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Regional Variants/Alolan Forms Discussion Thread

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Sakuraba

Well-Known Member
Whether this is a good design or not is subjective, but it was at least more inspired than "put a wig on a Dugtrio."

I disagree with that. So far A-Dugtrio seems like a good design. It makes sense and performs the job of changing Dugtrio very well. Whether that design will be solid and consistent is yet to be determined. (Type, Stats, Movepool, etc.)

If people like it or not is, indeed, subjective. But being good just means it works for its intended purposes. (Change Dugtrio from it's original form. Be a humorous look. Etc.)
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I disagree with that. So far A-Dugtrio seems like a good design. It makes sense and performs the job of changing Dugtrio very well. Whether that design will be solid and consistent is yet to be determined. (Type, Stats, Movepool, etc.)

If people like it or not is, indeed, subjective. But being good just means it works for its intended purposes. (Change Dugtrio from it's original form. Be a humorous look. Etc.)

I mostly like because of the goofiness AND the clever inspiration behind the change. Same with Persian, cause I however, love Garfield, the old cartoons at least..
 

Fairy Queen

Lover of the Fairy type
My comments in bold.

I am not counting Alola Sandslash out, as I did make note of its incredible offensive potential, as you yourself mentioned. But outside of trick room, which it probably won't get, it won't have much of a niche in battle, especially on the defensive side.

I never said Alola Ninetails was Ice/Fire, I was comparing its ice version to its fire version, looking at both offensively and defensively. Fairy is one of the best defensive typings, you don't have to tell me that. But adding a defensively weak typing to that combo, severely brings down the defensive qualities of the Fairy type. Coming in weak to Stealth Rock, and being doubly weak to Steel (moves such as Bullet punch and Iron Head which are becoming more common), as well as fire, rock, and poison greatly diminish the defensive potential of Ice/Fairy Ninetails. It has some good resistances in the form of Bug (U-turn), Dark (Knock Off), and Ice (Ice Beam), I will give it that. It has good potential as a sweeper, so if they go that route it will def form itself a niche as the ultimate Dragon killer, but if they keep its stats roughly similar to its Fire counterpart, aka decently high speed, low special attack and decent bulk, it won't really make many waves. Not to mention as of now it has a bad ability. So right now, without looking at stats, I think its Fire type counterpart is superior, especially with Drought.

Weavile functions as a great sweeper because it has two great offensive types, Dark and Ice. Both are more frail types that flourish as a sweeper. That is why it is effective. Electric/Psychic, not so much. Both aren't exactly steller sweepers, though the electric typing is decent. The only moves that Weavile certainly has to fear are Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch, which aren't exactly common. A-Raichu has to fear Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak which are certainly more common. Not to mention Knock Off will destroy this thing. You are right in that it has potential as a sweeper and an added STAB is great, the psychic typing isn't a good typing to have tacked on.

As far as Raticate goes, I didn't mean A-Raticate had bad abilities, I said that its abilities didn't give it anything over its counterpart, who has the same ability in the form of hustle, and a better ability in the form of Guts. But I do agree that Dark/Normal is better than pure Normal, even if Fighting moves destroy it, because they destroyed before as well. Hopefully, though I'm kind of doubting it, it keeps its high speed stat.

I agree with you on the A-Marowak points. 3 immunities is grand, and while it comes with some bad weaknesses, crippling physical sweepers, a potential priority move itself (Shadow Sneak), access to Thick Club (hopefully), and immunity to burn will certainly help create a decent physical attacker (if it gets Flame Charge too it might have potential to outspeed as well). I was looking only at it defensively.
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
I guess GameFreak can't do anything new with older Pokémon these days because then it's supposedly "lazy"...

I can't reply what I want to reply to you because I'd be banned. But you know the sentiment.

I guess we can't dislike anything GF does without someone thinking we're hating just 'cuz.

Because you're either a fanboy or a hater. No inbetween. Whatsoever.
 

