RARE no longer the RARE gem it used to be

[G4Pokefan]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ne...ren-t-necessarily-what-you-want/1100-6418357/

when i read this blog, it actually had me heated. This guy is either in denial or just trying to mask the fact they aren't nothing anymore. I used to love RARE and the games they made. Most notably, DKC, Banjo, Goldeneye and Conker. Then Microsoft bought them selling them the idea that they would be 10x as better on their side than with Nintendo but deep down i believe it was just to give NInty a run for their money.

Fast forward 10some years later, what have they done? 3 Kinect Sports games, Kameo, Viva Pinata, A weird looking Banjo game that didn't even play like Banjo? I've lost all faith and respect in this company altogether. To think of the possibilities they could've accomplish while with Microsoft: New Banjo, Conker, Perfect Dark, GoldenEye, and dare I say it: Jet Force Gemini! Plus they were talented enough to start a whole new slew of franchises altogether. Downside i wouldn't have the kind of Donkey Kong I really loved back in the day (thanks Retro for reviving it but its not the same and its practically impossible to beat) or a new Diddy Kong Racing, but i'd get over that if Rare had all those games listed above in existence now.

Now I'm just gonna mourn the company it once was until they truly just pack it in. Anyone else have any memories of Rare?

 

[Bolt the Cat]

It's basically generic PR ********, Rare probably isn't doing anything more than casual crap like Kinect Sports. Microsoft and their fans usually have little interest in anything that isn't a bland, generic FPS game, they probably wouldn't bother with franchises like Banjo or Conker. That being said, I have no idea why they went after Rare in the first place, they don't seem like a good fit.

 

[Void Ventus]

I think I saw an article on N4G or GAF a few days ago saying Rare was finally let go from just making Kinect games, and are now allowed to use their old IPs. But you're still too late on this subject. Their last game was 5 or 6 years ago, with Banjo and Kazooie Nuts & Bolts. Since 2010, they've been making Kinect games. They didn't even work on Killer Instinct. Double Helix did that. And next month, Kinect Sports Champions 2 comes out.

Anyways, my fonly experiences with Rare games are from Donkey Kong Country 1 and a demo of Conker's Live and Reloaded. Both great games. DKC1 is still one of my favorite games ever. I liked the pre-rendered backgrounds and the models used for all the characters a lot more than whatever Retro did with Returns and Tropical Freeze.

 

[Genos]

Goldeneye was a masterpiece. 4 player-golden pistols was a fun fest.

If only Nintendo bought them during the 90's by 51% of the company.

 

[Breeder Drew]

It's basically generic PR ********, Rare probably isn't doing anything more than casual crap like Kinect Sports. Microsoft and their fans usually have little interest in anything that isn't a bland, generic FPS game, they probably wouldn't bother with franchises like Banjo or Conker. That being said, I have no idea why they went after Rare in the first place, they don't seem like a good fit.

Way to generalize. I'm sure the immense popularity of Viva Pinata, Civilization Revolution, and Forza proves that all Microsoft fans enjoy nothing more than CoD clones. One could say that Nintendo fans do the same thing, but with platformers and RPGs.

Anyway, Microsoft ran Rare into the ground, but these days I wouldn't trust Nintendo with them either. Nintendo has proven recently that they can't market anything successfully and I have no doubts they would have potentially done the same exact thing to Rare Microsoft did, just with the Wiimote and the Wii U tablet instead of the Kinect.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Way to generalize. I'm sure the immense popularity of Viva Pinata, Civilization Revolution, and Forza proves that all Microsoft fans enjoy nothing more than CoD clones. One could say that Nintendo fans do the same thing, but with platformers and RPGs.

Anyway, Microsoft ran Rare into the ground, but these days I wouldn't trust Nintendo with them either. Nintendo has proven recently that they can't market anything successfully and I have no doubts they would have potentially done the same exact thing to Rare Microsoft did, just with the Wiimote and the Wii U tablet instead of the Kinect.

