Ranking Ash's Full Battles.

[NPT]

Ash vs Paul (Sinnoh League) - 9.5/10
Ash vs Paul (Lake Acuity) - 7.5/10
Ash vs Katie - 7/10
Ash vs Alain - 2.5/10
Ash vs Sawyer - 6/10
Ash vs Cynthia - 8/10
Ash vs Drake - 7/10
Ash vs Kukui - 10/10
Ash vs Leon - 9.5/10
Ash vs Harrison - 4/10
Ash vs Gary - 7.5/10
Ash vs Tyson - 4/10
Ash vs Tobias - 6/10
Ash vs Morrison - 2/10
Ash vs Cameron - 1/10

Not gonna bother with the tables nonsense. Screw that crap.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Ash vs Cynthia is complete ass. It makes Ash vs Tyson look like Ash vs Paul (and Ash vs Tyson is mid)

 

[doofinc]

Currently still debating on where Ash vs. Leon ends up on my table before properly updating it.

• I think the strategy in Ash vs. Paul still trumps the strategy in Ash vs. Leon
• I need to review Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard X to compare it to Pikachu vs. Charizard
  • Pikachu vs. Charizard easily clears in emotional weight
  • Pikachu vs. Charizard gets bonus points for, you know, Pikachu not losing
  • I still really like the choreography for Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard X
    • That being said, Pikachu vs. Charizard has some raw moments as well
  • Pikachu vs Charizard final clash also gives bonus points for looking insane
• I feel like Ash vs. Kukui also has quite a bit of good balance of several aspects compared to Ash vs. Leon i.e. comedy, story impact, strategy
• I'm not going to pretend Ash vs. Leon isn't carried by the ending, but the ending is so stellar that it will definitely send it high, just need to determine how high
• Ash vs. Leon gets bonus points for all the gimmicks - I'm on the side of "bring out all the gimmicks and give me a show"
• Something I heavily appreciate about Ash vs. Leon is that every Pokemon felt like a boss and every one not named Cinderace went down in a satisfying way.

It probably beats Ash vs. Sawyer for me at this point.

 

[RafaSceptile]

PEAK battles:
1) Ash vs Leon (10/10)
2) Ash vs Kukui (9.8/10)

AWESOME battles:
3) Ash vs Paul SL (9.7/10)
4) Ash vs Cynthia (9.3/10)

GREAT battles:
5) Ash vs Sawyer (9/10)
6) Ash vs Gary (8.8/10)
7) Ash vs Drake (8.5/10)
8) Ash vs Alain (8.3/10)

GOOD battles:
9) Ash vs Harrison (8/10)
10) Ash vs Katie (7.8/10)

DECENT battles:
11) Ash vs Tobias (6/10)
12) Ash vs Tyson (5.8/10)

AVERAGE battles:
13) Ash vs Paul Acuity (5/10) (the hot take)
14) Ash vs Morrison (4.8/10)

Ash vs Cameron tier
15) Ash vs Cameron (3.5/10)

 

[Damerdal]

S-tier:
1. Ash vs Paul SL
2. Ash vs Paul LA
3. Ash vs Sawyer

A-tier:
4. Ash vs Leon
5. Ash vs Kukui
6. Ash vs Alain
7. Ash vs Cynthia

B-tier:
8. Ash vs Tobias
9. Ash vs Katie
10. Ash vs Gary
11. Ash vs Drake
12. Ash vs Tyson

C-tier:
13. Ash vs Harrison
14. Ash vs Morrison

D-tier:
15. Ash vs Cameron


I really enjoyed the full battles that combined strategy + firepower.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

PEAK battles:
1) Ash vs Leon (10/10)
2) Ash vs Kukui (9.8/10)

AWESOME battles:
3) Ash vs Paul SL (9.7/10)
4) Ash vs Cynthia (9.3/10)

GREAT battles:
5) Ash vs Sawyer (9/10)
6) Ash vs Gary (8.8/10)
7) Ash vs Drake (8.5/10)
8) Ash vs Alain (8.3/10)

GOOD battles:
9) Ash vs Harrison (8/10)
10) Ash vs Katie (7.8/10)

DECENT battles:
11) Ash vs Tobias (6/10)
12) Ash vs Tyson (5.8/10)

AVERAGE battles:
13) Ash vs Paul Acuity (5/10) (the hot take)
14) Ash vs Morrison (4.8/10)

Ash vs Cameron tier
15) Ash vs Cameron (3.5/10)

That's pretty much same but for Ash vs Cameron 3.5 is too much as well.

