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Razor Wind's New OU Team

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Razor Wind, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    After consideration, I changed some of my Pokemon due to weakness and resistance issues.

    Greetings everyone, my name is Razor Wind and I've just recently finished planning for a new team. Here's my very first RMT thread on serebii. I hope you guys read it carefully and tell me about any mistakes, as the whole point of RMT is to change what is wrong into right :)

    Ok enough with the introduction, let me just cut to the chase.

    The Team:


    Machamp @ Lum Berry
    Ability: No Guard (This Pokemon won't miss)
    EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
    - DynamicPunch
    - Bullet Punch
    - Payback
    - Protect

    After a pretty long consideration, I've decided to change my lead from Metagross to a Machamp due to weakness and resistance issues. Machamp serves as a decent lead with a good Attack and Defense, this makes Machamp hard to beat unless Special Moves are used. Protect can be used to well... protect, while at the same time knowing what the enemy is trying to do, if necessary, Machamp can be switched into other Pokemon. Dynamic Punch is the main STAB move with the 100% confusing rate. Bullet Punch gives Machamp a priority move to deal with faster but less-bulky enemies. These moves are 100% accurate thanks to the ability, and with a decent 130 Base Attack, this makes Machamp a scary monster to deal with. Payback on the other hand, provides super effective damage to Psychic type Pokemon which Machamp is weak to.


    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Ability: Natural Cure (Heals any status ailments upon switching out)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SP.DEF
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Chansey is one of the Special Defense stall thanks to its decent 250 base HP and eviolite. Seismic Toss is pretty straight forward, dealing 100 HP to the enemy. While after some thinking, I've decided to change Stealth Rock to another Pokemon in the team. This would give me an extra spot for Protect. The main purpose of this set is to stall most Special Attack enemy. Wish makes Chansey restore HP the next round, which can be ensured no harm done by the usage of Protect. Wish can also be transferred to other Pokemon in the team, which in my opinion, was better than Softboiled ( Thank you very much Hayabusa, really appreciate it ^.^ )


    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace (Secondary effect chances are doubled.)
    EVs: 252 Attack 252 Speed 4 SP.DEF
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-Turn
    - Thunder Punch

    It's Jirachi, the wish maker Pokemon. With a Choice Scarf equipped, Iron Head ( Jirachi's primary STAB move) can deal decent damage to the opponents while at the same time, having high odds of making them flinch thanks to its Serene Grace ability. As you may or may not know, Serene Grace doubles the chance of a move's secondary effect, Ice Punch can easily deal with enemies like Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus, so having an Ice Punch in the moveset isn't bad. Since this is a Choice Scarfed Jirachi, picking a move is important. ThunderPunch can be used to defeat several Water type OUs such as Gyarados and Starmie. U-turn is introduced, when the enemy has attacks and Jirachi is weak to, and Jirachi doesn't have a move to deal with the situation, not only it can hurt the enemy slightly, but also gives Jirachi the chance to switch into...


    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
    EVs: 252 SP.ATK / 252 Speed / 4 HP
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power (Fire)
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor

    Yup, Latias' most reliable twin brother, Latios. After a brief consideration, I noticed that Jirachi is weak to Fire and Ground, which Latios can resist (Due to its Dragon typing and its Levitate ability). Draco Meteor (140 base power and STAB with the help of Choice Specs), is obviously Latios' primary move. Draco Meteor with Choice Specs equipped can easily OHKO every Dragon Type Pokemon. ( Dragonite after Stealth Rock damage due to its Multiscale ability), as well as hurting other Pokemon as hard and as painful as possibe. Psyshock can deal with Fighting types such as Infernape which at the same time providing physical damage to the enemy. While Hidden Power can deal with walls such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory, it can also be used to deal with Scizor who would otherwise kill Latios. In case you haven't notice, my whole team lacks Water type attacks. Even without STAB, Surf with Choice Specs can even OHKO a Terrakion after Stealth Rock damage, It shows how strong Surf is with the assistance of Choice Specs.


    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy (Prevents OHKO when user has a full health)
    EVs: 252 HP 252 DEF 4 Attack
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Shard

    The primary purpose of this set is to use a defensive wall to Rapid Spin off Entry Hazards, which my 2 Choiced Pokemon are scared of every time they have to switch to change moves. in certain situations, Donphan can take the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock on the enemy's side. Earthquake serves as a STAB that can deal with Jirachi, even though no EVs are invested in Donphan, it is also good enough to 2H to 3HKO Pokemon that doesn't resist Ground. Ice Shard provides a priority move to deal with Dragon/Flying or Ground/Flying. It can also be used as a last resort before the enemy kills me.