I didn't say Microsoft ONLY enjoys shooters, just that they don't enjoy much of anything else. See, Nintendo may favor platformers and RPGs, but they actually have a fairly diverse lineup. They have racing games, fighting games, adventure games, RPGs, puzzle games, something that loosely qualifies as an FPS (this is perhaps the only major weak point in their lineup). Literally for just about every genre of video games, I can name a fairly prominent Nintendo IP that covers that genre. Microsoft, not so much, they mainly just do CoD, Gears of War, and Forza. Two shooters and a racing game. You won't see as many platformers or adventure games or RPGs or fighting games (although if Killer Instinct manages to catch on, that could change) on a Microsoft console. It's a much more limited variety of games than what you'd see from Nintendo and Sony.

Also unlike Microsoft, Nintendo doesn't include new control schemes for the sake of being gimmicky, they include them to actually benefit their games (although I will admit that the Wii U Gamepad isn't quite the revolution Nintendo was hoping it would be, that's the reason they're not as successful this gem as opposed to poor marketing). And Rare would probably have more creative freedom under Nintendo which would allow them to make the games they want, instead of just being forced to work on shovelware like they are now.

 

[Charizard Champion#06]

This isn't news. Rare's been crap for years now.

 

[Avenger Angel]

Yeah, I miss the kind of games Rare used to make. They were fun, adventurous, and had a knack for making awesome, enjoyable new franchises that were fun to visit again and again. Banjo and Kazooie was great if you wanted a clean, fun, and enjoyable platformer game, and Conker was... heh, heh, very much the same way with a dash of adult humor instead.

And I doubt anyone will forget Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. If not for Rare, I don't think the N64 would have been as great of a console as it was.

 

[blaze boy]

Rare was going downhill at the time Nintendo sold them off.

If only Nintendo bought them during the 90's by 51% of the company.

Nintendo did have the chance to buy Rare but chose not to because the Stamper bros was asking for too much and Nintendo knew that Rare wasn't worth price they were asking.

Anyway, Microsoft ran Rare into the ground, but these days I wouldn't trust Nintendo with them either. Nintendo has proven recently that they can't market anything successfully and I have no doubts they would have potentially done the same exact thing to Rare Microsoft did, just with the Wiimote and the Wii U tablet instead of the Kinect.

Oh sure like how Nintendo ran Retro studio into the ground with Wiimote and Wii U tablet, oh wait they didn't. Furthermore Nintendo inability to market anything wouldn't affect Nintendo owning Rare. If anything Rare would have been better of with Nintendo since the fan base for Rare's games are on Nintendo system, hence why they bombed in sales on the Xbox and 360 until Kinect sport.

Furthermore Rare best selling games when they were with Nintendo was the Donkey Kong Country series and Golden Eye, the rest had average sales.

 

[-Raiga-]

And I doubt anyone will forget Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. If not for Rare, I don't think the N64 would have been as great of a console as it was.

Personally, I'd say those two games set the groundwork for every successful FPS that followed. There's no understating how much impact Rare HAD on the gaming industry.


Anyways, on the topic at hand. I feel like it's unfair to an extent, to blame a company for what it produces under the hand of it's parent company. I think it speaks for itself that a smaller studio was able to find success in the N64's time period when there was drastically more freedom in game development, only to fall short under the direction of a pretty linear company in terms of the market they are after(microsoft)

I don't think it's any one persons fault, just wrong decisions all around the board.

 

[Rain Dance]

...I thought Nuts and Bolts WASN'T developed by Rare? Wow, that's depressing. But yeah, I've been poking into these videos recently. Dammit Microsoft, you ruined so much great talent...