 

[Ignition]

Paul (SL)>Paul (LA)>Kukui>Sawyer>Cynthia>Katie>Alain>Tyson>Gary>Harrison>Drake>Morrison>Tobias>Cameron

Not much has changed since I made this comment but this is my ranking after his match with Leon:
1) Paul (SL)
2) Paul (LA)
3) Kukui
4) Leon
5) Sawyer
6) Katie
7) Cynthia
8) Alain
9) Tyson
10) Gary
11) Drake
12) Morrison
13) Tobias
14) Cameron

 

[doofinc]

No more tables. Gonna do this in tiers to show which ones are really close to each other IMO but it's still fully ordered:

1. Best
   1. Ash vs. Paul (LotV)
      1. Fantastic strategy from both ends, excellent pacing, satisfying ending
      2. Only con is Torterra, and I guess this doesn't have the animation of the other ones
   2. Ash vs. Kukui
      1. Great story elements, good comedy, strategy, animation; IMO the most balanced Full Battle. Pikachu vs Tapu Koko
      2. Bad pacing at the start and end
2. Great
   1. Ash vs. Leon
      1. Good strategy, gimmicks galore makes this a show, solid animation, every one of Leon's Pokemon felt like a boss fight, god tier finale
      2. Handling of Eternatus + Cinderace is a giant con
   2. Ash vs. Alain
      1. Fantastic animation throughout, good strategy, great pacing, Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X is the best choreographed 1v1 IMO
      2. Losing this fight is a giant L
3. Very good
   1. Ash vs. Sawyer
      1. Good strategy, fantastic animation, Ash-Greninja vs Mega Sceptile
      2. The first half of the battle is kinda slow, plus the second half, while good, is rushing towards Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Sceptile
4. Good
   1. Ash vs. Katie
      1. Surprisingly good strategy wise, good comedy
      2. Unfortunately stuck in the bad animation era + battle didn't really matter much
   2. Ash vs. Cynthia
      1. Solid strategy from Cynthia's end at the start
      2. Things kind of tapered down as the fight went on, Mega Lucario vs. Garchomp was kinda disappointing
5. Indifferent
   1. Ash vs. Tobias
      1. Ash got to demonstrate his strength against 2 legendaries
      2. The existence of this battle is still a whole omegalul moment
   2. Ash vs. Paul (Lake Acuity)
      1. Good from a story PoV to demonstrate where Paul was at
      2. Still a 1-sided beatdown that wasn't exactly fun to watch
   3. Ash vs. Harrison
      1. Decent strategy, no glaring flaws
      2. Stuck in the bad animation era
6. Bad
   1. Ash vs. Cameron
      1. Good strategy + choreography for 70% of the battle
      2. You already know the 30% of the battle that makes this bad
   2. Ash vs. Gary
      1. Charizard vs. Blastoise was a solid ending for its time
      2. 90% of this fight was OHKOs, some of which made no sense
   3. Ash vs. Drake
      1. Some funny moments
      2. Bad animation era
7. Awful
   1. Ash vs. Morrison
      1. Not counting the half of the battle which was Morrison throwing for story purposes, the other half was still rushed and boring
   2. Ash vs. Tyson
      1. This is the only full battle where things happen off-screen + it feels like they phoned it in for Battle Frontier coming up

 

[DayQuil95]

Rewatched my favorite battles recently, and honestly, I now feel like my bias for some battles clouded my judgment a little when ranking them, most namely Vs Kukui, Vs Cynthia, and Vs Alain. An updated list of mine would be:

1. Ash vs Paul (SL).
2. Ash vs Sawyer.
3. Ash vs Cynthia.
4. Ash vs Kukui.
5. Ash vs Gary.
6. Ash vs Alain.
7. Ash vs Paul (LA).
8. Ash vs Drake.
9. Ash vs Katie.
10. Ash vs Tobias.
11. Ash vs Harrison.
12. Ash vs Tyson.
13. Ash vs Morrison.
14. Ash vs Cameron.