Legendary Dreams

Well-Known Member
Actually, I thought variants of a Pokemon is one the better ideas they had (think of it like the subspecies in Monster Hunter if you do play/have played). Changing the types of a Pokemon rather than just tweaking its base stats & abilities (along with capping its regular evolutionary line if it's not a 3-stage) seems like a much better way to me (yes the capping was one of my biggest grudges with Mega Evolution).

That's not to say it doesn't have its flaws - naming it Alolan is one to me - it feels extremely shortsighted that an Ice-Sandslash could not possibly exist in the regions of the future (come on, by now they can't be going "We might not be creating another region/game" as an excuse of any sort). Even if they renamed it in the future, its usage now strikes me as rather narrow, as opposed to Mega Evolution being a generic title any region of the future could utilize. I know they technically did it with the Amie, but at least the Amie was a function, rather than a (sub)species of a Pokemon.
 

lunis the ogre

Ogre of the gourd
Actually, I thought variants of a Pokemon is one the better ideas they had (think of it like the subspecies in Monster Hunter if you do play/have played). Changing the types of a Pokemon rather than just tweaking its base stats & abilities (along with capping its regular evolutionary line if it's not a 3-stage) seems like a much better way to me (yes the capping was one of my biggest grudges with Mega Evolution).

That's not to say it doesn't have its flaws - naming it Alolan is one to me - it feels extremely shortsighted that an Ice-Sandslash could not possibly exist in the regions of the future (come on, by now they can't be going "We might not be creating another region/game" as an excuse of any sort). Even if they renamed it in the future, its usage now strikes me as rather narrow, as opposed to Mega Evolution being a generic title any region of the future could utilize. I know they technically did it with the Amie, but at least the Amie was a function, rather than a (sub)species of a Pokemon.

I thought about this and it makes me wonder something. What if GF is making these alolan forms to only be found in sun and moon and no other future games? That way they can continue to boost sales of sun and moon a long time after they are released by making people in the future buy these games to get these certain pokemon and then transfer them up. Like they did in HG/SS with having pokemon walk with you in the overworld. This type of gimmick surely worked then. Hell, even I am guilty of getting both HG/SS long after the street date launch just because of that.
Granted the gimmicks aren't on the same level but the idea is possible. And no, this isn't an idea I want to happen but from a business standpoint I could see it.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
...Dugtrio to Dugtrio-A was a tad lazy.
By all means it's a hilarious design, but lacking inspiration and effort-required nonetheless.

It certainly is.
It's just.... unoriginal looking. They could have just made the species come out of the ground, we already know they have feet thanks to PMD.
I honestly think some other Kanto Pokemon deserved a forme far more. Making "crystal Onix" from the anime canon to the games via an Alolan forme would have been amazing! And I'd have loved a reason to use a Drowzee/Hypno, who are overshadowed by Alakazam when it comes to Kanto Psychics.
At least it can't possibly be another Dark type Alolan forme..... geez, the Alolan formes are actually interesting but it sucks how a few had to get the Dark type when we only have ONE new Dark type in Incineroar(As far as we know anyways, but at this rate I'm certain he's the only new unique Dark type we have). Rattata sure, the Dark type would suit him. But Meowth? It kinda looks like it ought to be part Ice at least instead of a pure Dark.
 

Azery

Well-Known Member
Ehh, Dugtrio has always been one of the 'joke pokemon'. Granted it's design is unoriginal looking despite the interesting origins, but it doesn't really matter to me. Hypno/Onix did need them though, they really did.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
I can't reply what I want to reply to you because I'd be banned. But you know the sentiment.

I guess we can't dislike anything GF does without someone thinking we're hating just 'cuz.

Because you're either a fanboy or a hater. No inbetween. Whatsoever.
Lol, I didn't even remotely imply that.