I have never owned a Nintendo 64, but even I knew how good Rare was. Goldeneye, Conker, Banjo-Kazooie, and all of those DK games... Damn, it is a shame. kinda reminds me what happened to my Beloved Spyro :c

 

[Dragoniss]

I really wouldn't say Rare is crap now, I mean the games they have put out haven't been horrible. Yes this includes Nuts and Bolts and, while this may not be meant for here i'll explain why:

I feel like the ONLY reason Nuts and Bolts is considered a bad game is because it has Banjo Kazooie in the title. Nuts and Bolts isn't a bad game, it's a bad Banjo Kazooie game. I like to relate it to Starfox Adventures. Adventures was really never supposed to be the classic Starfox game like it was advertised [hell it wasn't supposed to be a Starfox game to begin with], it was supposed to be it's own action adventure. However it came out at a time where a Starfox game hadn't been made in years, so when people heard a new Starfox game they thought of 64. I feel like if you play Adventures with out the mindset of "this is supposed to be a Starfox game" then it is a rather enjoyable time. Same thing applies here. This game came out at a time when fans were yearning for the alleged Banjo Threeie, so when the arguably misrepresented teasers were shown we jumped to that idea and clung to it like out life depended on it, only to be disappointed when the game finally launched. If you play Nuts and Bolts with out the mindset of it being a Banjo Kazooie game it is quite a bit better. Yeah that's hard with the story and the characters but once you get used to it it's certainly not crap. At the VERRY least the writing is still great.

Now back to the topic at hand I really think it's...not fair to call Rare garbage when they are being controlled by Microsoft. They are under more restrictions now and if I remember on an episode of Game Grumps when they had Grant Kirkhope as a guest [I still don't know how they managed to do that] he stated that he wished they or at least a team could get out from under Microsoft's proverbial boot and go back to Nintendo then proceed to beg them to allow for Banjo Threeie to be made. Honestly the drive is still there it's just Microsoft isn't letting them do what they want. Or rather it's harder for them to do it under Microsoft's direction.

 

[G4Pokefan]

Now back to the topic at hand I really think it's...not fair to call Rare garbage when they are being controlled by Microsoft. They are under more restrictions now and if I remember on an episode of Game Grumps when they had Grant Kirkhope as a guest [I still don't know how they managed to do that] he stated that he wished they or at least a team could get out from under Microsoft's proverbial boot and go back to Nintendo then proceed to beg them to allow for Banjo Threeie to be made. Honestly the drive is still there it's just Microsoft isn't letting them do what they want. Or rather it's harder for them to do it under Microsoft's direction.

Wow never heard about that. So they actually admitted to not wanting to be with Microsoft anymore and wanted to go back to Nintendo? But i'm guessing since they're still under contract with Microsoft, if they either walk or refuse to make games, they'll be sued for breach of contract or whatnot, and end up in worse shape than they are now or become non-exsistent. SMH ruthless businesses in the world

 

[BCVM22]

So they actually admitted to not wanting to be with Microsoft anymore and wanted to go back to Nintendo?

One individual does not equal "they", and even better, a composer - not a programmer, not an artist, not a producer, the guy responsible for the music - does not equal they.

But i'm guessing since they're still under contract with Microsoft, if they either walk or refuse to make games

But nothing says they would try to "walk" or refuse to do the very work they exist to do. Why are you making up fiction here?

they'll be sued for breach of contract or whatnot, and end up in worse shape than they are now or become non-exsistent. SMH ruthless businesses in the world

No, stop shaking [your] head. This is not accurate. Visible and distinct breach of contract would not "ruthless businesses in the world" nor is there a "contract" at work here - Microsoft owns Rare, 100%. Rare is a studio of Microsoft. That's not a "contract". That's a parent company dictating to their subsidiary the work they will be doing, which is how business works and also is not "ruthless businesses in the world".

You've somehow managed to take what would seem to be a small interview and misinterpret it and turn it into something completely opposite than what it would logically be, and while that's perhaps partially the fault of how vaguely it was described to you as much as anything else, you've still not interpreted anything here logically or accurately. While I have no doubt Mr. Kirkhope has far more insight into the Rare personnel who remain from the Nintendo years than do I or you, what he said does not appear to be tantamount to "OMG HELP US MICROSOFT IS AWFUL GET US OUT OF HERE!"

