Yeah... I know! But your examples represent a person loathing something yet continuing to perform the act they loath of their own choice. To make it equate to being raped, the person would have to be forced to eat/smoke from a second party. Therefore the examples are not equal to being forced to have sex and the body reacting positively to the physical stimulus of intercourse (a natural response).
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Rape: Can a person who was raped enjoy the experience?
- Thread starter The Director
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I introduced the notion of smokers simply to highlight other forms of cognitive dissonance, Malanu, not to make any statement about whether the person chooses to receive a pleasure.
If you wanted, you could argue that in severe cases of addiction the addict loses their free will and doesn't inject/smoke/snort by choice any more, but it's not necessary. Cognitive dissonance has no requirement for the person to choose to receive a pleasure they sub/consciously don't want. And it IS possible to enjoy sex without legally consenting to it.
If you wanted, you could argue that in severe cases of addiction the addict loses their free will and doesn't inject/smoke/snort by choice any more, but it's not necessary. Cognitive dissonance has no requirement for the person to choose to receive a pleasure they sub/consciously don't want. And it IS possible to enjoy sex without legally consenting to it.
kaiser soze
Reading ADWD
Sigh...you don't experience cognitive dissonance with rape. Like Malanu said, rape, by definition, is the unconsensual act of a second party. You don't make an effort to get raped, and you need to make a decision to experience cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive dissonance with sex would be cheating on your significant other, not experiencing rape.
Cognitive dissonance with sex would be cheating on your significant other, not experiencing rape.
Cognitive dissonance can occur with rape, certainly not all the time but it is not impossible. You do not need to make a decision to experience cognitive dissonance.
Rape is defined as non-consensual intercourse. You can enjoy something and not consent to it. That is a fact.
Rape is defined as non-consensual intercourse. You can enjoy something and not consent to it. That is a fact.
I could be wrong, and I'd be happy to take a peek at anyone's pornographic scholarly sources if they can show otherwise, but according to my experience, unless the rapist prepares that woman with foreplay there's absolutely no chance that she could enjoy the intercourse, let alone climax. Unless she's in the mood, simply having an object up there isn't automatically going to bring her any pleasure. I can't imagine a realistic situation where a rapist rapes a woman and the victim gets any form of pleasure out of it. Could anyone provide any examples from the news maybe.
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CSolarstorm
New spicy version
So the majority of this thread is an effort to reconcile numerous definitions of what enjoyment is?
If they embraced that automatic physiological pleasure as their own at the time it happened, but the act made them feel violated and numb shortly after, and they looked back at it as a traumatic point in their life, deciding to define it as rape...exactly what is the value of looking at that momentary pleasure, especially considering how it adds to their dissonance that makes them suffer more, and asserting that it was 'enjoyment'?
If they embraced that automatic physiological pleasure as their own at the time it happened, but the act made them feel violated and numb shortly after, and they looked back at it as a traumatic point in their life, deciding to define it as rape...exactly what is the value of looking at that momentary pleasure, especially considering how it adds to their dissonance that makes them suffer more, and asserting that it was 'enjoyment'?
Why can't she be in the mood? It's possible to be horny and subconsciously not want sex. Happens all the time to adolescents struggling with vows of celibacy induced by abstinence programs.
Or, a person may be drunk or drugged and not give satisfactory legal consent despite being in the mood for sex at the time. There is a precedence for rape charges being laid in such a case, even if the victim was perfectly compliant at the time.
Also: KY Jelly
kaiser soze
Reading ADWD
Kids breaking a vow of celibacy are making a decision to have sex. You don't decide to be raped.
Bill Nye the Sneasel Guy
Well-Known Member
Statutory rape is still rape, since it's technically without legal consent, but it may still be agreed on by both parties and enjoyed, possibly.
By definition rape is non-consensual sex. It has nothing to do with any decisions you made leading up to the event. Regardless of whether you made bad choices that got you into the situation or whether it was totally out of your control, it is rape so long as you don't give consent.
Please note I am talking about legal rape here where consent is the kicker.
CSolarstorm
New spicy version
I know that is the operative definition, but somehow, I think it lacks some of the actual meaning of rape. I don't think people always call every instance of non-consensual sex 'rape', especially if it's mutually enjoyed and there are no problems had after it - there's more to the term. It has to have an intense situational wrongness behind it that sort of negates enjoyment. If it doesn't have that, then it's just technically rape, legal and philosophical - and I mean that in the most respectful way possible.
If it doesn't have that wrongness, then it certain doesn't have very much 'rightness' to it either. We don't have people trading stories with each other about how much fun they had being raped. If they do, then it becomes less of a big deal, the condition of being 'rape' is devalued and they might as well just be referring to consensual sex.
If it ends up in the category of rape for whatever reason, there are two reasons there's not enough enjoyment attached to rape to count. 1) Few will be especially proud or glowing of it, and 2) It works more for the victims of rape if we respect their conscious verdict on whether it is an enjoyable memory or a traumatic instance of intense dissonance. I mean, you wouldn't rub in a smoker's face how much they used to like tobacco after they already quit.
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A loophole Bill. Statutory rape is only rape because the "victim" is not legally allowed to give consent due to maturity issues.
A minor who willingly participate in sex, enjoy it fully, but legally is considered raped. They can even be the the instigator of the act and still be considered the victim!
So statutory should not be a part of this discussion... Or should it???
As a former meth addict, I chose to do the drug in the first place. and every time up until the day I said "I needed it". The choice was always mine to make. As was the choice to suffer the withdrawals. Addicts have the choice to quit or continue. They just need to be willing to accept the consequences of their decision. It took me leaving California (for 6 months!) and enduring the court martial for Unauthorized Absence (UA is the Marine AWOL) to clean up my act. So I will deny your armchair quarterback example. Every addict can choose to quit. It is just a question of them having the internal strength the will to see it through. In most cases the Addict freely chose to do the substance in the first place.
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Respectfully,this is a hypothetical. Can you provide any evidence demonstrating such a case? I may just be misunderstanding you, but what you're claiming doesn't match my experience, or the experience of anyone else (with experience) that I've ever talked to.
Hypothetical, of course, but it's still relevant to the debate. To my knowledge, this isn't a discussion between people who have been raped.
I don't wish to imply that anyone in particular enjoyed being raped, I am ONLY pointing out that it would not be far-fetched to hear of a situation where someone who enjoyed intercourse was also being raped (in a legal sense, anyway).
John Madden
resident policy guy
"I score a touchdown if u know what i mean..i rapted person and their now a raped. Im the guy, qb sexman 420" -Ben Rotelsboger
*spends the next 277 posts debating u*
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