Religion - A Choice, or a Forced Requisition?

[ShinySandshrew]

We interrup the the topic of this thread to bring you an important announcement:

I was raised by atheists, and I'm an atheist. Was that a forced requisition? Of course not. I'm clever enough to deduct that it is impossible for a greater being to exist.

Ah, yes, there can't be a greater being somewhere in the universe because we have explored it all! And we know for certain that there is no supernatural!

Seriously, Natie, that statement that it impossible for there to be a greater being is ignoring some important facts. The agnostics are closer to being correct than you are.

No, you said you told him to stop judging religious people because of the actions of a few extremists, but then turn around and say all atheists act like jerks because you totally know these guys who are atheists and they're really mean.

I think what Dattebayo was getting at was this:

The interesting thing about the Antitheist brigade is that it cannot leave people alone about God, yet gets on their case for doing the same thing.

Thank you. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

I say that religion is definitely a choice. Sure, your parents may force you to go services or say your prayers before bed, but after you move out that compulsion is not there. I think most people will only stick with the religion they grew up with if seriously believe it. Or if there's something in it for them.

 

[natie]

Ah, yes, there can't be a greater being somewhere in the universe because we have explored it all! And we know for certain that there is no supernatural!

Seriously, Natie, that statement that it impossible for there to be a greater being is ignoring some important facts. The agnostics are closer to being correct than you are.

I never said I was entirely correct (although, looking back at my post, I might have unintentionally implied that). THere are theories of parallel worlds, which, to me, have enough 'evidence' to be right, but that still doesn't mean there can be a greater being. Without any form of evidence, I just cannot bear the taught of something more powerful than me. Simple as that. And we can't ever explore the entire universe because it is continually expanding, even not through use of wormholes.

Also, totally unrelated but I'll say it anyway, address me as natie (uncapitalised) or Nathan (capitalised). The way you (and some other people) put my username makes it sound like that's my real name. I know, I shouldn't care, but yeah, aesthetics, y'know

I think most people will only stick with the religion they grew up with if seriously believe it. Or if there's something in it for them.

That's a pretty good point, although that still means there is a bit of 'force' in the way the religion is 'applied' to the child.

 

[GhostAnime]

The agnostics are closer to being correct than you are.

How so?

Thank you. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

I'm not sure if that refers to this exact scenario.

I think most people will only stick with the religion they grew up with if seriously believe it. Or if there's something in it for them.

That's actually why most people stick..

 

[J.T.]

Ah, yes, there can't be a greater being somewhere in the universe because we have explored it all!

Even assuming we could explore every part of the universe and we didn't find anything resembling a God, because of the nature of the idea of God, you could move the goalposts infinitely. "Oh, he exists outside of the universe so you can't disprove him!" or something like that.

And we know for certain that there is no supernatural!

Do you know for sure there is? Because the burden of proof isn't on us to prove there isn't anything supernatural, but instead on you to prove there is.

I think what Dattebayo was getting at was this:

You really love that quote, don't you? Pity that very few people are actually like that. Of course, if you understood the point of that entire conversation I had with Datte, you would realize that, but meh, generalizations are easier than reality, right?

He was doing exactly what he criticized atheists for doing. You can't just pull that quote out everywhere you think it fits, especially if it really doesn't. He said that atheists are jerks because the atheists he knows of are jerks. Then when I ask him if he knows any atheists that didn't bash people, and he said he knew of one who stopped when he told him to stop generalizing about religious people because of the actions of a few vocal ones - in other words, he's being a hypocrite. Your quote has practically nothing to do with what he said, and it looks like you tossed it in there to try and make us look bad.

Thank you. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

I say that religion is definitely a choice. Sure, your parents may force you to go services or say your prayers before bed, but after you move out that compulsion is not there.

It's a choice with an absolutely huge amount of influence on who you're born to and where.

Or if there's something in it for them.

Doesn't pretty much every religion have "something in it for" its followers? That's how they keep their followers.

 

[deoxysdude94]

I feel it is forced. I HATE my religion right now, I'm catholic. There are so many things I DON'T believe in that are in this religion. Even if I were old enough to change my religion, I'm still forced to stay catholic because of my dad. He would literally kill me or never talk to me again if I changed religions.

 

[evolutionrex]

I also feel it is forced. My parents never cared about religion and i was not forced to do anything so i was never tricked into believing anything i didn't want to. I am an atheist.

I have several atheist friends who's parents are making them go to church. I've gotten int arguments with them before. I have nothing against religion but i have thing against people who force it on others.

 

[Zenotwapal]

I was raised by atheists, and I'm an atheist. Was that a forced requisition? Of course not. I'm clever enough to deduct that it is impossible for a greater being to exist. Surely, Darwin may not have been entirely right about all the things he said, but his main point will always stand: there is no higher being, only evolution. Which is only logical if you ask me.

But more ontopic again: most of my friends that were raised as Christians turned to atheism instead, because of common sense. Only one Muslim became an atheist (perhaps there are more to come?). Thus, I suppose the 'forced' aspect about this in a way relies on the kind of religion.

