Regional Variants/Alolan Forms Discussion Thread

[League]

We have literally seen Kanto Exeggcute, Cubone and Pikachu evolving into Alolan Exeggutor, Marowak and Raichu. It doesn't get much more conclusive.

Edit: Added links to the parts of trailers where they evolve.

But we literally have not 'literally' seen "Kanto" (whatever that means at this point) Exeggcute, Cubone, and Pikachu evolve into the Alolan forms of their evolutions. Each time there is a cut from the evolution sequence to a battle sequence featuring the Alolan form evolved pokemon--the inference that they are the same pokemon, however possibly reasonable, is still yet an inference.

If (as very conceivably may be the case) Alolan Exeggcute learns Dragon moves and elsewhere-originating Exeggcute learns Psychic moves, or even if they just have bifurcated evolution paths completely dependent upon origination, then functionally we have two different pokemon forms for Exeggcute as well, whether it maintains the same type and "form" or no.

Gen VII may even differentiate two new forms for Pikachu (and like Pokemon that received updated stats in Gen VI and that are anew to receive an "Alolan form"), as VC-RGY Pikachu may have different stats and a different learnset from both Gen VII Pikachu and Alolan Pikachu, and may evolve into a Raichu that has different stats but otherwise the same type and general form as Gen VII Raichu.

 

[clbgolden12]

But we literally have not 'literally' seen "Kanto" (whatever that means at this point) Exeggcute, Cubone, and Pikachu evolve into the Alolan forms of their evolutions. Each time there is a cut from the evolution sequence to a battle sequence featuring the Alolan form evolved pokemon--the inference that they are the same pokemon, however possibly reasonable, is still yet an inference.

Don't you think that's stretching it? A LOT?

I don't see why they'd hide the base forms anyways...

 

[League]

Don't you think that's stretching it? A LOT?

I don't see why they'd hide the base forms anyways...

For the sake of discussion, let's assume (and this is not my position, by the way, see below*) that Pikachu has a "true" Alolan form. Why would they hide it?

Well, one answer could be that it doesn't differ in typing or significantly enough in appearance from a lot of its elsewhere-originating counterparts, such that revealing it would seem to downturn the popular scope of just what "Alolan form"-a-tor-ing a pokemon will do to it--thus, Gamefreak would have favor the course of revealing the more fantastical changes. Besides its evolutionary potential (the current popular guess being that "Alolan[origin] Pikachu" and it alone evolves and evolves exclusively into "Alolan[form] Raichu"), the Alolan Pikachu could be more like Gen VI Pikachu than VC Pikachu (if the rumors that state so are true that VC pokemon will transfer to SuMoo with their Gen V typings and stats, as Pikachu saw its stats buffed in Gen VI).

Such a Pikachu it might make more sense to conceal than reveal. Why, after all, conceal Zygarde's secrets in the Gen VI games, such that no Gen VI game would reveal its true nature? Well, doing so let them reveal its secrets in the anime and capitalize on it just about everywhere else (TCG, Shuffle, etc.) as they view is propitious. There are still things that we don't know the full nature of, like Ash-Greninja, even as it's likely that Ash-Greninja was in the cards for a loooonnnggg time before it was revealed. If there has to be a common rule between reveals, then the best rule is, again, that of the "propitious": Gamefreak will reveal things as they think will stir interest, and will conceal things as that, revealed later, will maximize interest at that point.

(*Anyway, my actual position is that if "Alolan[origin] Pikachu" and it alone evolves and evolves exclusively into "Alolan[form] Raichu", then that itself is enough to give Pikachu an effective Alolan form, whether or not there is any sort of other difference between it and Gen VI Pikachu.)

 

[Disaster_Lord]

When it comes to Alolan Raichu Im hoping it has a massive drop in attack (similar to mega beedrill) and gives those points to other stats. This might allow it a specific niche.

Volt Tackle, don't ignore the highest nuke on electric terrain, Raichu has 90 attack, just 10 bst short of victini.

 

[clbgolden12]

For the sake of discussion, let's assume (and this is not my position, by the way, see below*) that Pikachu has a "true" Alolan form. Why would they hide it?

Well, one answer could be that it doesn't differ in typing or significantly enough in appearance from a lot of its elsewhere-originating counterparts, such that revealing it would seem to downturn the popular scope of just what "Alolan form"-a-tor-ing a pokemon will do to it--thus, Gamefreak would have favor the course of revealing the more fantastical changes. Besides its evolutionary potential (the current popular guess being that "Alolan[origin] Pikachu" and it alone evolves and evolves exclusively into "Alolan[form] Raichu"), the Alolan Pikachu could be more like Gen VI Pikachu than VC Pikachu (if the rumors that state so are true that VC pokemon will transfer to SuMoo with their Gen V typings and stats, as Pikachu saw its stats buffed in Gen VI).