It says yes, Microsoft has them doing different - sometimes very different - work than did Nintendo. Anyone can tell you that from looking at Rare's work of the last decade or so. But if any of Rare's current employees look at that body of work and feel the work he or she is being paid to do doesn't suit his or her career as a game developer, they're more than welcome to tender a resignation and take their services elsewhere. This isn't slavery, but this is also not a field, a business or a world where one is paid to do a job but then instead of doing that job, one sits there and mopes it isn't the work done in years past.

 

[Avenger Angel]

Personally, I'd say those two games set the groundwork for every successful FPS that followed. There's no understating how much impact Rare HAD on the gaming industry.

And yet one can't help but wonder what Rare did that made Goldeneye and Perfect Dark just work so well.

Thing with Goldeneye is that if you wanted to take the game seriously, do all the mission objectives according to expectation, and play the game the way you were "supposed" to, you could and there was no problem with that. If you wanted to screw around, turn on "Big Head Mode," go nuts with rocket launchers and infinite ammo, and turn on the paintball mode for giggles, you could do that too. The game wouldn't kick you out for failing mission objectives. It would just say "Objective A: Failed" and whatever and you could go about doing whatever you liked. The only catch was you'd have to start over if you wanted to advance. The other thing about Goldeneye was the maps were not linear, save for a few cases. The Surface levels in particular felt huge, and you had to explore most of the map in order to accomplish all the objectives. Plus, the Agent difficulty was easy, whereas the 00 Agent difficulty was tough and challenging, but not mindlessly impossible.

So many games now get this recipe totally wrong. Failing a mission objective means instantly having to start over, so you're not allow to screw around and instead, it's like you're following some kind of script. No cheats, linear maps, specific instructions. "Go to Point B." "Use this weapon on this thing." "Follow me." Heck, very often, you have some other character even barking at you if you go in the wrong direction. Ironically, it seems the more alone your character is on a mission, the more free they really are to do things however they'd like. In any case, Rare's games used to feel like the creators actually played the games to make sure they were fun, engaging, and enjoyable. And the games felt complete without the need for a buttload of downloadable content. Now, it's more about just vomiting out another game before some deadline, resulting in premature games that are loaded with bugs, aren't nearly as much fun, and are hiding all of the extra stuff in DLC packages just to squeeze in more cash.

 

[Dragoniss]

One individual does not equal "they", and even better, a composer - not a programmer, not an artist, not a producer, the guy responsible for the music - does not equal they.



But nothing says they would try to "walk" or refuse to do the very work they exist to do. Why are you making up fiction here?



No, stop shaking [your] head. This is not accurate. Visible and distinct breach of contract would not "ruthless businesses in the world" nor is there a "contract" at work here - Microsoft owns Rare, 100%. Rare is a studio of Microsoft. That's not a "contract". That's a parent company dictating to their subsidiary the work they will be doing, which is how business works and also is not "ruthless businesses in the world".

You've somehow managed to take what would seem to be a small interview and misinterpret it and turn it into something completely opposite than what it would logically be, and while that's perhaps partially the fault of how vaguely it was described to you as much as anything else, you've still not interpreted anything here logically or accurately. While I have no doubt Mr. Kirkhope has far more insight into the Rare personnel who remain from the Nintendo years than do I or you, what he said does not appear to be tantamount to "OMG HELP US MICROSOFT IS AWFUL GET US OUT OF HERE!"

It says yes, Microsoft has them doing different - sometimes very different - work than did Nintendo. Anyone can tell you that from looking at Rare's work of the last decade or so. But if any of Rare's current employees look at that body of work and feel the work he or she is being paid to do doesn't suit his or her career as a game developer, they're more than welcome to tender a resignation and take their services elsewhere. This isn't slavery, but this is also not a field, a business or a world where one is paid to do a job but then instead of doing that job, one sits there and mopes it isn't the work done in years past.