I can understand if you don't like Alola Forms because you prefer new Pokémon, but you shouldn't claim that GF is "lazy" for doing them (especially considering that an entire company can't be "lazy"). For awhile now I've seen people want re-typed Pokémon/regional variations of Pokémon, so if anything it seems like a fan request fulfilled.
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
Lol, I didn't even remotely imply that.

I can understand if you don't like Alola Forms because you prefer new Pokémon, but you shouldn't claim that GF is "lazy" for doing them (especially considering that an entire company can't be "lazy"). For awhile now I've seen people want re-typed Pokémon/regional variations of Pokémon, so if anything it seems like a fan request fulfilled.

Sure, sure. I want a Water/Ghost Salandit form in Gen 11. I hope I get one.
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
Sure, sure. I want a Water/Ghost Salandit form in Gen 11. I hope I get one.

This feels sarcastic. But I sincerely hope so. Regional variation is too good of an idea to kill after one generation, I hope it continues to be an important part of the series. In particular I want to see a sort of "non-regional variation" of Yungoos from where it was originally from before being introduced to Alola.

I also hope that if the Sinnoh remakes do occur, we get Sinnoh regional variations for Pokemon that were not originally in the Sinnoh Dex.
 

Azery

Well-Known Member
This feels sarcastic. But I sincerely hope so. Regional variation is too good of an idea to kill after one generation, I hope it continues to be an important part of the series. In particular I want to see a sort of "non-regional variation" of Yungoos from where it was originally from before being introduced to Alola.

I also hope that if the Sinnoh remakes do occur, we get Sinnoh regional variations for Pokemon that were not originally in the Sinnoh Dex.

Base the dex off of Platinum's then advance it further IMO. Add in some S/M Pokemon. Maybe give some megas/regional variants too. Make it feel fresh like HGSS did.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Oh I definitely hope for Sinnoh variants, that would be the only way I'd be interested in D/P remakes.

I do however hope that those Sinnoh Forms, if they come to exist will draw from more than just Gen 1.
 

Sheyenne Thunderstorm

Thunder Trainer
This feels sarcastic. But I sincerely hope so. Regional variation is too good of an idea to kill after one generation, I hope it continues to be an important part of the series. In particular I want to see a sort of "non-regional variation" of Yungoos from where it was originally from before being introduced to Alola.

I also hope that if the Sinnoh remakes do occur, we get Sinnoh regional variations for Pokemon that were not originally in the Sinnoh Dex.
It might be in Gen 7 and the remake. I don't believe in would be in Gen 8. I feel le there be no more new mega after gen 6
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
This feels sarcastic. But I sincerely hope so. Regional variation is too good of an idea to kill after one generation, I hope it continues to be an important part of the series. In particular I want to see a sort of "non-regional variation" of Yungoos from where it was originally from before being introduced to Alola.

I also hope that if the Sinnoh remakes do occur, we get Sinnoh regional variations for Pokemon that were not originally in the Sinnoh Dex.

I feel the same way about regional variation and megas. I was hoping they'd continue making Mega evolutions in Gen 7, however, it seems that isn't the case.

That's a great idea for Yungoos, kinda like Exeggutor for Alola, it'd be really cool and a nice nod to gen 7.

I think they'll do just that, I mean, Sinnoh basically had the building blocks for Alola forms, just look at Gastrodon/Shellos and Burmy/Wormadam. Burmy/Wormadam in particular. It'd be a nice way to expand the dex as well, I was disappointed that ORAS only got the evolutions introduced in Gen 4 added to the dex, so I hope they add some newer Pokemon to the Sinnoh dex and give some regional forms.

But alas, that's speculation for something that hasn't been announced, so it's off topic, best to get back to the Alolan forms themselves.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
I feel the same way about regional variation and megas. I was hoping they'd continue making Mega evolutions in Gen 7, however, it seems that isn't the case.

Personally I still think that they're gonna introduce new Megas in the D/P remakes. And I say that as somebody who doesn't like megas.
 