Such a Pikachu it might make more sense to conceal than reveal. Why, after all, conceal Zygarde's secrets in the Gen VI games, such that no Gen VI game would reveal its true nature? Well, doing so let them reveal its secrets in the anime and capitalize on it just about everywhere else (TCG, Shuffle, etc.) as they view is propitious. There are still things that we don't know the full nature of, like Ash-Greninja, even as it's likely that Ash-Greninja was in the cards for a loooonnnggg time before it was revealed. If there has to be a common rule between reveals, then the best rule is, again, that of the "propitious": Gamefreak will reveal things as they think will stir interest, and will conceal things as that, revealed later, will maximize interest at that point.

(*Anyway, my actual position is that if "Alolan[origin] Pikachu" and it alone evolves and evolves exclusively into "Alolan[form] Raichu", then that itself is enough to give Pikachu an effective Alolan form, whether or not there is any sort of other difference between it and Gen VI Pikachu.)

Yeah but

If there really was an Alolan Raichu, why show that normal Pikachu evolving in the first place?

 

[Wryteous]

Very doubtful of an Alolan Pikachu. Being the mascot of the entire franchise, it's highly doubtful they'll ever give it a permanent new form with different typing. Obviously the next best thing to that it was giving Raichu a new form.
If anything it might recieve new "Costume" forms to promote the game. Similar to Cosplay Pikachu in ORAS, but they would only be for Sun and Moon and not transferable additions to the pokebank.

 

[yumenokage]

Yeah but

If there really was an Alolan Raichu, why show that normal Pikachu evolving in the first place?

*shrugs* save the hype for later? Since pikachu is the mascot and all, anything involving it is going to be a big deal. Also, announcing alola raichu without saying anything specific about pikachu already has a big hype effect, since of course everyone's going to speculate on what it could mean for pikachu, so maybe they wanted that. But yeah, it is quite possible that alola pikachu aren't noticeably different from regular ones.

 

[clbgolden12]

*shrugs* save the hype for later? Since pikachu is the mascot and all, anything involving it is going to be a big deal. Also, announcing alola raichu without saying anything specific about pikachu already has a big hype effect, since of course everyone's going to speculate on what it could mean for pikachu, so maybe they wanted that. But yeah, it is quite possible that alola pikachu aren't noticeably different from regular ones.

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain why they'd show an evolving Pikachu, highly insinuating that there isn't an Alolan Pikachu, but then it turns out there is. If there is an Alolan Pikachu, then why show normal Pikachu evolving in the first place?

 

[Akashin]

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain why they'd show an evolving Pikachu, highly insinuating that there isn't an Alolan Pikachu, but then it turns out there is. If there is an Alolan Pikachu, then why show normal Pikachu evolving in the first place?

We're also ignoring that, in Pikachu's case, we've seen that the Pikachu in the Pokedex is the normal one. Given that it's highly safe to say that the original forms of Alolan Pokemon do not exist in Alola, that pretty much settles the case on Pikachu.

 

[Beloberto]

We're also ignoring that, in Pikachu's case, we've seen that the Pikachu in the Pokedex is the normal one. Given that it's highly safe to say that the original forms of Alolan Pokemon do not exist in Alola, that pretty much settles the case on Pikachu.

AND this

 

[Erron Black]

Tbh agreed, there isn't much reason to put Fairy on to it. Meowth is based off of a Cat who brings fortune, so maybe that? Even then it's incredibly loose and frankly unnecessary IMO

How is it incredibly loose and unnecessary when it's a new form we've even yet to see? Hell, Persian could be Dark/Fighting or Dark/Water for all we know, it all depends on what they decide to do with it and how it developed differently in the Alola region.

I suggested Dark/Fairy because of the fact it changed due to the Royal Family of Alola breeding them, giving them a luxurious lifestyle full of pampering, which could in turn give it a part Fairy type, as the Alolan Persian may be more serene and pretty due to the lifestyle they lived.

I mean, if Alolan Raichu has no reasoning for being Electric/Psychic, then what's the issue with Persian being Dark/Fairy?

 

[Gizmoa]

We're also ignoring that, in Pikachu's case, we've seen that the Pikachu in the Pokedex is the normal one. Given that it's highly safe to say that the original forms of Alolan Pokemon do not exist in Alola, that pretty much settles the case on Pikachu.

