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Regional Variants/Alolan Forms Discussion Thread

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Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
GF has been trying to save Dex space while still adding new designs since 6th gen, and the variants are the new way they found to do it.

Except we don't know that. It is one of the theories that people have come up with as to why there is less new pokemon, but by no means the only theory or the only probable theory. Just like we have no evidence at all that the Alolan forms have "taken away space" from new pokemon or megas (or that megas have "taken away space" from new pokemon)

Now I agree that some of the Alolan forms (Ninetales, Exeggutor, Marowak and Sandslash) are more distinct from their original forms and more creative than the Pokemon you named. But it's not like the advent of Megas and Alolan forms (or the smaller dexes) suddenly meant that there were no less inspired pokemon anymore.
 

Requiem Aeternam

Dance like an eggplant!
Come on, let's be real. Not every Pokemon is popular and not every Pokemon is a successful idea, we would all be happier if the popular Pokemon were given alt forms as opposed to more grubbish, vanillite, stunfisk and only one volcarona.

I'd rather not see Regional forms of popular Pokemon. Most of them already have Megas so they have no need for new forms. I'd much rather see overlooked and forgotten Pokemon get new forms instead. I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional popular Pokemon get a new form but I'd rather unpopular Pokemon get some love instead.
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
Well obviously people love certain Pokemon because of all those things you listed, and don't want them changed. But... Alolan forms aren't replacements. They're alternatives. I like regular Raichu a lot more than Alolan Raichu, but Alolan Raichu doesn't replace Raichu. Might it replace it competitively? Sure, I guess. But not any more so than another Electric/Psychic type with a completely different design could have.

If they released a regional variant of my absolute favorite Pokemon, Umbreon, and made it some Fighting/Normal with Levitate weird thing that I could never wrap my head around, I'd be disappointed that I didn't like the new design better but I wouldn't be upset. This new Umbreon has not removed my old Umbreon. It's still there. It hasn't been changed.

If regional variations were replacing old Pokemon, I'd absolutely agree with you. But they're not replacing, they're just new additions.

God, I don't know how else to explain this. Yes, alolan pokemon are essential different pokemon. Mechanically, they have different stats (presumably), and different typings. So they are going to be indeed new pokemon functionally. But WHY must them be a variation of old pokemon instead of simply being NEW pokemon? Only one reason: nostalgia. And I'm sick of it.

Why would they make a new Umbreon. Just make a new original pokemon that is Fighting/Normal with Levitate. You could literally turn any pokemon into something else. I can't allow that.
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
God, I don't know how else to explain this. Yes, alolan pokemon are essential different pokemon. Mechanically, they have different stats (presumably), and different typings. So they are going to be indeed new pokemon functionally. But WHY must them be a variation of old pokemon instead of simply being NEW pokemon? Only one reason: nostalgia. And I'm sick of it.

Why would they make a new Umbreon. Just make a new original pokemon that is Fighting/Normal with Levitate. You could literally turn any pokemon into something else. I can't allow that.

Fair enough, I understand why you see this as lazy. In a certain point of view, it is. But I also see this as very interesting way to bring Darwinian evolution into the Pokemon world, and a way to breathe life into old Pokemon that have fallen by the wayside due to power creep. While it might be seen as nostalgia to some, I do not think it a coincidence that they have chosen almost solely Pokemon that are unpopular competitively (the sole exception is Ninetales, which is used for Drought and nothing else) to receive these Alolan forms.

Also note: Everyone complained when Black/White released Roggenrola and Woobat to fill the space of Geodude and Zubat. Releasing a new Pokemon with a similar design to an old Pokemon, even if it is entirely new, is also met with complaints.
 

HydroBR

Well-Known Member
Except we don't know that. It is one of the theories that people have come up with as to why there is less new pokemon, but by no means the only theory or the only probable theory. Just like we have no evidence at all that the Alolan forms have "taken away space" from new pokemon or megas (or that megas have "taken away space" from new pokemon)

Now I agree that some of the Alolan forms (Ninetales, Exeggutor, Marowak and Sandslash) are more distinct from their original forms and more creative than the Pokemon you named. But it's not like the advent of Megas and Alolan forms (or the smaller dexes) suddenly meant that there were no less inspired pokemon anymore.