    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
    EVs: 252 SP.ATk / 252 Speed / 4 SP.DEF
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split
    - Substitute
    - Focus Blast

    The following Pokemon in my team is Gengar. After considering the replies about how Focus Sash doesn't work well with Gengar, I've changed it into Life Orb, which serves as a 10% Attack booster. Shadow Ball is the main STAB move, easily dealing with pure Psychic typed such as Reuniclus. Focus Blast is served to defeat Steel or Rock types such as Lucario. It also provides a slight coverage to Scizor. Substitute uses up 1/4 of Gengar's HP to make a decoy. The wasted HP can be restored by easily using Pain Split on the enemies. Such situations can occur during fights with Chansey.

    PROS and CONS
    This team serves perfectly balance in both offensive and defensive, making it a decent team. However, there are still some problems that this team faces frequently.

    Latios can easily OHKO or 2HKO everything that does not resist Dragon with a Draco Meteor. Even common weather leads such as Tyranitar, Politoed, Ninetales can be OHKO'ed by it. ( Although in some cases Ttar requires 2 Draco Meteors). This team also consists of Machamp that has decent bulk and strong STAB that causes 100% confusion. This Pokemon can come in handy in some situations. There are also walls such as Chansey which serves as a Specially Defensive Wall, there is also Donphan with a Sturdy ability to ensure that Stealth Rock can be safely set up. Rapid Spin can also be used to Spin its way off entry hazards. Jirachi with a good variety of moves, can outspeed others with its Choice Scarf and OHKO - 2HKO enemies with their weaknesses. Gengar can be used to deal with enemies with high HP with the Substitute + Life Orb + Pain Split strategy.


    There is no doubt that this team will face some problems against some strong Steel type Pokemon. There are several weaknesses of this team which this team has to deal with.

    With a natural decent bulk, Jirachi poses a thread to this team. Especially in rainy days. During rainy days, Jirachi has plenty of time to set up Calm Mind if they are using the Calm Mind set. Even Choice Specs Latios' Hidden Power Fire is no match in the rain. This provides a problem that Jirachi sets up Calm Mind and easily sweep of my team. In fact, Jirachi's Fire Punch deals less damage comparing to Latios' Hidden Power against the foe's Jirachi. Which Latios' Hidden Power deals about 28% to 33% damage providing it has full HP EV. Which Calm Mind reduces this number more and more.

    As aforementioned, raining causes Scizor to able to set up efficiently and sweep using Bullet Punch. The highest Latios can deal to Scizor is about 72% damage which provides Scizor a chance to set up its Swords Dance. After a Swords Dance +2 boost, Scizor's Bullet Punch ( with assistance provided by Technician, Adamant, Life Orb and Evs in attack ) can easily OHKO those who don't resist Steel or weak against steel. Even Chansey is OHKO'ed by SuperPower after a Swords Dance boost. This causes a bad situation for the team to handle.

    Suggestions on how to improve the team are always welcomed :D

    1- Smogon for the movesets.
    2- PLDH for providing the sprites and the artworks.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  2. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Looks good, but since your only Ground resistance are Levitating, be careful of Mold Breakers.
    Gengar- Black Sludge > Focus Sash (unless you really really really hate Scizor, but then it'd need HP Fire), Sub > Protect and Focus Blast > Psychic/EBall, depends on what pokes you have trouble with.
    Rest looks good.
    Lucario, I tested long ago, and from experience I can tell that it's really not that powerful. I recommend a special because of that, also packs a super effective surprise factor.

    Good luck with the team ^-^
  3. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    How about this?
    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
    EVs: 252 SP.ATk / 252 Speed / 4 SP.DEF
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Substitute
    - Focus Blast

    I figure I would best keep Psychic with me, it may come in handy in some situations

    In that case, should I go with Scizor instead?
  4. Hayabusa

    Hayabusa Bona fide Narutard.

    There are a lot of things that I see wrong with this team. First off, you've got 3 steel types. Fire/Fighting types (Infernape for example) will wreck you, seeing as how you'll be easy to predict, allowing pokes like Infernape to come in. A Mold Breaker sweeper with Earthquake will also spell your defeat, given you have 4 pokemon weak to EQ (Gengar too, because of Mold Breaker canceling out Levitate).