Well, they could be functionally normal, but carry an alola marker that ensures they always evolve into the alola form... so that would just mean the normal and alola forms are indistinguishable, but they would still be different... unless there are some alola forms that come simply by being in alola during evolution, rather than it being a heritable factor.

A real world example would be the eastern tiger swallowtail which as a caterpillar always looks the same, but as an adult can emerge as the classic yellow form or as a black form.

wikipedia has a nice picture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papilio_glaucus

 

[Alexander18]

Alola Butterfree - Bug/Psychic with Compound Eyes. Wild Butterfree in Alola have adapted so that they destroy enemy bug pokemon like Beedrill with their minds.

 

[Lion Demon]

isnt the nekomata aka jeweled cat folklore, persians inspiration? They could add stuff to it and maybe change its design from a simple jeweled siamese to another more folksy cat

Good point, I never considered that. Personally, if Persian was to be hypothetically Dark/Fairy then the Bakeneko would be the better inspiration for its Fairy typing. Bakeneko is a Cat Yokai and the Yokai element can be associated with Persian's dark typing.

How is it incredibly loose and unnecessary when it's a new form we've even yet to see? Hell, Persian could be Dark/Fighting or Dark/Water for all we know, it all depends on what they decide to do with it and how it developed differently in the Alola region.

I suggested Dark/Fairy because of the fact it changed due to the Royal Family of Alola breeding them, giving them a luxurious lifestyle full of pampering, which could in turn give it a part Fairy type, as the Alolan Persian may be more serene and pretty due to the lifestyle they lived.

I mean, if Alolan Raichu has no reasoning for being Electric/Psychic, then what's the issue with Persian being Dark/Fairy?

Because there is a real world factor or counterpart factor when considering these Alola forms. Alolan Raichu has a very valid reason of being part Psychic. It's not only part Psychic as a tribute to surfing Puka Pikachu, but also, it adds to the counterpart Cat/Mouse relation between Raichu and Persian. Cats eat mice just like how the Dark type beats the Psychic type.

Plus, royalty is not an indicator as to whether a Pokemon should be considered a Fairy type. Sure, royalty existed during the Fairy Tale era but that's not an automatic indicator of the Fairy typing.

 

[Erron Black]

Good point, I never considered that. Personally, if Persian was to be hypothetically Dark/Fairy then the Bakeneko would be the better inspiration for its Fairy typing. Bakeneko is a Cat Yokai and the Yokai element can be associated with Persian's dark typing.

View attachment 15958



Because there is a real world factor or counterpart factor when considering these Alola forms. Alolan Raichu has a very valid reason of being part Psychic. It's not only part Psychic as a tribute to surfing Puka Pikachu, but also, it adds to the counterpart Cat/Mouse relation between Raichu and Persian. Cats eat mice just like how the Dark type beats the Psychic type.

Plus, royalty is not an indicator as to whether a Pokemon should be considered a Fairy type. Sure, royalty existed during the Fairy Tale era but that's not an automatic indicator of the Fairy typing.

You're missing my main point.

Raichu has no reason of adapting or changing type at all whatsoever, it literally just says 'well maybe they ate fluffy, round pancakes'. This isn't any 'real-world' counterpart thing I'm talking about. I'm talking about HOW they change form/typing based on their habitat/treatment in the Alola Region.

Going by that, Raichu has no valid reason of being Psychic type other than simply revamping it and not leaving it in the shadow of it's pre-evo for yet another generation.

I'm not saying that just because it was from the royal family = fairy typing. I'm saying due to it's luxurious lifestyle and the pampering that I'm sure the Meowth line received, could bring upon a Fairy type, as Persian would be more pretty, magical, etc... I seriously don't see how my reasoning doesn't make sense, especially in comparison to Raichu. Sure you've got the background and references, but who's to say that a carbuncle inspired Pokemon couldn't be Fairy type? Isn't Carbink based slightly or entirely on a carbuncle? Just look at it's name.

Also:

"It is described as a small creature, either a bird or a mammal, that has a gem in its forehead crystallized from the brain of a dead dragon. According to myth, it is good luck to catch a carbuncle."

I could see this leading to a Fairy type for the Pokemon, especially the gem from the brain of a dead dragon part. Which, could also lead for a part Dragon type, but due to Persian's design, not likely.

EDIT: May I also point out that there's nothing implying Persian and Raichu are related at all? The Dark typing and the Electric/Psychic typing are likely coincidental, as normally Persian is Normal and Raichu is Electric. That is a moot point in of itself.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Good point, I never considered that. Personally, if Persian was to be hypothetically Dark/Fairy then the Bakeneko would be the better inspiration for its Fairy typing. Bakeneko is a Cat Yokai and the Yokai element can be associated with Persian's dark typing.

