Regional Variants/Alolan Forms Discussion Thread

[R_N]

But if the species adapted to Alola, why wouldn't the other members have adapted as well? Just like in real life, when animals start to adapt in a new environment, typically all of the members do, otherwise the species would die out there.

Alright let's consider Vulpix again.

Vulpix on that one island became ice type because it moved to the mountains where it was snowy.

If there were Vulpix available on other islands, why would this same thing happen on any of the other 3 islands? Especially Akala, with the volcano. No other island has a giant icy mountain, Vulpix could only have adapted to that island's specific environment.

 

[Inconspicuosaurus]

Since the Alola forms seem to be based on Darwin's theory of evolution... Wouldn't both the original and Alola form appearing naturally in Alola go against the whole concept? All of the originals would have either adapted or died out, the Pokemon who got Alola forms likely got them because they couldn't survive in Alola otherwise.

We already know both forms of Vulpix and Sandshrew can't appear naturally according to the descriptions.

Also, just a small correction. It's not Kanto that has enough Mega Evolutions. It's Hoenn. Hoenn has 20 Mega Evolutions while Kanto has 15.

The theory of evolution was developed after Darwin spent time studying finches in the Galapagos (among many other things). These finches were different on every island because of the different food sources and microclimates present there. These finches are represented in Alola by Oricorio, but other Pokemon could easily follow their trend of being different on different islands.

Vulpix and Sanshrew's descriptions imply they are the only versions in Alola, but we know nothing about the reasons why any other Pokemon may have had to adapt to the region or a specific island.

It kind of does? If the form only existed in certain parts of the region, then they could've just named them after the specific island they adapted to.

They're also called Regional Variants as well, like the entire region.

They are called Alola Forms. As far as I am aware, no official source has called them Regional Variants. But feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But anyway, there is Region in the Pokemon sense and region in the everyday English sense. An island can be the specified region, so it still wouldn't be conclusive.

I think people are ignoring the fact that old pokémon are not that spread out anymore. Times when you could fish Magikarp in 20 different routs are long gone, now even this little critter is only available in two or three routes. Most old pokémon that are part of Kalos national pokédex can only be found in one or two routes (and the latter are usually close routes). With nearly 900 monsters available as in S&M, you won't see the same old pokémon being available in two or three different islands, you can be sure of it.

Even though I would like to see something like a different kind of Zubat that only adapted in one specific island (and I agree with clbgolden it would make more sense to name it, say, Mele Mele Zubat instead of Alolan Zubat if it was an adaption exclusive to a single island out of all Zubat inhabited), GF is not pointing at that. From everything they showed us, the logical conclusion to draw so far is that a pokémon will either be available in his old form or in the Alolan, not both.

They seem to be trending that way, but we can't rule it out. Melee Melee Zubat Fighting/Flying type lolol.

But if the species adapted to Alola, why wouldn't the other members have adapted as well? Just like in real life, when animals start to adapt in a new environment, typically all of the members do, otherwise the species would die out there.

Again, Alola is an extremely diverse region with many isolated parts. Oricorio (not to mention the many, many real life examples) indicates that something can need to adapt to a new form on one island, while being perfectly fine on another.

 

[clbgolden12]

Alright let's consider Vulpix again.

Vulpix on that one island became ice type because it moved to the mountains where it was snowy.

If there were Vulpix available on other islands, why would this same thing happen on any of the other 3 islands? Especially Akala, with the volcano. No other island has a giant icy mountain, Vulpix could only have adapted to that island's specific environment.

Theoretically that could work, but if there was another Alolan Vulpix we probably would've known by now.

The theory of evolution was developed after Darwin spent time studying finches in the Galapagos (among many other things). These finches were different on every island because of the different food sources and microclimates present there. These finches are represented in Alola by Oricorio, but other Pokemon could easily follow their trend of being different on different islands.

Vulpix and Sanshrew's descriptions imply they are the only versions in Alola, but we know nothing about the reasons why any other Pokemon may have had to adapt to the region or a specific island.

They are called Alola Forms. As far as I am aware, no official source has called them Regional Variants. But feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But anyway, there is Region in the Pokemon sense and region in the everyday English sense. An island can be the specified region, so it still wouldn't be conclusive.