I was too keen on favoring animation over legitimate strategy usage and emotional weight when making it, which led me to put the likes of Vs Alain and Vs Kukui over Vs Cynthia, which is one of the most strategy-heavy 6v6s so far in the anime.

Honestly would put Ash vs Leon in 1st, but keep the others the way they are.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Losing this fight is a giant L

Yes ugh pain. Ash should have won but his Greninja croaked.

 

[Peluched49]

Ive watched all the full battles in the series. Theres a lot i have to write, will do eventually. My rankings have chsnged a bit too.

 

[Peluched49]

1. 1. Ash vs. Alain
      1. Fantastic animation throughout, good strategy, great pacing, Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X is the best choreographed 1v1 IMO
      2. Losing this fight is a giant L
2. Very good
   1. Ash vs. Sawyer
      1. Good strategy, fantastic animation, Ash-Greninja vs Mega Sceptile
      2. The first half of the battle is kinda slow, plus the second half, while good, is rushing towards Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Sceptile

Honestly i felt the other way around with the sawyer fight. Rewatching i thought the first half was a lot more engaging, with a lot of strategies shown by both trainers and they're was a story where the field was constantly being used by both trainers to one up each other which culminated with pikachu vs aigeslash. As soon as the field turn to a bland dessert, the fight started going downhill. The animation became better but the fighting itself became less interesting, rushed, and honestly i dont think greninja vs sceptile is a great fight despite probably being the best animated fight in the series. The way pikachu was defeated was pretty ridiculous too.

The alain fight didnt have that much strategies tbh as well, it was constant back and forth of attacks with consistently great animation.

 

[doofinc]

Honestly i felt the other way around with the sawyer fight. Rewatching i thought the first half was a lot more engaging, with a lot of strategies shown by both trainers and they're was a story where the field was constantly being used by both trainers to one up each other which culminated with pikachu vs aigeslash. As soon as the field turn to a bland dessert, the fight started going downhill. The animation became better but the fighting itself became less interesting, rushed, and honestly i dont think greninja vs sceptile is a great fight despite probably being the best animated fight in the series. The way pikachu was defeated was pretty ridiculous too.

Maybe I need to rewatch parts of Ash vs. Sawyer but I've always felt that the first half was less engaging. I'll give points to Sawyer for the plan to shut down Hawlucha completely with Slaking + chopping down the trees with Aegislash, and a few to Ash for making use of the trees and Electro Ball in Clawitzer, but I do think the Talonflame segments were pretty boring.

I attribute the big strategy play from Ash to be in the second half anyways since that's when Pikachu vs. Aegislash was resolved. The second half is mainly animation focused indeed with less focus on strategy, but the tidbits on Noivern using echolocation in the smoke to locate Salamence, and Sawyer being ready for that is good, along with Sawyer paying that in return via using Slurpuff's smelling abilities in the smoke.

Overall, I think what the fight does well is demonstrate Sawyer's strengths and weaknesses - good when he's prepared (Slaking vs Hawlucha, being aware of Noivern's sensory abilities while also using it in turn with Slurpuff) while not being as strong when unprepared or faced with something he doesn't understand (Aegislash moment, losing to Goodra who he's never seen). I also don't really have too much issue with Pikachu going down - mans was tired after taking 2 Pokemon out. So that's why I favour part 2 more than part 1.

The alain fight didnt have that much strategies tbh as well, it was constant back and forth of attacks with consistently great animation.

I think all of Pikachu vs Tyranitar was good strategy with the immediate taking out of the sandstorm, hitting a soaked (not the move but physics still apply) Tyranitar with Thunderbolt, making Stone Edge a projectile with the tail and Pikachu countering back. There also was some strategy with Noivern's echolocation and whatever the heck was going on with Hawlucha. I got nothing for Talonflame vs Unfezant but that goes in the great animation category, nor do I have too much for Pikachu vs Metagross asides from "jump on Metagross". In part 2 there was still some good with Pikachu using Iron Tail on the ground to put up a sand wall, but I think some of my "strategy points" go into Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X because of innovative use of Water Shuriken that we really haven't seen much of such as using Water Shuriken in the ground to counter Blast Burn and using Water Shuriken as a melee weapon vs Thunder Punch.