    You're going to be too easy to predict, given you have 3 Pokemon with Choice items. Any good player will realize you're stuck in one move, switch out to something that can status, and status you on the switch.
    With entry hazards up on the enemy team (you don't have Rapid Spin to clear them, even), all that switching thanks to your Choice items means you're going to take a TON of passive damage. You can't afford to take any passive damage either, especially given two of your other Pokemon have Life Orb, and Chansey doesn't even have Wish.

    Next, Gengar has Focus Sash, and he's not a lead. Focus Sash does not work well at all, unless it's on your lead Pokemon. There are just too many forms of passive damage that will render his Focus Sash useless before he even gets to use it. (If he comes in on Stealth Rock, for example, the Sash is broken).

    Those are the problems that I can find just off the top of my head, so I'm sure someone who knows the Meta game in 5th gen could point out even more. Overall, it seems like you went to Smogon, picked 5 of your favorite sweepers (without even considering a threat list, or what kind of move coverage you need) + Chansey and called it a team. Go back to the drawing board, IMO.
  5. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Infernape mangles your team, with everything except Latios dying to Close Combat or Overheat, and Latios doesn't appreciate eating U-Turn. Replace Lucario with an Infernape counter.

    I'd recommend running AgiliGross over BandGross. While the drop in power is noticeable, the ability to outspeed almost all common threats is a plus.

    That's all for now, I'll do a full rate tomorrow.

    Also, just noticed your complete exposure to entry hazards and lack of a decent spinner, so replace Lucario with

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Timid - Natural Cure
    252 Speed, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 HP
    -Rapid Spin
    -Recover / Ice Beam

    Gives you some padding for Infernape (although he still doesn't like taking U-Turn), and Rapid Spin support.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  6. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Also, you mention Conkeldurr and Psyshock. Psychic does more damage on it than Psyshock.
  7. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu class on my back

    as the guy above me said, once latios is down, infernape will completely rip through your team with ease. A slowbro would be good, as it can tank infernapes hits :p

    and pretty sexy banners, who made them?
  8. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    Wow, you sound a little harsh, but still I appreciate it, 'cuz I know you are being honest and tell me my team's weakness. I will reconsider what you said, so I am really happy 'cuz you've been a big help.
    Like mentioned in my previous reply to the thread, how about this set of Gengar?
    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
    EVs: 252 SP.ATk / 252 Speed / 4 SP.DEF
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Substitute
    - Focus Blast

    I was thinking about using AgilityGross before posting the thread though, I was having problems deciding between Band and Agility. Thanks for the comment, I will try my best to change what's lacked :)

    Should I go with a Starmie or a Slowbro? Cuz as SevenSevens said, my team lacks a decent spinner. Still, Slowbro has decent defenses to tank most enemy. BTW, I made them.

    Got it, thanks ^.^
  9. Ice beam is failry redunat on latios cause you can hit dragons with draco and ground types with surf. thunderbolt would probably be better , or hp fie (beware lower speed IV though)
    Jolly over adamant on scarf rachi so you outpace genesect scarf sets, and tie to mence.
    Focus blast/shadow ball have perfect coverage, so gengar might want to pack focus blast over any of its other 3 attacks
    And somethingto take a fire move is recommended, as latios is the only one, and latios is rather fragile, no recovery, so with stealth rock up and being forced to switch due to specs and pursuit trabble by ttar/scizor, latios is not the most reliable fire resist, seeing as yoou have 3 weaknesses to fire, gengar has paper defense and hcansey isn't too good against any mixed fire user (like nape) or a physichal one (like darmanitan or arcanine)
  10. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    Yup, I've already realised most of the mistakes, but still thanks for replying though :)
    I'm reconstructing my team right now, so the edit of the team will be updated soon.
  11. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Another solid Infernape counter is Intimidate Salamence, although he provides no spin support.

    Salamence @ Lum Berry / Yache Berry
    Nature: Jolly
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 HP
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage / Dragon Claw
    -Roost / Fire Blast

    Normally this will force Infernape to U-Turn or switch, letting you set up a free Dragon Dance and murder the switchin. Outrage and Earthquake hit everything in the game for neutral coverage, except a select few Levitaters and Skarmory, all of whom are roasted by Fire Blast, but you could opt for the healing provided by Roost instead.
  12. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    But what if Infernape knows Stone Edge which has a high critical ratio?
  13. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Then he'll be able to take out Salamence. :p

    However, keep in mind if it carries Stone Edge it's probably a physical set, and Metagross should be able to tank a hit and KO with Earthquake. MixApe is the most threatening, and it doesn't carry Stone Edge.
  14. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    Oh, in that case Roost can easily eliminate it's weakness to Rock type attacks right?
  15. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Only if you get a Dragon Dance off before Infernape comes in, otherwise he outspeeds you.

