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Red beat Giovanni HOW?

Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
So while I had the original Viz releases of Special, I was missing volume 3. So um...

I get that Red beat Giovanni by getting the attack out a second faster than Giovanni calculated. But I'm still wondering how the heck it managed to knock out Nidoqueen anyway, given that electric attacks shouldn't affect Nidoqueen at *all*.

Not to mention something a bit smaller...so to speak. So I get the part with Blue (girl) suddenly having huge boobs. I know what happened in the original part. But when did she put them in? Given that earlier that same PAGE they were normal size, and Sabrina was watching her the ENTIRE TIME. So what th...
 
For the latter, it'd sort of give it away if they illustrated her with huge knockers the entire time.

As for the former, Red's Pikachu already affected another ground-type (Koga's mutated Rhydon) before, so there's no reason as to why they can't do the same here. This may be the most faithful adaptation of the games, but it doesn't have to follow suit 100%; the anime's guilty of the same thing, as early as the first gym, and I haven't watched it in nearly a decade.

I was seriously expecting more of an intelligent discussion from this, such as how Red can just knock out a total of two of Gio's Pokemon and still be considered a victor, and whatnot. Meh, both his victories against Giovanni were strokes of pure luck, anyway.
 

BlitzBlast

Busy with School
The reason Pika won was because the electricity had been supercharged; in Special, if electricity is supercharged, it can do anything (Gigavolt and Super Rising Thunder). Being more serious, it's likely that while the electricity did not harm Nidoqueen (much, it probably got some soot and maybe a burn), the resulting explosion did.

Also, he won the second time due to the fact Red had gotten a lot better at strategy, and because he had FREAKING MEWTWO.
 

Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
For the latter, it'd sort of give it away if they illustrated her with huge knockers the entire time.

But within the same page? With the only opportunity to stow the pokeballs being while Sabrina is staring right at her? They could have had her do it pretty much ANY point earlier.

Superpowered Pika? Where? How?
 
Well, Red and Mewtwo were actually on the ropes the entire time, and the reason they managed to pull off a win in the end was due to Deoxys' form change to Speed Form getting disabled, really. There's no way they could have hit him while he was that fast, which indeed counts as a stroke of luck. Deoxys was kicking Mewtwo's ass to the point of impaling its chest and forcing Red to hide his partner out in that artificial energy prism and whatnot, for shit's sake.
 
In a few years, the game creators are gonna change Pikachu's ability to something on the lines of "Electric moves will hit ground types for neutral/super effective damage", kinda like what they did to some normal types when they hit ghost types
 
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Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
Well, Red and Mewtwo were actually on the ropes the entire time, and the reason they managed to pull off a win in the end was due to Deoxys' form change to Speed Form getting disabled, really. There's no way they could have hit him while he was that fast, which indeed counts as a stroke of luck. Deoxys was kicking Mewtwo's ass to the point of impaling its chest and forcing Red to hide his partner out in that artificial energy prism and whatnot, for shit's sake.

Ohhh. I was only talking about volume 3, the part in the Viridian Gym.
 

VideoFan9864

Well-Known Member
One other reason I could think of is that pokemon special concentrates more on the people and not the pokemon. Red won probably because he knocked out Giovanni himself. I mean there are tons of instances where victory is given once the enemy trainer gets knocked out. Example
1. In the yellow saga, during the time red got frozen. True pika escaped but but happened to all his other pokemon that were supposedly knocked out on Mt. Moon? It was not shown that he returned them. Plus if he did then he wasn't smart enough to take them out of their pokeballs before he got completely frozen.
2. In the FRLG saga, after sird got a direct explosion and orm fell off the battleship, their pokemon (shucle, hopip, persian, and starmie) mysteriously disappeared.
3. After the dex holders got turned to stone, on that scene, pika, chuchu, and mewtwo mysteriously disappeared.
 

VideoFan9864

Well-Known Member
One other reason I could think of is that pokemon special concentrates more on the people and not the pokemon. Red won probably because he knocked out Giovanni himself. I mean there are tons of instances where victory is given once the enemy trainer gets knocked out. Example
1. In the yellow saga, during the time red got frozen. True pika escaped but but happened to all his other pokemon that were supposedly knocked out on Mt. Moon? It was not shown that he returned them. Plus if he did then he wasn't smart enough to take them out of their pokeballs before he got completely frozen.
2. In the FRLG saga, after sird got a direct explosion and orm fell off the battleship, their pokemon (shucle, hopip, persian, and starmie) mysteriously disappeared.
3. After the dex holders got turned to stone, on that scene, pika, chuchu, and mewtwo mysteriously disappeared.
 