Well, I can't think of any other reason why they would make new generations so smaller, if not for Dex Space, both the National (so the franchise lives longer without getting way too confusing) and Regional (so the new games aren't filled with new Pokémons only, which was a pretty common complaint about B/W). But anyway, I do agree it's still a theory, albeit pretty strong IMO.

About your second point, I agree, absolutely. My point is: it's more honest to make an extremely similar Pokémon be a Regional Variant than making it an "original Pokémon", effectively taking a Dex space with an unoriginal (not good or bad) design.

God, I don't know how else to explain this. Yes, alolan pokemon are essential different pokemon. Mechanically, they have different stats (presumably), and different typings. So they are going to be indeed new pokemon functionally. But WHY must them be a variation of old pokemon instead of simply being NEW pokemon? Only one reason: nostalgia. And I'm sick of it.

Why would they make a new Umbreon. Just make a new original pokemon that is Fighting/Normal with Levitate. You could literally turn any pokemon into something else. I can't allow that.

In both my previous and in this reply I've talked why I believe it's not only nostalgia. Although that's a thing, specially on the 20th anniversary, but let's not forget those formes were given to some not-so-popular Pokémon, so nostalgia isn't the only point.
 
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willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
It's Kanto nostalgia, people. These are Gen1 pokemon. Anyone alive in 1999 remembers them even if they aren't the popular ones.

Also note: Everyone complained when Black/White released Roggenrola and Woobat to fill the space of Geodude and Zubat. Releasing a new Pokemon with a similar design to an old Pokemon, even if it is entirely new, is also met with complaints.

No, not everyone. See, you're replying to me, not to everyone. I didn't complain when gen5 came out. I would love to have gen5 all over again. Give me more zubat-clones, but at least make them new pokemon.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical optimist
I thought I made a good point on the last page...

what I like is that since they're making new pokemon with variants (oricorio, wormadam (not new new but newer than first few gens), meowstic, etc) they can also give the treatment to older pokemon, like they could have if they were new pokemon to begin with. No one has really complained about gastrodon having two forms or anything so if vulpix had come out with two forms in the beginning, people might have been more accepting as a whole. Just a thought though
 

DrakeKoryu

Active Member
We have have that since gen 1 with Nidoran, only that they have their own numbers and separated space on the pokédex, but it's the same pokémon, Nidoran, just that males and females are different, we have the same on Meowstick but they didn't get different entries on the pokédex, also Pyroar, but they are clearly different, even if is just the looks(Pyroar's case), we have it with Unfezant on gen 5, and other minor differences on another pokémon, but Shellos being different according to the place it was might have been the first real glimpse we got from this natural addaptation, Alolan Forms are presented as the way pokémon adapted to the new environment, and I personally think that this is really good, don't mind the fact that Vulpix, Sandshrew, Marowak, Raichu, Exeggutor now have two variants, these adds diversity to the games, and while it can be seen as taking the space of new pokémon, this obbiously give us new pokémon, they are different from they original states, and even learn different attacks, so we are indeed getting new pokémon, just with familiar names, we just have to enjoy the game :D.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
Well, I can't think of any other reason why they would make new generations so smaller, if not for Dex Space, both the National (so the franchise lives longer without getting way too confusing) and Regional (so the new games aren't filled with new Pokémons only, which was a pretty common complaint about B/W). But anyway, I do agree it's still a theory, albeit pretty strong IMO.

Somebody else raised the possibility that the increased work in creating and animating 3d models over making new sprites could be a possible reason, and I'm inclined to at least consider it.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
It's Kanto nostalgia, people. These are Gen1 pokemon. Anyone alive in 1999 remembers them even if they aren't the popular ones.
If Alola forms return in newer games then I doubt they'd be Kanto exclusive. The reason they're Kanto exclusive now seems to just be because of the 20th Anniversary.
 

Sheyenne Thunderstorm

Thunder Trainer
If Alola forms return in newer games then I doubt they'd be Kanto exclusive. The reason they're Kanto exclusive now seems to just be because of the 20th Anniversary.
I think whatever game freak does. They wouldn't please everyone.
 

Anthea

Well-Known Member
Nope

I like the idea of regional forms. But I'd rather take Trubbish over an alt form of Pikachu or Lucario or some bollox. In fact I'd rather take Trubbish over Pikachu and Lucario to begin with.

