Ranking Ash's Pokémon from Strongest to Weakest

[Genaller]

Why would Wulfric be battling at a lower level in the first battle? Especially after he got annoyed by Ash's attitude. If Hawlucha vs Abomasnow happened during the rematch, then you might have had a case because Wulfric would be taking it easy after crushing Ash in the first battle and that was further confirmed when he didn't abuse the Ice Body strategy. But that's not the case. It's a contradiction buddy. The anime is infamous for this inconsistency, hence why you ought to be careful trying to determine everything with logic equations, because then you have to fish for statements like "playing for keeps" in order to hope that everything can stay intact.

He decided to hold back with Abamasnow and go all out with Avalugg, and believed going all out with both would exceed gym leader challenge thresholds. It’s not that difficult. Fact: Wulfric was battling at an unquantifiably higher lvl with Abamasnow even before ME, and your claims to the contrary are nothing more than baseless headcanon. Fact: Ash-Greninja was battling on a completely different lvl from the previous battle which stunned Wulfirc to the point where he had to comment on it and then explicitly cited it as the reason for using ME. Lucha objectively didn’t garner anywhere near the same recognition from him.

Then all I'll have to say is:

A view that’s backed up by evidence from the show to a far higher degree than yours though please with all due respect, continue to live in your biased little bubble ^_^.

Charizard defeated a legendary commanded by a Frontier Brain way back during Battle Frontier. Mega Charizard X struggled against higher legendaries (not on par whatsoever), but is better suited to defeat a lower legendary like Articuno, why is precisely what Ash's Charizard defeated. This Mega Charizard X defeated Ash-Greninja twice decisively. So I fail to see how Greninja is going to win "mid diff" against a Charizard that has only become even more .

You’ve still yet to justify how any of that puts Ash’s Zard in the Champion Base Ace and E4 Mega Ace spectrums. Are you trying to be deliberately ignorant or do you lack reading comprehension?

Also said ‘higher legendaries’ would eviscerate the likes of Articuno 10x over xD.

Charizard would have KO'd Dragonite next move if N didn't intervene. Why do you think he intervened? Dragonite is holding its left arm. The battle was over.

Not sure why you’re even making a big deal of this since according to you Dragonite is worse than Brock and Misty’s Megas. If I were to consider Dragonite that low, then Zard drops to S in my book.

The anime operates on meta, unfortunately. Some things can't be defended by meta (like Oshawott being any form of challenge to Greninja), but a clash between Charizard and Greninja, no matter if your argument or mine is closer to the truth, would 100% be epic.

Sure and the writers would write Charizard to have [insert enhancement mechanic] in order to make sure it’s epic in addition to making sense.

 

[Dream Lad]

He decided to hold back with Abamasnow and go all out with Avalugg, and believed going all out with both would exceed gym leader challenge thresholds. It’s not that difficult. Fact: Wulfric was battling at an unquantifiably higher lvl with Abamasnow even before ME, and your claims to the contrary are nothing more than baseless headcanon. Fact: Ash-Greninja was battling on a completely different lvl from the previous battle which stunned Wulfirc to the point where he had to comment on it and then explicitly cited it as the reason for using ME. Lucha objectively didn’t garner anywhere near the same recognition from him.

What baseless headcanon claim did I even make? Hawlucha vs Abomasnow happened in the first battle, that is fact. I'm not the one who's trying to brush it off with an extremely convenient headcanon of "he was holding back first battle, but going all out second battle", especially when he noticed Ash's attitude. It's false too because he sets up for the incoming Avalugg Ice Body strategy with the Blizzard.

The anime being inconsistent and contradictory, especially the number of times it has happened, is a simpler and far likelier reason than those headcanons.

You’ve still yet to justify how any of that puts Zard in the Champion Base Ace and E4 Mega Ace spectrums. Are you trying to be deliberately ignorant or do you lack reading comprehension?