Ohhh. I was only talking about volume 3, the part in the Viridian Gym.

I know, I was talking to Blitzblast about how he won the second time. Sorry if I didn't elaborate clearly enough. Still, with all his other Pokemon either fainted or unusable, there really was nothing else the creator would do for Red to grab a win, really. Type-on-type violations aren't the first thing in the Pokemon mangaverse to flout game logics entirely.

Edit: Also, someone delete that double post; whether it was intentional or not, it's still ugly.
 

Dreamingflower

Trying out new games
Well I kinda like it. Green's scyther could slash through Gastly. At least normal pokemon have a change against Gosht and that's the same as electric agains ground. But the writers kinda messed it up. When Red was battling against Green in the FRLG arc pika's attack didn't do anything against Rhydon. When Pika attacks that Nidoqeen his attack has effect that's kinda strange.
 

Ludi-Cola

Drink Responsibly
I think it's b/c Pikachus are mascot pokemon that writer(s) tend to give them big wins, even when it would go against game mechanics (vs a ground-type). This can be frustrating for more detail-driven fans but it happens in all media... sometimes they try to justify it "aim for the horn", a magnet/generator/combination move give is a temp power boost... other times they just let it slide. Altho I think these errors are less common now they will probly never stop completely.
It doesn't rly bother me but I am more interested in Special for the art and what chara interaction we have outside of battles (shipping hints, gag panels, flashbacks, bonding w/ pokemon etc). When I want a big epic fight that follows game logic 100% I play the game.
Dreamingflower has a good idea tho. A new ability or even a move that lets electric attacks damage ground would make for less "cheap" wins.
 

Lucario God 1

Master of Lucario
Lolz I've seen a lot of mishaps in the anime too. Pikachu always wins. He even has an item made purely for him and him getting volt tackle. Yet ash's pikachu learns volt tackle, when it's an egg move. I can't wait to see cynthia's garchomp vs Pikachu. They'll probably make pikachu learn ice shard or something rediculous like that. And lol yes, electric should have an ability to hit ground. Maybe ash controls a robot to do stuff, and he controls the universe and hacked to make pikachu KO ground types.
 

Competitive5910

Codename:ArseusEater
Lolz I've seen a lot of mishaps in the anime too. Pikachu always wins. He even has an item made purely for him and him getting volt tackle. Yet ash's pikachu learns volt tackle, when it's an egg move. I can't wait to see cynthia's garchomp vs Pikachu. They'll probably make pikachu learn ice shard or something rediculous like that. And lol yes, electric should have an ability to hit ground. Maybe ash controls a robot to do stuff, and he controls the universe and hacked to make pikachu KO ground types.

Everything is for the money. If you were a business corporation bent on gaining lots of Ben Franklin's, would you remain loyal to the storyline? No, because it also gets fans like these guys roused and interested in the comics. "Will they mess up?" "Whaa? I can't believe this!"

It's all for money... there is a reason Red beat Giovanni twice and it was because the writers want to feed their children at home and buy stuff
 

Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
I didn't ask WHY he beat him. I asked HOW, given that the attack used shouldn't have had any effect on Nidoqueen.
 

BlitzBlast

Busy with School
As I stated, Pikachu had supercharged its thunderbolt. What do you think it was doing in that pokeball?

The resulting explosion was probably what knocked Nidoqueen out.
 
As I stated, Pikachu had supercharged its thunderbolt. What do you think it was doing in that pokeball?

The resulting explosion was probably what knocked Nidoqueen out.
I believe thats what happened. If your still confused about it maybe you should reread the chapter of something.
 

Cyclone

^ where it all began
You have to take Pokemon Special with a grain of salt. It's a comic book and sometimes ignores physics laws as well as Pokemon laws (like Ground types can't get hurt by Electric). There's no explanation, it just is.
 

Skiks

MUCH RESPECT
Nidoqueen is a ground type and grounds electric attacks using the ground. But if you supercharge lighting even ground rods can be melted. Such was the case with Pika vs nidoqueen. Red invented a new move for pika but it took time to charge. The reason it did not melt Red's glove is because it was held inside pika until it was fully unleashed.
People seem to forget Red made this move so it would affect even ground types early on.
 
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JFate

Travelling Trainer
^Hrrmmm strong enough that it can melt lightning rods, well that's a better reason^^. But now I have the problem of Red's gloves. Insulated as they are, they shouldn't be able to hold Pika due to being I dunno, fingerless??
 
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