They seem to be trending that way, but we can't rule it out. Melee Melee Zubat Fighting/Flying type lolol.

Again, Alola is an extremely diverse region with many isolated parts. Oricorio (not to mention the many, many real life examples) indicates that something can need to adapt to a new form on one island, while being perfectly fine on another.

They were called Regional Variants in the August 12th trailer.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

But if the species adapted to Alola, why wouldn't the other members have adapted as well? Just like in real life, when animals start to adapt in a new environment, typically all of the members do, otherwise the species would die out there.

Because they are on a different island with different areas? You really think ice vulpix is gonna be anywhere without ice? I am NOT saying that this PROVES anything. But if we want to get all sciencey, then, yeah, you would have several kinds of animals adapting it different climates/biomes/niches. Look at Oricorio and Darwin's finches... Or the several kinds of squirrel, deers, wild dogs and cats, foxes, snakes and crocodiles, etc...

If there is a swamp on one island, and no where else, then if something adapted to live in a swamp it isn't going to have the SAME swamp variation in a non swamp place. I'm not even talking Pokémon just in general. Like, yes, I'd imagine that ice vulpixes that didn't adapt to the cold on that particular island would die out with no other alternative. But we also have animals like foxes and big cats that adapted to different areas. We don't only have snow leopards and then all the other big cats died out on the planet because they couldn't adapt to snow. They adapted to their area.

Alola has a lot of variety in its idlands. In real life hawaii, there isn't that much diversity. But Pokémon regions are often trying to mimic multiple biomes in one place. So we get desserts, and snow cities, and forests, and swamps, and beaches, and lakes, and valleys and mountains ...

Like yes we can apply real world logic but we also have to apply game logic. Which kind sometimes spits in the face of actual logic. Like Alolan Raichu and his pancakes.

Certainly doesn't prove or disprove alolan forms and regular forms appearing, but it's a circular argument. No one can win here cause no one is wrong or right at the same time. Pokémon is gonna mix real science, with video game science, with pure marketability and profit. So they loosely follow real world logic, but also their own video game canon, etc.

 

[Inconspicuosaurus]

Theoretically that could work, but if there was another Alolan Vulpix we probably would've known by now.


They were called Regional Variants in the August 12th trailer.

Not another Alolan Vulpix necessarily. It could be regular Vulpix. This whole argument started as a way to explain the possibility that some Pokemon could appear as their original forms and an Alolan form.

Also, I stand corrected. I see it now.

 

[clbgolden12]

Not another Alolan Vulpix necessarily. It could be regular Vulpix. This whole argument started as a way to explain the possibility that some Pokemon could appear as their original forms and an Alolan form.

Oh.

I suppose that could work, but it would still be weird. If that Vulpix only exists on that snowy place, why not just call it "Snowy place name Vulpix"? It's like if there were normal foxes living in the Arctic and Arctic foxes only lived on a certain mountain. Would the Arctic fox still be called an Arctic fox?

 

[R_N]

Theoretically that could work, but if there was another Alolan Vulpix we probably would've known by now.

That wasn't my point

You were saying if there were some that adapted, why were there others that didn't, right? A scenario like Vulpix is how. They could very easily have a native but otherwise normal Vulpix appear on any of the three other islands, while the Vulpix on that one specific island became ice types because it's the only one with an icy mountain.

I'm not even saying there's plain old Vulpix lurking on Akala, just that not every region variant has to be like Exeggutor. Each island has their own microclimate and environment that could influence a pokemon on one island but not another.
I mean we kinda see that with Oricorio, though that's less environment and more flower nectar

Oh.

I suppose that could work, but it would still be weird. If that Vulpix only exists on that snowy place, why not just call it "Snowy place name Vulpix"? It's like if there were normal foxes living in the Arctic and Arctic foxes only lived on a certain mountain. Would the Arctic fox still be called an Arctic fox?