Overall I think there was good strategy in Ash vs. Alain, but it is certainly done in bursts, as opposed to being more consistent throughout and is also more fast-paced. The lack of strategy in between sections is a bit noticeable, but I don't think it was too little overall.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Maybe I need to rewatch parts of Ash vs. Sawyer but I've always felt that the first half was less engaging. I'll give points to Sawyer for the plan to shut down Hawlucha completely with Slaking + chopping down the trees with Aegislash, and a few to Ash for making use of the trees and Electro Ball in Clawitzer, but I do think the Talonflame segments were pretty boring.

I attribute the big strategy play from Ash to be in the second half anyways since that's when Pikachu vs. Aegislash was resolved. The second half is mainly animation focused indeed with less focus on strategy, but the tidbits on Noivern using echolocation in the smoke to locate Salamence, and Sawyer being ready for that is good, along with Sawyer paying that in return via using Slurpuff's smelling abilities in the smoke.

Overall, I think what the fight does well is demonstrate Sawyer's strengths and weaknesses - good when he's prepared (Slaking vs Hawlucha, being aware of Noivern's sensory abilities while also using it in turn with Slurpuff) while not being as strong when unprepared or faced with something he doesn't understand (Aegislash moment, losing to Goodra who he's never seen). I also don't really have too much issue with Pikachu going down - mans was tired after taking 2 Pokemon out. So that's why I favour part 2 more than part 1.


I think all of Pikachu vs Tyranitar was good strategy with the immediate taking out of the sandstorm, hitting a soaked (not the move but physics still apply) Tyranitar with Thunderbolt, making Stone Edge a projectile with the tail and Pikachu countering back. There also was some strategy with Noivern's echolocation and whatever the heck was going on with Hawlucha. I got nothing for Talonflame vs Unfezant but that goes in the great animation category, nor do I have too much for Pikachu vs Metagross asides from "jump on Metagross". In part 2 there was still some good with Pikachu using Iron Tail on the ground to put up a sand wall, but I think some of my "strategy points" go into Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X because of innovative use of Water Shuriken that we really haven't seen much of such as using Water Shuriken in the ground to counter Blast Burn and using Water Shuriken as a melee weapon vs Thunder Punch.

Overall I think there was good strategy in Ash vs. Alain, but it is certainly done in bursts, as opposed to being more consistent throughout and is also more fast-paced. The lack of strategy in between sections is a bit noticeable, but I don't think it was too little overall.

The strats do pale in comparison to battles like Ash vs Katie, Conway, Paul, Cynthia and Leon by a large margin which ig is why its more egregious
Sawyer, Alain and even Kukui had strats in their matchups time to time, but weren't hyperfocused on then specifically like the rest of the battles I mentioned, being more of a spectacle instead and in the case of Sawyer and kukui, narrative payoff

 

[doofinc]

The strats do pale in comparison to battles like Ash vs Katie, Conway, Paul, Cynthia and Leon by a large margin which ig is why its more egregious
Sawyer, Alain and even Kukui had strats in their matchups time to time, but weren't hyperfocused on then specifically like the rest of the battles I mentioned, being more of a spectacle instead and in the case of Sawyer and kukui, narrative payoff

I agree on the Katie + Paul fronts. Haven't watched the Conway battle in years but from what I remember, I'd probably agree with that.

IMO, the strategy in Leon and Cynthia fights are still closer in level to the XY fights (possibly still higher but I'm not going that deep in the comparison).

I think the strategy in Ash vs. Cynthia is very video gamey which is fine, but I generally prefer strategy that involves the kind of creativity that we generally don't think of. Counter shield was nice and the Sirfetch'd shield for Stealth Rocks was alright albeit a bit unrealistic (but so was the Aegislash floating wood lol), but asides from that, most of the strategy is still frontloaded in the battle, and on Cynthia's end. I think the imbalance of strategy being more on Cynthia's end than Ash's end hurts the overall strategy of that battle from my POV. That being said, Ash vs. Alain does have similar issues on the strategy imbalance (where Ash led the strategy while Alain still mostly mashed and won), but I like the creativity aspects that Ash vs. Alain brings.