View attachment 15958



Because there is a real world factor or counterpart factor when considering these Alola forms. Alolan Raichu has a very valid reason of being part Psychic. It's not only part Psychic as a tribute to surfing Puka Pikachu, but also, it adds to the counterpart Cat/Mouse relation between Raichu and Persian. Cats eat mice just like how the Dark type beats the Psychic type.

Plus, royalty is not an indicator as to whether a Pokemon should be considered a Fairy type. Sure, royalty existed during the Fairy Tale era but that's not an automatic indicator of the Fairy typing.

As I said a page back (in response to that same post from Anthea), Persian draws influence, not from the nekomata, but the carbuncle. The carbuncle is a creature that is described as appearing a number of ways, but the most well-known variant is mammalian, resembling either a canid of feline. However, the one constant across all depictions it it possessing a jewel that is embedded in its forehead. Also, a carbuncle can refer to a gemstone itself, often a small, red garnet (which is is what Persian's gem resembles). Catching one is said to bring great fortune, which ties into the theme started by Meowth and its maneki neko inspiration.

As for the Fairy typing, that actually fits a carbuncle perfectly. The carbuncle's jewel is said to be cut from the brain of a dead dragon. So, being a mystical creature that is also a dragon slayer, it is a perfect candidate for the Fairy-Typing.

Edit: Greninja'd, sort of, since this is reiterating and elaborating on a past post. So, I've been half-Greninja'd?

 

[Lion Demon]

You're missing my main point.

Raichu has no reason of adapting or changing type at all whatsoever, it literally just says 'well maybe they ate fluffy, round pancakes'. This isn't any 'real-world' counterpart thing I'm talking about. I'm talking about HOW they change form/typing based on their habitat/treatment in the Alola Region.

Going by that, Raichu has no valid reason of being Psychic type other than simply revamping it and not leaving it in the shadow of it's pre-evo for yet another generation.

I'm not saying that just because it was from the royal family = fairy typing. I'm saying due to it's luxurious lifestyle and the pampering that I'm sure the Meowth line received, could bring upon a Fairy type, as Persian would be more pretty, magical, etc... I seriously don't see how my reasoning doesn't make sense, especially in comparison to Raichu. Sure you've got the background and references, but who's to say that a carbuncle inspired Pokemon couldn't be Fairy type? Isn't Carbink based slightly or entirely on a carbuncle? Just look at it's name.

…You do realise that I was the one that said about the whole Cat/Mouse aspect with Alolan Raichu and Alolan Persian? You know what, let me repeat what I said (not what you said) for good measure.

"These Alola forms have a real world factor or counterpart factor when considering their typings. Alolan Raichu has a very valid reason of being part Psychic. It's not only part Psychic as a tribute to surfing Puka Pikachu, but also, it adds to the counterpart Cat/Mouse relation between Raichu and Persian. Cats eat mice just like how the Dark type beats the Psychic type."

You reasoning on Persian didn’t make sense initially because you didn’t elaborate on Persian’s hypothetical fairy typing the first time around. Had you said about the Carbuncle when you first presented your idea then I would have been more accepting of your prediction.

I initially said that Persian had no purpose of being part Fairy because I did not know about any Feline fairytale creatures that resemble Persian. But now that I am aware of Bakeneko the Cat Yokai and the Carbuncle, I can see a Dark/Fairy Persian happening.

On a separate note, Pikachu will not “over-shadow” Alolan Raichu. Sure, Pikachu will always be more popular because it’s the mascot of Pokemon, but honestly, “over-shadow” … why have you jumped to that conclusion?

Also:

"It is described as a small creature, either a bird or a mammal, that has a gem in its forehead crystallized from the brain of a dead dragon. According to myth, it is good luck to catch a carbuncle."

I could see this leading to a Fairy type for the Pokemon, especially the gem from the brain of a dead dragon part. Which, could also lead for a part Dragon type, but due to Persian's design, not likely.

Again, had you said this the first time around, I would have been more accepting of your hypothetical prediction. This is context, initially, all you said was “It'd make a load of sense, it being used to the luxurious pampering from the royal family and all!”. That sentence alone isn't strong reasoning for a Fairy typing.

 

[Erron Black]

…You do realise that I was the one that said about the whole Cat/Mouse aspect with Alolan Raichu and Alolan Persian? You know what, let me repeat what I said (not what you said) for good measure.