You sure love to throw in insults, don't you ^_^? I don't even subscribe to your X-level spectrums that you feel the need to classify every Pokemon in. Simply put, Mega Charizard X was in no way shape or form on par with the higher-level legendaries. He's more on par with the lower-level legendaries, which is precisely what Charizard defeated way back in Battle Frontier, and Charizard has only gotten better since then. Ash-Greninja lost twice decisively to Mega Charizard X, so how am I expected to think that he's now capable of beating "mid diff" a Pokemon that defeated a legendary commanded by a Frontier Brain, and this very Pokemon has only improved since then.

Not sure why you’re even making a big deal of this since according to you Dragonite is worse than Brock and Misty’s Megas. If I were to consider Dragonite that low, then Zard drops to S in my book.

Even if Dragonite is worse than Brock and Misty's megas, Charizard being that much better than it is a sign of how powerful he has become.

Sure and the writers would write Charizard to have [insert enhancement mechanic] in order to make sure it’s epic in addition to making sense.

IMO, if Charizard had any enhancement, this would be a very decisive victory for him.

 

[Genaller]

What baseless headcanon claim did I even make? Hawlucha vs Abomasnow happened in the first battle, that is fact. I'm not the one who's trying to brush it off with an extremely convenient headcanon of "he was holding back first battle, but going all out second battle", especially when he noticed Ash's attitude. It's false too because he sets up for the incoming Avalugg Ice Body strategy with the Blizzard.

Mine are factual whilst yours are baseless headcanon based on Clemont and Wulfric’s statements. Everything else you’ve stated here has also already been addressed.

The anime being inconsistent and contradictory, especially the number of times it has happened, is a simpler and far likelier reason than those headcanons.

I can still make a far more thorough case for my views than you can yours.

You sure love to throw in insults, don't you ^_^?

I tend to be blunt and speak the unfiltered truth. If some people find it insulting then so be it.

I don't even subscribe to your X-level spectrums that you feel the need to classify every Pokemon in. Simply put, Mega Charizard X was in no way shape or form on par with the higher-level legendaries. He's more on par with the lower-level legendaries, which is precisely what Charizard defeated way back in Battle Frontier, and Charizard has only gotten better since then. Ash-Greninja lost twice decisively to Mega Charizard X, so how am I expected to think that he's now capable of beating "mid diff" a Pokemon that defeated a legendary commanded by a Frontier Brain, and this very Pokemon has only improved since then.

Wow the sheer degree of confirmation bias and hypocrisy on display here is outstanding! Everything stated here has already been addressed in previous posts.

Even if Dragonite is worse than Brock and Misty's megas, Charizard being that much better than it is a sign of how powerful he has become.

Yeah though how much stronger it needs to be to do that gets significantly lower with said placement for Dragonite.

IMO, if Charizard had any enhancement, this would be a very decisive victory for him.

Love the double standards xD. Zard loses mid diff in Base and it can go either way in an ‘epic’ fight if Zard gets an enhancement.

 

[Dream Lad]

Mine are factual whilst yours are baseless headcanon based on Clemont and Wulfric’s statements. Everything else you’ve stated here has also already been addressed. I can still make a far more thorough case for my views than you can yours. I tend to be blunt and speak the unfiltered truth. If some people find it insulting then so be it. Wow the sheer degree of confirmation bias and hypocrisy on display here is outstanding! Everything stated here has already been addressed in previous posts. Yeah though how much stronger it needs to be to do that gets significantly lower with said placement for Dragonite. Love the double standards xD. Zard loses mid diff in Base and it can go either way in an ‘epic’ fight if Zard gets an enhancement.

All right man, if you're going to dismiss every rebuttal with generic condescending statements of how you're right and how you proved everything already, then it's pointless to continue. I mean, who am I to debate the one who "speaks the unfiltered truth", lol.

 

[MockingJ]

Z+: (Ash-)Greninja
Z-: Peakachu

Come on, how is Ash-Greninja stronger than Pikachu at his prime? All that Ash-Greninja has in his favor is stamina whereas Pikachu probably can't handle too many blows given his small stature but we're talking about Pikachu here - the guy who defeated a Legendary and tied with another - whereas Ash-Greninja's greatest feats were what, beating some rookie's Mega Sceptile, almost but not really beating Diantha's Mega Gardevior and jobbing losing to Alain's Mega Charizard X?

