are at the top), but that is not the only criteria i am using. As someone who is not often satisfied with this show's action scenes (bar DP/XY), what usually keeps me interested is the emotional value and growth involved, and, in that regards, Ash vs Gary did better.
In terms of strategies, i think Ash vs Paul is probably the best one and it shows how Paul became a far more considerate and respectful person. As for Ash vs Sawyer, it's potentially the best visual spetacle this show has seen (along with Ash vs Alain), while it also had some interesting development with Saywer putting into practice everything he learned from Ash and Ash finally admiting to himself he was scared of how fast Sawyer was progressing and how the person who looked up to him the most could eventually surpass him.
That is why i ranked them the way i did.
Rukiro
yo
The strangest thing about Ash/Gary for me is Ash doesn't even use Pikachu in the battle. How do you have Ash beat the original rival of the anime and not use Pikachu at all? They also never had Pikachu beat Umbreon, which as an Eevee, beat Pikachu in the Orange Island finale.
Can you believe Gary didn't use Umbreon in his league match either? That always felt strange to me even back then, that Pikachu and Umbreon were not in that battle.
Can you believe Gary didn't use Umbreon in his league match either? That always felt strange to me even back then, that Pikachu and Umbreon were not in that battle.
DayQuil95
Well-Known Member
I wonder why the writers never used Pikachu and Umbreon there as well, since afaIk even Gary and Ash didn't give proper explanations on the matter.
Rukiro
yo
Yeah the last time they battle in AG's final episode is Pikachu vs Electrivire though, so Pikachu does battle him there.
Speaking of that I hope Ash and Gary battle at least once before JN ends. Just a quick 1 on 1 with Pikachu vs him. I get the feeling this will be the last we see of Gary for a long time again and I kinda want to see them battle one last time
DayQuil95
Well-Known Member
It also would be fun if Ash beats him this time around, since the only time Ash has ever beaten Gary was funnily enough when he didn't use Pikachu, but given how things are, I feel like they would probably have Goh vs Gary than Ash vs Gary.
GarchompTheAssassin
Water starter fan
Memory is pretty fuzzy on a lot of these but I'll give it a try:
S Tier
Both Paul battles (honestly I think the only issue I have across both battles is the treatment of Torterra)
High A Tier
Alain
Low A Tier
Sawyer
High B Tier
Drake, Gary, Katie, Harrison
Low B Tier
Tobias, Cynthia
D Tier
Morrison
Parody tier
Cameron
S Tier
Both Paul battles (honestly I think the only issue I have across both battles is the treatment of Torterra)
High A Tier
Alain
Low A Tier
Sawyer
High B Tier
Drake, Gary, Katie, Harrison
Low B Tier
Tobias, Cynthia
D Tier
Morrison
Parody tier
Cameron
Rukiro
yo
As much as they were fine for their time, I say Gary and Harrison's battles which aired in 2002 do not really hold up as well 20 years later. And I'm not talking about animation, but the way the battles were written. Given how much I saw people try to criticize every aspect of the Cynthia battle, if either Gary or Harrison's battles aired NOW people would be ripping every single aspect of those battles apart.
Ash's Tauros and Muk literally get one-shot and last 1 minute in Gary's battle. Noctowl's battle lasts 30 seconds in Harrison's match and it barely gets to call out a single attack. Half of Gary's Pokemon are literal fodder and go down fast like his Golem, Scizor, Nidoqueen, etc. Totodile vs. Sneasel was practically a gag battle.
Placing Cynthia's lower than these is nostalgic goggles in full bloom.
Ash's Tauros and Muk literally get one-shot and last 1 minute in Gary's battle. Noctowl's battle lasts 30 seconds in Harrison's match and it barely gets to call out a single attack. Half of Gary's Pokemon are literal fodder and go down fast like his Golem, Scizor, Nidoqueen, etc. Totodile vs. Sneasel was practically a gag battle.
Placing Cynthia's lower than these is nostalgic goggles in full bloom.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
This list, with Alain near the bottom.
MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
My opinion on the Alain battle is weirdly skewed. Like, the ending? Trash. But the rest of the battle is golden, so I just place it in the middle.
GarchompTheAssassin
Water starter fan
Why would the best non-Paul full battle be at the bottom.
If I had 'nostalgic goggles in full bloom' I would've put them above the XY and DP battles as well. Ash vs Cynthia is just hampered by too many things to for me to regard it highly.
Rukiro
yo
Such as? The comparison was also the fact that how short most older battles were. The only problem with Cynthia's is Gastrodon went down a little too quick but I let it slide since it's Pikachu. Every other one of her pokemon had justified losses. I also enjoy the final slugfest although I agree the animation could have been better.