"These Alola forms have a real world factor or counterpart factor when considering their typings. Alolan Raichu has a very valid reason of being part Psychic. It's not only part Psychic as a tribute to surfing Puka Pikachu, but also, it adds to the counterpart Cat/Mouse relation between Raichu and Persian. Cats eat mice just like how the Dark type beats the Psychic type."

You reasoning on Persian didn’t make sense initially because you didn’t elaborate on Persian’s hypothetical fairy typing the first time around. Had you said about the Carbuncle when you first presented your idea then I would have been more accepting of your prediction.

I initially said that Persian had no purpose of being part Fairy because I did not know about any Feline fairytale creatures that resemble Persian. But now that I am aware of Bakeneko the Cat Yokai and the Carbuncle, I can see a Dark/Fairy Persian happening.

On a separate note, Pikachu will not “over-shadow” Alolan Raichu. Sure, Pikachu will always be more popular because it’s the mascot of Pokemon, but honestly, “over-shadow” … why have you jumped to that conclusion?



Again, had you said this the first time around, I would have been more accepting of your hypothetical prediction. This is context, initially, all you said was “It'd make a load of sense, it being used to the luxurious pampering from the royal family and all!”. That sentence alone isn't strong reasoning for a Fairy typing.

1) Yes I am aware of that, hence why I quoted you?

2) There was no need to elaborate on it much as it is quite obvious what Persian is based on(A Carbuncle) I was just 'enhancing' the fairy-like theme there.

3) Pikachu has always overshadowed Raichu, if it didn't get any sort of special treatment this gen, Pikachu would surely overshadow it, yet again.

4) While I agree it's not good enough reasoning, combined with Persian's background, it's reasoning enough to justify the typing.

 

[clbgolden12]

I posted this idea on another site, so I'm gonna post it here as well:

Pokémon: Gardevoir
Type: Ghost/Fairy
Ability: Stance Change (Hidden: Intimidate)
How did this Pokemon adapt to Alola?: When Alolan natives first started getting in contact to the outside world, they asked for certain Pokémon to be imported there. One of those Pokémon was Ralts.

As Dawn Stones weren't very common then, they were mostly evolved into Gardevoirs, who were treated very well by the natives. Because of this, they wanted to protect their owners there to the highest extent, and using their mystical powers, gave themselves things to help with this.

First, they got swords and shields and permanently linked them to their bodies. They then used their powers to grow large, angelic wings. However, these wings can't actually enable them to fly! Instead, they're used to try and strike fear into their opponent. If they need to "fly", they'll simply levitate themselves off the ground.

However, even after all of those changes, they still felt like there was something else they could do to defend their owners better, and they figured it out: Change their typing to Ghost. With this, they could have three immunities, which could protect them even better! For years they trained with many Ghost-types throughout the region, until they finally fully embraced the typing and lost their Psychic-type in return.

Because of all these changes, Alolan Gardevoirs are typically feared. It's said that their swords can slice a mountain in half, and their shield can block the impact of a meteor!

What do you think? I admit the how it adapted reason isn't the best, especially how it got the typing.

 

[yumenokage]

I posted this idea on another site, so I'm gonna post it here as well:

Pokémon: Gardevoir
Type: Ghost/Fairy
Ability: Stance Change (Hidden: Intimidate)
How did this Pokemon adapt to Alola?: When Alolan natives first started getting in contact to the outside world, they asked for certain Pokémon to be imported there. One of those Pokémon was Ralts.

As Dawn Stones weren't very common then, they were mostly evolved into Gardevoirs, who were treated very well by the natives. Because of this, they wanted to protect their owners there to the highest extent, and using their mystical powers, gave themselves things to help with this.

First, they got swords and shields and permanently linked them to their bodies. They then used their powers to grow large, angelic wings. However, these wings can't actually enable them to fly! Instead, they're used to try and strike fear into their opponent. If they need to "fly", they'll simply levitate themselves off the ground.

However, even after all of those changes, they still felt like there was something else they could do to defend their owners better, and they figured it out: Change their typing to Ghost. With this, they could have three immunities, which could protect them even better! For years they trained with many Ghost-types throughout the region, until they finally fully embraced the typing and lost their Psychic-type in return.

Because of all these changes, Alolan Gardevoirs are typically feared. It's said that their swords can slice a mountain in half, and their shield can block the impact of a meteor!

What do you think? I admit the how it adapted reason isn't the best, especially how it got the typing.

maybe instead an explanation with something catastrophic happening, and the gardevoir all dying to protect the humans/island/etc and remaining on even after, unable to let what they died for be destroyed/defiled?