While I'm sure there's in-universe reasons the real reason is probably marketing. If they plan to have pokemon in other regions get regional forms in the future, it makes more sense to put all of the Alola Forms under the Alolan banner instead of getting things like:

Alola Exeggutor
Mele Mele Raichu
Poni Vulpix (or whatever, Poni might be the canyon)
Sinnoh Graveler
Unova Magnezone

If there were 2 vulpix in Alola (and again I'm not saying there even is), calling the icy one Alola Vulpix still tells you everything you need to know. It's a vulpix only found in Alola.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

Again, I reiterate, they mix real world science, with video game science, with Pokémon Canon, with marketability. They aren't going to have four different names for Alolan variants. It's streamlined and faster to say "Alolan" for kids and everything. Its not necessarily the most "scientific" but it is the most "Pokémon" and "marketability".

But who knows what they will do? I certainly think it's possible in some areas to have both forms of some available on different islands, but doesn't mean they will do that.

 

[Luthor]

If there's one pokemon with branched evolution I could see getting an Alolan form it's Poliwrath. If only because if you need to change it's appearance it's easy to change to match other types. For example if you wanted to make it an ice type all you need to do would be swap the blue and white bits around.

 

[storm12]

Porting this over from the other thread where the topic of absinthe came up, which is known for its mild hallucinogenic properties and euphemistically called the 'Green Fairy' sometimes

Alolan Sableye, Poison/Fairy:

'Instead of eating ore which was scarce in Alola, it had to look for other sources of nutrition. A plant that grew nearby the caves Sableye is used to, secreted a translucent green sap that formed dangling crystal-like formations. Sableye was drawn to this substance and despite it being poisonous, it's digestive system that is used to dealing with solid minerals actually adapted to it. The green sap altered Sableye's behavior however and made it eratic and agile compared to regular Sableye . It appears to interact with a different world than what we see and instead of gemstones it has crystaline orbs for eyes. It also began to secrete a similar green substance from its claws which causes delirium in those who are unfortunate enough to be attacked by an Alolan Sableye.'

Tinted Lens/Unaware
HP: 40
Atk: 95
Def: 60
SpA: 30
SpD: 54
Spe: 101
BST: 380 (same as regular Sableye, but I expect some minor BST buffs to some Alolan forms)

 

[XXD17]

Oh.

I suppose that could work, but it would still be weird. If that Vulpix only exists on that snowy place, why not just call it "Snowy place name Vulpix"? It's like if there were normal foxes living in the Arctic and Arctic foxes only lived on a certain mountain. Would the Arctic fox still be called an Arctic fox?

Maybe because the snowy kind of vulpix is found ONLY in Alola so it's the Alolan subspecies while the others found everywhere else will be the nominate subspecies (the normal one). Just think about it like this....vulpix got brought to two islands from Kanto. One island has a giant snowy mountain on it while the other's environment is pretty much like Kanto. The vulpix on the snowy mountain island will adapt an become Alolan while the vulpix on the Kanto-like island basically stays the same. It can be lore based in regards to which 'mons are strictly Alolan forms in Alola...

As for your fox example, I don't think I understand. By normal foxes, I assume you mean red foxes right? A red fox and an arctic fox are different SPECIES. It would be like comparing a vulpix to a fennekin, not an Alolan vulpix to a regular vulpix.

 

[Inconspicuosaurus]

Oh.

I suppose that could work, but it would still be weird. If that Vulpix only exists on that snowy place, why not just call it "Snowy place name Vulpix"? It's like if there were normal foxes living in the Arctic and Arctic foxes only lived on a certain mountain. Would the Arctic fox still be called an Arctic fox?

That's hilarious because that is exactly the case. Red foxes live in many of the same places as Arctic foxes. Actually, with climate change allowing them to move further and further North, they are threatening the existence of the Arctic fox in some areas by competing for food. I can link you some articles if you like. And yet, the red fox it is still the European red, and the Arctic fox is still the Arctic because it is only found in the Arctic, whereas the red is found all over Europe.

 

[Erron Black]

Oh.