So, religion is mostly forced by the parents and the society the person is in, but can also be a choice of the person, if he/she can convince his/her parents that there is no reason to believe in 'God'.

Getting to the bold later after this:
i think that religion isn't forced, its a choice. It can be influenced or not, just like liking certain foods.

Now to the bold:
See, I have many problems in this statement. As a Christian, I beleive God exists. However, it seems to be that many agnostics and athiests seem to single out religion due to the fact they cannot see an actual God in the universe. This seems to be a bit silly for me. Why should you be able to see something that created everything? Shouldn't that thing hide itself, so that the naive (us) can't see it?
I find it silly to make such a huge assumption to call a higher authority non-existant, since we first haven't gone further than our solar system. Second, the fact that we constantly ignore the fact that a God could exist in many many forms (God could be a form or energy for all we know)
What I'm saying is to keep you mind open to new ideas. Both sides should.

 

[GaZsTiC]

Getting to the bold later after this:
i think that religion isn't forced, its a choice. It can be influenced or not, just like liking certain foods.

Now to the bold:
See, I have many problems in this statement. As a Christian, I beleive God exists. However, it seems to be that many agnostics and athiests seem to single out religion due to the fact they cannot see an actual God in the universe. This seems to be a bit silly for me. Why should you be able to see something that created everything? Shouldn't that thing hide itself, so that the naive (us) can't see it?
I find it silly to make such a huge assumption to call a higher authority non-existant, since we first haven't gone further than our solar system. Second, the fact that we constantly ignore the fact that a God could exist in many many forms (God could be a form or energy for all we know)
What I'm saying is to keep you mind open to new ideas. Both sides should.

Well, that's usually the 10 year old rebels and closed minded people. Most atheists - myself included - don't believe this way because God isn't visible, but that the idea of God/lack of evidence doesn't sound probable.

 

[GhostAnime]

Will people stop comparing food to freaking Religion? It's just not going to work. Nobody (in America) prosecutes you for eating onions. You also don't avoid hell by not eating onions. It's just not going to work. Food is considered a personal choice in society, while Religion is considered the source of morality and eternal happiness.

To put it simply, you are probably more likely to believe in God if everybody else did than to eat hot dogs if everybody else did.

Why should you be able to see something that created everything? Shouldn't that thing hide itself, so that the naive (us) can't see it?

Actually, why WOULD they hide themselves? Would you hide yourself from your children because they are too 'naive'? What are we naive about then?

constantly ignore the fact that a God could exist in many many forms (God could be a form or energy for all we know)

If it's just a form of energy, there's no reason to call it God.

 

[natie]

He would literally kill me or never talk to me again if I changed religions.

He wouldn't kill you, unless he is a lunatic. I wouldn't care if my Dad stopped talking to me just because I didn't want to be part of a religion I don't believe in, so just tell him you've decided to become an atheist and will stop going to church (if you do that) and all that nonsense.

i think that religion isn't forced, its a choice. It can be influenced or not, just like liking certain foods.

I've never heard of anyone being influenced to like/dislike certain foods.

What I'm saying is to keep you mind open to new ideas. Both sides should.

My mind is open to new ideas, that's why I'm an atheist. Once you're part of a certain religion/sect, your mind is set only to the fact that there is a God/divine creature/form of energy/whateveryouwanttocallit. The reason I want proof that there is a God/divine creature/form of energy/whateveryouwanttocallit, is because HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHING THAT ISN'T THERE? Seems a tad hypocrite to me. If I told you that, right now, there is a huge monster behind you, ready to eat you, but it can't be seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted (lolwut) in any way, would you believe me? Of course not. Same applies to your God. He can't be sensed in any way, so you can't possibly believe he exists.

 

[Zenotwapal]

My mind is open to new ideas, that's why I'm an atheist. Once you're part of a certain religion/sect, your mind is set only to the fact that there is a God/divine creature/form of energy/whateveryouwanttocallit. The reason I want proof that there is a God/divine creature/form of energy/whateveryouwanttocallit, is because HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHING THAT ISN'T THERE? Seems a tad hypocrite to me. If I told you that, right now, there is a huge monster behind you, ready to eat you, but it can't be seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted (lolwut) in any way, would you believe me? Of course not. Same applies to your God. He can't be sensed in any way, so you can't possibly believe he exists.

And yet, I still do?

Now your saying religion controls you, which is another really large assumption.
The "thing that isn't there" may not wanna show up because maybe, it is waiting for us to massively f*ck up or get things right, neither of which we have done yet.
To me, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Wh do we need to deem something false that none of us has had to chance to prove yet? This is exactly why we are naive. We know no better. We have proven that very well so far in mans current history. We murdered the Messiah, we've done numerous wars, we hurt and kill each other for pitiful reasons, and yet we seem to think we know it all? We haven't even gone past Pluto, and how dare you make the ridiculous assumtion that God cannot exist. Your not going to get any proof until you die.
There, see? I hate arguing with athiests because you keep pulling this "I haven't seen God, so therefore he doesn't exist" crap.