 

[Dream Lad]

All that Ash-Greninja has in his favor is stamina whereas Pikachu probably can't handle too many blows given his small stature but we're talking about Pikachu here - the guy who defeated a Legendary and tied with another - whereas Ash-Greninja's greatest feats were what, beating some rookie's Mega Sceptile, almost but not really beating Diantha's Mega Gardevior and jobbing losing to Alain's Mega Charizard X?

I think Ash-Greninja showed tremendous raw power when Diantha allowed him to go full DBZ blitzkrieg on Gardevoir, but that doesn't equate to auto win against everyone. Maybe he is really the best, but current feats certainly don't confirm that.

He is always compared to Mega Charizard X, but the latter was struggling against 50% Zygarde. I know game stats being used are frowned upon in the anime, but 50% Zygarde's base stats are equal to Darkrai's and Latios' and only 20 more than Regice's and Articuno's. It's not as if Zygarde is an epic legendary like Primal Groudon (who wrecked Mega Charizard X easily). The idea that wins/draw against Articuno, Regice, Darkrai and Latios are considered inferior to quality losses to Mega Charizard X and a win against a rookie's Mega Sceptile is weird especially considering Mega Charizard X was not at all on the level of those legendaries that it faced, so the likes of a 'lower legendary' would naturally be a much more of an even contest that Mega Charizard X probably wins there (which Ash's Charizard did way back in Battle Frontier and has only become much more stronger). Greninja had type-advantage, noteworthy damage was delivered by Pikachu, got a move off thanks to Goodra's Rain Dance, and two prior battle experiences against this opponent, and still lost at the Kalos League as Mega Charizard X only winced/stumbled briefly at the end and that was it. If he's a clear level below Mega Charizard X, who itself struggles against legendaries, how is not that Pikachu and Charizard (and Sceptile to a lesser degree since he had chip damage from others) have the best feats bar none?

I think all of them are pretty even in the end. I think Charizard is the most consistent and battle-tested. Pikachu at peak league form with Z-move is probably the highest ceiling.

 

[Akkipeddi]

Wins against Darkrai, Latios, Regice and Articuno are considered inferior because of who they were used by. Darkrai and Latios were used by a league contestant, Regice was probably the weakest of the Regis used by Brandon, and Articuno a wild one tamed by a Frontier Brain. The anime has constantly shown that Elite Four and Champions are of a different league all together. I can guarantee that none of those legendaries above would stand a chance against an Elite Four's ace, much less champion, and MCX beat 10 Pokémon in a row which even included an Elite Four's Ace (first time we saw a non champion beat an E4). Also, Primal aside, don't forget that MCX did spar with a Champion's Mega Metagross and took a full Meteor Mash and looked all right. Previous instances of champions vs trainers ended in embarrassments for them, like Paul vs Cynthia and Trip vs Alder. So yes, the quality of opponents MCX fought were of a higher level than those legendaries listed.

 

[345ash-greninja]

I think Ash-Greninja showed tremendous raw power when Diantha allowed him to go full DBZ blitzkrieg on Gardevoir, but that doesn't equate to auto win against everyone. Maybe he is really the best, but current feats certainly don't confirm that.

He is always compared to Mega Charizard X, but the latter was struggling against 50% Zygarde. I know game stats being used are frowned upon in the anime, but 50% Zygarde's base stats are equal to Darkrai's and Latios' and only 20 more than Regice's and Articuno's. It's not as if Zygarde is an epic legendary like Primal Groudon (who wrecked Mega Charizard X easily). The idea that wins/draw against Articuno, Regice, Darkrai and Latios are considered inferior to quality losses to Mega Charizard X and a win against a rookie's Mega Sceptile is weird especially considering Mega Charizard X was not at all on the level of those legendaries that it faced, so the likes of a 'lower legendary' would naturally be a much more of an even contest that Mega Charizard X probably wins there (which Ash's Charizard did way back in Battle Frontier and has only become much more stronger). Greninja had type-advantage, noteworthy damage was delivered by Pikachu, got a move off thanks to Goodra's Rain Dance, and two prior battle experiences against this opponent, and still lost at the Kalos League as Mega Charizard X only winced/stumbled briefly at the end and that was it. If he's a clear level below Mega Charizard X, who itself struggles against legendaries, how is not that Pikachu and Charizard (and Sceptile to a lesser degree since he had chip damage from others) have the best feats bar none?