Actually what I like about Alola forms is how they are given to some Pokemon that are less popular or have become overshadowed in recent gens, like Ninetales and Exeggutor.

Also please don't presume to know what would make "everyone" happier. And every Pokemon is someones favorite. I do know of at least one person who LOVES Garbodor.

Lol you just proved me right

You prefer trubbish over pikachu or lucario. Several fans with this mindset would omit the Pokemon they don't prefer for alternate forms of the favoured mons. If garbodor didn't exist, then said fans would have a different favourite. It is simply more economical and beneficial to use a a lot of variants.

Please don't use slurs when you address me, the mods don't like that kind of behaviour.
 
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Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Well, I can't think of any other reason why they would make new generations so smaller, if not for Dex Space

3D modelling and animating is much harder and more time consuming than creating a 2D sprite. I like to think that this is at least part of the reason behind the smaller dexes. That also might be a contributing factor to regional forms; it's easier to tweak and re-skin a model than creating a new one from scratch.
I even have the theory that part of the reason Gen V was so huge because they knew it would be the last one before the switch to 3D and the last time they could introduce a large number of mons without bigger problems.
 

Anthea

Well-Known Member
I'd rather not see Regional forms of popular Pokemon. Most of them already have Megas so they have no need for new forms. I'd much rather see overlooked and forgotten Pokemon get new forms instead. I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional popular Pokemon get a new form but I'd rather unpopular Pokemon get some love instead.

Uhhhh there are several popular mons who don't have megas

Megas are equally shared between popular and less popular pokemon
 

Sakuraba

Well-Known Member
It's Kanto nostalgia, people. These are Gen1 pokemon. Anyone alive in 1999 remembers them even if they aren't the popular ones.



No, not everyone. See, you're replying to me, not to everyone. I didn't complain when gen5 came out. I would love to have gen5 all over again. Give me more zubat-clones, but at least make them new pokemon.

Yes. There's nostalgia involved. But there's also a really cool idea that makes this universe even more alive than it already is. Sure, I'd love to see new Pokémon, but Regional Variants are just as cool to see.

Well, good for you. I didn't either. But it happened.


Regardless.... I'm still confused on one thing: we know that Alola-Exeggcutor still evolves with a Leaf Stone. But then how do we evolve a regular Exeggcutor? Do we just don't? Is it just not available anymore? Are we forced to transfer it from X/Y/OR/AS?
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
Yes. There's nostalgia involved. But there's also a really cool idea that makes this universe even more alive than it already is. Sure, I'd love to see new Pokémon, but Regional Variants are just as cool to see.

Well, good for you. I didn't either. But it happened.


Regardless.... I'm still confused on one thing: we know that Alola-Exeggcutor still evolves with a Leaf Stone. But then how do we evolve a regular Exeggcutor? Do we just don't? Is it just not available anymore? Are we forced to transfer it from X/Y/OR/AS?

My guess is that Pokemon who lack Alola Forms, but evolve into Pokemon who have them (Pikachu, Exeggcute, Marowak) will have an unseen marker if they were caught in Alola. Those with the narker will evolve into their Alola Forms, while those without it will evolve into their regular Forms. Chances are this marker (or lac there of) will be able to be passed on via breeding, so a non-Alolan Pikachu or Raichu will breed a Pichu that eventually becomes a non-Alolan Raichu, provided they are the mother or non-Ditto parent.

So basically, I think it will follow the same rules as the Shellos/Gastrodon forms and different colored flowers for Flabebe.
 

Sakuraba

Well-Known Member
My guess is that Pokemon who lack Alola Forms, but evolve into Pokemon who have them (Pikachu, Exeggcute, Marowak) will have an unseen marker if they were caught in Alola. Those with the narker will evolve into their Alola Forms, while those without it will evolve into their regular Forms. Chances are this marker (or lac there of) will be able to be passed on via breeding, so a non-Alolan Pikachu or Raichu will breed a Pichu that eventually becomes a non-Alolan Raichu, provided they are the mother or non-Ditto parent.

So basically, I think it will follow the same rules as the Shellos/Gastrodon forms and different colored flowers for Flabebe.

I can buy that. Works for full Alolan lines too. Kinda sucks that we can't have regular Pokémons without transferring though.
 
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