I suppose that could work, but it would still be weird. If that Vulpix only exists on that snowy place, why not just call it "Snowy place name Vulpix"? It's like if there were normal foxes living in the Arctic and Arctic foxes only lived on a certain mountain. Would the Arctic fox still be called an Arctic fox?

it really wouldn't be weird it would actually bring out the darwinism theme even more by actually showing you the differences in habitat/behavior/diet/etc...

like the finches for example, they all differed on each island, and not all of them adapted the same exact way or went to the same island. so if vulpix were to be pushed out of it's natural environment, not all of the vulpix would head to the mountains, there would surely be others that migrated elsewhere that hardly changed their anatomy or didn't at all.

it's really what GF decides to do, and I'll be a little upset if they didn't go all out with it and have normal counterparts available. of course not the counterparts to pokemon like raichu, exeggutor, and marowak as they evolve from the original form, but pokemon like meowth, sandshrew, and vulpix.

 

[Orphalesion]

Alright let's consider Vulpix again.

Vulpix on that one island became ice type because it moved to the mountains where it was snowy.

If there were Vulpix available on other islands, why would this same thing happen on any of the other 3 islands? Especially Akala, with the volcano. No other island has a giant icy mountain, Vulpix could only have adapted to that island's specific environment.

But there's no guaranty that Vulpix didn't simply go extinct on the other three islands. From it's description it seems Vulpix settled on the icy mountain to avoid competition from other pokemon fillings its niche. It's possible that, if Vulpix ever existed on the other three islands, which is not a given considering it was imported, it simply was not up to the task to outperform its competition and went extinct, also an important aspect of Darwinism.

 

[Luthor]

Another option for Poliwrath if they don't go for Ice/Fighting would be Electric/Fighting as they could make a particularly interesting lore about it adapting to stormy weather by becoming electric type. Either way it's an opportunity to focus more on physical attacks.

 

[Akashin]

But there's no guaranty that Vulpix didn't simply go extinct on the other three islands. From it's description it seems Vulpix settled on the icy mountain to avoid competition from other pokemon fillings its niche. It's possible that, if Vulpix ever existed on the other three islands, which is not a given considering it was imported, it simply was not up to the task to outperform its competition and went extinct, also an important aspect of Darwinism.

This. The description of Alolan Vulpix certainly seems to imply that all currently existing Vulpix have moved to the mountains and become Alolan, in the same way that all existing Cubone will evolve into Alolan Marowak because of all the Grass Pokemon.

 

[kemal07]

Waiting for the next Alola form to be revealed is so exciting!

Although I was thinking, should it really be the case for just Kanto Pokemon while ignoring the other regional Pokemon?

This is why I think new Megas will definitely be included to allow the other regional Pokemon to shine.

Another question , just to keep my excitement high haha, is it highly likely that Jynx may get an Alola form? Such a unique Pokemon that keeps getting ignored like a big regret... even though it's original typing is cool (npi)

 

[Erron Black]

Waiting for the next Alola form to be revealed is so exciting!

Although I was thinking, should it really be the case for just Kanto Pokemon while ignoring the other regional Pokemon?

This is why I think new Megas will definitely be included to allow the other regional Pokemon to shine.

Another question , just to keep my excitement high haha, is it highly likely that Jynx may get an Alola form? Such a unique Pokemon that keeps getting ignored like a big regret... even though it's original typing is cool (npi)

Right now it seems Alola forms may be Kanto exclusive, but whether that's fact or not is unknown, it just seems to be the case.

If Kanto exclusivity is the case, then new Megas better be in, because there are so many other Pokemon from previous gens that deserve something. Like Lumineon, Heatmor, Kecleon, or Klinklang. Though either way making Alola forms Kanto exclusive is still a waste IMO, the idea is so creative and should be expanded further. Certainly it can't be that only Pokemon from Kanto adapted differently there.

Right now Jynx has nothing against it getting an Alolan form. It's uncertain right now.

 

[Tuoko]

Another question , just to keep my excitement high haha, is it highly likely that Jynx may get an Alola form? Such a unique Pokemon that keeps getting ignored like a big regret... even though it's original typing is cool (npi)

Well, there's nothing against Jynx getting an Alola form. We just shouldn't expect it to have the form be the stereotypical Hawaiian dancer as it wouldn't be wise for them to do that.

 

[Erron Black]

Well, there's nothing against Jynx getting an Alola form. We just shouldn't expect it to have the form be the stereotypical Hawaiian dancer as it wouldn't be wise for them to do that.

There's no problem with them basing it off a Hawaiian dancer at all, though?