I think all of them are pretty even in the end. I think Charizard is the most consistent and battle-tested. Pikachu at peak league form with Z-move is probably the highest ceiling.

Considering that Perfect Zygarde was shown to be far, far, far, stronger than Steven's Mega Metagross + Diantha Mega Gardevoir + Malva's Mega Houndoom + Alain's Mega Charizard X + Ash-Greninja + Pikachu + all the other Pokemon that were present there (none of them could do jack to the Megalith together while Perfect Zygarde literally curbstomped the Megalith and Lysandre into oblivion), I'd say that 50% Zygarde anime wise logically would be on a completely different level compared to Legendaries like Articuno, Regice, Darkrai, Latios, etc. Cause if 50% Zygarde is even half as strong as Perfect Zygarde (which it should be considering two Zygarde cores combine to form Perfect Zygarde), it should literally obliterate Legendaries of Articuno's level. TBH based on the power level that was portrayed in the anime, I can't honestly see Articuno + Moltres + Zapdos laying a scratch on 50% Zygarde together. Also Mega Charizard X didn't really lose against 50% Zygarde or anything like that, it recovered from Extreme Speed pretty well and was ready to continue, plus Dragon Claw was definitely doing damage.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Here's some questions I have for everyone in this thread.

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Noland's Articuno 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Brandon's Regice 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Tobias's Darkrai 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Sawyer's Mega Sceptile 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Tobias's Latios 1 on 1?

 

[345ash-greninja]

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Noland's Articuno 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Brandon's Regice 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Tobias's Darkrai 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Sawyer's Mega Sceptile 1 on 1?

-Which of Ash's S-Tier pokemon can beat Tobias's Latios 1 on 1?

Now first of all, what actually classifies S-Tier? Sometime which is above A Tier? It depends upon how someone tiers Ash's Pokemon and classifies them into tiers, which would of course vary and differ from person to person.

For me personally, Pikachu (Peakachu), Charizard, Infernape (Blaze) and Sceptile all classifies into S Tier. Greninja (Ash-Greninja) IMO is a tier above them, which is why I place him at Z Tier. But if I'm considering him as well:

Peakachu and Charizard (as of BW) would defeat Noland's Articuno, Brandon's Regice, would tie/maybe barely win/lose against Tobias' Darkrai, Latios and Sawyer's Mega Sceptile.

Infernape (Blaze) would defeat Noland's Articuno, would tie/maybe barely win/lose against Brandon's Regice, would lose to Tobias' Darkrai, Latios and Sawyer's Mega Sceptile after a tough fight.

Sceptile has a massive type disadvantage against both Articuno and Regice, so it'd likely lose to both of them (if it was Registeel instead of Regice then Sceptile has a chance of winning though since it's a better matchup for Sceptile), and it isn't beating Tobias's Darkrai, Latios and Sawyer's Mega Sceptile 1 on 1.

Ash-Greninja would beat all 4 of those Legendaries, Articuno and Regice pretty decisively while Tobias' Darkrai, Latios and Sawyer's Mega Sceptile after a tough fight in a 1 vs 1.

 

[Dream Lad]

Wins against Darkrai, Latios, Regice and Articuno are considered inferior because of who they were used by. Darkrai and Latios were used by a league contestant, Regice was probably the weakest of the Regis used by Brandon, and Articuno a wild one tamed by a Frontier Brain. The anime has constantly shown that Elite Four and Champions are of a different league all together. I can guarantee that none of those legendaries above would stand a chance against an Elite Four's ace, much less champion, and MCX beat 10 Pokémon in a row which even included an Elite Four's Ace (first time we saw a non champion beat an E4). Also, Primal aside, don't forget that MCX did spar with a Champion's Mega Metagross and took a full Meteor Mash and looked all right. Previous instances of champions vs trainers ended in embarrassments for them, like Paul vs Cynthia and Trip vs Alder. So yes, the quality of opponents MCX fought were of a higher level than those legendaries listed.