 

[GhostAnime]

The "thing that isn't there" may not wanna show up because maybe, it is waiting for us to massively f*ck up or get things right, neither of which we have done yet.

That monster doesn't want to show up until you're dead.

This kind of reasoning can infinitely be stretched forever and that's why it's really not good reasoning. You can just continue to move the goal posts.

Also, I would argue we've already massively screwed up.

Wh do we need to deem something false that none of us has had to chance to prove yet?

The problem comes when God isn't even a testable hypothesis so no, it can't really be proven because he exists in a way where nobody can verify the existence of one.

I hate arguing with athiests because you keep pulling this "I haven't seen God, so therefore he doesn't exist" crap.

Well you can't blame people for not believing in something that has never been seen. I mean, do you really give consideration to Peter Man existing? This is why I hate arguing with Peter Pan atheists because they keep pulling the "I haven't seen Peter Pan, so therefore he isn't there."

 

[Charoshi]

I believe religion is a choice. I don't believe that anyone should be able to force someone to do anything.

I am an atheist. I was born into a religious family. I was even baptized. Never stopped me from turning atheist.

Despite this, I am not one hundred percent anti religion. I don't believe in a higher entity, it seems to improbable to me. Do I believe there is something in our universe we have yet to discover? Oh heck yes! Do I believe a higher entity exists? No I don't.

I've only ever found one religion that I could ever really practice. If I was forced to practice religion, I sure wouldn't be a Catholic, like the rest of my family.

 

[Mandi.]

Now your saying religion controls you, which is another really large assumption.
The "thing that isn't there" may not wanna show up because maybe, it is waiting for us to massively f*ck up or get things right, neither of which we have done yet.
To me, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Wh do we need to deem something false that none of us has had to chance to prove yet? This is exactly why we are naive. We know no better. We have proven that very well so far in mans current history. We murdered the Messiah, we've done numerous wars, we hurt and kill each other for pitiful reasons, and yet we seem to think we know it all? We haven't even gone past Pluto, and how dare you make the ridiculous assumtion that God cannot exist. Your not going to get any proof until you die.
There, see? I hate arguing with athiests because you keep pulling this "I haven't seen God, so therefore he doesn't exist" crap.

You can believe in God, so that means I don't have to.

I was never a religious person, at all. Never. I wasn't always an atheist, I'd usually label myself as agnostic because I just didn't give a crap on what was true and whose religion was right.
After learning more and listening to Christians go on about the bible and what is wrong and right because God says so ..I was just like "why. Why would you let your own life be controlled by some guy that may not even exist."

I don't believe in God, because I personally find it to be a waste of time, to be blunt. You're never going to find out if you were right or wrong anyways. And I find the evidence and ideas so flawed. Not saying our's aren't as well.

I also don't because he's never done anything for me, helped me through anything I needed actual and serious help with, when I still did somewhat believe.
The thing that kills me the most is that God is suppose to love everyone he 'created'. Why doesn't he love homosexuals? He did create them, didn't he?
And even if homosexuality was a choice, humans chose, that he didn't give them himself (which the proof of homosexuality being natural is there so yeah.) I think it's pretty messed up that he throws them away and calls them sins. Those people are his 'creations' possibly. He gave them a mind and a right to choose. If he was smart, he would have just made them all the same, with the same views, same mind, same choices ..so nobody would be left out. Though that would suck really bad.

That is, if I did still believe in him, heh.

 

[Josiah]

The thing that kills me the most is that God is suppose to love everyone he 'created'. Why doesn't he love homosexuals? He did create them, didn't he?
And even if homosexuality was a choice, humans chose, that he didn't give them himself (which the proof of homosexuality being natural is there so yeah.) I think it's pretty messed up that he throws them away and calls them sins. Those people are his 'creations' possibly. He gave them a mind and a right to choose. If he was smart, he would have just made them all the same, with the same views, same mind, same choices ..so nobody would be left out. Though that would suck really bad.

That is, if I did still believe in him, heh.

Whether or not God exists, he didn't write the Bible. People did. They wrote their biases into the book along with everything else. So whether or not God exists, we don't know what He truly thinks of anything.

 

[natie]

I hate arguing with athiests because you keep pulling this "I haven't seen God, so therefore he doesn't exist" crap.

I hate arguing with religious people because you keep pulling this "I haven't seen God, but he exists" crap.

 

[Zenotwapal]

The interesting thing about the Antitheist brigade is that it cannot leave people alone about God, yet gets on their case for doing the same thing.

There you go, natie, there you go.

 

[GhostAnime]

Quote this:

"People who throw kochoupink's quote around every time they can't respond to an Atheist's argument are lazy."

 

[J.T.]

ahahaha i can use an overused old quote that has nothing to do with what natie said to make atheists look bad.

It's especially stupid to whine "WHY WON'T YOU LEAVE ME ALONE ABOUT MY RELIGION" considering we're in a debate thread about religion.

 

[7 tyranitars]

zenotwapal find your own statement instead of something overused

and as J T said this debate is about religion so don't cry