I spoke to a buddy of mine who is getting Moon about the Alolan forms, and for the most part he agreed with me on the list that the majority of us on the forum have been discussing. But then he brought up a valid point on Alolan Muk that we have overlooked.

Alolan Muk gains the Dark type on top of the Poison type, and while Dark turns the psychic weakness into an immunity, and adds a resistance to ghost, the Dark typing also removes the resistances to things that poison resisted such as Bug, Fighting, and Fairy. So Alolan Muk IMO is no longer the overall better of the two Muks. I see it more as Alolan Muk is better offensively, while Kanto Muk is better defensively. Sure, Earthquake is everywhere, but how often do you run into Psychic?

In fact, I run into a lot of Close Combat's, High Jump Kicks, Mach Punches, Bug Buzz's, Dazzling Gleams, and Moonblasts. I very rarely see Psychic or Psyshock anymore. In addition, without STAB, Muk can eat a Psychic and counter back. And on the off chance that Kanto Muk is facing an opposing Psychic type, it has Shadow Sneak in its arsenal.

Pure Poison is actually one of the better defensive typings, due to the rarity of psychic attacks, and a decent set of resistances from Bug, Fighting, Grass, Poison, and Fairy. Having only one weakness being Poison/Dark sounds nice on paper, but its not always that simple.

Basically, what I'm looking forward to with Alolan Muk is the dual STAB for offense. If Alolan Muk gets Sucker Punch or Knock Off, that will be the real difference maker IMO.
 

Sutittaja

Lightning zebra
I kinda like concept of Alolan Dugtrio and it's "hair", even it looks little silly. To use Pele's hair, which is volcanic glass fibres formed from streched molten basaltic glass from and that looks very similar to golden human hair, as inspiration for Pokemon game based on Hawaii and ground type Pokemon is kinda cool and interesting idea.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
I spoke to a buddy of mine who is getting Moon about the Alolan forms, and for the most part he agreed with me on the list that the majority of us on the forum have been discussing. But then he brought up a valid point on Alolan Muk that we have overlooked.

Alolan Muk gains the Dark type on top of the Poison type, and while Dark turns the psychic weakness into an immunity, and adds a resistance to ghost, the Dark typing also removes the resistances to things that poison resisted such as Bug, Fighting, and Fairy. So Alolan Muk IMO is no longer the overall better of the two Muks. I see it more as Alolan Muk is better offensively, while Kanto Muk is better defensively. Sure, Earthquake is everywhere, but how often do you run into Psychic?

In fact, I run into a lot of Close Combat's, High Jump Kicks, Mach Punches, Bug Buzz's, Dazzling Gleams, and Moonblasts. I very rarely see Psychic or Psyshock anymore. In addition, without STAB, Muk can eat a Psychic and counter back. And on the off chance that Kanto Muk is facing an opposing Psychic type, it has Shadow Sneak in its arsenal.

Pure Poison is actually one of the better defensive typings, due to the rarity of psychic attacks, and a decent set of resistances from Bug, Fighting, Grass, Poison, and Fairy. Having only one weakness being Poison/Dark sounds nice on paper, but its not always that simple.

Basically, what I'm looking forward to with Alolan Muk is the dual STAB for offense. If Alolan Muk gets Sucker Punch or Knock Off, that will be the real difference maker IMO.

It isn't weak to them, but it doesn't resist them either, it doesn't affect the type too greatly honestly, but Poison/Dark is naturally an amazing typing, it's the main reason Skuntank and Drapion are RU on the tier list, because if they were pure Poison they'd likely be NU or perhaps even PU because their stats are 'meh' and their movepools aren't much better. It has a nice immunity that cancels out the Psychic weakness, one actual weakness that can be negated by Air Balloon, and great STAB move access like Knock Off, Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Poison Jab, Gunk Shot, Sludge Bomb, etc...
 
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