    You know, on second thought, it might just be easier to use Starmie to KO Infernape.
  16. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    True.. that I agree .___.
  17. Hayabusa

    Hayabusa Bona fide Narutard.

    You made some good improvements.

    Here's what I see tripping up a lot of competitive battlers, in that they are made more predictable: too much reliance on Smogon movesets, and too many Pokemon with Choice items. You've kind of got this same problem, unfortunately.

    I see the possibility of a Stall team wrecking you, especially since you're constantly switching, have Pokemon with low defenses and small HP pools (not to mention, these Pokemon are carrying Life Orbs, too). This means every switch into Stealth Rock and Spikes will cost you, and you can't afford this cost, because each turn you'll be taking damage with Life Orb, too (assuming you're attacking).

    You've also still got your weakness to Fire to worry about. So, here's what I suggest:

    1) Take off a steel Pokemon

    2) Have a dedicated Rapid Spinner for your team, since it's offensive based and can't handle passive damage well.

    3) Use a Taunt lead. This will prevent Stealth Rock from being setup. Pokemon with access to Prankster AND Taunt would help you out a lot here.

    4) Give Chansey Wish + Protect. Your logic for using Softboiled over Wish here is flawed, because Wish + Protect is two turns for Toxic to kick in, too. You're not waiting for that second turn and dying either, thanks to Protect. The rare Pokemon with Feint can ruin this strategy, but it's pretty rare. Giving Chansey Wish will also help mitigate some of the damage that your team will be taking. Simply Wish and switch to heal others.

    5) If you're going to have more than 1 Steel Pokemon with the same set of weaknesses, add a Pokemon with Flash Fire.

    6) Add a dedicated Physical Wall. If Chansey eats something like a Psyshock that is commonly seen on Special Sweepers, you're kind of done. You need something to switch to with High Defense to fix this problem.

    I'm not going to suggest specific Pokemon like other people have, just because it's a simple copy and paste for you. In other words, other people will have made your team. You won't actually like playing with your team if someone else just handed you one like that (at least, I wouldn't).

    Really consider the Threat list that Smogon talks about at the end of each Pokemon's articles (I.E. the "Checks and Counters" section at the end of each article). Re-read your Pokemon's Checks and Counters sections there, and then reform the team. You're off to a good start, though.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  18. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    What exactly do you mean by a dedicated Rapid Spinner? How about Starmie?

    I agree to the last one, I really do need a Wall..
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  19. Hayabusa

    Hayabusa Bona fide Narutard.

    What I mean by dedicated in this case is, something that can prevent Stealth Rock from being setup full time - using your Starmie to counter your team's greatest weakness AND to Rapid Spin means it will be spread too thinly. Not only that, its small amount of HP and Life Orb means Starmie won't be alive that long (also consider a case where Infinite Hail or Sandstorm is up on the field).

    You don't even have to have Rapid Spin in Gen. 5, though. The Magic Bounce ability, or even a lead with Magic Coat could work to reflect Stealth Rock back onto your opponent's team. Pokemon who have Magic Bounce are Xatu and Espeon. And the list of Magic Coat users can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/magic_coat

    Why not instead of adding one Pokemon to combat your triple weakness to Fire/Fighting while preventing Stealth Rock, you make it so switching is less of a consequence to yourself by fixing your team's redundant typing.
    Too many Pokemon are weak to the ubiquitous EQ/Fighting + EQ/Fire combos, so you should change your lineup. You had the right idea when you paired Gengar with Chansey - they protect each other by Gengar absorbing physical normal/fighting type moves aimed at Chansey, and Chansey absorbing annoying things aimed at Gengar like T-Wave via Natural Cure. In other words, do more of this. Protect your steel types by pairing them with Water types (Slowbro, who is a physical wall, comes to mind), for example.
  20. Razor Wind

    Razor Wind The Heartless Absol

    So yea, after re-re-re-re-rereading this post, I've made some serious consideration and tried to change according to the flaws you mentioned. Does it look better now? Or does it get worse? >.<
    Please don't be worse since I used the whole night to do this thing T.T

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