Hmm, I feel there is too much value being put into the name value of an Elite 4 or Champion. Those legendaries should not be considered inherently weaker simply because they weren't owned by an Elite 4/Champion. Furthermore, Tobias won the Sinnoh League; his Darkrai was undefeated against everybody but Ash. His next opponents are the Elite 4/Champion. Frontier Brains, according to Scott (word of mouth of the writers), can be on par to the Elite 4. That clip of Palmer's Milotic going even against Cynthia's Garchomp further corroborates that they are no pushovers. Mega Charizard X fared well against Elite 4/Champion Pokemon, but when it went up against higher level or mid level legendaries, it was overwhelmed. It was not on their level whatsoever. And that makes sense, because the anime highly values the power of legendaries, and almost never (if ever) are they shown to be pushovers except against other greater legendaries. So, I don't see how Darkrai, Latios, Regice, and Articuno wouldn't be tough and much more even competition for Mega Charizard X. Yes, it probably could beat them, but they are definitely not going to be easy fights, considering what the anime has depicted. The overarching point here is that Greninja lost to this Charizard twice (three times if you include Ash collapsing [he's 1/2 of Ash-Greninja after all]), and Mega Charizard X only sort of momentarily winced and stumbled despite Greninja having prior experience against it, prior noteworthy damage delivered by Pikachu, and a free move of damage dished out thanks to Goodra's Rain Dance. I just don't see how a loss like that, even if it is a quality loss, is superior to wins against legendary Pokemon. As for the strongest Pokemon, the fact that Charizard accomplished that feat back in Battle Frontier, and only has gotten stronger (and he's the most battle tested of any of Ash's Pokemon), I think it's fair to say current Charizard would be more than deserved to be top dog.

Considering that Perfect Zygarde was shown to be far, far, far, stronger than Steven's Mega Metagross + Diantha Mega Gardevoir + Malva's Mega Houndoom + Alain's Mega Charizard X + Ash-Greninja + Pikachu + all the other Pokemon that were present there (none of them could do jack to the Megalith together while Perfect Zygarde literally curbstomped the Megalith and Lysandre into oblivion), I'd say that 50% Zygarde anime wise logically would be on a completely different level compared to Legendaries like Articuno, Regice, Darkrai, Latios, etc. Cause if 50% Zygarde is even half as strong as Perfect Zygarde (which it should be considering two Zygarde cores combine to form Perfect Zygarde), it should literally obliterate Legendaries of Articuno's level. TBH based on the power level that was portrayed in the anime, I can't honestly see Articuno + Moltres + Zapdos laying a scratch on 50% Zygarde together. Also Mega Charizard X didn't really lose against 50% Zygarde or anything like that, it recovered from Extreme Speed pretty well and was ready to continue, plus Dragon Claw was definitely doing damage.

Does 50% Zygarde necessarily imply exactly 50% of all stats of Perfect Zygarde? That's not how it is in the games anyway. Regardless, it's still proof that Mega Charizard X wasn't on the level of any of those legendaries. A much more even and closer fight would be the lower legendaries against Mega Charizard X.

 

[Leonhart]

Come on, how is Ash-Greninja stronger than Pikachu at his prime? All that Ash-Greninja has in his favor is stamina whereas Pikachu probably can't handle too many blows given his small stature but we're talking about Pikachu here - the guy who defeated a Legendary and tied with another - whereas Ash-Greninja's greatest feats were what, beating some rookie's Mega Sceptile, almost but not really beating Diantha's Mega Gardevior and jobbing losing to Alain's Mega Charizard X?

Admittedly I've always found the praise that Gekkouga received for its battle against Carnet's Mega Sirnight to be vastly overrated, but I don't think that Shota was really a rookie by the time that he faced Satoshi since by then he had already developed into a full-fledged trainer with enough skill to make it far in the Kalos League.