If it need's to be elaborated on he just feels that he and a close group of people in RARE it's self do want to go to Nintendo and make the game happen. And it's not fully because Microsoft is bad or anything it was more or less because the BK series originated on a Nintendo system. It would be appealing to the fan's at this point. And I do agree that it is clear Microsoft is doing something in terms of the direction they are allowing RARE to take. Again it's not really a bad thing per-say but it's just...well...different. I do believe he and a small group of people still at RARE that worked on the first to BK games have gone on record to say they weren't happy with nut's and bolts. Now I may be remembering wrong because this was coming from a while ago when I watched the commentary series him and a bunch of old RARE members were doing on conkers bad fur day and the commentary he did on game grumps, but it's clear some people didn't like the decisions made. And honestly I wouldn't doubt that.

I was more or less just referencing that there is still a passion and a drive there, it's just a matter of if they can or would be allowed to do it. It's not like they have given up hope if Grant count's for anyone. He may be just a composer but he's a major figure in RARE, especially music wise. Whatever happen's though happens. It's really not their choice at this point, like you said they are owned by Microsoft. Weather one thinks Microsoft is a bad company is up to personal opinion. I for one can say I feel they have made some questionable decisions, especially in recent history but they are successful with what they do. So really it's not like at least some members of RARE don't want to make what fan's want, it's just they can't at the current time. This can change in the future though. I honestly hope it does because RARE is still a company that can take a title and still somehow make it a good game.

 

[Void Ventus]

If it need's to be elaborated on he just feels that he and a close group of people in RARE it's self do want to go to Nintendo and make the game happen. And it's not fully because Microsoft is bad or anything it was more or less because the BK series originated on a Nintendo system. It would be appealing to the fan's at this point. And I do agree that it is clear Microsoft is doing something in terms of the direction they are allowing RARE to take. Again it's not really a bad thing per-say but it's just...well...different. I do believe he and a small group of people still at RARE that worked on the first to BK games have gone on record to say they weren't happy with nut's and bolts. Now I may be remembering wrong because this was coming from a while ago when I watched the commentary series him and a bunch of old RARE members were doing on conkers bad fur day and the commentary he did on game grumps, but it's clear some people didn't like the decisions made. And honestly I wouldn't doubt that.

I was more or less just referencing that there is still a passion and a drive there, it's just a matter of if they can or would be allowed to do it. It's not like they have given up hope if Grant count's for anyone. He may be just a composer but he's a major figure in RARE, especially music wise. Whatever happen's though happens. It's really not their choice at this point, like you said they are owned by Microsoft. Weather one thinks Microsoft is a bad company is up to personal opinion. I for one can say I feel they have made some questionable decisions, especially in recent history but they are successful with what they do. So really it's not like at least some members of RARE don't want to make what fan's want, it's just they can't at the current time. This can change in the future though. I honestly hope it does because RARE is still a company that can take a title and still somehow make it a good game.

The developers can just quit. Rare as a company is owned by Microsoft, but they don't own the developers working there. A lot of the old talent is already anyways. Some have went on to create their own gaming companies and make indie games, some work for other gaming companies, and others have went back to Nintendo. Microsoft just revived Killer Instinct for the Xbone launch, but it was given to Double Helix instead of Rare. Like my earlier comment said, there's a rumor that Rare is not limited to just making Kinect games anymore. If they make a new Perfect Dark or Banjo & Kazooie, will the same quality he there as in the N64 titles? Maybe, maybe not. The old talent is gone, so the newer devs there will have to prove themselves.

 

[Avenger Angel]

Yeah, I have a feeling a "remake" won't feel like a real remake. Great example is the Goldeneye remake. Absolutely nothing like the original, and though I haven't played it, I've heard it's nowhere near as good.

I think gamer culture has changed over the many years as well.

 

[Gamer Fluttershy]

Rareware should hang themselves.