Ash vs. Leon strategy felt relatively basic compared to the other ones. Outside of Leon's Counter Shield and Dragapult's Dragon Tail strategy, I feel like most of the "strategies" to note were generally bait and punishes, use this move to counter that move, or ideas we've seen before like the Ice Field. We still don't really have a proper explanation on the Dracovish thing either. The one big one that would've been neat to see figured out was Libero, and we know how that ended up -I actually dock points on the strategy front because of how this was handled.

IMO, if I were to rank strictly on strategy (no Conway; scuffed 3 minute ranking; Kukui isn't in this ranking cuz my brain isn't remembering much about that fight at the moment):

Paul >> Katie > Sawyer = Cynthia > Alain >= Leon.

I think the strategy in the Alain front went down in my mind now, but I now think higher about the Sawyer strategy now. That being said, I think Sawyer and Cynthia are still relatively close; Cynthia fight having pretty good game strategy but the strategy distribution being relatively bad, whereas Sawyer fight might've had a bit less strategy but was more creative overall and balanced.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Rankings of Ash’s teams by strength

1. JN (world champs)
2. SM (defeated Kukui)
3. OS (defeated Brandon)
4. AG (defeated Frontier Brains)
5. DP (defeated Paul)
6. XY (defeated Sawyer, a rookie, and lost to Alain, a legit opponent that they should have beaten)
7. Johto (did good against Harrison)
8. BW (lol)

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I agree on the Katie + Paul fronts. Haven't watched the Conway battle in years but from what I remember, I'd probably agree with that.

IMO, the strategy in Leon and Cynthia fights are still closer in level to the XY fights (possibly still higher but I'm not going that deep in the comparison).

I think the strategy in Ash vs. Cynthia is very video gamey which is fine, but I generally prefer strategy that involves the kind of creativity that we generally don't think of. Counter shield was nice and the Sirfetch'd shield for Stealth Rocks was alright albeit a bit unrealistic (but so was the Aegislash floating wood lol), but asides from that, most of the strategy is still frontloaded in the battle, and on Cynthia's end. I think the imbalance of strategy being more on Cynthia's end than Ash's end hurts the overall strategy of that battle from my POV. That being said, Ash vs. Alain does have similar issues on the strategy imbalance (where Ash led the strategy while Alain still mostly mashed and won), but I like the creativity aspects that Ash vs. Alain brings.

Ash vs. Leon strategy felt relatively basic compared to the other ones. Outside of Leon's Counter Shield and Dragapult's Dragon Tail strategy, I feel like most of the "strategies" to note were generally bait and punishes, use this move to counter that move, or ideas we've seen before like the Ice Field. We still don't really have a proper explanation on the Dracovish thing either. The one big one that would've been neat to see figured out was Libero, and we know how that ended up -I actually dock points on the strategy front because of how this was handled.

IMO, if I were to rank strictly on strategy (no Conway; scuffed 3 minute ranking; Kukui isn't in this ranking cuz my brain isn't remembering much about that fight at the moment):

Paul >> Katie > Sawyer = Cynthia > Alain >= Leon.

I think the strategy in the Alain front went down in my mind now, but I now think higher about the Sawyer strategy now. That being said, I think Sawyer and Cynthia are still relatively close; Cynthia fight having pretty good game strategy but the strategy distribution being relatively bad, whereas Sawyer fight might've had a bit less strategy but was more creative overall and balanced.

Damn, I heavily disagree but I do wanna rewatch all the 6v6s first before properly listing out Everything

 

[doofinc]

Damn, I heavily disagree but I do wanna rewatch all the 6v6s first before properly listing out Everything

I did forget about the Sirfetch'd shield surfing into Rillaboom catching the shield moment during Ash vs Leon, which I really liked. So I'd probably move Leon strategy definitely above Ash vs Alain in the Sawyer/Cynthia area. Prob have to actually rewatch everything again though to see how to better order the 3 but off the top of my head it might end up as Leon >= Sawyer >= Cynthia.

 

[Peluched49]

Damn, I heavily disagree but I do wanna rewatch all the 6v6s first before properly listing out Everything

Its big journey for sure

 

[Ragnarok4]

as a non-fan of Ash and anime enjoyer sometimes, I will make my top of the battles that I enjoyed the most

1. Ash vs Paul
2. Ash vs Sawyer
3. Ash vs Leon